Guild Wars 2

Trying to get more damage on my tank build I want to go 30 into strength or disciple for the 15% damage or crit chance traits respectively. I will likely change to full zerker trinkets to help damage as well.

With the strength line the total damage increase would include 300 power, 20% damage increase (dual wielding and zerkers power).

With full discipline the damage increase would include 15% crit chance, 30% crit damage, and good use of fast hands with upcoming sigil changes (4 on swap sigils every cool down).

I’m wondering if the discipline line and higher crits would out damage the total damage increase of the strength line. Thanks in advance and feel free to include and handy traits or combos not mentioned above.

I would just put your build in http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ and try out both traits. See which one gives you the highest effective power.

Discipline is always better. Remember that the banners affect everyone, not just you, and you’re running a build that doesn’t benefit from Discipline you’re probably not doing any damage anyway. Better to drop the banner that is best for the damage dealers in your party.

Run 2 warriors in a party then you don’t have to ask.

Warlord.9074:

Run 2 warriors in a party then you don’t have to ask.

Pug warriors always drop Strength for some reason so Discipline is still the better choice. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pug warrior drop Discipline unless I specifically asked him to.

I assume he means the traits Strenght and Arms rather than the banners judging from his posts talking about traits. I’d recommend trying out both ofcourse, but from experience if going exclusively Arms or Strenght, Strengt over-all has the better traits, it offers a lot of down-right damage increasers for multiple weapon sets, where-as Arms have a lot on-crit proc effects and critical chance increasers, which are great, but without enough percision in gear it will likely slack behind. Like Julie said, build your ideas in http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/ or test them in Heart of the Mist.

Fast hands is already strong, but mind you, I’m quite sure they said 2-handed weapons would get 2 sigil slots instead of 1 to be on par with a mainhand + offhand combination, not that they’d add 1 to weapon. So 4 on-swap sigils seems unlikely. Still a worthy minor-trait to have, I make a lot of use of it with Sigils of Battle on my Axe/?? set, combined with a GS of Force.

If somehow I did misunderstood, yes Banner of Discipline is a lot better for damage increase; 15% critical damage is just epic (zerkers tend to aim close to 100% critical chance) where-as 170 Percision is more or less on par with 170 Power, depending on how people min-maxed their gear on top of that 170 Power/Condition damage usually only gets used for 60% (people tend to run power OR condition builds)

Obviously people would counter Condition builds hardly benefit from the 15% critical damage increase, how-ever a party with more than 1 condition specced person is already gimping itself, your banner-choice won’t matter.

Heta.8629:

Trying to get more damage on my tank build I want to go 30 into strength or disciple for the 15% damage or crit chance traits respectively. I will likely change to full zerker trinkets to help damage as well.

With the strength line the total damage increase would include 300 power, 20% damage increase (dual wielding and zerkers power).

With full discipline the damage increase would include 15% crit chance, 30% crit damage, and good use of fast hands with upcoming sigil changes (4 on swap sigils every cool down).

I’m wondering if the discipline line and higher crits would out damage the total damage increase of the strength line. Thanks in advance and feel free to include and handy traits or combos not mentioned above.

power trait line with out a doubt allow me to explain something kinda basic.

power increase over all dps
pre increases crit chance
crit =50% bonus damage + bonus damage accessires.

the thing that needs to be made clear is while you will hit crits more often with more investment in precion your over all dps suffers as to reap a large crit chance you’ll have to invest a lot into precision with out power you’ll hit a lot less over all dps.

precision is the second worst scaling stat in the game (after healing power)

power should usually always be over precision because of this fact.

why hit 5 10% more often when it makes your usual hit 3 when you can hit constant 4 being a good small simple example.
because that’s what it boils down too.

you will always have crit chance if you crit you get the bonus dps anyway. which means that exra precision was and is pointless. the crit chance will also be very similar unless you wreck you power which is a very bad idea.

Heta.8629:

Trying to get more damage on my tank build … I’m wondering if the discipline line and higher crits would out damage the total damage increase of the strength line. Thanks in advance and feel free to include and handy traits or combos not mentioned above.

Quick answer; Strength is better.

Better answer; Change the Berserker to Knights, and run the Meta build (30/25/0/0/15) or the “1 Warrior group” build (30/10/0/20/10) and using Berserker (picking up 20 into Tactics for Empowered Allies gives you 200 Vitality along with it, which should be all the extra “tankiness” you need).

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Warlord.9074:

Run 2 warriors in a party then you don’t have to ask.

Pug warriors always drop Strength Defense for some reason so Discipline is still the better choice. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pug warrior drop Discipline unless I specifically asked him to.

Fixed that for you.

wildfang.9670:

Heta.8629:

Trying to get more damage on my tank build I want to go 30 into strength or disciple for the 15% damage or crit chance traits respectively. I will likely change to full zerker trinkets to help damage as well.

With the strength line the total damage increase would include 300 power, 20% damage increase (dual wielding and zerkers power).

With full discipline the damage increase would include 15% crit chance, 30% crit damage, and good use of fast hands with upcoming sigil changes (4 on swap sigils every cool down).

I’m wondering if the discipline line and higher crits would out damage the total damage increase of the strength line. Thanks in advance and feel free to include and handy traits or combos not mentioned above.

power trait line with out a doubt allow me to explain something kinda basic.

power increase over all dps
pre increases crit chance
crit =50% bonus damage + bonus damage accessires.

the thing that needs to be made clear is while you will hit crits more often with more investment in precion your over all dps suffers as to reap a large crit chance you’ll have to invest a lot into precision with out power you’ll hit a lot less over all dps.

precision is the second worst scaling stat in the game (after healing power)

power should usually always be over precision because of this fact.

why hit 5 10% more often when it makes your usual hit 3 when you can hit constant 4 being a good small simple example.
because that’s what it boils down too.

you will always have crit chance if you crit you get the bonus dps anyway. which means that exra precision was and is pointless. the crit chance will also be very similar unless you wreck you power which is a very bad idea.

What.

Yes, thanks for reminding us most warriors are self-centered anyway. Comparing each banner to how much personal stat gain u get from it, is a great way to go. No wonder I see pug warriors take banner of defense as their 1st choice .. if there was a signet that gave the same stats they would take it instead, thankfully there’s not. I wouldn’t advise taking banners if its for selfish reasons, go signets instead. For the general case its always:
disc > str > ..

In cases where you can’t crit like for burrows or the TA endboss it is:
str > ..

Heta.8629:

Trying to get more damage on my tank build I want to go 30 into strength or disciple for the 15% damage or crit chance traits respectively. I will likely change to full zerker trinkets to help damage as well.

With the strength line the total damage increase would include 300 power, 20% damage increase (dual wielding and zerkers power).

With full discipline the damage increase would include 15% crit chance, 30% crit damage, and good use of fast hands with upcoming sigil changes (4 on swap sigils every cool down).

I’m wondering if the discipline line and higher crits would out damage the total damage increase of the strength line. Thanks in advance and feel free to include and handy traits or combos not mentioned above.

missed something in my previous post
without high precision your dps would likely take a major hit. unless your running 30 25 0 0 15. point being too much investment into disc will reduce your dps with out question with out enough precision to back it up.

with that said some investment into disc is not a bad idea but leaving the strength line as you are asking would be.

nagr.1593:

Yes, thanks for reminding us most warriors are self-centered anyway. Comparing each banner to how much personal stat gain u get from it, is a great way to go. No wonder I see pug warriors take banner of defense as their 1st choice .. if there was a signet that gave the same stats they would take it instead, thankfully there’s not. I wouldn’t advise taking banners if its for selfish reasons, go signets instead. For the general case its always:
disc > str > ..

In cases where you can’t crit like for burrows or the TA endboss it is:
str > ..

you just called one of our best team support skills selfish and he’s asking about traits not banner.

I still have to wonder why the 30/x/x/x/30 dual axe build isn’t more popular, I run that with zerk armor/wep and cavallier trinkets, also use the banner trait for extra support and a bit of vit

that +15% damage and +15% crit chance is just too good to let it go

korelg.7862:

I still have to wonder why the 30/x/x/x/30 dual axe build isn’t more popular, I run that with zerk armor/wep and cavallier trinkets, also use the banner trait for extra support and a bit of vit

that +15% damage and +15% crit chance is just too good to let it go

It’s less DPS than 30/25/0/0/15, it’s just math.

For clarification I was talking about the traits and not the banners.

I’m leaning toward strength just for the flat damage increase and the weapons I use (mace , sword , axe) have high power coefficients.

When I looked at my crit chance and damage in game with full zerker trinkets and checked the table on the crit chance page from the wiki it said that my overall damage would be 40% higher than with zero crit chance and damage when traited to full discipline and full adrenaline. These number are misleading due to the upcoming crit damage nerf, 300 less power than strength, and RNG but it does seem numbers wise better than strength on paper

Heta.8629:

For clarification I was talking about the traits and not the banners.

I’m leaning toward strength just for the flat damage increase and the weapons I use (mace , sword , axe) have high power coefficients.

When I looked at my crit chance and damage in game with full zerker trinkets and checked the table on the crit chance page from the wiki it said that my overall damage would be 40% higher than with zero crit chance and damage when traited to full discipline and full adrenaline. These number are misleading due to the upcoming crit damage nerf, 300 less power than strength, and RNG but it does seem numbers wise better than strength on paper

It’s not about the stats you get from the trait line, it’s the traits you can take. Strength gives 5% when dual wielding, +10% axe crit damage/10% GS damage, and +15% damage when adren full. Discipline gives Fast Hands, might on swap, and +15% crit chance. The Strength ones stack up to a lot more overall but the Discipline traits may be useful for other things, i.e. stacking might with a longbow.

In other words, there’s no categorical answer which is better, it depends on what stats you are currently sitting at and what weapons you are using.

Depend on what weapons will you use. If you want to use the best weapons for DPS you need 15pts in Discipline for fast hands, allowing you to rotate GS with Axe/Mace. But overall, the Strength will give you more DPS.

I think you better stick with Axe/Mace and Strength Line. For Dual Wielding, Axe Mastery and Berserker’s Power.

Anyway if you have a tanky warrior, power will give you a better return for DPS that precision/crit chance.

But if you want to get a good dps with a tanky warrior. The best you can do is using the meta build of 30/25/0/0/15 and take your survivability out of your gear by using a mix of Zerker with knight or Cavalier. Only because trait with these damage modifier will give you a way better dps.