Guild Wars 2

Since some1 advertised this build with a name of “GreatAxe”(gs/axe-shield) that it can actually pwn dd cele ele by showing video demonstration of pwning 2 dd cele non-stop and it has been passed like several months since Radioactive Crysis brought it to meta & esl, so how is it’s performance in these days? I haven’t watched any esl matches in past several months due to kitten university work. So, how is it? can it easily and always pwn dd cele ele if both players are skilled equally in their classes?

You won’t be pwning any decent D/D ele with that, even ok ones unless you catch them with nothing left or if they’re drooling on their keyboard and don’t pay attention. Ham/GS even with its bigger telegraphs gives you a much better shot at killing d/d simply because of the lockdown potential you have and the ability to stun lock them .

If they take fire prepare to get your burst kitten up by blinding ashes, if they take earth prepare to do garbage dmg eviscerates because they won’t crit. People need to stop hyping this build as being OP (something I’ve seen a lot of on the forums since shield got buffed) it was good before shield buffs, its still good now and it still suffers from everything a warrior normally suffers from; a.k.a huge telegraphs, very weak to constant blinding due to many attacks being single hit big dmg abilities and easily avoidable burst. Not to mention this build is pure melee so you know what pros and cons that comes up with. that being said no you will not be easily pwning any d/d eles if you’re equally skilled but if you run full glassy with zerker ammy you will get pretty amazing crits on eviscerates (my highest hit was a 13k on a p/p teef lol).

I also wish the name “GreatAxe” just got disposed of, it sounds so terrible.

Rekt.5360:

You won’t be pwning any decent D/D ele with that, even ok ones unless you catch them with nothing left or if they’re drooling on their keyboard and don’t pay attention. Ham/GS even with its bigger telegraphs gives you a much better shot at killing d/d simply because of the lockdown potential you have and the ability to stun lock them .

If they take fire prepare to get your burst kitten up by blinding ashes, if they take earth prepare to do garbage dmg eviscerates because they won’t crit. People need to stop hyping this build as being OP (something I’ve seen a lot of on the forums since shield got buffed) it was good before shield buffs, its still good now and it still suffers from everything a warrior normally suffers from; a.k.a huge telegraphs, very weak to constant blinding due to many attacks being single hit big dmg abilities and easily avoidable burst. Not to mention this build is pure melee so you know what pros and cons that comes up with. that being said no you will not be easily pwning any d/d eles if you’re equally skilled but if you run full glassy with zerker ammy you will get pretty amazing crits on eviscerates (my highest hit was a 13k on a p/p teef lol).

I also wish the name “GreatAxe” just got disposed of, it sounds so terrible.

if your words are true, then why did that top warrior whose name starts with An*s**rci* advertised it that he can likely & always pwn any dd cele ele with his video demonstrstion of owning non-stop 2 dd ele or are you better than him? I just cannot understsnd..

Like, who should i believe? What is real truth?

everything on forum is just an opinion. It is true that gs/axe shield can beat d/d ele. I myself won some fights against d/d ele from axe auto attacks. Hammer/gs can also beat d/d ele.

The problem here is not the game balance, but people mind set in general. People in forum will always say that all d/d ele that got beaten by warrior is bad.

If you want an answer to your question, go queue for unranked spvp or wvw and then test it yourself.

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

online.1278:

Rekt.5360:

You won’t be pwning any decent D/D ele with that, even ok ones unless you catch them with nothing left or if they’re drooling on their keyboard and don’t pay attention. Ham/GS even with its bigger telegraphs gives you a much better shot at killing d/d simply because of the lockdown potential you have and the ability to stun lock them .

If they take fire prepare to get your burst kitten up by blinding ashes, if they take earth prepare to do garbage dmg eviscerates because they won’t crit. People need to stop hyping this build as being OP (something I’ve seen a lot of on the forums since shield got buffed) it was good before shield buffs, its still good now and it still suffers from everything a warrior normally suffers from; a.k.a huge telegraphs, very weak to constant blinding due to many attacks being single hit big dmg abilities and easily avoidable burst. Not to mention this build is pure melee so you know what pros and cons that comes up with. that being said no you will not be easily pwning any d/d eles if you’re equally skilled but if you run full glassy with zerker ammy you will get pretty amazing crits on eviscerates (my highest hit was a 13k on a p/p teef lol).

I also wish the name “GreatAxe” just got disposed of, it sounds so terrible.

if your words are true, then why did that top warrior whose name starts with An*s**rci* advertised it that he can likely & always pwn any dd cele ele with his video demonstrstion of owning non-stop 2 dd ele or are you better than him? I just cannot understsnd..

Like, who should i believe? What is real truth?

Believe who u want lol but “Always” is a terrible exaggeration. Tarcis is a great player, we know that, what we don’t know is how good the 2 d/d’s were…I mean anyone can film a vid of themselves kittenting on 2 bads running meta builds and claim the build they’re using is super great correct? Though my points still stand, the build has the drawbacks of “huge telegraphs, very weak to constant blinding due to many attacks being single hit big dmg abilities and easily avoidable burst” as I mentioned, people can hardly deny that. How it plays out in a fight is entirely up to both players’ ability. Now axe auto HURTS a lot but I’m still confident that a d/d ele is not something you will easily and reliably pwn if he’s of the same skill lvl and if he goes into earth line then you’ll have more problems that if he goes in fire.

Velimere.7685:

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

Ummm… just don’t use the Balanced Stance on your bar until you’re actually cc’d? Or just pay attention to whether LS has procced? Or sub in Frenzy in place of Balanced Stance on your bar? Or a shorter stun breaker?

You’re welcome.

EDIT: On second read, you appear to have drawn the wrong conclusion. Last Stand doesn’t bug when you use Balanced on your bar, it’s that LS procs whenever you’re hit by a cc, whether you have stability on already or not.

That means you’re using Balanced, getting hit with a cc, that’s triggering LS, and you’re not noticing because you had stability. Follow my suggestions above and you’ll get the full effect of double Balanced, if that’s what you’re after. I dropped Balanced for Frenzy after the LS patch.

Choppy.4183:

Velimere.7685:

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

Ummm… just don’t use the Balanced Stance on your bar until you’re actually cc’d? Or just pay attention to whether LS has procced? Or sub in Frenzy in place of Balanced Stance on your bar? Or a shorter stun breaker?

You’re welcome.

EDIT: On second read, you appear to have drawn the wrong conclusion. Last Stand doesn’t bug when you use Balanced on your bar, it’s that LS procs whenever you’re hit by a cc, whether you have stability on already or not.

That means you’re using Balanced, getting hit with a cc, that’s triggering LS, and you’re not noticing because you had stability. Follow my suggestions above and you’ll get the full effect of double Balanced, if that’s what you’re after. I dropped Balanced for Frenzy after the LS patch.

Umm… I know exactly how Last Stand works, and what I said is a matter of fact whether or not you agree with it. If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate within 40 seconds after I have used said skill.

eles have too much sustain/mobility.. if you stun one-stunbreak if you catch up to one they port away they have permanent swiftness and remove all cripples/immob instantly.. at least that’s my experience, they just run in a big circle around the point and there is nothing you have that can stop them

It doesn’t ‘pwn’ them at all, but it sure offers some siutations where they will get rekt and insta killed. It’s your best shot at killing an ele due to it’s very high burst at aswell kitten consistant damage (axe auto). The best possible scenario is imo the following (not thinking that he ‘has wasted all cd blabla’):
U’re on an enemy node (ofc given tpvp mode) and thus threaten decap if he doesn’t get on point. First thing is to await his first dodge to after that shield bash into 100b, mainly to make them use armor of earth wich most will under that situation. With that wasted, u will try and dodge his main dmg, i.e fire, after wich use stances to keep high auto preassure. When shield bash is off cd and u get rather high adrenaline (close to full ofc) pop frenzy, get in many auto attacks, after the upcoming dodge, use shieldbash -> evis -> whirl. This ussually kills them because they’ll have 50-70% hp by the time you burst becuase you out dps their heal with auto (with frenzy). This is given a cele ele, with fire trait line. If they use earth u’re pretty much screwed.

As Evis build in TPvP I use the following:
http://tinyurl.com/nthgyd6

@online: Tarcis never “pwnd” any DD-Ele in his video. He did reset the fight two times and killed one ele with rampage and the other ele with 3k~hp left because of a lucky eviscerate combo in the last second. Every random blind/dodge ,updraft,blink, right the lightning would have made him lost.

Those recommended tactics some people give are probably the best tactics to kill an ele but it’s still such a onesided view. Every ele can blink away when you use stability or zerk stance, heal up the autoatacks and come back with right the lightning + updraft, random blinds etc. If the ele plays properly the winning chance is pretty much 0% and he also does not care about whether you got a decap if he wins the fight over a long term.
If an ele decaps your home point you don’t send your zerk warrior to the node, you send a bruiser/ pointholder who can handle an ele for a reason.
But I already stated that before and zapdos etc. confirmed this so I will not discuss this any further.

@others:
Zerk warrior works well with bunkerguard but it makes the rotations way more hard and complicated -see WTS – every three point tactic will cause a disadvantage.
Beside that you can also pick better zerk classes like mesmer,revenent and engineer.Zerk warrior is suboptimal and too predictable with too less usefull team support like for example stealth,portal,boons etc. – not to mention that you are lacking instant spikes which other zerk classes can provide.
I also don’t understand why people always want to see a zerk warrior in 1v1 situations against bruiser/pointholders. A zerk class is there to kill/spike enemies in the teamfight or to +1 opponents and not to fight a 1v1 against those classes.
A thief also can decap an ele if he has no FGS up but he can not hold the point decaped. At the same way a warrior will not hold the decap against an ele who is at least decent. Some people just don’t understand the role of zerk classes in tpvp it seems.

So to summ ut up:
Zerk warrior is defintly viable but it’s suboptimal in comparison to a mesmer and you actually need a bunkerguardian to make it working well.
And if the berserk-specialization will not get much better the difference between chronomancer and zerk warrior will become even bigger.

dominik.9721:

@online: Tarcis never “pwnd” any DD-Ele in his video. He did reset the fight two times and killed one ele with rampage and the other ele with 3k~hp left because of a lucky eviscerate combo in the last second. Every random blind/dodge ,updraft,blink, right the lightning would have made him lost.

Lol ^This. I actually went on his stream to look for this video where he pwned 2 d/d eles non-stop and what I saw was him having to reset twice before getting carried by rampage in order to kill an ele. Idk where this kittened exaggeration came from but ppl need to tone kitten down.

Velimere.7685:

Umm… I know exactly how Last Stand works, and what I said is a matter of fact whether or not you agree with it. If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate within 40 seconds after I have used said skill.

Then your first post was wrong, and your latest post agrees with what I said. In which case, follow my advice and get the full effect of double Balanced Stance. It’s not that hard.

Choppy.4183:

Velimere.7685:

Umm… I know exactly how Last Stand works, and what I said is a matter of fact whether or not you agree with it. If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate within 40 seconds after I have used said skill.

Then your first post was wrong, and your latest post agrees with what I said. In which case, follow my advice and get the full effect of double Balanced Stance. It’s not that hard.

Are you kidding me? My first post is 100% factual:

Velimere.7685:

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

Either get a clue or stop harassing me.

Is it that,

Velimere.7685:

ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

or,

Velimere.7685:

If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate

Those are two different statements but, regardless, I already solved your problem with my very first reply (and every one since then). That’s not harassment, that’s helping. You need to relax, man.

Maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t see axe/shield being better than hammer. It’s a one trick pony set and can be kited extremely easily. I tried it multiple times, but always switched back to hammer afterwards.

Choppy.4183:

Is it that,

Velimere.7685:

ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

or,

Velimere.7685:

If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate

Those are two different statements but, regardless, I already solved your problem with my very first reply (and every one since then). That’s not harassment, that’s helping. You need to relax, man.

What you’ve quoted is absolutely not mutually exclusive: If Last Stand goes on recharge when you use the actual utility itself (read: Balanced Stance), then the trait will obviously not activate within 40 seconds after having used said utility.

Those are two different statements qualifying the same exact bug.

You didn’t solve anything let alone your inability to comprehend my stated facts.

No Pulse.2967:

Maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t see axe/shield being better than hammer. It’s a one trick pony set and can be kited extremely easily. I tried it multiple times, but always switched back to hammer afterwards.

Lol the way you describe axeshield is exactly how I feel about hammer xD though hammer has undeniably more utility in team fights. Landing CC on targets who can’t just pay attention to you is much easier and a 2sec stun/knockdown is wayyyy more useful in a team fight than eviscerate or axe’s auto cleave.

Rekt.5360:

No Pulse.2967:

Maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t see axe/shield being better than hammer. It’s a one trick pony set and can be kited extremely easily. I tried it multiple times, but always switched back to hammer afterwards.

Lol the way you describe axeshield is exactly how I feel about hammer xD though hammer has undeniably more utility in team fights. Landing CC on targets who can’t just pay attention to you is much easier and a 2sec stun/knockdown is wayyyy more useful in a team fight than eviscerate or axe’s auto cleave.

Shield has a 2-second stun, though it’s single-target only. What greatsword & axe/shield provide is superior defense and sustained DPS (axe cleaving is amazing) on a point.

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

Is it that,

Velimere.7685:

ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

or,

Velimere.7685:

If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate

Those are two different statements but, regardless, I already solved your problem with my very first reply (and every one since then). That’s not harassment, that’s helping. You need to relax, man.

What you’ve quoted is absolutely not mutually exclusive: If Last Stand goes on recharge when you use the actual utility itself (read: Balanced Stance), then the trait will obviously not activate within 40 seconds after having used said utility.

Those are two different statements qualifying the same exact bug.

You didn’t solve anything let alone your inability to comprehend my stated facts.

The first has LS not working upon activation of Balanced Stance. The second has LS not working upon having a cc skill used on you, despite having Balanced already up. The trigger is the cc skill, not using Balanced Stance on your bar. Balanced just doesn’t protect you from LS getting procced.

Your original complaint was that the “bug” means you can’t get the benefit of double Balanced Stance, but you’re incorrect. Changing your behaviour will ensure you get that benefit.

Go test it out. Allow yourself to get hit with a cc skill, and watch LS proc. Then use Balanced immediately after. Then watch LS proc 20s later if you get cc’d again. You’ll have 50% uptime of stability.

Choppy.4183:

The first has LS not working upon activation of Balanced Stance. The second has LS not working upon getting cc’d, despite having Balanced already up. The trigger is getting cc’d, not using Balanced. Balanced just doesn’t protect you from LS getting procced.

Your original complaint was that the “bug” means you can’t get the benefit of double Balanced Stance, but you’re incorrect. Changing your behaviour will ensure you get that benefit.

You are completely and utterly incorrect.

To reiterate,

Velimere.7685:

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

and

Velimere.7685:

If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate within 40 seconds after I have used said skill.

detail the exact same bug.

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

The first has LS not working upon activation of Balanced Stance. The second has LS not working upon getting cc’d, despite having Balanced already up. The trigger is getting cc’d, not using Balanced. Balanced just doesn’t protect you from LS getting procced.

Your original complaint was that the “bug” means you can’t get the benefit of double Balanced Stance, but you’re incorrect. Changing your behaviour will ensure you get that benefit.

You are completely and utterly incorrect.

To reiterate,

Velimere.7685:

It doesn’t help that you don’t get double Balanced Stance because ArenaNet bugged the Last Stand trait to go on recharge if you use the actual utility skill itself.

and

Velimere.7685:

If I activate Balanced Stance on my bar and get disabled after the fact, the trait will not activate within 40 seconds after I have used said skill.

detail the exact same bug.

My point isn’t to argue whether you’ve contradicted yourself, it’s to set the record straight in terms of what’s happening with Balanced Stance and Last Stand, and how to ensure you get maximum benefit.

Regardless of whether your posts agree or not, you appear to think using Balanced Stance puts LS on cooldown. If so, you’re wrong.

online.1278:

Rekt.5360:

You won’t be pwning any decent D/D ele with that, even ok ones unless you catch them with nothing left or if they’re drooling on their keyboard and don’t pay attention. Ham/GS even with its bigger telegraphs gives you a much better shot at killing d/d simply because of the lockdown potential you have and the ability to stun lock them .

If they take fire prepare to get your burst kitten up by blinding ashes, if they take earth prepare to do garbage dmg eviscerates because they won’t crit. People need to stop hyping this build as being OP (something I’ve seen a lot of on the forums since shield got buffed) it was good before shield buffs, its still good now and it still suffers from everything a warrior normally suffers from; a.k.a huge telegraphs, very weak to constant blinding due to many attacks being single hit big dmg abilities and easily avoidable burst. Not to mention this build is pure melee so you know what pros and cons that comes up with. that being said no you will not be easily pwning any d/d eles if you’re equally skilled but if you run full glassy with zerker ammy you will get pretty amazing crits on eviscerates (my highest hit was a 13k on a p/p teef lol).

I also wish the name “GreatAxe” just got disposed of, it sounds so terrible.

if your words are true, then why did that top warrior whose name starts with An*s**rci* advertised it that he can likely & always pwn any dd cele ele with his video demonstrstion of owning non-stop 2 dd ele or are you better than him? I just cannot understsnd..

Like, who should i believe? What is real truth?

I don’t think he said he can own any D/D cele ele as far as I know and I think I know of the videos you are talking about. In one of the videos he had to reset the fight and luckily he managed to kill the ele with rampage. Wasn’t even with GreatAxe, lol. In the second video he caught the ele with a good burst combo combined with quickness.

Not taking anything away from him but he was quite fortunate to down those two eles. This doesn’t represent what typically happens when you play this build. It’ll happen a few times yes but that doesn’t automatically make the build OP or even a good solution against a said build. He plays the build well, better than most of the population for sure but that goes to show that it takes somebody really skilled to make that build work, and even then you are still most likely to lose against somebody who is probably slightly less skilled.

Choppy.4183:

My point isn’t to argue whether you’ve contradicted yourself, it’s to set the record straight in terms of what’s happening with Balanced Stance and Last Stand, and how to ensure you get maximum benefit.

No. Your point is to blatantly falsify concerning the fact of the matter.

Choppy.4183:

Regardless of whether your posts agree or not, you appear to think using Balanced Stance puts LS on cooldown. If so, you’re wrong.

Balanced Stance most certainly does put Last Stand on full recharge; this is a FACT.

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

My point isn’t to argue whether you’ve contradicted yourself, it’s to set the record straight in terms of what’s happening with Balanced Stance and Last Stand, and how to ensure you get maximum benefit.

No. Your point is to blatantly falsify concerning the fact of the matter.

Choppy.4183:

Regardless of whether your posts agree or not, you appear to think using Balanced Stance puts LS on cooldown. If so, you’re wrong.

Balanced Stance most certainly does put Last Stand on full recharge; this is a FACT.

Alright, buddy. Suit yourself.

Choppy.4183:

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

My point isn’t to argue whether you’ve contradicted yourself, it’s to set the record straight in terms of what’s happening with Balanced Stance and Last Stand, and how to ensure you get maximum benefit.

No. Your point is to blatantly falsify concerning the fact of the matter.

Choppy.4183:

Regardless of whether your posts agree or not, you appear to think using Balanced Stance puts LS on cooldown. If so, you’re wrong.

Balanced Stance most certainly does put Last Stand on full recharge; this is a FACT.

Alright, buddy. Suit yourself.

Go test it for yourself instead of spewing lies, “Buddy”. I literally tested it 10 times in a row after encountering it for the first time, and it failed to proc all 10 times. It’s faster to test with another person, but I just used Chieftain Utahein in the Heart of the Mists since his Dual Strike pulls you on its way back to him. With Last Stand in your build, activate Balanced Stance. After its stability wears off, get into combat with said NPC and he’ll use Dual Strike on you. Last Stand will not proc while Balanced Stance is still on recharge.

Also, feel free to eat your own words after completing this test. Your intentionally ignorant responses to me have been of the utmost offensiveness to say the least.

Hi,

Velimere.7685:

Also, feel free to eat your own words after completing this test. Your intentionally ignorant responses to me have been of the utmost offensiveness to say the least.

If he’s wrong about Last Stand (I don’t know nor care about that bug), given your writing skills, it would have been easy to reply to him in a friendly way and convince him to test hypotheses right away. He’s actually a knowledgeable and helpful fellow.

Yet, your replies progressively included harshness and contempt, both in content and style, like a scholar admonishing children, rather than an adult explaining things to another adult.

This is of course a perception, not a fact. That it would have earned you a place in my killfile, should the forum provide for one, is however a fact, not a perception. Feel free to consider that I’m a trigger-happy intolerant person and forget about it.

I watched recent esl matchs yesterday but still there is no team using GreatAxe pwning The Abjured yet. It shows just similar outcome & result when people runned GreatHammer before.

Maybe anet need to dd cele ele more, because they use 2 dd cele cele ele, to let other team win at least once.

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

My point isn’t to argue whether you’ve contradicted yourself, it’s to set the record straight in terms of what’s happening with Balanced Stance and Last Stand, and how to ensure you get maximum benefit.

No. Your point is to blatantly falsify concerning the fact of the matter.

Choppy.4183:

Regardless of whether your posts agree or not, you appear to think using Balanced Stance puts LS on cooldown. If so, you’re wrong.

Balanced Stance most certainly does put Last Stand on full recharge; this is a FACT.

Alright, buddy. Suit yourself.

Go test it for yourself instead of spewing lies, “Buddy”. I literally tested it 10 times in a row after encountering it for the first time, and it failed to proc all 10 times. It’s faster to test with another person, but I just used Chieftain Utahein in the Heart of the Mists since his Dual Strike pulls you on its way back to him. With Last Stand in your build, activate Balanced Stance. After its stability wears off, get into combat with said NPC and he’ll use Dual Strike on you. Last Stand will not proc while Balanced Stance is still on recharge.

Also, feel free to eat your own words after completing this test. Your intentionally ignorant responses to me have been of the utmost offensiveness to say the least.

Sure, I just tested it out in a private arena. You are correct that it doesn’t proc, at least some of the time. I had a proc rate for LS of about 50% while Balanced Stance was in cool down (Note: See edits below).

Description of test:

1. Had opponent shield bash me
2. Last Stand procced
3. Activated Balanced Stance when LS stability ended
4. Had opponent shield bash me once Balanced Stance cooldown was 20s 10s or less

So, is there an issue?
Yes. No.

Will my workarounds solve it?
No. It works fine.

Is your explanation correct?
No. If it was, then LS would never proc while Balanced Stance was in cooldown.

Is it a bug?
Don’t know, but it doesn’t seem to behave consistently. Whether that was because LS has a longer than 40s CD and so whether it procced again was down to when I got shield bashed a second time, or it’s something else, I don’t know. No.

Is it a big deal?
With Last Stand on a 40s cooldown, and all but one stance acting as a stunbreaker (including the bonus one from Defy Pain), I can’t see why it would be. Plus, it works as it’s supposed to.

Also, having two of the shortest CD stun breakers in the game (Shake it Off and the HoT Outrage), and another source of backup stability or otherwise toughness bonus in Dolyak Signet, the warrior can be almost totally immune to control skills if you want to gear yourself that way.

Did you take things way too far?
Yes. As per Elegie’s comment, you really need to relax man.

EDIT: Math skills must be poor this morning…. The second shied bash should have come when Balanced Stance only had 10s or less. In that case, my LS proc rate was above 50% (possibly 100%).

Will have to test later to see if it performs properly or not once the cc comes in at the 10s or less mark.

tl;dr: It worked just fine. Procced 100% when Balanced had 10s of CD left.

Velimere.7685:

Rekt.5360:

No Pulse.2967:

Maybe it’s just me, but I still don’t see axe/shield being better than hammer. It’s a one trick pony set and can be kited extremely easily. I tried it multiple times, but always switched back to hammer afterwards.

Lol the way you describe axeshield is exactly how I feel about hammer xD though hammer has undeniably more utility in team fights. Landing CC on targets who can’t just pay attention to you is much easier and a 2sec stun/knockdown is wayyyy more useful in a team fight than eviscerate or axe’s auto cleave.

Shield has a 2-second stun, though it’s single-target only. What greatsword & axe/shield provide is superior defense and sustained DPS (axe cleaving is amazing) on a point.

Yeah that is true but idk, I personally run AxeShield but if I were grouped with another war I’d rather have him play GS/hammer I value the hammer CC and good weakness uptime much more than a cleave. But then again I don’t really do much group fighting on my war and usually go for far or points with only 1 guy on them so I can’t exactly comment on how effective the cleave would be in a group fight.

Elegie.3620:

If he’s wrong about Last Stand (I don’t know nor care about that bug), given your writing skills, it would have been easy to reply to him in a friendly way and convince him to test hypotheses right away. He’s actually a knowledgeable and helpful fellow.

Yet, your replies progressively included harshness and contempt, both in content and style, like a scholar admonishing children, rather than an adult explaining things to another adult.

This is of course a perception, not a fact. That it would have earned you a place in my killfile, should the forum provide for one, is however a fact, not a perception. Feel free to consider that I’m a trigger-happy intolerant person and forget about it.

English is a second language to me, yet you come at me like I have a higher responsibility than the individual who had been arguing against me out of decided ignorance instead of confirming whether or not what I was stating was true until his last reply.

He could’ve tested it at any time with or without my specifications given the specifics I already had initially noted upon instead of assuming one thing over another. If someone says there’s a bug and you just decidedly choose to disbelieve them and then proceed to argue against them on that point, that makes you the one in the wrong period.

Choppy.4183:

Description of test:

1. Had opponent shield bash me
2. Last Stand procced
3. Activated Balanced Stance when LS stability ended
4. Had opponent shield bash me once Balanced Stance cooldown was 20s 10s or less

tl;dr: It worked just fine. Procced 100% when Balanced had 10s of CD left.

“It’ll proc within the last 10 seconds of Balanced Stance’s recharge, so it’s not bugged! The other 30 seconds of the recharge are utterly inadmissible as evidence because I say so!”

Sadly for you (since you’re trying to misconstrue), but counting the last 10 seconds of a 40 second activation window simply means the trait was further bugged to have a recharge of 30 seconds while still being put on full recharge following the activation of Balanced Stance. What’s more, there seems to have been multiple hot-fixes today which seem to have fixed it somewhat, but not entirely. For example, Last Stand (as of my testing again prior to this reply) will proc within any duration after using Balanced Stance, but it will also proc even when you aren’t disabled while you already have stability on you provided that a skill that disables is used on you.

Point in case, they’re trying to sweep this one under the rug, and you’re so wanton that you’ll write up a reply confirming that the trait is in fact bugged in your experience all the while still proclaiming that I’m wrong. I don’t know whether I should remain offended by you at this point or simply feel sorry for you having singled yourself out by all but admitting your incapacity to ever admit to being wrong about something.

Rekt.5360:

Yeah that is true but idk, I personally run AxeShield but if I were grouped with another war I’d rather have him play GS/hammer I value the hammer CC and good weakness uptime much more than a cleave. But then again I don’t really do much group fighting on my war and usually go for far or points with only 1 guy on them so I can’t exactly comment on how effective the cleave would be in a group fight.

Don’t get me wrong: I too use axe/shield over hammer.

You can do damage without waiting for stability. Check.
You can tank a point as a glass cannon and escape when your stances run out. Check.
You don’t have team support but when YOU have team support it’s just as effective. Check.

Velimere.7685:

Choppy.4183:

Description of test:

1. Had opponent shield bash me
2. Last Stand procced
3. Activated Balanced Stance when LS stability ended
4. Had opponent shield bash me once Balanced Stance cooldown was 20s 10s or less

tl;dr: It worked just fine. Procced 100% when Balanced had 10s of CD left.

“It’ll proc within the last 10 seconds of Balanced Stance’s recharge, so it’s not bugged! The other 30 seconds of the recharge are utterly inadmissible as evidence because I say so!”

Sadly for you (since you’re trying to misconstrue), but counting the last 10 seconds of a 40 second activation window simply means the trait was further bugged to have a recharge of 30 seconds while still being put on full recharge following the activation of Balanced Stance. What’s more, there seems to have been multiple hot-fixes today which seem to have fixed it somewhat, but not entirely. For example, Last Stand (as of my testing again prior to this reply) will proc within any duration after using Balanced Stance, but it will also proc even when you aren’t disabled while you already have stability on you provided that a skill that disables is used on you.

Point in case, they’re trying to sweep this one under the rug, and you’re so wanton that you’ll write up a reply confirming that the trait is in fact bugged in your experience all the while still proclaiming that I’m wrong. I don’t know whether I should remain offended by you at this point or simply feel sorry for you having singled yourself out by all but admitting your incapacity to ever admit to being wrong about something.

This is starting to feel like a long troll, but, in the interest of setting the record straight so everyone (not just you) understands how the trait works and how we know….

The reason we have to wait until the last 10s of cd for Balanced Stance is because that’s when the original 40s cd of Last Stand was up as per my test. Let’s count it together, shall we?

0 seconds: Last stand is procced, 10s of stability applied. LS cd remaining: 40s
10 seconds: LS stability ends, activate Balanced. LS cd remaining: 30s. BS cd: 40s
40 seconds: Balanced Stance timer now shows 10s remaining. LS cd remaining: 0s

Therefore, I had to wait until the Balanced Stance cooldown was at 10s or less, otherwise the original 40s cd of LS wouldn’t be up.

By your explanation, I should have never been able to proc LS while Balanced Stance was in cooldown. Except I did 100% of the time once the LS cooldown was done.

And hotfixes… really? Dude, that’s sad.

For one, that line contradicts with your claim that a 10s window is still bugged in the same post quoted above. Second, there were no updates when I did the test, these sorts of bugs are typically documented, and the last bug fix was from seven days ago to fix a server crash (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates).

Just let it go. Every warrior reading this thread can test it for themselves, but nobody should do it more than you. You were wrong, accept it, there’s no shame in it, just move on.

EDIT: Also, on a second read of your test, it’s clear that you drew the wrong conclusion I said you did in my original reply to you.

Velimere.7685:

I just used Chieftain Utahein in the Heart of the Mists since his Dual Strike pulls you on its way back to him. With Last Stand in your build, activate Balanced Stance. After its stability wears off, get into combat with said NPC and he’ll use Dual Strike on you. Last Stand will not proc while Balanced Stance is still on recharge.

Last Stand is getting procced while you’re in Balanced Stance. Go test it again… you’ll see your stability stacks jump from 5 to 10 during the overlap. The key to avoiding this is what I said above, don’t use Balanced Stance until you know Last Stand has already procced.

Choppy.4183:

This is starting to feel like a long troll, but, in the interest of setting the record straight so everyone (not just you) understands how the trait works and how we know….

I assumed you were trolling from your second post, so thanks for admitting it.

Choppy.4183:

snip

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I’ve been saying.

In fact, it’s the inverse. I have no problems with activating Balanced Stance after Last Stand procs. Rather, as I specifically noted multiple times, my issue was entirely with Last Stand not proc’ing after having used Balanced Stance. Proc’ing Last Stand first is the opposite of what I was clarifying which was clearly proc’ing Balanced Stance first.

Choppy.4183:

And hotfixes… really? Dude, that’s sad.

I think it’s sad as well. They should just admit openly that they’re working on it instead of sweeping it under the rug.

Choppy.4183:

For one, that line contradicts with your claim that a 10s window is still bugged in the same post quoted above. Second, there were no updates when I did the test, these sorts of bugs are typically documented, and the last bug fix was from seven days ago to fix a server crash (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates).

A hotfix is when they change something in the game without a client update.

Now you know.

Choppy.4183:

Just let it go. Every warrior reading this thread can test it for themselves, but nobody should do it more than you. You were wrong, accept it, there’s no shame in it, just move on.

I’m not wrong; you’re wrong. The bug has simply changed via their hotfix and Last Stand will now proc from a disable skill even when you aren’t disabled. This didn’t happen before. My test using the same NPC has his disable proc Last Stand on me even when I’m not disabled by it having preemptively activating Balanced Stance: I now go from 5 stacks of stability (read: Balanced Stance) to 9 stacks of stability (read: Last Stand).

Choppy.4183:

EDIT: Also, on a second read of your test, it’s clear that you drew the wrong conclusion I said you did in my original reply to you.

You’re the one clearly drawing the wrong conclusion here.

@Velimere

1. I’ve not been trolling at all. My comment was implying that it was starting to feel like you were running a long (i.e. elaborate) troll on me due to the progressive absurdity of this conversation.
2. I’ve been using Last Stand with Balanced Stance for the better part of a year now. What you’re describing has been well known for some time, but you’re drawing the wrong conclusion. You can test this… Last Stand procs when you have Balanced Stance up. You’ll know because you’ll jump from 5 stacks of stability to 9. There are posts about it in this subforum that predate your post, any “secret hotfix”, the 40s cooldown, and even the invention of stability “stacks”.
3. Because of the above, you should let Last Stand proc first.
4. If you say you have no problem when you let Last Stand proc first, then you already know that Balanced Stance has no interaction with Last Stand’s cooldown. Of course, that ignores the fact that me getting Last Stand to proc 100% of the time when Balanced Stance was in cooldown contradicts pretty much every post you wrote on the subject.
5. They haven’t “swept anything under the rug”. You were wrong, as can be confirmed by many people (such as myself) with long history with this issue. What possible motive would they have to “hide” a fix to this relative non-problem? Think it through… the answer is none.
6. Hotfixes generally get documented (e.g. the server patch I mentioned), and they can include updates to the client. Moreover, the issue you’re describing couldn’t be fixed with just a server-side fix.

I think we’re done here. I’d be surprised if anyone in this thread has any doubt about the interaction between Last Stand and Balanced Stance anymore, and I doubt anybody finds your “secret hotfix” hypothesis compelling either.

If anyone else is unclear about how Last Stand and Balanced Stance work together, feel free to post here or in a new thread. It’s really straightforward.

@Choppy

You yourself said that Last Stand wasn’t proc’ing for you some of the time. I did extensive testing with it prior and it wasn’t working as intended. If it’s not a hotfix, then maybe it’s because the trait needed to be “refreshed” as I had been using Last Stand since before the patch and swapped it to Cleansing Ire then back recently after my initial test. Either way, I didn’t fabricate any of my experiences with the trait, yet you kept coming at me like I did.

Velimere.7685:

@Choppy

You yourself said that Last Stand wasn’t proc’ing for you some of the time. I did extensive testing with it prior and it wasn’t working as intended. If it’s not a hotfix, then maybe it’s because the trait needed to be “refreshed” as I had been using Last Stand since before the patch and swapped it to Cleansing Ire then back recently after my initial test. Either way, I didn’t fabricate any of my experiences with the trait, yet you kept coming at me like I did.

I said it didn’t work some of the time when I was operating under a miscalculated timeline. As soon as I started letting 40s pass from when Last Stand first procced, it worked as intended 100% of the time.

I never once said you fabricated anything. I said you’d drawn the wrong conclusions, as evidenced by my own experience, reference to posts over the last year at least describing this issue (correctly), and tests today that completely supported the explanation I provided, which is also consistent with the prevailing wisdom. I also gave you helpful advice to ensure you would always get the benefit of double balanced stance you were wanting.