Guild Wars 2

I didn’t say I was the best, or I was unique. I stated it was possible to use sustain if you specc for it. If these warriors theory crafted on sustain “long before I have”, then why are they the ones complaining, and I’m not? Are you saying if people are experienced, they are automatically right to say if a class is bad or good? facepalm Also like I said, is Scoob really wanted to, I agreed to 1v1 him.

About the one with phantasmal mesmers, I was saying it was possible to beat them, but you warriors who complain expect so much but you don’t even try new stuff. “OMG my bulls rush didn’t work when that mesmer used distortion! They are impossible to beat now!” Is what I saw in that thread. May not be the exact words but that is how they acted.

Lyonell.1753:

@Leo G: Oh really? Healing meditations added to the insane survivalbility of the guardian give you the ability to stay on target, remove conditions, turn em into boons, support your allies and so on it goes, same goes with shout build. The spiritual weapons are the only not so well thought or kinda useless utility I see in the guardian.

Healing shouts add very little sustain and sacrifice your utility slots. Even with soldier’s shouts removing conditions don’t add for enough sustain. Again you need 30 points in the vit tree which for a warrior is worthless in every way. More hp adds nothing since we can’t heal it back or keep it from going down the toilet due to no protection or aegis or any real source of damage reduction.

Again sacrificing utilities to get crit. Yeah…this shows how broken the class is.

Well I can log my ranger and show you. WvW wise nothing can kill him, spvp wise his sustain is insane enough if property played and his damage is good enough even after the pet’s nerf.

@Skelemiere: Clearly you’re either trolling or you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Let’s put it this way, every other warrior are facing the problems, yet you aren’t. I fought a bunch of warriors today in spvp… None proven close to a challenge. If you aren’t encountering all these problems then share your build, show a video or something.

I am glad some warriors actually know what they are talking about.

Lyonell, I’m not the only one who disagrees with the poor sustain. lol

I’m done, you guys complain, and that’s it. “I got hit, I should have better sustain” or “My zerker build have poor regen, our sustain sucks” Is what I always see nowadays. Please take time to learn how to use a warrior and you guys will be fine later

The point is, they have already tried it and deemed it un-viable, that is why telling them to try something they have already tried to make work to death again is silly.

They are criticizing and theory-crafting because unlike you they want to improve the class and take an active interest in balancing in this game. I don’t make suggestions either, because I personally don’t take as much of an interest as Daecollo for example, but that also means that if I ever wish to criticize them I don’t use silly 2 word replies like “Healing Power” to do so, it doesn’t do anything for the credibility of your suggestion.

An experienced person generally knows more about a subject than one who isn’t as experienced yes. I guess you facepalm when a professor or teacher tries to tell you you’re wrong about a subject you are studying.

And before the patch it was impossible to beat a good enough phant mesmer on a warrior. I’ve beaten phant mesmers too, but this is because they were bad and I’m under no illusions like you seem to be about it. Lets just say we disagree on this topic as I brought it up for a specific reason and acknowledge it is largely off topic now so I’ll let that go here.

I would love to see this fight also, please when you two scheduling invite me. If you take this duel, then go on to make posts and content proving your sustain claims are true, and can refute all these well written arguments storming the warrior forums of the lack of sustain they have (as opposed to “Stack healing power”) then I will be the first to turn around and apologize, and compliment you on your resilience at adversity.

Till then, bon voyage.

PistolWhip.2697:

Man, if you think these posts are funny, check Scoob’s post in his thread.

If you take burst mastery and cleansing Ire at once, it reduces your total condition removal! LOL

Its seems to be fixed now. Just made a tests with friend, and its does remove 3 conditions now. Besides that now we tried 1v1 (hes an engi) pre-patch i was dropping him..Right now im dying before i even manage to get 2 bars of adrenaline..Go figure. I actually feel much worse than pre-patch, and i struggles with any class except eles and guardians.

Skelemiere.3094:

Lyonell, I’m not the only one who disagrees with the poor sustain. lol

I’m done, you guys complain, and that’s it. “I got hit, I should have better sustain” or “My zerker build have poor regen, our sustain sucks” Is what I always see nowadays. Please take time to learn how to use a warrior and you guys will be fine later

I will l2p when someone will post a vid now and prove me thakittens possible. As its stand while i had hope to see decent changes, as they moved sitting on adrenaline traits to GM, it ended for us worse than its was. Im actually ready to uninstall this game

Skelemiere.3094:

I didn’t say I was the best, or I was unique. I stated it was possible to use sustain if you specc for it.

Yes, warriors can get their sustain if they sacrifice 30 into Defense, and 30 into Tactics.

All the other classes however, get some moderate sustain baseline, and can enhance that sustain by traiting.

This is somewhat opinion based, but maybe this can help clarify what the issue is…..

Sustain (Balanced Trait Build )
Guard 6/10
Ele 5/10
Engy 5/10
Warrior 2/10

Sustain (Bunker Trait Build)
Guard 10/10
Ele 9/10
Engy 9/10
Warrior 7/10

The issue is not our sustain if we trait it, it’s that we have really poor sustain relative to other classes if we don’t

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

Dand.8231:

Skelemiere.3094:

I didn’t say I was the best, or I was unique. I stated it was possible to use sustain if you specc for it.

Yes, warriors can get their sustain if they sacrifice 30 into Defense, and 30 into Tactics.

All the other classes however, get some moderate sustain baseline, and can enhance that sustain by traiting.

This is somewhat opinion based, but maybe this can help clarify what the issue is…..

Sustain (Balanced Trait Build )
Guard 6/10
Ele 5/10
Engy 5/10
Warrior 2/10

Sustain (Bunker Trait Build)
Guard 10/10
Ele 9/10
Engy 9/10
Warrior 7/10

The issue is not our sustain if we trait it, it’s that we have really poor sustain relative to other classes if we don’t

Sustain (Balanced Trait Build )
Guard 8/10
Ele 7/10
Ranger 7/10
Engy 6/10 (but they can fight at ranged.)
Warrior 3/10

Sustain (Bunker Trait Build)
Guard 10/10
Ele 9/10
Ranger 9/10
Engy 7/10 (but they can fight at ranged.)
Warrior 4/10

Its more like this. All we can do to get more sustain is get more toughness, which really doesn’t matter after you get 2800…

Skelemiere.3094:

Lyonell, I’m not the only one who disagrees with the poor sustain. lol

I’m done, you guys complain, and that’s it. “I got hit, I should have better sustain” or “My zerker build have poor regen, our sustain sucks” Is what I always see nowadays. Please take time to learn how to use a warrior and you guys will be fine later

Your problem again lies within the fact that you think everyone is a zerker warrior who bull rush goes frenzy and HB his target hoping he can get a kill before he dies. Again you are wrong.

I been testing builds around in spvp all day, did clerics, switched weapons and traits around and found nothing viable. Healing power doesn’t scale well enough on warriors like it does on rangers for example. This is because rangers got far more sources of regen and ticks healing. Thus if I have 4 regens ticking +35 because of high healing power. thats a total of 140 additional health per tick. If you add that to trolls which heals around 1.7k per tick on a healing power build you get about 1.9k per tick on a low cool down that keeps you alive due to massive evades and access to protection. Not to mention high armor.

On a warrior a fully cleric geared and healing oriented gems bla bla bla bla gets healing signet ticks around let’s be generous and say 300…our regeneration trait gives us another 400 every 3 seconds. that’s 700 every 3 seconds and 300 “actually a lot less” every second. Now I use MY ALL MIGHTY BURST HEAL. And heal for 3.7k…without poison but my healing signet passive is gone. There is no protection to reduce incoming damage and no aegis to deflect it.

Again to get those unrealistically high numbers above you sacrificed all your damage, chance to crit and most of your utilities and possible builds. Now you sustain yourself less than any other class, bring less to the table than all other classes and still can’t kill anything. Congrats you got a broken useless class!

Not to mention rangers have evades all over the place and invulnerability that also soaks up even more damage… They also have more dodges and protection and much easier access to regeneration (without sacrificing 30 points and doing what we do below.)

We also have to carry around a banner all day to get that regen.. lol not viable.

Daecollo.9578:

Its more like this. All we can do to get more sustain is get more toughness, which really doesn’t matter after you get 2800…

I disagree with your ratings, esp keeping warrior at 4/10 bunker. You have a bad habit of taking a real problem, serious as it may be, and exaggerating it even more, which has the ironic effect of making people take you less seriously. Truth is, I get decent sustain out of my war when I go pure bunker, IMHO worthy of a 7/10.

It’s the pitiful warrior sustain for any build that does not go banner/shout healing that’s an issue.

Skelemiere.3094:

Speaking of a laugh, you are giving me one now. A guy who surely doesn’t know how to use a warrior, starts complaining on how much it sucks. Please explore more possible builds instead of spamming 100b and complaining for sustain. Maybe you will learn something new

I’m sorry but you are 9 months late for the 100b Bulls Rush Frenzy craze, shows how much you know.

I run a very balanced wvw build that is viable (and I use it) in 300-400+ tpvp. Figure out a way to work quick breathing (Warhorn reduction and condi conversion) into your build and you’ll find some pretty good survivability regarding conditions. There are a multitude of good builds out there for WvW, sadly for pvp it is extremely limited and even then they are only slightly comprable. I build my warrior for tpvp like I do a roaming/support ele and find that it is quite good for this role (team support, survivability and offensive pressure). The warrior is by no means though a thief/engi style class with high amounts of burst and also the means of escapaing/surviving pressure easily. So yes, if you want to play your warrior with a ton of high dps in tpvp, you will get crushed.

docMed.7692:

I run a very balanced wvw build that is viable (and I use it) in 300-400+ tpvp. Figure out a way to work quick breathing (Warhorn reduction and condi conversion) into your build and you’ll find some pretty good survivability regarding conditions. There are a multitude of good builds out there for WvW, sadly for pvp it is extremely limited and even then they are only slightly comprable. I build my warrior for tpvp like I do a roaming/support ele and find that it is quite good for this role (team support, survivability and offensive pressure). The warrior is by no means though a thief/engi style class with high amounts of burst and also the means of escapaing/surviving pressure easily. So yes, if you want to play your warrior with a ton of high dps in tpvp, you will get crushed.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

Daecollo.9578:

docMed.7692:

I run a very balanced wvw build that is viable (and I use it) in 300-400+ tpvp. Figure out a way to work quick breathing (Warhorn reduction and condi conversion) into your build and you’ll find some pretty good survivability regarding conditions. There are a multitude of good builds out there for WvW, sadly for pvp it is extremely limited and even then they are only slightly comprable. I build my warrior for tpvp like I do a roaming/support ele and find that it is quite good for this role (team support, survivability and offensive pressure). The warrior is by no means though a thief/engi style class with high amounts of burst and also the means of escapaing/surviving pressure easily. So yes, if you want to play your warrior with a ton of high dps in tpvp, you will get crushed.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

More; don’t run super offensive dps builds and expect to do well like a thief/trap ranger/condi engi can do. They do be default however, have a much higher overall dps ability (i.e. look at pve, it’s quite obvious there), so by scaling back offensive capability, you can pick up the needed survivability and still provide some strong offensive pressure.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjkOxwZPCPMxBEkCNEAUKsDAI9IMGj1A-ToAg0CtIMSZkzIjRSjsGNIYxB

Here is the stoooooooopid sustain build I’m trying to run.

It still lacks vigor, so maybe I’ll have to change weapons.

The empty trait slot is DotE. The only thing I think Might help.

Warning: will most probably not work.XD

docMed.7692:

Daecollo.9578:

docMed.7692:

I run a very balanced wvw build that is viable (and I use it) in 300-400+ tpvp. Figure out a way to work quick breathing (Warhorn reduction and condi conversion) into your build and you’ll find some pretty good survivability regarding conditions. There are a multitude of good builds out there for WvW, sadly for pvp it is extremely limited and even then they are only slightly comprable. I build my warrior for tpvp like I do a roaming/support ele and find that it is quite good for this role (team support, survivability and offensive pressure). The warrior is by no means though a thief/engi style class with high amounts of burst and also the means of escapaing/surviving pressure easily. So yes, if you want to play your warrior with a ton of high dps in tpvp, you will get crushed.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

More; don’t run super offensive dps builds and expect to do well like a thief/trap ranger/condi engi can do. They do be default however, have a much higher overall dps ability (i.e. look at pve, it’s quite obvious there), so by scaling back offensive capability, you can pick up the needed survivability and still provide some strong offensive pressure.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

Daecollo.9578:

So where is that sustain we were promised?

It’s over there with the equipment, utility skills, and traits you refuse to utilize.

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

So where is that sustain we were promised?

It’s over there with the equipment, utility skills, and traits you refuse to utilize.

I do utilize them, I just don’t see the sustain still.

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

You’re never going to gain credibility with exaggerations like that.

I could probably go fight someone in PvP with balanced weapons and no traits and do more than 0 damage like you seem to suggest I would.

Daecollo.9578:

Its more like this. All we can do to get more sustain is get more toughness, which really doesn’t matter after you get 2800…

…like how Melandru Runes + Lemongrass and Dogged March can turn all chills into 0 sec conditions?

:)

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

You’re never going to gain credibility with exaggerations like that.

I could probably go fight someone in PvP with balanced weapons and no traits and do more than 0 damage like you seem to suggest I would.

Nothing has changed in the past weeks, we just received some unreliable condition removal and we have the same crappy heals as before.

Sorry but your argument is pointless because we have already talked about how bad the heals are.

Take a look at the last SOTG.

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

So where is that sustain we were promised?

It’s over there with the equipment, utility skills, and traits you refuse to utilize.

I do utilize them, I just don’t see the sustain still.

Yeah? Post your build. I’m very interested to see what weapons, armor, utility skills, and traits you run.

And be honest. Don’t tell us you’re 0/0/30/30/10 full sentinel’s armor with a mace/shield and Shake it Off, Balanced Stance, and Endure Pain when you’re actually running 30/30/0/0/10 full berserker’s armor with a greatsword and Bulls’ Charge, Frenzy, and For Great Justice.

The problem is in the design of the warrior. The warrior is designed around the idea of burst skills. Therefore, the warrior cannot have both the burst skills and the sustainability (or the warrior would be OP), despite the fact that the warrior’s burst skills can be easily dodged by some experienced and skilled players.

Sad to say it, but…. unless something is changed in depth in the warrior design, I’m afraid the warrior will remain at the bottom of the food chain for a quite a long time. And to be honest I don’t have any solution, either.

May be Anet should dig into the direction of a much better endurance regeneration. I mean a very high regeneration rate very specific to the warrior, so he can dodge more, really more. When the warrior dodges, he can’t use his burst skills, can he ?

The thieves have the stealth and the mobility; the guardians have the regeneration and the protection; the warriors would have a good dodge rate.

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

So where is that sustain we were promised?

It’s over there with the equipment, utility skills, and traits you refuse to utilize.

I do utilize them, I just don’t see the sustain still.

Yeah? Post your build. I’m very interested to see what weapons, armor, utility skills, and traits you run.

And be honest. Don’t tell us you’re 0/0/30/30/10 full sentinel’s armor with a mace/shield and Shake it Off, Balanced Stance, and Endure Pain when you’re actually running 30/30/0/0/10 full berserker’s armor with a greatsword and Bulls’ Charge, Frenzy, and For Great Justice.

0/0/30/10/30 using Knights/Cavalier’s Ascended Gear (all pieces.). I have 3400 armor and I should have tons of unreliable condition removal.

I am not a full berserker, none of my pieces are berserker. I use Hammer + Sword/Axe.

I have plenty of healing power.

Now please stop arguing with me, the SOTG for GW stated that our healing abilities were sub-par and our sustain would be increased substancially, it is simply nothing compared to what other classes recieve.

Since they all wanted to change the “take a warrior, instead of X(insert random class) in dungeons”, I say we start spamming in front of every dungeon:
“LFM 4 more warriors, not accepting anything else, #yoloanet”.

We might as well just quit playing warrior – pve/wvwvw/pvp at ALL. So that the warrior population drops to 5%. Then they`ll need to either remove the class, since it is non-existent or finally put some THINKING into it and fix the darn class.
^ ^ ^ ^
cough Paragon, Guild Wars 1 cough
cough Paragon, Guild Wars 1 cough
cough Paragon, Guild Wars 1 cough
cough Paragon, Guild Wars 1 cough
cough Paragon, Guild Wars 1 cough
Just some… RIOT thoughts in my head.

Lyonell.1753:

I been testing builds around in spvp all day, did clerics, switched weapons and traits around and found nothing viable. Healing power doesn’t scale well enough on warriors like it does on rangers for example. This is because rangers got far more sources of regen and ticks healing. Thus if I have 4 regens ticking +35 because of high healing power. thats a total of 140 additional health per tick. If you add that to trolls which heals around 1.7k per tick on a healing power build you get about 1.9k per tick on a low cool down that keeps you alive due to massive evades and access to protection. Not to mention high armor.

Well, what 4 ticks or regen?

So there’s Signet of the Wild for 62 HP/sec, with 1500 HP, that’s bumped up to 152 HP/sec and costs a utility slot. Can’t count Spirit of Nature as that’s an elite and has a long cooldown. There’s nature’s healing for 133 HP/sec but where are the other two tics?

There is no way to get Troll Unguent to heal 1.7k per tic. It heals for 855 on a 0.12 scale. At 1500 HP, that’s 1035 HP/sec.

While I do think the idea behind Ranger was a less damage/more sustain Warrior type, you’re overstating Ranger sustain. They don’t heal as much as you think but they do have other mechanics built into their pet and weapons that mitigate damage.

However, by you guys’ own definition, evades and condition transfer isn’t “sustain”, only healing and regen is.

On a warrior a fully cleric geared and healing oriented gems bla bla bla bla gets healing signet ticks around let’s be generous and say 300…our regeneration trait gives us another 400 every 3 seconds. that’s 700 every 3 seconds and 300 “actually a lot less” every second. Now I use MY ALL MIGHTY BURST HEAL. And heal for 3.7k…without poison but my healing signet passive is gone. There is no protection to reduce incoming damage and no aegis to deflect it.

Again to get those unrealistically high numbers above you sacrificed all your damage, chance to crit and most of your utilities and possible builds. Now you sustain yourself less than any other class, bring less to the table than all other classes and still can’t kill anything. Congrats you got a broken useless class!

Well, we could actually try to calculate it….what’s the scale on healing signet, for starters?

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

You’re never going to gain credibility with exaggerations like that.

I could probably go fight someone in PvP with balanced weapons and no traits and do more than 0 damage like you seem to suggest I would.

Nothing has changed in the past weeks, we just received some unreliable condition removal and we have the same crappy heals as before.

Sorry but your argument is pointless because we have already talked about how bad the heals are.

Take a look at the last SOTG.

Did they touch on how Lemongrass was overpowered which was proven by its price on the TP? And how it doesn’t compare to Rare Veggie Pizza?

Daecollo.9578:

docMed.7692:

Daecollo.9578:

docMed.7692:

I run a very balanced wvw build that is viable (and I use it) in 300-400+ tpvp. Figure out a way to work quick breathing (Warhorn reduction and condi conversion) into your build and you’ll find some pretty good survivability regarding conditions. There are a multitude of good builds out there for WvW, sadly for pvp it is extremely limited and even then they are only slightly comprable. I build my warrior for tpvp like I do a roaming/support ele and find that it is quite good for this role (team support, survivability and offensive pressure). The warrior is by no means though a thief/engi style class with high amounts of burst and also the means of escapaing/surviving pressure easily. So yes, if you want to play your warrior with a ton of high dps in tpvp, you will get crushed.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

More; don’t run super offensive dps builds and expect to do well like a thief/trap ranger/condi engi can do. They do be default however, have a much higher overall dps ability (i.e. look at pve, it’s quite obvious there), so by scaling back offensive capability, you can pick up the needed survivability and still provide some strong offensive pressure.

So basicly: Don’t play a warrior in TPVP. Got it

Basically*

And I didn’t say that anywhere. Close minded individuals that QQ are my favorite, please continue.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

You’re never going to gain credibility with exaggerations like that.

I could probably go fight someone in PvP with balanced weapons and no traits and do more than 0 damage like you seem to suggest I would.

Nothing has changed in the past weeks, we just received some unreliable condition removal and we have the same crappy heals as before.

Sorry but your argument is pointless because we have already talked about how bad the heals are.

Take a look at the last SOTG.

Did they touch on how Lemongrass was overpowered which was proven by its price on the TP? And how it doesn’t compare to Rare Veggie Pizza?

I’m sorry, but items don’t go to balance. Guardians can use that as well.

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, but they also get to keep some damage, while we have none…

You’re never going to gain credibility with exaggerations like that.

I could probably go fight someone in PvP with balanced weapons and no traits and do more than 0 damage like you seem to suggest I would.

Nothing has changed in the past weeks, we just received some unreliable condition removal and we have the same crappy heals as before.

Sorry but your argument is pointless because we have already talked about how bad the heals are.

Take a look at the last SOTG.

Did they touch on how Lemongrass was overpowered which was proven by its price on the TP? And how it doesn’t compare to Rare Veggie Pizza?

I’m sorry, but items don’t go to balance. Guardians can use that as well.

But surely this issue impacts a huge portion of the game…I mean, you made like half a dozen threads about it so it must be true along with all the other balance issues you so painstakingly tested and confirmed.

Thus your issues with Warriors and armor in general are completely valid, yes?

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

darkace.8925:

Daecollo.9578:

So where is that sustain we were promised?

It’s over there with the equipment, utility skills, and traits you refuse to utilize.

I do utilize them, I just don’t see the sustain still.

Yeah? Post your build. I’m very interested to see what weapons, armor, utility skills, and traits you run.

And be honest. Don’t tell us you’re 0/0/30/30/10 full sentinel’s armor with a mace/shield and Shake it Off, Balanced Stance, and Endure Pain when you’re actually running 30/30/0/0/10 full berserker’s armor with a greatsword and Bulls’ Charge, Frenzy, and For Great Justice.

0/0/30/10/30 using Knights/Cavalier’s Ascended Gear (all pieces.). I have 3400 armor and I should have tons of unreliable condition removal.

I am *not* a full berserker, none of my pieces are berserker. I use Hammer + Sword/Axe.

I have plenty of healing power.

Now please stop arguing with me, the SOTG for GW stated that our healing abilities were sub-par and our sustain would be increased substancially, it is simply nothing compared to what other classes recieve.

Would love a screen shot. Where do you get "plenty of healing power" when you’re knights/cavalier?

Show me yours and I’ll show you mine..

Going to play my guardian, tired of arguing and proving others wrong, Leo-GG/QQ you win.

I just wish I could class change and get my 5 ascended pieces I wasted on my warrior.

Daecollo.9578:

Going to play my guardian, tired of arguing and proving others wrong, GG you win.

The only thing you’ve proven is that you’re prone to hyperbole.

Daecollo.9578:

Going to play my guardian, tired of arguing and proving others wrong, Leo-GG/QQ you win.

I just wish I could class change and get my 5 ascended pieces I wasted on my warrior.

It’s a bittersweet victory.

The thing I dislike is, with the whole Lemongrass ordeal, you crusaded how OP it was and how it trumps Pizza with no basis of information.

Someone else had to come out and test it, wasted their time just to bring TRUE information to everyone.

You didn’t apologize for spreading false information. You didn’t thank the person who spent their time testing. You didn’t even admit your claims weren’t correct. You still do not outwardly state when your basis of comparison for class balance is based on assumption or second-hand information.

So the only thing to ever be expected is for Daecollo to stop talking? Frankly, no one wins here because no one’s competing. It’s just people bad mouthing crap with no basis of information to prop up their claims….

…then all the hyperbole marches through and it all goes to kitten. Hardly productive.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Going to play my guardian, tired of arguing and proving others wrong, Leo-GG/QQ you win.

I just wish I could class change and get my 5 ascended pieces I wasted on my warrior.

It’s a bittersweet victory.

The thing I dislike is, with the whole Lemongrass ordeal, you crusaded how OP it was and how it trumps Pizza with no basis of information.

Someone else had to come out and test it, wasted their time just to bring TRUE information to everyone.

You didn’t apologize for spreading false information. You didn’t thank the person who spent their time testing. You didn’t even admit your claims weren’t correct. You still do not outwardly state when your basis of comparison for class balance is based on assumption or second-hand information.

So the only thing to ever be expected is for Daecollo to stop talking? Frankly, no one wins here because no one’s competing. It’s just people bad mouthing crap with no basis of information to prop up their claims….

…then all the hyperbole marches through and it all goes to kitten. Hardly productive.

/slow clap

No one has ever won an argument against Daecollo because he always just throws exaggerated information back at you or compares Warrior to another class. It’s amazing how he can make thread after thread and post after post about how bad Warrior is and he hates every buff and quality of life improvement they get, yet he still plays Warrior and keeps posting. He doesn’t seem to grasp the difference between a Warrior and Guardian; he wants them to be straight up equal. He wants Warriors to be as tanky as Guardians. Why do people bother responding or arguing with him anymore?

I find great sustain from warhorn. Traited you’re popping it often, removing movement skills and any other condition, as well as granting swiftness, other skill gives vigor and weakens the enemy, both increasing survivability. The converting conditions is great too. Vulnerability, one off the most common conditions out there, changes to protection. Pick any mainhand that suits then.

Plus from the traitline you’ve got some extra health which is always handy.

Wuflric Glacius.2078:

Plus from the traitline you’ve got some extra health which is always handy.

That’s actually one of the least handy things in sustain. An extra bit of hp is just another hit in a fight, it means less and less the longer a fight lasts.

Hes right, having more HP means crap in big team fights, it is who can avoid/out sustain those huge AOEs…

One more hit is one more bit of sustain. I have close to 30k health it all helps

Guys after reading the whole thread with every single post I must admit that i got a bit afraid to post a message here. But I see that all of you are experienced players not only in warrior class but almost all of them maybe all =)
I have a question that I’m not sure if I shall ask it in this thread but I am a casual player who likes to play GW2 and Warrior is my only character so far and haven’t played any other class as well. I intend to have fun for what I do in the game I run a couple of dungeons with Guildies spend time with friends etc.
To cut to the chase I want to ask any of you who can help me that what would you prefer to sacrifice : %15 overall damage with full adrenaline ? or %10 Crit damage ? I am running a fairly berserker warrior with Valkyrie stats as well to have a bit hp.
You don’t have to answer ofcourse but I appreciate any help.
Thank you so much and sorry to bother you guys.

Have Fun ALL!

Wolfbeil.6805:

Guys after reading the whole thread with every single post I must admit that i got a bit afraid to post a message here. But I see that all of you are experienced players not only in warrior class but almost all of them maybe all =)
I have a question that I’m not sure if I shall ask it in this thread but I am a casual player who likes to play GW2 and Warrior is my only character so far and haven’t played any other class as well. I intend to have fun for what I do in the game I run a couple of dungeons with Guildies spend time with friends etc.
To cut to the chase I want to ask any of you who can help me that what would you prefer to sacrifice : %15 overall damage with full adrenaline ? or %10 Crit damage ? I am running a fairly berserker warrior with Valkyrie stats as well to have a bit hp.
You don’t have to answer ofcourse but I appreciate any help.
Thank you so much and sorry to bother you guys.

Have Fun ALL!

15% damage will be better.

Power>prec>crit dmg

Also heigh focus is not crit dmg but crit chance

Soo…

I tried to ditch around with stats a bit:

with 1k healing power, our sustain is not high enough to make us play as a bunker.

655-755 HPS is nothing, even with vigor, dodges and condition removal. You are gonna get sliced up pretty fast.

So I was thinking: what about using heals over time in a non bunker build, as a side buff to our sustain?

I tried, and is almost unnoticeable unless you don’t play with longbow.

That may be the little dirty secret: you want to be sustainable? Don’t get hit. How not to get hit? First thing; go ranged.

So yeah, that way might end up finding some use for it, maybe. IMHO.

But the problem remains: you have to invest 30 points in tacticts. And at least 15 in defense. Putting something else elsewhere is kinda hard.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Wolfbeil.6805:

Guys after reading the whole thread with every single post I must admit that i got a bit afraid to post a message here. But I see that all of you are experienced players not only in warrior class but almost all of them maybe all =)
I have a question that I’m not sure if I shall ask it in this thread but I am a casual player who likes to play GW2 and Warrior is my only character so far and haven’t played any other class as well. I intend to have fun for what I do in the game I run a couple of dungeons with Guildies spend time with friends etc.
To cut to the chase I want to ask any of you who can help me that what would you prefer to sacrifice : %15 overall damage with full adrenaline ? or %10 Crit damage ? I am running a fairly berserker warrior with Valkyrie stats as well to have a bit hp.
You don’t have to answer ofcourse but I appreciate any help.
Thank you so much and sorry to bother you guys.

Have Fun ALL!

15% damage will be better.

Power>prec>crit dmg

Also heigh focus is not crit dmg but crit chance

Nonono I know but my build is sorry for not mentioning but Strength 30 / Arms 20 / Tactics 20 atm and when I go with this build because of the loss in 10 points Tactics I loose %10 crit damage that’s what I tried to mean.

Wuflric Glacius.2078:

One more hit is one more bit of sustain. I have close to 30k health it all helps

Having high HP is more of a defense versus “burst” survival not sustainability.

Sustain, in this context, is the ability to mitigate/avoid/recover from damage constantly.

For example, if you’re taking 1000 damage per second, but able to evade/mitigate/heal 1200 per second, you’re sustainable. Obviously this isnt quite as “smooth” in an actual fight, but if you average out the DPS and HPS you can establish a general trend.

If you’re taking 1000 damage per second, but only able to evade/mit/heal say, 350 per second, you’re not sustainable. You’ll be losing 650 HP/second, meaning you have a finite lifespan. A 20k HP warrior would last about 30 seconds before his HP pool is depleted. A 30k HP warrior would last about 46 seconds.

This is why so many warriors go berserkers build. See, a 20k hp warrior will last 30 seconds (1000 DPS, with 350 HP/s sustain). By sacrificing what little defense they have zerkers can massively increase damage. Now they may survive only 24 seconds (1000 DPS with 150 HP/s sustain) but the damage they can do during that time is roughly DOUBLE. I am not exaggerating when I say double, either.

Being a berzerker is even more critical versus other classes and builds with powerful sustain. The longer the battle goes on, the more their sustain plays in, and they gain the upper hand. The faster you output DPS and end the battle, the less time they have to recover, and the better your chances are to win.

Using the above (highly fudged) numbers:
30 seconds as a PTV warrior, dealing 1000 DPS, you’ll deal 30k damage in your lifespan, and give the opponent 30 seconds worth of utilizing their sustain.

24 seconds as a Zerk warrior, dealing almost double, say 1800 DPS, you’ll get 43.2k DPS, and give your opponent 24 seconds worth of using sustain.

You’re far more likely to win a 1v1 fight against a sustain class as a Zerker, than a PVT. And against a glass build, you’re on about even terms with either build really, it’ll come down to skill levels and who jumped who.

Now, Sustain does not need to mean OP self heals.
Yes, Guards and Ele’s often mitigate more directly, using protection and powerful self heals. But Thieves accomplish this by being invisible, and difficult to hit often. Mes’s use kiting vs melee, projectile walls, clones, invis, etc.

redslion.9675:

Soo…

I tried to ditch around with stats a bit:

with 1k healing power, our sustain is not high enough to make us play as a bunker.

655-755 HPS is nothing, even with vigor, dodges and condition removal. You are gonna get sliced up pretty fast.

So I was thinking: what about using heals over time in a non bunker build, as a side buff to our sustain?

I tried, and is almost unnoticeable unless you don’t play with longbow.

That may be the little dirty secret: you want to be sustainable? Don’t get hit. How not to get hit? First thing; go ranged.

So yeah, that way might end up finding some use for it, maybe. IMHO.

But the problem remains: you have to invest 30 points in tacticts. And at least 15 in defense. Putting something else elsewhere is kinda hard.

With 300 or 1500 Healing Power, we don’t really have any good heals to really make notice of that, and 750 HPS? That is like 1500 to other classes because we take so much more damage due to our complete lack of everything.

Regeneration is just better for other classes because they have less Health, more ways to avoid/decrease damage, so the heals even though lower are going to be a lot better and they have HIGHER healing… it doesn’t make any sense.

Incoming: Oh hes just spreading out lies/whining.

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon. Blinds removed this way give Fury and Quickness.

This way, it cures things before they happen because its converting boons as soon as you get a bar.

Bleeding=3s Regeneration.
Burning=3s Regeneration.
Chilled=3s Swiftness.
Confusion=3s Retaliation.
Crippled=3s Swiftness.
Immobilized=3s Swiftness.
Poison=3s Regeneration.
Vulnerability =3s Protection.
Weakness=3s Protection.
Blind=3s Fury and 3s of Quickness.

(I don’t know how often it will be, but Warriors really need protection and blind-hate, tbh.)

Daecollo.9578:

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon. Blinds removed this way give Fury and Quickness.

This way, it cures things before they happen because its converting boons as soon as you get a bar.

Bleeding=3s Regeneration.
Burning=3s Regeneration.
Chilled=3s Swiftness.
Confusion=3s Retaliation.
Crippled=3s Swiftness.
Immobilized=3s Swiftness.
Poison=3s Regeneration.
Vulnerability =3s Protection.
Weakness=3s Protection.
Blind=3s Fury and 3s of Quickness.

(I don’t know how often it will be, but Warriors really need protection and blind-hate, tbh.)

i really dislike the idea of passive defenseinstead like protection

i really prefer more reactive counters and mobility instead