Guild Wars 2

So i went up against want and pz on Sunday, dude was on his warrior and was using a rune which i guess i shouldn’t disclose on the forum , but he was OP on it. Tried it this morning, OMG, the rune is OP.

-Give you a great escape in tf,
-the burst is insane (i swear its better than strengh)
- easy to finish foes.

Anyone who has been playing the game for 1 or 2+ year might already know which one is it. So, has anyone else being trying new stuff?

This rune made me realized that warrior are DPS king indeed.

EDIT: Needless to say, if you know which rune is it, please try it in game and post your feedback.

Infiltration…?

Salamander.2504:

Infiltration…?

yup, you have guessed it.

12.4% dmg against foe below 50 or 60%. dude that’s insane.

And other classes get a traited 20%. Which we should have, or something similar.

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

+1

Maybe on a thief, where you can get Havoc + Executioner’s and get like 50+% dmg.

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

Nah, I don’t think so. I have used strengh till this point, so I know how great both are.

What are we comparing 5% dmg increase overall with 12.4% increase most of the time?? ( so 275 vs 248 ??)

Or zero escape mechs with 4 sec of stealth ?? (Which is a game changer especially if you were under focus)

And the added precision. Of you are using bezerker AT 1 boost your ferocity by about 3 % depending on how much you have?

What else 60% precision with 54 without it??

Dude, have you even tested the rune?

Furajir.3815:

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

+1

Maybe on a thief, where you can get Havoc + Executioner’s and get like 50+% dmg.

I disagree it s a lot easier to get someone under 50% hp with power warrior or in tf.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

Nah, I don’t think so. I have used strengh till this point, so I know how great both are.

What are we comparing 5% dmg increase overall with 12.4% increase most of the time?? ( so 275 vs 248 ??)

Or zero escape mechs with 4 sec of stealth ?? (Which is a game changer especially if you were under focus)

And the added precision. Of you are using bezerker AT 1 boost your ferocity by about 3 % depending on how much you have?

What else 60% precision with 54 without it??

Dude, have you even tested the rune?

Assuming marauder amulet and 10 might without strength rune (ussually more but im generous)
Strength = +16% dmg from power + might duration. And then another +5% from the bonus = +21%
Infiltration: +3.4% dmg above 50% hp and + 15.4% below 50% hp.
Average: 9.35% and that’s being generous cuz people are above 50% the greater part of the fight.

Assuming a zerker amulet:

Rune of Strength: 2375 power, 47% crit chance, 209% crit damage, +5% damage with might.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.587 with might.
1.512 without might.

Rune of Infiltration: 2200 power, 52% crit chance, 209% crit damage, 12% damage when striking a foe below 50% health.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.625 to a foe below 50% health. (2.4 % more damage than strength rune w/ might).
1.451 to a foe above 50% health. (8.6 % less damage than strength rune w/ might).

Decide for yourself.

Obindo.6802:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

Nah, I don’t think so. I have used strengh till this point, so I know how great both are.

What are we comparing 5% dmg increase overall with 12.4% increase most of the time?? ( so 275 vs 248 ??)

Or zero escape mechs with 4 sec of stealth ?? (Which is a game changer especially if you were under focus)

And the added precision. Of you are using bezerker AT 1 boost your ferocity by about 3 % depending on how much you have?

What else 60% precision with 54 without it??

Dude, have you even tested the rune?

Assuming marauder amulet and 10 might without strength rune (ussually more but im generous)
Strength = +16% dmg from power + might duration. And then another +5% from the bonus = +21%
Infiltration: +3.4% dmg above 50% hp and + 15.4% below 50% hp.
Average: 9.35% and that’s being generous cuz people are above 50% the greater part of the fight.

lol those numbers, Lets do it he right way.

ouble-click to apply to a piece of Armor.

(1): +25 Power Power
(2): +10% IMight Duration
(3): +50 Power Power
: +15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Increased outgoing damage; stacks intensity. Might for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power Power
(6): +20% Might duration; +5% damage while under the effects of Increased outgoing damage; stacks intensity. Might.

So check your numbers again. Supposed we have 2000 base power.

So its 2000 * 5% = 100 + 175 power = 275 point

vs

Infiltration

2000 * 12.45 = 249 point

Average: 9.35% and that’s being generous cuz people are above 50% the greater part of the fight.

And thats not true, even if 1 vs 1. It only take about 5 sec for a power warrior to drop anyone below 50% hp. (i.e headbutt 100b) or (rampage whatever). Arent we know as the one trick pony class?? Aren’t we supposed to kill someone as fast as possible before they out sustain us?

So the difference between both , in terms of power, is 26 point.

Now lets deal with Might: Might gives you 30 power, with strength you get that every 5 sec. So, even with Might added its only a 56 point difference. And anyone can share might these days, ele can, revs can, etc… so it’s not you cant get might without strength,

In total, infiltration gives you 249 dmg pt, 100 pt in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity (non-bezerker/bezerker mode)

So by using strengh, you are giving up 249 dmg pt, 100 pt in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity (non-bezerker/bezerker mode), 4 sec stealth for 26 or 56 point(if under might) in power?? hell no.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Obindo.6802:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Obindo.6802:

lol? Strength is far far far better, infiltration rune is pretty terribad

Nah, I don’t think so. I have used strengh till this point, so I know how great both are.

What are we comparing 5% dmg increase overall with 12.4% increase most of the time?? ( so 275 vs 248 ??)

Or zero escape mechs with 4 sec of stealth ?? (Which is a game changer especially if you were under focus)

And the added precision. Of you are using bezerker AT 1 boost your ferocity by about 3 % depending on how much you have?

What else 60% precision with 54 without it??

Dude, have you even tested the rune?

Assuming marauder amulet and 10 might without strength rune (ussually more but im generous)
Strength = +16% dmg from power + might duration. And then another +5% from the bonus = +21%
Infiltration: +3.4% dmg above 50% hp and + 15.4% below 50% hp.
Average: 9.35% and that’s being generous cuz people are above 50% the greater part of the fight.

lol those numbers, Lets do it he right way.

ouble-click to apply to a piece of Armor.

(1): +25 Power Power
(2): +10% IMight Duration
(3): +50 Power Power
: +15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Increased outgoing damage; stacks intensity. Might for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power Power
(6): +20% Might duration; +5% damage while under the effects of Increased outgoing damage; stacks intensity. Might.

So check your numbers again. Supposed we have 2000 base power.

So its 2000 * 5% = 100 + 175 power = 275 point

vs

Infiltration

2000 * 12.45 = 249 point

Average: 9.35% and that’s being generous cuz people are above 50% the greater part of the fight.

And thats not true, even if 1 vs 1. It only take about 5 sec for a power warrior to drop anyone below 50% hp. (i.e headbutt 100b) or (rampage whatever). Arent we know as the one trick pony class?? Aren’t we supposed to kill someone as fast as possible before they out sustain us?

So the difference between both , in terms of power, is 26 point.

Now lets deal with Might: Might gives you 30 power, with strength you get that every 5 sec. So, even with Might added its only a 56 point difference. And anyone can share might these days, ele can, revs can, etc… so it’s not you cant get might without strength,

In total, infiltration gives you 249 dmg pt, 100 pt in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity (non-bezerker/bezerker mode)

So by using strengh, you are giving up 249 dmg pt, 100 pt in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity (non-bezerker/bezerker mode), 4 sec stealth for 26 or 56 point(if under might) in power?? hell no.

Wtf are you talking about points?!? It’s plain % dmg increase, I have no clue wtf u’re trying to do atm. My statement remains, every bit of it. Im trying to help you, but if u’re stubborn to defend your origin statements no matter what cuz u can’t ‘be wrong’, go ahead…

Im not going to choose any side but, Obindo is right.

Salamander.2504:

Assuming a zerker amulet:

Rune of Strength: 2375 power, 47% crit chance, 209% crit damage, +5% damage with might.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.587 with might.
1.512 without might.

Rune of Infiltration: 2200 power, 52% crit chance, 209% crit damage, 12% damage when striking a foe below 50% health.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.625 to a foe below 50% health. (2.4 % more damage than strength rune w/ might).
1.451 to a foe above 50% health. (8.6 % less damage than strength rune w/ might).

Decide for yourself.

First off remember the might duration will provide higher average might power (seems you didnt) secondly, what u calculated was the average crit coefficient (and somehow involved plain dmg coefficient – I dunno wtf u tried to do) but with strength you will have a much higher BASE DMG power. So its “average crit dmg” coefficient is highly compensated by a higher base dmg (power) – 355 more power assuming 10 might stacks before strength rune is in effect (which is generous)

Tell me if u tried to do something else, Im still trying to figure out wtf u tried to do.

Guys guys, let’s not get hung up on the small details like Obindo being right, let’s just relax and play the game, no need to pick sides (I’m on Obindo’s) obviously, let’s just play the game and get back to what’s important, killing noobs with Strength runes bc they are clearly better.

You have 2 sides, 1 with false info, 1 with correct info.
kitten Infiltration rune on war.

I actually find myself still preferring Pack on Warrior. The extra critical hits you get from it I find much more useful. Yes the might duration is nice but if your attacks aren’t critical then that might isn’t as useful.

Obindo.6802:

Salamander.2504:

Assuming a zerker amulet:

Rune of Strength: 2375 power, 47% crit chance, 209% crit damage, +5% damage with might.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.587 with might.
1.512 without might.

Rune of Infiltration: 2200 power, 52% crit chance, 209% crit damage, 12% damage when striking a foe below 50% health.

Relative average “damage coefficient” on a skill with a damage coefficient of 1=

1.625 to a foe below 50% health. (2.4 % more damage than strength rune w/ might).
1.451 to a foe above 50% health. (8.6 % less damage than strength rune w/ might).

Decide for yourself.

First off remember the might duration will provide higher average might power (seems you didnt) secondly, what u calculated was the average crit coefficient (and somehow involved plain dmg coefficient – I dunno wtf u tried to do) but with strength you will have a much higher BASE DMG power. So its “average crit dmg” coefficient is highly compensated by a higher base dmg (power) – 355 more power assuming 10 might stacks before strength rune is in effect (which is generous)

Tell me if u tried to do something else, Im still trying to figure out wtf u tried to do.

I provided the minimum damage difference between Runes of Infiltration vs. Strength assuming a zerker amulet and the 5% damage boost but without including any might stacks. So, you can think of it as the bare-minimum difference between the two runes. Doing it as a damage coefficient simplifies things so you can compare the DPS on a pure percentage basis without going into toughness or weapon strength. My analysis does factor in the power stat. Here’s how it works for the first example calculation:

Relative damage coefficient=(Crit%)(Crit dmg)(1.05)+(1-Crit%)(1.05)

For zerker stats: Crit%=0.47, Crit dmg=2.09, and 1.05 is factoring in the 5% damage increase from Strength rune. This yields ~1.587. If you don’t crit at all and have no might, the relative damage coeffiicent would simply be 1 (because Crit%=0 and 1.05 would go to 1).

To do the same thing for Rune of Infiltration, you would just modify the Crit% to 0.52, change the 1.05 to 1.12, and multiply the “Relative damage coefficient” by a factor of (2200/2375); the power ratio of infiltration to strength rune. This yields 1.625.

The difference between this value and 1.587 (2.4%) is then the typical DPS change when you factor in critical hit chance. This method is independent of the actual damage coefficient, the target’s toughness, and the number of might stacks, but factors in critical hits, so it makes less assumptions then the methods outlined by you and Fivedawgs above and should be considered more rigorous because it factors in critical hits.

I like how OP sounds like rune sets can completely change the worst class in game to being OP..

oh wait, isn’t that the guy who used to be so convinced that warrior is good and everyone else should L2P?..

Cmon bruh, we all know monk runes are the best for warriors because we gotta supplement that healing and boons we got for sustain

kitten them both!! :-)

i go for Runes of Scrapper

+175 power
+100 toughness
7% dmg reduction (600 units from enemy;… enough on this capture point game)

I like them.

Scrapper runes are certainly great on the warrior, but they aren’t in the running for best burst. Scholar’s up there though.

Choppy.4183:

Scrapper runes are certainly great on the warrior, but they aren’t in the running for best burst. Scholar’s up there though.

I know they aint for burst ofc, best burst runes where no runes > orbs… in the days before the ferocity nerf (and mostly crappy runes also lol)

I had been using these since stary of season 2, i think they work really well with the ability of warrior to gain quickness when striking an opponet below 50% health and work well with our ability to stack might as the fight progresses

@Obindo, although you have done a bad job at explaining it, I was able to see where I faltered in my calculations.

Yeah, the dmg difference is 100 pts., and the added 100 pts. in precision are no contender. So it’s pretty much down to 4 sec of stealth and I will test it further to see if it’s really worth it. [That what i sent Obindo last tuesday]

Edit: False after reviewing my calculation, the 100 point in precision do actually compete with those 100 point bringing down the difference between those two runes to less than 50 point in terms of power. The Average dps number includes the 100 pts in precision

So after redoing the calculations, here is what I got.
Let’s use marauder as our base:
1050 Precision Precision
+1050 Power Power
+560 Vitality Vitality
+560 Ferocity Ferocity

You get:
- 5% dmg increase + 175 power point from strength which equate to (5* 1050175)/100 = 236.25 power point.

- Filtration gives you 12.45% Power increase against target under 50% Hp (which is pretty easy to do for a power warrior against any class except scrapper). So that 12.45 * 1050/ 100 = 130.725, 100 point in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity if traited under the bezerker line.

The Dps output is:

With Strength:
Crit: 2311.320
No Crit: 1236.000
Average: 1773.660 (with 0 precision)

With Filtration:
Crit: 2126.280
No Crit: 1131.000
Average: 1668.451 (with 100 precision)

source : http://gw2tools.net/effective-power Now remember the website doesn’t factor in Precision, so the crit numbers can be ignored. ( false: precision is factoring for any power value greater than 1000)

After reviewing the numbers, it because clear that if our opponent is either below 50% Hp or if we are under the influence of might; the difference between both (ideal scenario is :

Strength

1773.660 dmg
0 escape
Can generate might
can acquire might from teammates

Infiltration

1668.451 dmg
4 sec stealth ( or second defy pain/death)
Can’t generate might
Can acquire might from Teammates.

So, the dps difference between the two is 100 points, which is significant i guess, without factoring might. Fyi: the dmg output of hoelbrak, scrapper differ from strenght by 100 point as well ( might excluded).

I’ll factor in might later. But as of now, does losing 100 dps over 4 sec stealth worth it ( without might included).

I couldn’t reply earlier cause I got suspended for 4 days, tried to appeal to no avail. Anywyas, happy to be back.

Used this website for calculation: http://gw2tools.net/effective-power
Precision impact on dps: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

@laoding , The 4 sec stealth isnt bad for sustain. Trust me i have tried it, kept me alive like a dozen time.

nicknamenick.2437:

kitten them both!! :-)

i go for Runes of Scrapper

+175 power
+100 toughness
7% dmg reduction (600 units from enemy;… enough on this capture point game)

I like them.

Of course imo, infiltration compete with strength ( and since i am still testing, i cant say whether or not its better, but it looks and perform better. And ill give my verdict in a month); As far as scrapper is concerned, scrapper is def better than strength and , like stated above, i cant say if its better that infiltration. Although, it gives you 100 toughness and 7% dmg reduction, when you are about to die, you will die; 4 sec of stealth on the other hand will keep you alive,just cause you cant be targeted under stealth, especially in tf or when you are being targeted (takes pratice to master). But your point is valid, because i still use scrapper when against a full dps team; However, as time goes on i might stick to infiltration.

Now since our BUFF, i am seriously considering switching back to strength because we have sustain or using infiltration stealth’s as a second defy ’death" pain.

@FiveDawgs
You’re not factoring in the might generating benefit of the Strength Runes, which is really its primary effect. All that extra might (by way of the 45% duration increase, plus the small gain on hit) accounts for a significant power increase on a build that already generates a lot of might (like a traited gs build).

It also appears as though you’ve calculated the bonus damage from the Infiltration Runes as though it applies throughout the entire fight, which as you’ve noted, it doesn’t.

But even if we leave that in, and we factor in the extra precision, you’re still not hitting the damage levels you calculated for Strength Runes that don’t account for the extra might through Strength Runes.

That all aside, Infiltration is still a good, and fairly unusual rune choice. The stealth is a nice benefit, and there will probably be situations where the bonus modifier hits exactly when you want it – when an opponent is out of mitigators. It just doesn’t appear to have the raw damage of something like Strength Runes.

Choppy.4183:

@FiveDawgs
You’re not factoring in the might generating benefit of the Strength Runes, which is really its primary effect. All that extra might (by way of the 45% duration increase, plus the small gain on hit) accounts for a significant power increase on a build that already generates a lot of might (like a traited gs build).

It also appears as though you’ve calculated the bonus damage from the Infiltration Runes as though it applies throughout the entire fight, which as you’ve noted, it doesn’t.

But even if we leave that in, and we factor in the extra precision, you’re still not hitting the damage levels you calculated for Strength Runes that don’t account for the extra might through Strength Runes.

That all aside, Infiltration is still a good, and fairly unusual rune choice. The stealth is a nice benefit, and there will probably be situations where the bonus modifier hits exactly when you want it – when an opponent is out of mitigators. It just doesn’t appear to have the raw damage of something like Strength Runes.

True, I’ll edit the numbers again once I’ll get home. And yes, I am not disputing strenght dps status, it’s number 1 when it comes to dps. All I am doing is comparing both, and decide which one is should stick to. I ll redo the calculation once I’ll get home( with might included).

Fivedawgs.4267:

@Obindo, although you have done a bad job at explaining it, I was able to see where I faltered in my calculations.

Yeah, the dmg difference is 100 pts., and the added 100 pts. in precision are no contender. So it’s pretty much down to 4 sec of stealth and I will test it further to see if it’s really worth it. [That what i sent Obindo last tuesday]

Edit: False after reviewing my calculation, the 100 point in precision do actually compete with those 100 point bringing down the difference between those two runes to less than 50 point in terms of power. The Average dps number includes the 100 pts in precision

So after redoing the calculations, here is what I got.
Let’s use marauder as our base:
1050 Precision Precision
+1050 Power Power
+560 Vitality Vitality
+560 Ferocity Ferocity

You get:
- 5% dmg increase + 175 power point from strength which equate to (5* 1050175)/100 = 236.25 power point.

- Filtration gives you 12.45% Power increase against target under 50% Hp (which is pretty easy to do for a power warrior against any class except scrapper). So that 12.45 * 1050/ 100 = 130.725, 100 point in precision and 7/14 point in ferocity if traited under the bezerker line.

The Dps output is:

With Strength:
Crit: 2311.320
No Crit: 1236.000
Average: 1773.660 (with 0 precision)

With Filtration:
Crit: 2126.280
No Crit: 1131.000
Average: 1668.451 (with 100 precision)

source : http://gw2tools.net/effective-power Now remember the website doesn’t factor in Precision, so the crit numbers can be ignored. ( false: precision is factoring for any power value greater than 1000)

After reviewing the numbers, it because clear that if our opponent is either below 50% Hp or if we are under the influence of might; the difference between both (ideal scenario is :

Strength

1773.660 dmg
0 escape
Can generate might
can acquire might from teammates

Infiltration

1668.451 dmg
4 sec stealth ( or second defy pain/death)
Can’t generate might
Can acquire might from Teammates.

So, the dps difference between the two is 100 points, which is significant i guess, without factoring might. Fyi: the dmg output of hoelbrak, scrapper differ from strenght by 100 point as well ( might excluded).

I’ll factor in might later. But as of now, does losing 100 dps over 4 sec stealth worth it ( without might included).

I couldn’t reply earlier cause I got suspended for 4 days, tried to appeal to no avail. Anywyas, happy to be back.

Used this website for calculation: http://gw2tools.net/effective-power
Precision impact on dps: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision

@laoding , The 4 sec stealth isnt bad for sustain. Trust me i have tried it, kept me alive like a dozen time.

nicknamenick.2437:

kitten them both!! :-)

i go for Runes of Scrapper

+175 power
+100 toughness
7% dmg reduction (600 units from enemy;… enough on this capture point game)

I like them.

Of course imo, infiltration compete with strength ( and since i am still testing, i cant say whether or not its better, but it looks and perform better. And ill give my verdict in a month); As far as scrapper is concerned, scrapper is def better than strength and , like stated above, i cant say if its better that infiltration. Although, it gives you 100 toughness and 7% dmg reduction, when you are about to die, you will die; 4 sec of stealth on the other hand will keep you alive,just cause you cant be targeted under stealth, especially in tf or when you are being targeted (takes pratice to master). But your point is valid, because i still use scrapper when against a full dps team; However, as time goes on i might stick to infiltration.

Now since our BUFF, i am seriously considering switching back to strength because we have sustain or using infiltration stealth’s as a second defy ’death" pain.

Well I wasn’t trying to explain, I was just giving the numbers.
I still don’t understand what you tried to do with points and the difference is greater than what appears to be presented by your “points”. It’s a plain % average dmg increase (constant for strength) that I recall strength had twice the percentage points. Atleast you’re not still claiming that infiltration increased more dmg.

But I guess its’ all irrelevant now, as the sole adrenal health change made berserker > vanilla

I like tempest and pack runes

…ummm okai

@Obindo I agree and @oslaf that what RR bunker healer use, wilsonstorm actually pioneered that build. I seldom use RR so tempest is not a choice for me … and pack look ideal with axe and mace. Anyways, I’ll try pack after I get my new mouse on Tuesday.