Guild Wars 2

I did the calculation, if ferocity truly is 15 points per 1% critical damage.

Then that means my roaming build goes from 80% crit damage to 53% crit damage. Which honestly seems like more than a 10% damage nerf, and I’m not even a berserker build.

Discuss.

Haven’t done the math, but probably from 41% to around 20%
It’s not going to be that bad against other direct damage builds, because they will obviously deal less damage aswell, but against bunkers and condis? that’s gonna be fun…

Did some quick math, so not 100% accurate but going to drop from 70% to around 48%. Which indeed will cut my burst by a lot of damage. Full zerker is actually the power set that is getting hit the least.

Trinkets + traits + shoulder/gloves/boots in zerker are getting hit the hardest, especially trinkets.

In other words, the semi tanky dmg builds will get the biggest damage cut making them 100% nonviable for PvE or dungeons, making full zerker pretty much mandatory there now.

Zerker will be mandatory but its going to be interesting to see how much better it will be compared to a hybird power/condition spec like rampager/carion. Obvoiulsy more than 1 warrior with this build is a drop in party dps.

Sword/sword Power/condi spec could give alot of power builds a run for thier money.

If I did the math right the max critical damage bonus we will be able to get from trinkets is 25%, down from 44%. So instead of having 194% crit damage (excluding any other sources) it’ll drop to 175% from trinkets and accessories. From the trinkets change mine will drop from 64% to 45%* bonus, assuming ferocity in the Discipline line still scales like the other lines do.

MiLkZz.4789:

In other words, the semi tanky dmg builds will get the biggest damage cut making them 100% nonviable for PvE or dungeons, making full zerker pretty much mandatory there now.

This is incorrect they are reducing the critical damage not critical chances. tanky build never use furry stats making this change none effective.

The only class that is going to be using the furry stats is zerker wich mean they are the only 1 getting hit with a nerf, in other words this is going to be opening window for other class type to be invited to the group

according to anet the zerk build is receiving a 10% damage nerf which means having 5 group of zerker after the patch will be doing 50% less damage , so means that if you want more damage inviting 1 or 2 condition build to the group is far better then having all zerker

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

Murderous Clown.9723:

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

first of all you run dungeon with 5 not 10,

secondly the purpose of nerfing zerker is to keep them in part with other build like condition.

Condition build is infamous for 2 reason
1) condition build deals less damage then a berserker build
2) doesn’t play well with other condition builds

After patch zerker build is receiving a 10% nerf on there damage so says anet, mean while anet is going allow the use of stacking effect sigil , meaning now a condition build can stack 250 power and 250 condition damage and having sigil that effect on hit not on crit.

So plain and simple condition are getting a buff when zerker are getting a nerf,

Drakent.9605:

MiLkZz.4789:

In other words, the semi tanky dmg builds will get the biggest damage cut making them 100% nonviable for PvE or dungeons, making full zerker pretty much mandatory there now.

This is incorrect they are reducing the critical damage not critical chances. tanky build never use furry stats making this change none effective.

The only class that is going to be using the furry stats is zerker wich mean they are the only 1 getting hit with a nerf, in other words this is going to be opening window for other class type to be invited to the group

according to anet the zerk build is receiving a 10% damage nerf which means having 5 group of zerker after the patch will be doing 50% less damage , so means that if you want more damage inviting 1 or 2 condition build to the group is far better then having all zerker

You are wrong. If it is indeed a 10% damage nerf like they said, it is still a 10% damage nerf to the party assume everyone is using zerker gear.

If each person instead of 10K, they do 9K damage, that is a total of 50K, and 45K with the 10% damage nerf. 5K/50K = 0.1 = 10%.

But it seems like with the ferocity changes it will be more then that. I don’t see how most builds dropping like 25% crit chance can be considered a 10% DPS nerf. Although I haven’t done the math on that, I would like to see how ANet came to that conclusion or whether that is just an arbitrary number.

Drakent.9605:

Murderous Clown.9723:

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

first of all you run dungeon with 5 not 10,

secondly the purpose of nerfing zerker is to keep them in part with other build like condition.

Condition build is infamous for 2 reason
1) condition build deals less damage then a berserker build
2) doesn’t play well with other condition builds

After patch zerker build is receiving a 10% nerf on there damage so says anet, mean while anet is going allow the use of stacking effect sigil , meaning now a condition build can stack 250 power and 250 condition damage and having sigil that effect on hit not on crit.

So plain and simple condition are getting a buff when zerker are getting a nerf,

And ANet clearly said stat stacking sigils do not stack.

killahmayne.9518:

Drakent.9605:

Murderous Clown.9723:

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

first of all you run dungeon with 5 not 10,

secondly the purpose of nerfing zerker is to keep them in part with other build like condition.

Condition build is infamous for 2 reason
1) condition build deals less damage then a berserker build
2) doesn’t play well with other condition builds

After patch zerker build is receiving a 10% nerf on there damage so says anet, mean while anet is going allow the use of stacking effect sigil , meaning now a condition build can stack 250 power and 250 condition damage and having sigil that effect on hit not on crit.

So plain and simple condition are getting a buff when zerker are getting a nerf,

And ANet clearly said stat stacking sigils do not stack.

Dude you need to read your updates b/c you are so far behind

killahmayne.9518@
let me help so you don’t stay lost on the upcoming changes

One of the main goals for balance in Guild Wars 2 is to support a wide variety of builds that cater to different play styles. The current implementation of critical damage works against this. Put simply, if critical damage-stacked builds are more effective than other approaches, the build diversity decreases. As we work to increase support and teamwork between players throughout the game, we examined how we could change critical damage to retain it as a fun and viable approach to build-making while also allowing other builds to shine.

The formula we’re using to convert ferocity into critical damage will reduce the current maximum obtainable values. At level 80, it will take 15 points of ferocity to gain 1% bonus critical damage, which means that there will about a 10% decrease in overall damage for a full “berserker” build.

Drakent.9605:

Murderous Clown.9723:

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

first of all you run dungeon with 5 not 10,

secondly the purpose of nerfing zerker is to keep them in part with other build like condition.

Condition build is infamous for 2 reason
1) condition build deals less damage then a berserker build
2) doesn’t play well with other condition builds

After patch zerker build is receiving a 10% nerf on there damage so says anet, mean while anet is going allow the use of stacking effect sigil , meaning now a condition build can stack 250 power and 250 condition damage and having sigil that effect on hit not on crit.

So plain and simple condition are getting a buff when zerker are getting a nerf,

You claimed that a 10% nerf to 1 character would mean a 50% for a group of 5. I am addressing this claim and only this claim.

Please just answer me one question. How much damage will a group of 10 zerkers after this patch? I know dungeons are only for groups of 5, but if your logic is sound it should work for all group sizes.

@Murderous Clown.9723:

I am not claiming nothing I stated the fact base on what anet is saying, It is simple logic that if 1 build is doing 10% less damage then before, each player is going to be doing 10% less damage running that same build

And I could care less how much less damage of 10 zerker group are doing after the patch if that concerns you then you do the # yourself

All I know is after the patch running 5 zerker dungeon isn’t going to be a speed run any more, if player wants to fully do the best damage possible having 2condition build plus 3 zerker is far better then 5 zerker

I know the answer to my question. The purpose of it is help you understand things better. Please just try.

Percentages scale with numbers. 10% will ALWAYS be 10%, no matter how many people you throw into the fray.

A group of 5 zerkers will be hit just as hard as a group of 100 zerkers. Their overall DPS will be dropped by 10%.

What ANet have done is tip the scales a bit, and made Condition builds more viable. Zerkers are still dishing out 10% less damage, but just so Condition builds can compete. Running a group of 5 Zerkers is still just as viable as ever, only it isn’t going to hurt your group DPS nearly as bad if 1 or 2 (or all) of the players are also running condition.

Murderous Clown.9723:

I know the answer to my question. The purpose of it is help you understand things better. Please just try.

i dont have 2 since you are the 1 having a hard time trying to understand the entire purpose of the topic

Keep in mind that they said 10% overall DPS, so unless you are running a 100% Crit chance build, generally I think that it will still apply that the overall DPS is going to come down by 10% ish. So if you hit for 2k, 2,000 * 1.75 = 3500, whereas before the system change 2,000 * 1.94 = 3,880. That’s a difference of 380 damage, so 380/3,880 = 9.7%.

I think between the sigil and rune changes it’ll be more about refining your gear overall rather than trying to max certain keen stats, at least I hope it feels that way when we start building. That preview of the Eagle rune we got to see increased all raw damage by 6% vs. foes under 50% health which I think would be pretty sweet for bleeding edge DPSers.

@Drakent

lets take a nice round number of 20k.
100% -10%=90%. or 1-0.1=0.9
20kx0.9=18k

player1 does 18k/20k=0.9
player2 does 18k/20k=0.9
player3 does 18k/20k=0.9
player4 does 18k/20k=0.9
player5 does 18k/20k=0.9
total for the group is 90k/100k=0.9
It’s 90% or 100%-10% of potential damage

you can also count it this way

10% of 20k=2k or 0.1×20k=2k or 2k/20k=0.1 or 10%

player1 2k/20k=0.1
player2 2k/20k=0.1
player3 2k/20k=0.1
player4 2k/20k=0.1
player5 20k/100k=0.1

The total difference in damage is 10% not matter how many people are in the party.

The real question is if zerker is getting a 10% total damage nerf and Anet is normalizing or equalizing the crit% across all gear. How much will ferocity affect builds that use a combination of gear like soldiers or knights armor and zerk trinkets when at the moment zerk trinkets have a higher % of crit damage. What about Assassin builds which have a higher percentage of their damage coming from crits due to high precision? I get the feeling that zerks are getting off easy at 10% where as mix gear setups and Assassins gear builds are going to be hit quite a bit harder.

I just had to post to laugh at the guy that thinks 10% damage reduction to one warrior means 100% damage reduction if there are 10 warriors. I also want to laugh at the guy in the other thread who admitted that 10% attack speed would add on average 10% more auto-attack damage, but still claimed that most of the time it would be less and only sometimes 10%.

Why do these people even bother? Just admit you have no math skills and keep to stuff you actually understand.

Drakent.9605:

killahmayne.9518:

Drakent.9605:

Murderous Clown.9723:

By that logic a group of 10 zerkers would do no damage whatsoever.

first of all you run dungeon with 5 not 10,

secondly the purpose of nerfing zerker is to keep them in part with other build like condition.

Condition build is infamous for 2 reason
1) condition build deals less damage then a berserker build
2) doesn’t play well with other condition builds

After patch zerker build is receiving a 10% nerf on there damage so says anet, mean while anet is going allow the use of stacking effect sigil , meaning now a condition build can stack 250 power and 250 condition damage and having sigil that effect on hit not on crit.

So plain and simple condition are getting a buff when zerker are getting a nerf,

And ANet clearly said stat stacking sigils do not stack.

Dude you need to read your updates b/c you are so far behind

Did you actually watch and listen to everything that was said on Ready Up Episode 8? If so, then you would know that they clearly said that you couldn’t stack bloodlust and corruption sigils, meaning you couldn’t have 250 power and 250 condition damage.

And why even bother posting about ferocity, when it is clear from my previous post that I know about the ferocity changes.

10% DPS loss per person doesn’t mean a 50% DPS loss for the party. I think everybody in this thread has tried to explain this to you but you refuse to listen. According to your logic the more people you have in a party the more % DPS loss you have, so 10 people in a party would mean a 100% DPS loss?

10% is 10% to matter how you look at it. Each person in a party losing 10% DPS means that is a 10% DPS loss to the party.

If one person in the party lost 10% DPS, and the other 4 people stayed the same, that doesn’t mean the whole party lost 10% DPS. Provided everything is constant, the party lost only about 2% DPS because 10% DPS / 5 people = 2%.

So for example:

Say every body in the part did a 10K hit, that equals 50K damage in total. Then say one person lost 10% DPS. That would mean that one person dealt 9K damage. So the whole party DPS = 49K. and going from 50K to 49K equates to a 2% DPS loss. I honestly can’t explain it simpler then that.

With that said, you are already claiming that having 2 condition builds and 3 zerker builds will be better then having 5 zerker builds. Where is your proof? Wait, I actually don’t want any proof coming from you based upon the math you have tried to apply in this thread. For all we know, 5 zerker builds could still be better. 10% seems like a very arbitrary number, and seems like ferocity changes would hit full zerker classes different depending on the class they play.

Now here’s some pretty exact maths on a mediocre berserk warrior like mine:
I’ve got

• lvl80 exo Berserk Armor + Greatsword
• ascended celestial Trinkets (except for Backpiece which is lvl80 exo celestial)
• Superior Runes of the Eagle in all of my armor pieces

Skilled 30/30/0/10/0, battling usually under the influence of at least 5 stacks of Might and of course Fury, I get to 2111 Power and 2271 Precision for a Crit Chance of 89%.
Right now my Crit Damage boost is 63%, making a total of 213% Crit Damage.

If I convert my Crit Damage boost into Ferocity now, keeping in mind that the celestial Trinkets get a 6% boost to their stats and taking the values of the Eagle Runes that are given in the screenshot of the official website, I’ll end up with 692 Ferocity, which will give me (rounded down) 46% Crit Damage boost, making 196% Crit Damage in total.

And now, my Warrior also gets some minor buffs as well: The Superior Rune of the Eagle get’s a little buffed on Precision and +Damage.
The Celestial Trinkets get a buff which will end up in +14 Power and Precision for me. The extra Precision actually gives me +1% Crit Chance. My Power will be 2125 then. The new Eagle Rune will give me +6% damage to enemies with less than 50% of their health after the patch (right now it gives me only +5%). To make it more simple, let’s just assume an enemy has 50% of the time less than 50% of it’s health. So the average additional damage boost after the patch will be 0,5%.

And if you put all these numbers into one formula, to see how much my actual damage output has decreased, it looks something like this:
((2125*0,1)+(2125*1,96*0,9))*1,005
(2111*0,11)+(2111*2,13*0,89)

= 0,94 = 94%

So, if there are no mistakes in my calculation, my DPS will effectively be decreased by 6%.

Of course this is not very nice, but it’s not the end of the world either. 6% DPS loss for a build that is pretty bersy (or at least I think that it is). Acceptable. To sum it up, I don’t think the changes will hit you as hard as some are anticipating here.

But, of course, be careful! 6% may sound harmless at first, but if you run around in a group of 15 people, your damage will be decreased by 15 * 6% = 90%!!! /lol

Is it just me or does it seem stupid that Anet in their quest to even out the playing field for all other builds and armor sets lowered zerker by 10%?

Arent there other things they could have done? Dungeon zerkers will still be zerkers and will still hit harder than the other sets.

Nandor The Stampede.1593:

Is it just me or does it seem stupid that Anet in their quest to even out the playing field for all other builds and armor sets lowered zerker by 10%?

Arent there other things they could have done? Dungeon zerkers will still be zerkers and will still hit harder than the other sets.

The goal isn’t to push people to not use berserker gear anymore. The goal is to make other gear worth using if someone wants to use it. That is all.

15 ferocity = 1% crit dmg

So if we look at ascended zerker trinkets, they lose around 2% crit dmg each. So on full zerker trinkets you will alone lose 12% crit damage. This continuous on the shoulder/gloves/ boots zerker combo on which you’ll lose another 2% crit dmg (roughly). Now this goes on into your trait line, discipline line will now give max 20% crit dmg instead of 30%.

If we go and look at the semi tanky warrior build, gloves/boots/shoulders zerker and full zerker trinkets to maximize dmg and tankyness, you’ll see that he will get hit the most. His dmg loss will be bigger than 10%.

AKA you can’t run semi tanky warrior in dungeons anymore, full zerker will me mandatory more than ever. Completely missing anets original intent.

MiLkZz.4789:

15 ferocity = 1% crit dmg

So if we look at ascended zerker trinkets, they lose around 2% crit dmg each. So on full zerker trinkets you will alone lose 12% crit damage. This continuous on the shoulder/gloves/ boots zerker combo on which you’ll lose another 2% crit dmg (roughly). Now this goes on into your trait line, discipline line will now give max 20% crit dmg instead of 30%.

If we go and look at the semi tanky warrior build, gloves/boots/shoulders zerker and full zerker trinkets to maximize dmg and tankyness, you’ll see that he will get hit the most. His dmg loss will be bigger than 10%.

AKA you can’t run semi tanky warrior in dungeons anymore, full zerker will me mandatory more than ever. Completely missing anets original intent.

The only way to make it work is if ferocity has diminishing returns

I.E. The more of it you get, the less of the effect becomes added in efficiency per point. (No, this doesn’t mean having more Ferocity would result in lower Crit damage than having less Ferocity. Just that PER POINT after an X amount wouldn’t offer as much).

Right the way its going to be is some gear will give more crit damage than other gear. You only wan’t to use the pieces that give the most ferocity. And not use the pieces that give the least. That way you can minimize the loss of other stats.

So if a pair of gloves only gives 20 Ferocity now. And lets say a Ring gives 105. It makes no since to wear those gloves. Yes use the rings but for the gloves use something else.

The way I am reading into this is previously. People liked to do somthing like

Knights Helm
Zerker shoulders.
Knights Chest
Zerker gloves.
Knights Pants
Zerker boots.

Now its the opposite.

You may want to do.

Knights Helm
Knights sholders.
Zerker Chest.
Knights gloves.
Zerker Pants.
Knights boots.

By doing so the difference between your crit damage and a full zerkers crit damage will be minimal while you will have better other stats than them.

Problem is, most of us have 1 or 2 full ascended sets and by switching the optimal combos around, anet rendered all our armor useless. Almost 1000g down the drain.
Not to mention the laurels I have to reinvest. So I really hope I can get a free stat change.

I lost 11.23 % total dps.

Warlord.9074:

Right the way its going to be is some gear will give more crit damage than other gear. You only wan’t to use the pieces that give the most ferocity. And not use the pieces that give the least. That way you can minimize the loss of other stats.

So if a pair of gloves only gives 20 Ferocity now. And lets say a Ring gives 105. It makes no since to wear those gloves. Yes use the rings but for the gloves use something else.

The way I am reading into this is previously. People liked to do somthing like

Knights Helm
Zerker shoulders.
Knights Chest
Zerker gloves.
Knights Pants
Zerker boots.

Now its the opposite.

You may want to do.

Knights Helm
Knights sholders.
Zerker Chest.
Knights gloves.
Zerker Pants.
Knights boots.

By doing so the difference between your crit damage and a full zerkers crit damage will be minimal while you will have better other stats than them.

You’ve missed the point of the change entirely, on every piece of gear you will get identical stat tradeoffs for ferocity. It will be a minor stat and it will get as many points as other minor stats.

Player Character.9467:

Warlord.9074:

Right the way its going to be is some gear will give more crit damage than other gear. You only wan’t to use the pieces that give the most ferocity. And not use the pieces that give the least. That way you can minimize the loss of other stats.

So if a pair of gloves only gives 20 Ferocity now. And lets say a Ring gives 105. It makes no since to wear those gloves. Yes use the rings but for the gloves use something else.

The way I am reading into this is previously. People liked to do somthing like

Knights Helm
Zerker shoulders.
Knights Chest
Zerker gloves.
Knights Pants
Zerker boots.

Now its the opposite.

You may want to do.

Knights Helm
Knights sholders.
Zerker Chest.
Knights gloves.
Zerker Pants.
Knights boots.

By doing so the difference between your crit damage and a full zerkers crit damage will be minimal while you will have better other stats than them.

You’ve missed the point of the change entirely, on every piece of gear you will get identical stat tradeoffs for ferocity. It will be a minor stat and it will get as many points as other minor stats.

This really sucks for people who have builds that rely on trinkets for most of their crit damage cause trinkets are getting a pretty huge crit dmg nerf with this change.