Guild Wars 2

If I understand correctly, we will be forced to choose between Dogged march, Armored attack and Shield master trait in Adept line. So basically (speaking for WvW) using Dogged march and Shield master together will be impossible..? I might be wrong, so please correct me if that’s the case.

But if this is right, they made shield even less viable imo. Sad.

Yeah it sucks.

If it was me i would get rid of the useless Thick Skin and put Dogged March there and thats it, everyone happy.

Yeah, that is a shame. I agree that Dogged March as a minor trait would round the Defense line out perfectly.

OTOH, traited Shield 5 is really strong, I don’t think shield builds are any less viable.

But who in their right mind would trade Dogged march for Shield master.
As Juba said above, replacing Thick skin (or just removing it cause no one uses it) with Dogged march would be wise. You either use Adrenaline health or Dogged march for your minor, regen vs. condi dur reduction seems logical to me.

Honestly, I’d just say it’s a choice.

Yeah, you can’t get reduced cooldowns on shield and -movement durations+regen from the same line…

But you do gain a bunch more. You also reflect projectiles with block as well as gain might for blocking. Frankly, until I see what they decided to do with the chunk of condition duration that was dropped from traits, it could be an overall positive (base conditions dropping by 30% for people not geared for it).

hobotnicax.7918:

But who in their right mind would trade Dogged march for Shield master.
As Juba said above, replacing Thick skin (or just removing it cause no one uses it) with Dogged march would be wise. You either use Adrenaline health or Dogged march for your minor, regen vs. condi dur reduction seems logical to me.

I am thinking there might be something going on with Mending Builds that might sway things out of Dogged March.

I am more concerned about whether or not Armored Attack will see use, maybe in PvE but eh.

Thick Skin would work (at least in PvE) if it where beefed up somewhat. Like say it’s effectiveness would be increased by using something like 70%, instead of 90%. Even in PvE, the trait as it is, is of minimal value.

Armored Attack isn’t bad – at least for PvE. Dogged March works reasonably well in PvE.

Dogged March isn’t really necessary. I would go straight to the shield trait.

The 2 of the 3 shield traits are already paired up against dogged march. All they did Is put them together. I don’t see why you are all so displeased.

Picture from dulfy so people know what’s being discussed here: http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/gw2-warrior-defense-specialization.jpg

Like I said, this is a view from a WvW perspective. Dogged march is one of the best traits to have in WvW as a warrior. But I want to talk about using shields, cause shields are awesome yet not that many people use them cause there are better weapon choices out there currently. And with the shield master trait being in the same tier as Dogged march I don’t think that will change much. Although I do agree the shield trait is much better now, just placed terribly.

Na if your taking a shield you’ll take the trait just for the block pushes and mobile strikes+the movement speed means you can push really far into a line just by using that block and shield 4 to break any immobilise after the block is over.

so i’d say its a fair trade for the type of play/build style you want rather than making a build thats got rotational blocks+ nearly immune to cripples ect with the lemon grass.

my pvp build had to choose between reduced cool downs and reflects. now it no longer has to, and I am pleased as hell.

The new Shield Master trait clearly caters specifically to Mace/Shield users. If you take Sundering Mace you’ll have a build that has a short CD block that reflects and gives you might. Now if we could have Counterblow not end when it blocks attacks like the Mes GS1 or certain Ele abilities. Idk if that’s intended or an oversight but imo a weapon that’s super focus on defense should be reliable.

Now if we could get Unsuspecting Foe in the Strength Minor line where it belongs.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Now if we could get Unsuspecting Foe in the Strength Minor line where it belongs.

Why? It was always in arms and thats where it belongs – in crit line. Arms is not olny for condi as some people trying to imply. With these changes arms has high potential to become a bunker hunter line as well – signet mastery, opportunist, burst precision.

Scoobaniec.9561:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Now if we could get Unsuspecting Foe in the Strength Minor line where it belongs.

Why? It was always in arms and thats where it belongs – in crit line. Arms is not olny for condi as some people trying to imply. With these changes arms has high potential to become a bunker hunter line as well – signet mastery, opportunist, burst precision.

The only weapons that can take advantage of the trait reliably are Mace and Hammer, and you rarely see it used with Hammer. With the changes to how Specs work you wouldn’t want to use the Arms line with either weapon, there just isn’t enough synergy. The only use for it in Arms I can think of is Shield Bash into Final Thrust, whoopdido.

I’ve never liked the positioning of UF but now there’s REALLY no reason for it to be there. It should take the place of the basically worthless Building Momentum (it gives a pathetic amount of Endurance atm) because at least there’s some synergy to be had then. The Arms minor should deal with bleeds like the other 2 or another condition.

Skullcracker builds needs that trait to work, but ideally you would go Strength/Defense/Discipline with physical skills so that you can focus on interrupts and that iconic Skull Crack + 100b combo which doesn’t hit that hard without UF.

WvW roaming/sPvP- Shield mastery

WvW zerging- Dogged march. You don’t need a lower cooldown for Shield stance. In zerging, You won’t be shot by a sniper very easily. Your biggest threat is AoE.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Skullcracker builds needs that trait to work, but ideally you would go Strength/Defense/Discipline with physical skills so that you can focus on interrupts and that iconic Skull Crack + 100b combo which doesn’t hit that hard without UF.

Yeah i perfectly know where you coming from. Just because you want to suit everything to your playstyle and pack everything into one line so you can have high dps+surv in one package doesnt it wont hurt other possible builds. Make a choice between str, def and disci line. Its up to you what you going to lose. Maybe make dogger march as minor as well so you can use shield mastery too in this gimmick skulljoke build? Wont happen.

And lack of synergy? Olny in master line (and that if you wont pick up tactic line olny, i forgot to mention). Berserker fury+furious are a huge buff to my mace/shield+hammer build as i been spending too much time gaining adrenaline. These 2 traits fixing any issues i had with it. By moving unsu foe to str line you breaking my build. Not olny that but what will happen when hb will finally get a rework? Useless trait. Ty for attention.

Thx Arenanet for the new Shield Mastery Trait. Been waiting for this change for a while. Love it! Good to see that you guys listen to our suggestions. I’ll definitely take this trait over dogged march. The fact that some people have a hard time choosing between the two traits is a good sign you guys got it right.

Scoobaniec.9561:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Skullcracker builds needs that trait to work, but ideally you would go Strength/Defense/Discipline with physical skills so that you can focus on interrupts and that iconic Skull Crack + 100b combo which doesn’t hit that hard without UF.

Yeah i perfectly know where you coming from. Just because you want to suit everything to your playstyle and pack everything into one line so you can have high dps+surv in one package doesnt it wont hurt other possible builds. Make a choice between str, def and disci line. Its up to you what you going to lose. Maybe make dogger march as minor as well so you can use shield mastery too in this gimmick skulljoke build? Wont happen.

And lack of synergy? Olny in master line (and that if you wont pick up tactic line olny, i forgot to mention). Berserker fury+furious are a huge buff to my mace/shield+hammer build as i been spending too much time gaining adrenaline. These 2 traits fixing any issues i had with it. By moving unsu foe to str line you breaking my build. Not olny that but what will happen when hb will finally get a rework? Useless trait. Ty for attention.

Mace/Hammer builds are and always will be one trick pony builds. Both have short range and only 1 way to close gaps. Also, the second someone throws on Stability you’re basically useless for the duration. Also, even on that build there’s more synergy to be had in the Strength line (Body Blow/Distracting Strikes) and there’s no way you’ll be any good with 66006 because condis would eat you alive and you lose a ton of sustain.

I don’t see Mace/Hammer becoming viable even with the changes as they currently are. Focusing so kitten CC is asking to be hardcountered.

And how is that different from one trick pony skullcrack? The fact that you say that stab is enough to hardcounter it olny proves the fact that you have no idea how to play it either. Also in current meta i dont see a lot of stability – a reason why ring of warding/slick shoes are so strong.

I never had troubles with mobility either considering the fact that spvp is based around defending/capturing points. Also just cause you dont know how to make something work ouside of yolo skullcrack doesnt mean someone cant make it work either. Str on it own is for condi/hybrids not power builds. Wrong again.

The olny thing that will hardcounter it is something that deals ton of damage along with high uptime stab. But you only show bias towards your build. As i said above you want your build to be broken by having dps/def/cc/mobility in one package making every other build inferior to yours as who would run some glass gs+axe/shield 6/6/0/0/6 when they can go for skullcrack and still deal load of damage along with cc and being tanky as well? Exacly. Nobody.

Right there you turned every another power build to be completely useless. Thats not what devs wanted to archieve by making these changes. Unsu was always in crit line and it will stays there, i dindt seen anyone complaining about it being in arms instead of str line. But since gs trait getting buff and is placed in str line suddenly unsu foes makes no sense to be in arms anymore for you and thats olny cause you want to have all in1.. The fact alone that now you have to make a tough choise between traits is a good sigh of balance, either you adapt or reroll/quit. What you do at this point doesnt matter for me.

I’m not going to say I agree with everything Burr says here, but the fact still remain that Unsuspecting Foe has no synergy with any of the traits in the Arms traitline. You will never take Arms over Strenght unless you are making a sword bleed build, and as such, Unsuspecting Foe has no relevence.

The real problem might be that the whole Arms trailine is kinda bad compared to strenght, but oh well.

What? Come again?

Shield master is awesome, I use it on my warrior and win with it. If i get it rounded up with missile deflection and might on block then it’s pure awesome sauce. If any trait should get the boot it’s thick skin, not shield master. Especially since shield master provides 90 toughness already if you’re a shield user.

And don’t forget the new Spiked Armor, as shown, gives Retaliation on crits and blocks and +150 armor under Retaliation.

So traited Shield Stance is a mobile “it’s a really bad idea to attack me right now” mode on a 24s cooldown. Seems like a good way to destroy all those pewpew Rangers.

What happened to Merciless Hammer?

Its the GM strait in discipline.

With the buff to physical skills, I foresee running a cc-heavy build with mace and shield, even if it comes as the expense of DM.

I can’t wait to get my hands on this new shield trait. I’ve always used the CD one, so getting access to reflects and might stacking makes me very happy. With Cleansing Ire I’ve never felt too pressured to have Dogged March to begin with. Plus, the incoming Resistance to Healing Sig and the mending trait buff, I see no loss here.

Penguin.7906:

I’m not going to say I agree with everything Burr says here, but the fact still remain that Unsuspecting Foe has no synergy with any of the traits in the Arms traitline. You will never take Arms over Strenght unless you are making a sword bleed build, and as such, Unsuspecting Foe has no relevence.

The real problem might be that the whole Arms trailine is kinda bad compared to strenght, but oh well.

That’s my main point. Arms is clearly the Sword focused line (yes, there’s the potential for other combos but in general it’s sword) and I really enjoy running sword builds, but that means I’m going to have a minor trait that is almost worthless. I guess it’ll mean that Shield Bash + Final Thrust is likely to crit…but with the Sword trait and the other traits your default crit chance is high as it is so…why bother? That being said a hybrid Sword build looks really cool with Deep Strike – Blade master – Furious.

UF’s current placement hurts at least 2 builds and probably more.

Though do keep in mind that it’s ALL the shield traits rolled into one, which is quite powerful.

I have a similar dilemma on one of my builds, though I think I might be leaning towards the shield master instead of dogged march, as odd as that sounds.

However, we haven’t quite got all the details on how condition duration might be altered with the changes. You won’t be able to pick up any via stat lines anymore, and having stacking burning and poison might mean they won’t have as prolific sources of general condition duration anymore. In fact, I think they stated that they want to veer more towards people gaining specific condition duration rather than general condition duration bonuses. As such, dogged march might not be as necessary as it currently is once these changes finally go through.

Given that warrior’s sprint will now have the mobile strikes trait combined with it, it’s possible that will serve as a reliable alternative, though it obviously depends on weapon/utility choice.

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

i have been playing with the current reduced shield trait over dogged and i am barely seeing any difference without it. so

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

Actually, unless I’m mistaken that’s not the case. I’ve used the Might on Block trait with the Reflect before and have stacked a healthy amount of might, especially from Rangers who don’t know how to cancel their Rapid Fire.

PvP / WvW only…
Even with changes I don’t see using it in PvE (without heavy base CD reduction)… They really should differ PvP/PvE balance.

They also removed +Toughness on it (always this few % dmg more).

BurrTheKing.8571:

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

Actually, unless I’m mistaken that’s not the case. I’ve used the Might on Block trait with the Reflect before and have stacked a healthy amount of might, especially from Rangers who don’t know how to cancel their Rapid Fire.

No, and it doesn’t proc runes of the guardian or defender either.

Unless they have changed it since I last checked.

petespri.6548:

BurrTheKing.8571:

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

Actually, unless I’m mistaken that’s not the case. I’ve used the Might on Block trait with the Reflect before and have stacked a healthy amount of might, especially from Rangers who don’t know how to cancel their Rapid Fire.

No, and it doesn’t proc runes of the guardian or defender either.

Unless they have changed it since I last checked.

I just checked and you’re right. I’m almost certain it wasn’t always like that so they must have broken it at some point. I remember having both traits on before and getting a good amount of might from it.

Yamsandjams.3267:

However, we haven’t quite got all the details on how condition duration might be altered with the changes. You won’t be able to pick up any via stat lines anymore, and having stacking burning and poison might mean they won’t have as prolific sources of general condition duration anymore. In fact, I think they stated that they want to veer more towards people gaining specific condition duration rather than general condition duration bonuses. As such, dogged march might not be as necessary as it currently is once these changes finally go through.

I had been recently pondering the effects of removing the trait line duration bonuses and wonder how many players tended to capitalize off of them. That aside, I think you’re right and they’re leaning toward specific duration increased effects like burning or fury duration via traits, runes, sigils and food. I wouldn’t be opposed to them buffing giver’s armor a bit as well to provide around 30% boon duration but it’d still be a pretty bad armor choice…I wouldn’t mind them adding more duration increases to current food either (like +protection duration or -confusion duration) to food that currently doesn’t or has only 1 or 2 effects.

All in all, I think it might end up better than current and improve aspects of traits such as Deep Cuts and Dogged March without actually buffing them.

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

I thought about this too and was a bit distraught but, if the devs decide “no, we’re leaving it like that” I’m not going to cry too much

Youre right, not the end of the world, but why even state that it procs might if it never actually will?

And instead of just cutting that phrase, I’d like to see might proc, as well as guardian and defender runes, on reflect, not just block. Maybe those runes would find more use for more classes with reflect and block both proccing them (mesmer, engi)

Just heard of this, so sorry that I’m late. I really want to make an opinion on this.

First off about the UF thing, I use a sword and shield, and that UF will be very handy for me when I stun and Flurry, or Berserk to pump up those crit benefits.

After looking at the image, I’m thinking I might lean towards Arms and Defense traits only, with the majority in Defense because they all look too dang good to pass up. Seeing the reflect issue thing worried me, until I realized I don’t get into a lot of ranged fights in PvE, so I’m all good.

Bad thing about this is I’ll have to take some points out of Strength, but I didn’t like any of the majors for my weapons, so the only real lose for me is the extra points in power and condition damage, though I have runes and gear for that. Then again, I can potentially spam Might with consumes and sigils, so maybe that’s not such a heavy hit.

Overall I see myself going full on tank when this change is released, with the sword capabilities providing fair offense. Only problem I have in PvE is those dang poison spamming areas that destroys me. I haven’t found a solution to that one, yet.

OwikGall.1607:

Just heard of this, so sorry that I’m late. I really want to make an opinion on this.

First off about the UF thing, I use a sword and shield, and that UF will be very handy for me when I stun and Flurry, or Berserk to pump up those crit benefits.

After looking at the image, I’m thinking I might lean towards Arms and Defense traits only, with the majority in Defense because they all look too dang good to pass up. Seeing the reflect issue thing worried me, until I realized I don’t get into a lot of ranged fights in PvE, so I’m all good.

Bad thing about this is I’ll have to take some points out of Strength, but I didn’t like any of the majors for my weapons, so the only real lose for me is the extra points in power and condition damage, though I have runes and gear for that. Then again, I can potentially spam Might with consumes and sigils, so maybe that’s not such a heavy hit.

Overall I see myself going full on tank when this change is released, with the sword capabilities providing fair offense. Only problem I have in PvE is those dang poison spamming areas that destroys me. I haven’t found a solution to that one, yet.

Just wanted to make sure that you knew that you have to max three trait lines out in the new system, and you have to pick traits from the given tier.

dodge march a bit overrated in this thread

form y build now i can defiently take shield master, cleaning ire and defy pain and i’m fine with 2 stances and dolyak signet

dodge march still a viable option for wvw that you choose over shield mastery or other stuff

stop crying boyz and girlz u’re supposed to be WARRIORZ RAWRZ

petespri.6548:

OwikGall.1607:

Just heard of this, so sorry that I’m late. I really want to make an opinion on this.

First off about the UF thing, I use a sword and shield, and that UF will be very handy for me when I stun and Flurry, or Berserk to pump up those crit benefits.

After looking at the image, I’m thinking I might lean towards Arms and Defense traits only, with the majority in Defense because they all look too dang good to pass up. Seeing the reflect issue thing worried me, until I realized I don’t get into a lot of ranged fights in PvE, so I’m all good.

Bad thing about this is I’ll have to take some points out of Strength, but I didn’t like any of the majors for my weapons, so the only real lose for me is the extra points in power and condition damage, though I have runes and gear for that. Then again, I can potentially spam Might with consumes and sigils, so maybe that’s not such a heavy hit.

Overall I see myself going full on tank when this change is released, with the sword capabilities providing fair offense. Only problem I have in PvE is those dang poison spamming areas that destroys me. I haven’t found a solution to that one, yet.

Just wanted to make sure that you knew that you have to max three trait lines out in the new system, and you have to pick traits from the given tier.

Can you elaborate on picking traits from the given tier?

OwikGall.1607:

petespri.6548:

OwikGall.1607:

Just heard of this, so sorry that I’m late. I really want to make an opinion on this.

First off about the UF thing, I use a sword and shield, and that UF will be very handy for me when I stun and Flurry, or Berserk to pump up those crit benefits.

After looking at the image, I’m thinking I might lean towards Arms and Defense traits only, with the majority in Defense because they all look too dang good to pass up. Seeing the reflect issue thing worried me, until I realized I don’t get into a lot of ranged fights in PvE, so I’m all good.

Bad thing about this is I’ll have to take some points out of Strength, but I didn’t like any of the majors for my weapons, so the only real lose for me is the extra points in power and condition damage, though I have runes and gear for that. Then again, I can potentially spam Might with consumes and sigils, so maybe that’s not such a heavy hit.

Overall I see myself going full on tank when this change is released, with the sword capabilities providing fair offense. Only problem I have in PvE is those dang poison spamming areas that destroys me. I haven’t found a solution to that one, yet.

Just wanted to make sure that you knew that you have to max three trait lines out in the new system, and you have to pick traits from the given tier.

Can you elaborate on picking traits from the given tier?

For the adept slot, you’ll have 3 choice traits in a given trait line, you must pick one. In the master slot, you will have 3 choice traits, you must pick one, you cannot pick an adept trait for this slot.

Also, the stat points are distributed to your base stats and your gear. No longer will trait lines give stat points outside of specific traits like Empower allies.

And there are no trait points that you distribute among 5 trait lines. Instead, you have 5 trait lines and you must choose 3. That line is then Max.

Leo G.4501:

OwikGall.1607:

petespri.6548:

OwikGall.1607:

Just heard of this, so sorry that I’m late. I really want to make an opinion on this.

First off about the UF thing, I use a sword and shield, and that UF will be very handy for me when I stun and Flurry, or Berserk to pump up those crit benefits.

After looking at the image, I’m thinking I might lean towards Arms and Defense traits only, with the majority in Defense because they all look too dang good to pass up. Seeing the reflect issue thing worried me, until I realized I don’t get into a lot of ranged fights in PvE, so I’m all good.

Bad thing about this is I’ll have to take some points out of Strength, but I didn’t like any of the majors for my weapons, so the only real lose for me is the extra points in power and condition damage, though I have runes and gear for that. Then again, I can potentially spam Might with consumes and sigils, so maybe that’s not such a heavy hit.

Overall I see myself going full on tank when this change is released, with the sword capabilities providing fair offense. Only problem I have in PvE is those dang poison spamming areas that destroys me. I haven’t found a solution to that one, yet.

Just wanted to make sure that you knew that you have to max three trait lines out in the new system, and you have to pick traits from the given tier.

Can you elaborate on picking traits from the given tier?

For the adept slot, you’ll have 3 choice traits in a given trait line, you must pick one. In the master slot, you will have 3 choice traits, you must pick one, you cannot pick an adept trait for this slot.

Also, the stat points are distributed to your base stats and your gear. No longer will trait lines give stat points outside of specific traits like Empower allies.

And there are no trait points that you distribute among 5 trait lines. Instead, you have 5 trait lines and you must choose 3. That line is then Max.

Iffy on the second paragraph, but I get the general picture. Hmm… tough call.