Guild Wars 2

Why is it the new rage skills have a much shorter CD and do more damage then when you are traited for physical skills? Ive been playing around with bulls charge and stomp and these 2 skills do next to know damage when im using zerker amulet, rune of strength and have full adrenaline. Freaking rampage has a 144cd and it pulses 2 stability and last for 15 sec. Ive never been blinded so much and dazed for so long on a elite skill. Throw bolas gets me so much now, i use to use them for thieves back in the day. Now thieves just spam dodge and get threw it.

I saw the list, nerfing some of revs DPS instead of making the condi build better. Making core scepter more dps on ele. Trying to reach back with core guardian.

I would like to point out again that Anet you are not creating build diversity but a new meta. Before HOT you could play MM necro for 1 vs 1 for level play, power necro for mid level play and what ever the ESL players were using. Same thing for guardian, warrior, ele.

With S5 about to begin you have yet to address the problems with trait lines,utility and elite skills.

There’s always going to be a new meta when any new changes are introduced. There’s no avoiding that. When something gets buffed or something else gets nerfed it creates a shift that can move classes/builds up or down the tier list. It’ll change the viability of certain builds, making some new ones usable or making others complete garbage. This is typical with any PvP game in the history of ever.

you do realize that pre HOT warrior would run sword warhorn with long bow. running cele ammy with shouts as a support character. If you didnt like that you could run a greatsword hammer warrior for meta team fights running stances and rampage. Also small variations like mace-shield with greatsword being the apex of 1 vs 1.

Then there was off builds such as mace-shield with hammer as a condi build. with stomp-bulls charge 1 stance and your choice of elite skill. This was pre HOT.

Since HOT its been 1 rage utility skill both stances and head butt with defense-discipline- beserker. It doesnt matter if your condi or dps. You will pick these traits and skills to play at the highest level.

You wrote “There’s always going to be a new meta when any new changes are introduced” guess what nothing has changed since HOT came out.

Also many of the changes to PvP doesnt actually change the meta just the effectiveness of what it use to be. Upgrading the damage on scepter doesnt change the fact that its the best support in team play. Making guardian shouts shorter CD doesnt change the fact that boons are being handed out like candy in the back of a creepy mans van.

Your comment was very general and didnt actually say anything for the state of PvP and didnt address Anets ability to make things like throw bola useful in any way.

You should of just written, when it rains things are gonna get wet.

p sure it’s just a preview

My comment was meant to be in general because it’s a generalized statement. Yes, once upon a time, we had a plethora of viable builds (though in sPvP you only ever really saw Hambow and Shoutbow builds. Note the similarity between the two?). And since then a lot of our traits and more controlly abilities have been nerfed or changed out of viability, or something better came up. Another thing worth noting that was pre-HoT, defense and discipline trees were a staple with 90% of meta or even remotely viable warrior PvP builds. We had hoped HoT would of been nicer to us and get us away from those two as a staple, but it wasn’t the case, and here we are. You can still very easily use a Hambow build. Will it be great? Probably not. But nothing is stopping you from using it.

In recent weeks I’ve seen (and tested) various dual axe+random secondary set builds, both condi and power. And that’s without any changes having gone into place yet. The couple of weeks I ran dual axe I actually ended up having a blast and getting a lot more kills than expected, mostly due to the fact that nobody really expected that kind of build.

In any case, I don’t think a change to one or two abilities are going to be what puts warrior back in the glory days of our limelight. What change could they possibly give to Throw Bolas to make any sort of difference to us, let alone make it a pick over berserker stance, endure pain, outrage, or shattering blow? Make it land no matter the state of the target? With the amount of evades, blocks, invulns, condi clear (which is now a staple due to the condi meta), etc it’s simply not a viable pick.

You want to know what would make Warrior worth picking? Consistent condi clear, less animated burst skills that are insanely easy to avoid, the ability to stick to targets better, more consistent healing outside of AH and Healing Signet, and the possibility to provide decent party support via boons or the like, meaning buffs to shouts and/or warhorn. Do you see any of this happening? Because I sure don’t. Back to my original point. You cannot and will not have all classes being in the same tier of one another. It just doesn’t happen. Balance is a tricky as hell thing, and even games that are solely PvP based never get it quite right (Just talk to folks in League of Legends or Overwatch). In the next xpac something else will come along as the dominant class and the meta will shift in some way. Your choices are to follow the meta and succeed, or play the class you want and lower your chances (supposing it’s outside the meta). It’s up to you really.

And, for the record, warriors at the moment are in a fairly solid place I’ve found. I’ve found 2 currently viable builds that I’ve been more than successful with. (currently sitting on a 51.12% W/L) So practice up, the season is coming, changes are coming, and none of them care if you’re not ready or not participating in it.

Sazdek.6830:

My comment was meant to be in general because it’s a generalized statement. Yes, once upon a time, we had a plethora of viable builds (though in sPvP you only ever really saw Hambow and Shoutbow builds. Note the similarity between the two?). And since then a lot of our traits and more controlly abilities have been nerfed or changed out of viability, or something better came up. Another thing worth noting that was pre-HoT, defense and discipline trees were a staple with 90% of meta or even remotely viable warrior PvP builds. We had hoped HoT would of been nicer to us and get us away from those two as a staple, but it wasn’t the case, and here we are. You can still very easily use a Hambow build. Will it be great? Probably not. But nothing is stopping you from using it.

In recent weeks I’ve seen (and tested) various dual axe+random secondary set builds, both condi and power. And that’s without any changes having gone into place yet. The couple of weeks I ran dual axe I actually ended up having a blast and getting a lot more kills than expected, mostly due to the fact that nobody really expected that kind of build.

In any case, I don’t think a change to one or two abilities are going to be what puts warrior back in the glory days of our limelight. What change could they possibly give to Throw Bolas to make any sort of difference to us, let alone make it a pick over berserker stance, endure pain, outrage, or shattering blow? Make it land no matter the state of the target? With the amount of evades, blocks, invulns, condi clear (which is now a staple due to the condi meta), etc it’s simply not a viable pick.

You want to know what would make Warrior worth picking? Consistent condi clear, less animated burst skills that are insanely easy to avoid, the ability to stick to targets better, more consistent healing outside of AH and Healing Signet, and the possibility to provide decent party support via boons or the like, meaning buffs to shouts and/or warhorn. Do you see any of this happening? Because I sure don’t. Back to my original point. You cannot and will not have all classes being in the same tier of one another. It just doesn’t happen. Balance is a tricky as hell thing, and even games that are solely PvP based never get it quite right (Just talk to folks in League of Legends or Overwatch). In the next xpac something else will come along as the dominant class and the meta will shift in some way. Your choices are to follow the meta and succeed, or play the class you want and lower your chances (supposing it’s outside the meta). It’s up to you really.

And, for the record, warriors at the moment are in a fairly solid place I’ve found. I’ve found 2 currently viable builds that I’ve been more than successful with. (currently sitting on a 51.12% W/L) So practice up, the season is coming, changes are coming, and none of them care if you’re not ready or not participating in it.

Why is simply asking for these skills to be made better harder?

For instance throw obalas does what entangle does and roots them lets just say twice. Forces thieves to double double if they want out. Extend the cool down to 25 to make it something where you actually time it. Skill game play

Bulls charge and stomp have really high cd for what they do. Bulls charge when traited does less then 1k damage base which is less the the rage skills are in base form. When the rage skills have lower CD. Im asking for a simply change in DPS, which is that hard?

Or how about stomp being unblockable since it has a 40 cd. Too many times a random condi sneaks in and you dont break out and miss hitting everyone.

How about giving Lich form and rampage there 5 sec back and and giving more pulse of stability?

Yes balancing a game is hard but when you can clearly see the things that are not working you can fix it.

Also pre-HOT there was shout bow with tactics-defense discpline. There was DPS warrior with either mace-shield/hammer with greatsword that used power/defense/discpline. 1 build uses shouts and the other stances with physical skills.

A lesser build but we all saw it was the rifle warrior with arms- defense-discpline. Pre HOT there were builds where all 5 specs were used. Now its is 3/6 and yes most people can get a 50%.

I don’t understand the picture in relation to the thread topic.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I don’t understand the picture in relation to the thread topic.

I threw up the picture because of the last paragraph he wrote.

Saying i needed to practice and that the meta changes etc etc etc.

I just wanted to point out i have opinion on the state of the warrior only playing stances and other things should be changed for better build diversity.

The picture is so he cant call me a scrub nobody who needs to learn to play.

We can debate it or not but he/she started posturing at the end.

Lol, there wasn’t some subtle “git gud” or similar message to that. It was exactly as it appeared. I’m glad you’re doing well so far. To be honest, based on what I’ve seen in my ~30 ish matches this season so far, warriors are in a fairly ok place. I’d honestly go as far as to call us one of the more balanced classes in the game. We have power/condi/hybrid options. Full yolo, full tanky (still no bunker or support builds) are both viable. We can be beaten when counterplayed, but we can beat any class with tweaks to a build before a match starts (See >50% DH/mesmer/warrior? Signet of Might baby). Are we a perfect class? No, not even close. But I don’t think we need any major overhauls mid-season unless the meta shifts in some massively unfavorable way.

GL out there.

kdaddy.5431:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I don’t understand the picture in relation to the thread topic.

I threw up the picture because of the last paragraph he wrote.

Saying i needed to practice and that the meta changes etc etc etc.

I just wanted to point out i have opinion on the state of the warrior only playing stances and other things should be changed for better build diversity.

The picture is so he cant call me a scrub nobody who needs to learn to play.

We can debate it or not but he/she started posturing at the end.

Ah ok. I been on my stance warrior still, and I have actually been able to out pressure some standard staff rangers. I have been very surprised. I guess the small cd nerfs they got made a large enough difference.

Rangers got nerfs? I thought they weren’t touched with the patch.

Sazdek.6830:

Lol, there wasn’t some subtle “git gud” or similar message to that. It was exactly as it appeared. I’m glad you’re doing well so far. To be honest, based on what I’ve seen in my ~30 ish matches this season so far, warriors are in a fairly ok place. I’d honestly go as far as to call us one of the more balanced classes in the game. We have power/condi/hybrid options. Full yolo, full tanky (still no bunker or support builds) are both viable. We can be beaten when counterplayed, but we can beat any class with tweaks to a build before a match starts (See >50% DH/mesmer/warrior? Signet of Might baby). Are we a perfect class? No, not even close. But I don’t think we need any major overhauls mid-season unless the meta shifts in some massively unfavorable way.

GL out there.

Alright, i take a step back. I thought you were starting to challenge me on the bases of get gud.

I agree warrior is in a good place when it comes to healing signet, 2 stances and headbutt.

Thats fine but i want to be able to use some other skills. I dont want OP skills i simply want to play other things.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

kdaddy.5431:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I don’t understand the picture in relation to the thread topic.

I threw up the picture because of the last paragraph he wrote.

Saying i needed to practice and that the meta changes etc etc etc.

I just wanted to point out i have opinion on the state of the warrior only playing stances and other things should be changed for better build diversity.

The picture is so he cant call me a scrub nobody who needs to learn to play.

We can debate it or not but he/she started posturing at the end.

Ah ok. I been on my stance warrior still, and I have actually been able to out pressure some standard staff rangers. I have been very surprised. I guess the small cd nerfs they got made a large enough difference.

LOL awesome, i was in a 1 vs 1 vs what seemed to be a healing druid and he slowly beat me. We had to be fighting for over a 60 sec because i think i was able to use my stances twice.

IMO condi warrior in PvP is the better version and i simply havent wanted to play condi. So maybe its me swinging and missing at the curve.

anet too scared to buff things that are useless/obsolete. Cause they risk potentially making something ‘new’, that other classes haven’t had to fight against, too useful or powerful in some way.

People can kill warriors and they aren’t the top of the top….. so no changes is the best way to keep a sense of balance

Cerby.1069:

anet too scared to buff things that are useless/obsolete. Cause they risk potentially making something ‘new’, that other classes haven’t had to fight against, too useful or powerful in some way.

People can kill warriors and they aren’t the top of the top….. so no changes is the best way to keep a sense of balance

Ok i guess, you just have EU player named lord helseth calling warrior a trash class.

I mean nothing better then being the worst class season 1-2 and potentially S5.

I find that for the most part, our matchups are pretty good right now. Using the power warrior, my worse matchups right now are DH and rev, and this proc necro if played by a good player.

I am trying to work out an anti DH melee power build. I think I want to use the arms line for this potentially. If I get it where I want it to be, I will post it out.

kdaddy.5431:

Cerby.1069:

anet too scared to buff things that are useless/obsolete. Cause they risk potentially making something ‘new’, that other classes haven’t had to fight against, too useful or powerful in some way.

People can kill warriors and they aren’t the top of the top….. so no changes is the best way to keep a sense of balance

Ok i guess, you just have EU player named lord helseth calling warrior a trash class.

I mean nothing better then being the worst class season 1-2 and potentially S5.

um, okay…sure.

Warrior by design has always been a solo kind of class. So I get it, with our current insane sustain, why people would call them trash classes for pvp. I mean we do our own thing, and we have the sustain to do it. So frustrated players who don’t have proper teammtes will go off on their own as warriors and try to do everything on their own. Which is great, but it just has limitations given how warriors fight. So an organized buff sharing crew of 5 is gonna beat a team with warriors on it generally.

So he’s calling the profession trash on the basis that it is selfish. Whereas the other classes spend alot of their builds buffing teammates, warrior spends it all on themselves and then complains when they don’t win blaming others for not being as amazing as they are incombat (cause thats what people who solo que ranked do in pvp)

We don’t provide much to our teammates though so….really warriors don’t have a place when it comes to standing in circles in a 5v5 pvp fight.

Cerby.1069:

kdaddy.5431:

Cerby.1069:

anet too scared to buff things that are useless/obsolete. Cause they risk potentially making something ‘new’, that other classes haven’t had to fight against, too useful or powerful in some way.

People can kill warriors and they aren’t the top of the top….. so no changes is the best way to keep a sense of balance

Ok i guess, you just have EU player named lord helseth calling warrior a trash class.

I mean nothing better then being the worst class season 1-2 and potentially S5.

um, okay…sure.

Warrior by design has always been a solo kind of class. So I get it, with our current insane sustain, why people would call them trash classes for pvp. I mean we do our own thing, and we have the sustain to do it. So frustrated players who don’t have proper teammtes will go off on their own as warriors and try to do everything on their own. Which is great, but it just has limitations given how warriors fight. So an organized buff sharing crew of 5 is gonna beat a team with warriors on it generally.

So he’s calling the profession trash on the basis that it is selfish. Whereas the other classes spend alot of their builds buffing teammates, warrior spends it all on themselves and then complains when they don’t win blaming others for not being as amazing as they are incombat (cause thats what people who solo que ranked do in pvp)

We don’t provide much to our teammates though so….really warriors don’t have a place when it comes to standing in circles in a 5v5 pvp fight.

No he calls it trash because at the highest levels warrior isnt top 3 at anything.

You are right warrior is a selfish class atm but it wasnt always with shoutbow.

In 1 vs 1 warrior is probably the 3rd best option for it. With mesmers/revs/DH,rangers being in the class of warrior.

Then you talk team fights and it goes to the bottom. I mean every class in the game atm brings more to the table then warrior in the 5 vs 5 scene.

The only people who call warrior Op at anything are people who are probably new to the game or dont face warriors. It can be frustrating but every class in the game has alot of passives now. Warriors passives are weaker because they can be countered.

There is no counter to distortion. So at the highest levels of play warrior is not a top player anywhere and its a selfish build.

You ever que with PZ they always call someone on the team trash. It’s annoying when they think they’re great but still get hit by pubstomps. Some PZ guy went after our warrior during a match and the enemy team intervened in chat saying the warrior was doing fine, it was PZ who needed to play with the team.

Gwaihir.1745:

You ever que with PZ they always call someone on the team trash. It’s annoying when they think they’re great but still get hit by pubstomps. Some PZ guy went after our warrior during a match and the enemy team intervened in chat saying the warrior was doing fine, it was PZ who needed to play with the team.

ohhh no im not saying they are always right. Or that they are that much better to know so much more because they do not.

But i agree from a 5 vs 5 stand point. Warrior has no real identity since it isnt top 3 at anything.

For solo/duo que sure its a great and you can still out perform people by being better. With that said though, there is so much boom spam, Aoe heals and condi cleanses. We both know that when a warrior has to take stances to just be viable it wont out last the current healing of these other classes.