Guild Wars 2

The trait “Death From Above” is not particularly viable as a combat trait.
Halving your fall damage only benefits you when an enemy knocks you off of a ledge and you fall, and in most cases, I find myself using DFA for exploration, goofing off, and general non-combat stuff.
Damaging and Launching foes when you take fall damage is satisfying when you can pull it off, but the fact is that it requires you to walk around more to get up to an elevated position to use it, and even then, you really only get to use it once in any fight, and that’s at the very beginning of the fight, which is not a particularly tactical time to launch enemies.

So as far as actual combat goes, you either won’t use it at all in a fight, or you’ll use it just once at the very beginning. This makes it very inferior to other strength traits in my opinion.

I’m not sure how it works in PvP, since I’m almost always in PvE, but in PvE it seems more like a gag trait than anything else.

Some suggestions on how to improve it:

Option A) Give leap skills a percent-chance to trigger the launch effect. For example, if I use Savage Leap with Death From Above on, I have a 25% chance to damage and launch nearby foes (or at least my target).

Option B) Add a boon to the fall effect. For example, when taking fall damage, you damage and launch nearby foes and gain 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds. This will make the initial “crash” at the beginning of combat a little more rewarding.

Option C) Add a percent-chance for the launch effect to trigger when you are knocked down or launched by an enemy. For example, if an enemy splats me to the ground with a hammer, I have a 10% chance to launch them. This is more like a “death from below” thing, though, so it doesn’t really make sense :P

Option D) Add a constant damage bonus vs knocked-down foes. For example, 10% bonus damage vs knocked down foes. This will synergize very well with the trait’s effects when it launches, and will also allow a passive bonus that is more sustainable for characters using knockdown builds.

Option E) Make the fall damage grant adrenaline. Example: Whenever you take fall damage, the damage is halved and you launch nearby foes while gaining 10 strikes of adrenaline (that’s 1/3 the bar, right?).

Anyway. There’s a few ideas to consider. A minor change or buff to make the trait slightly more viable in sustained combat would be good, I think. Right now, if given the choice between DFA and say, “Berserker’s Power”, the choice is pretty clear.

Thoughts?

It’s a mobility thing. It’s 100% worthless in sPvP, of course. It’s almost essential in WvW, as you’ll be able to completely circumvent some roads by falling where others would die. Same in PvE. It also has some hilarious results when sneak attacking people from above.

Again, it’s more something you use in between fights for ignoring terrain and getting places by “cheating.” The Strength line is full of worthless or otherwise boring traits. It’s the min-max line.

That’s what my problem is with it. The halved fall damage is really the only part of the trait that has much use, and that use is almost exclusively out of combat. A minor buff to give it at least some viability in a fight would help the balance I think.

But you’re right; it’s definitely a hilarious trait when you finally get a chance to use it. It’s fun, but not especially effective.

I don’t understand why every single trait has to have grave importance. I can’t wait to pick this up to jump on top of gate assaults in WvWvW.

It has its purpose, and really, it doesn’t seem like fixing this would address any of the concerns many people have for the class.

You should try it when defending against a WvW siege, it’s quite good in that situation for jumping off the wall onto the guys either sieging the door, or in the vicinity of the walls. It can cause a lot of chaos, and is great if you can coordinate taking advantage of the AOE knockback with someone else. You don’t have to keep the trait all the time, and I don’t; I swap another trait in there when I am no longer in that situation.

@Cogbryn:
I never said it (or that all traits for that matter) had to have grave importance, just that it’s not viable in sustained combat, and that it should have some function for use in an actual fight. As for fixing ‘many people’s concerns with the class’, their concerns are theirs, not mine; I’m talking about one specific trait as it compares to other traits in the same trait line at the same tier, not trying to “fix” the whole class.

@Vain:
WvW seems to be the only place that there’s much use for this trait (at least the trigger effect). I don’t think that should be the case. And you do actually have to keep the trait on the whole time that you’re in combat. You can only change it once you’re outside of combat. My whole point is that the trait is nearly functionless while in combat, and it shouldn’t be. Even if the function is fairly minor, it should be present longer than just at the start of the fight. All the other tier 1 strength traits can give some benefit throughout a sustained fight. To try and get DFA to do the same requires overcompensation to try and ‘force’ it to be viable.

I feel as though it’s mandatory for WvW, and was useful while leveling.

It seems alot of people overlook the knockback effect. It’s most useful for harassing guys clustered in front of your keep (I use mainhand sword’s leap to facilitate this), but I’ve also used it to create distance between a low health ally and the enemy chasing them (in both PvE and WvW).

Though it’s the reduced fall damage that’s mandatory. It’s saved me in more than a few instances of making a hasty retreat, and would have done so again last night if the guy who dropped down after me actually rendered before he killed me instead of after.

It’s free AoE CC from an adept trait, and one of only two good “impact” effects, and you want it buffed? If anything, every other “fall” trait except the theif’s needs a buff. If you want something that affects more of the fight, there’s plenty of other traits that can do that.

@Haette
It’s CC is pretty much only ever used once per fight, and you’re at the mercy of the terrain to even get an opportunity to use it in the first place. Once that initial CC is used, you’re effectively left with an empty trait slot until the battle is over. It’s barely applicable anywhere outside of WvW, and in PvE it’s pretty much only used for exploration.

As for “plenty of other traits that do that”, that’s exactly my point; DFA is inferior to every other Tier 1 strength trait in sustained combat. I don’t think that should be the case for any trait. Giving it some minor form of long-term combat flexibility is all it would take to expand its number of applicable situations.

As it stands now, if you have DFA slotted and find yourself in a fight that lasts more than a minute, you’re sub-optimal because it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll have an opportunity for its effects to trigger again. So there should either be some more controllable effect that can play a role in extended combat, or the benefits of that single-use spike-launch should be slightly more rewarding. This should at least be the case in PvE, since that’s where the trait’s design seems to have the fewest benefits.

If you have Short Temper slotted, you get absolutely nothing against classes that don’t have a block or who aren’t specced into blocking.

If you want PvE optimization, you take Berserker’s Power and call it a day. Or you take Powerful Banners to plant in AoE. If you’re concerned about condition removal in something like sPvP, you take Restorative Strength. If you want to be able to dive around in sPvP or WvWvW and take less damage/potentially set up a knockback, you go Death From Above.

Every decision you make in this game makes you sub-optimal in one category or another. You pick and choose what you want based on your playstyle. I go Restorative Strength in sPvP, Death From Above in WvWvW, and Berserker’s Rage in PvE.

Death From Above is part of your tool kit. You use it when it’s needed, and have it handy when it isn’t. The trait is about preparing yourself for certain situations so you can use those situations to your advantage.

I have no idea why you’re fighting so hard to convince anyone that DFA needs to be changed in any way.

Go to the jump puzzle in WvW. Go up to the area above the very first ledge you go onto. When someone walks onto the ledge jump down and knock them off of the ledge.

Cogbyrn.7283:

If you have Short Temper slotted, you get absolutely nothing against classes that don’t have a block or who aren’t specced into blocking.

If you want PvE optimization, you take Berserker’s Power and call it a day. Or you take Powerful Banners to plant in AoE. If you’re concerned about condition removal in something like sPvP, you take Restorative Strength. If you want to be able to dive around in sPvP or WvWvW and take less damage/potentially set up a knockback, you go Death From Above.

Every decision you make in this game makes you sub-optimal in one category or another. You pick and choose what you want based on your playstyle. I go Restorative Strength in sPvP, Death From Above in WvWvW, and Berserker’s Rage in PvE.

Death From Above is part of your tool kit. You use it when it’s needed, and have it handy when it isn’t. The trait is about preparing yourself for certain situations so you can use those situations to your advantage.

I have no idea why you’re fighting so hard to convince anyone that DFA needs to be changed in any way.

The point is that DFA has too few applications, and in the limited circumstances where it’s applicable, it doesn’t lend enough benefit in comparison to another trait. All those traits can be used in sub-optimal conditions to at least lend some benefit during a sustained fight. DFA cannot.

The knockback from DFA shows that there’s an intended use for it in combat. But that intended use is one-shot only, and any attempt to make it multi-use in a fight requires you to take yourself out of the fight to get back to a place where you can use it, making you even less effective. This makes it counterintuitive in its design, and a high-maintenance/low-payoff utility.

As far as short temper goes, it’s also limited in where its functional, but it’s easier to control it when it does have a function, and it’s not as limited as DFA. If you’re in PvE and you know there are no blockers, you just don’t slot it. If you know what enemies block and which ones don’t, you slot it and use target selection to optimize it. In WvW, the math is on your side; if you have more than a few enemies on the screen, it’s very likely that at least a couple of them will be able to apply blocks to themselves or even to all their nearby allies. In those circumstances you can control its mechanics from within combat, and for a sustained fight. The difference between the two is one requires overly specific circumstances to be rendered useless, whereas one requires overly specific circumstances to be rendered useful, and even in those circumstances, it’s barely more useful than another trait. One poorly timed jump or run-in with someone who has stability, and your trait slot is completely empty, and stays that way. With the other traits if you make a mistake or are countered, they can be used again.

Mallis.4295:

Go to the jump puzzle in WvW. Go up to the area above the very first ledge you go onto. When someone walks onto the ledge jump down and knock them off of the ledge.

This doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m talking about.
The subject isn’t “there are no places anywhere in the game where you can use DFA for anything, not even a laugh”.
It’s “DFA’s counterintuitive design limits its potential uses in combat, and it’s inferior to other traits in a sustained fight. Giving it some minor role in sustained combat would improve it.”

It triggers multiple blast finishers. Have someone drop a water field on a slope for a slip and slide effect.

I think its a cool trait.. maybe if it gave you +toughness or something as passive or + extra state.. it would solve the problem.

OR instead of making it trigger on fall damage.. maybe make it so that any time you come down? IE Sword Leap, or Hammer Burst… Eviserate? etc.. might make it op but that would be sweet.

I guess it depends on what/where/how you play.

I use it, and it makes a big difference. I literally get the drop on people (pun intended).

Normally I’m running Rifle+s/w in WvW. So i’ll position myself on a ledge. I’m always running solo/duo picking small man fights.

I’ve had a couple scenario’s where I believe DFA made all the difference.

Had a buddy down below me with 2 people killing him, he went into the downed state and they both start the finisher. As soon as he went down I pounced down on them, knocking them off and interrupting. It gave me enough time to get him back up and one of the guys was already low health so we focused him. Ended up killing the first, and 2nd ran away.

Also i’ll try and knock enemies off the ledges with rifle #5, then follow them down for added dps and knockback. use tactics lvl 1 immob on cripple, so #2 rifle immobilizes long enough for me to #5 them off the ledge normally.

It all depends on how you play, if you set yourself up to use it, it can be incredible. If you don’t set yourself up, it IS pointless.

It doesn’t just dps, but also knocks back, which is just 2-3 more seconds of no dps to you, and more dps to them. It’s all about not taking dps.

I switch to it during keep defense for some fun times, otherwise I just keep berserker’s power out (since I run gs/rifle in WvW and gs burst is kind of worthless at full adrenaline).

I agree with the OP. The trait is more for goofing off and fun than practical use. Yes, it has a potential yet very limited use in PvP. But to me it simply isn’t worth the required trait investment, risk, and time to get set up and in position to fire it off. :/

Yes, it would be nice if it were a little more useful. But on the other hand, I do LOVE the funny/fun side of this for PvE. Nothing beats seeing someone fall next to you, make a crater on impact, stand up, dust off, shout ‘I meant to do that’ and run off.

Maybe do what they did in Guild Wars 1, and have DFA work differently in PvE and PvP:

- PvE: Fall damage reduction and knockback with no damage to enemies.
- PvP: Fall damage reduction, knockback & either daze OR criple nearby enemies for 3s + give you adrenaline or something as a boon for 5s.

I think this would be a ‘best of both’ solution and make it really make the reward for using it worth the risk/investment in the trait slot.

It’s worth it for the damage reduction alone. That you get a free launch with it is just the icing on the cake.

IMO one of the few Warrior traits that doesn’t need adjusting in any way.