Guild Wars 2

This may just be my preference.

But I find it very kitten that warriors rely so much on straight up unblockable/unstrippable invulnerabilities. There is absolutely 0 skill to these abilities, and they are longgggggggg in their uptime and longggggggg in their downtime. Neither of these 2 points is desirable in the warrior class imo.

I would like a change to endure pain to start out…then later maybe look at defy pain and maybe warrior’s resistance skills.

Endure pain:
-cooldown 35 seconds
-grants immunity to damage for 2 seconds
Final ability instead of stun breaker (not sure which would be better):
-Provides stability for 2 seconds
or
-displaces any stuns for 2 seconds and then re-enables the stun once the ability ends
(so if you were stunned and hit endure pain you would break free…..but then 2 seconds later would go back to being stunned for whatever the remaining duration of whatever stuns you were hit with while in endure pain or that you broke while going into endure pain.

Basically cut everything in half is what I’m doing here. I think it still counting as a stun break (in some way shape or form) every 30 seconds is a bit much on paper though. So the cd is 35 seconds, also it makes sense incase people use it with the trait that gives you vigor on stance use….in which case its more balanced now. Maybe that vigor (6 seconds currently) on use can be reduced by 1-2 seconds (4-5 seconds) specifically on endure pain…I mean thats a bit confusing though I can see it better to just leave it as it. That traiting would also increase the endure pain duration to 2.5 seconds….since it was 1 second beforehand. Alternatively it could reduce the cd to 30 as well…..I mean all those things is obviously probably too much so its a pick and choose type of thing. Alternatively maybe it being a stun breaker isn’t too much? I mean it probaly isn’t on paper but it displaces too many of the other warrior abilities making it unfair in that respect. But it would allow people to go rousing resilience route instead and take advantage of it that way….again that might be op though since fighting warriors could easily become a case of “DONT STUN THEM THEY HAVE 5 STUN BreakERS EVERY 30 SeconDS, AND 1000 TOUGHNESS EVEERY 8 SECONDS THEY BREAK ONE!!!”

Alternatively something like having it count as a stun breaker on odd or even uses would make sense (so its still a stun breaker every 60 seconds like it used to be)…although making that into the game would be problematic.

Regardless of the change to stun breaking:
What does this do? Rewards people for timing their usage of endure pain….using it in bad situations to block certain enemy attacks or allow them uptime to finish off downed enemies (lets face it we are one of the worst downed enemy killers in the game). It becomes more of a skilled utility as opposed to a…..noob skill we need to rely on. INvulnerability is NOOOOOOOB, we are NOOOOOBS for using such things…..dem are gaming facts right there. Having 4-5 seconds of invulnerability is the definition of nooob. especialy if you pair it with defy pain….taht’s ridiculous and none of us really want this! We just want options to stay competitive against the other classes and to keep our sustain up in the face of overwhelming odds. We CAN do this….less invulnerability spread out over user determined times will help us do this. It raises the skill bar of the profession, doesn’t add or subtract anything from the overall stats of the present endure pain, and gives us more options incombat….what more could you want?

Well, you have several points here, so I’ll just address them one by one. I don’t really agree that there’s zero skill involved with using the present version of Endure Pain. One of the crucial abilities of the core warrior is its ability to trade hits with enemies; this is why the recent Adrenal Health change has been such a buff, because now our sustain is high enough to withstand a few hits and dish out our own damage in turn. This can also be seen in the profession’s naturally high health pool, consistent regeneration mechanics, and usage of heavy armor. Warriors don’t have as many active defenses as most other professions, but are instead more innately durable (something which starts out as an advantage at low skill levels, but gradually turns into a drawback against more competent opponents). Endure Pain currently creates a brief window in which the warrior can trade damage with an opponent at reduced or even no cost against power builds. This means that in order to get the full value out of the skill, you have to use it at the correct time – getting chilled and kited will just waste Endure Pain, for example, as will getting cc-locked for its duration. Ideally it should be used in combination with a crucial skill or burst to ensure that it lands without suffering overly-detrimental consequences. Even then, Endure Pain still only gives immunity to direct damage, meaning that any condi specs won’t really have much trouble tearing through it. We could discuss the combo of Endure Pain + Berserker Stance, but I think popping two utilities that both have sixty second cooldowns just to get four seconds of full damage immunity is unsustainable enough to be a minimal problem at best (and even then it remains vulnerable to cc, unless you toss in Balanced Stance too, in which case there are still boon corrupts).

Moving on to your skill change suggestion, I actually think this would make Endure Pain more powerful, not less. Why? Because most other professions don’t have damage skills that last for an entire four seconds (or three and a half, in the case of Hundred Blades). Two seconds would be more than sufficient to nullify the entirety of, say, a power mesmer’s burst – and would doing this be any more skillful than using the current version of Endure Pain? Well, not really. Sure, you can pop the four second version early in hopes that it will last long enough to block the burst, but any decent mesmer will just stow weapon and wait out the effect. Two seconds of direct damage immunity is still quite sufficient, in my opinion, to qualify as a “panic button” skill – and putting it on a thirty or thirty-five second cooldown would be just a bit too strong.

Now, on the topic of chaining invulnerabilities – here I think you have a point. Endure Pain on its own isn’t all that obnoxious, but combine that with Defy Pain and possibly the shield block and I can see where it starts to get a little annoying. I still wouldn’t call it overpowered, since other professions and elite specializations have demonstrated far greater levels of sustain through their active defenses, and there are ways to bypass both Endure Pain and the block, but it’s not what I would consider the most interesting set of mechanics in the world. With that in mind, my suggestion would be to just rework Defy Pain to do something else other than giving flat out direct damage immunity – perhaps some kind of stacking effect that gives bonus toughness upon hitting a foe, for example. Its current version is indeed rather boring and isn’t really even that useful in terms of trading damage, since it relies on the opponent to proc it, so I wouldn’t mind seeing a more active version of the trait implemented in the future.

Its set up this way because warrior is a burst class.

Warrior for PvP is in it to win it or die on point. Thats this play style for the class. You are trying to make it like every other class. So no i disagree.

Ranger has signet of stone (takes no physical damage for 4 sec) boom same thing and it gets cele form for aoe heals.

Guardian has aegis, 3 blocks from a focus, shelter, renewed focus and with virtues can do some really neat things as well as reflect skills.

I could go on and on about the style of play which each class brings and go into detail about it but im not.

So again i disagree because each class should feel different from the other. Guardians and Eles are the sustain button smashing classes and lets keep it that way. If more classes become the exact same we should just rename every class besides mesmer and thief to bore guy because bore guy is exactly like everyone else.

Torqiseknite.1380:

etc etc

Well I don’t really agree with the second half of what you said. FOr the first half though… if 2 seconds of invulnerability 35 seconds apart is infact op as you describe we can just decrease it! lol

It can be anywhere from 1-2 seconds invulnerability depending on what makes it balanced…I don’t have any real problem with doing so! That will make it a selfish rehash of shake it off except a longer cd and a damage mitigation that focuses on direct instead of condition….that seems fine to me.

Its set up this way because warrior is a burst class.

Warrior for PvP is in it to win it or die on point. Thats this play style for the class. You are trying to make it like every other class. So no i disagree.

Ranger has signet of stone (takes no physical damage for 4 sec) boom same thing and it gets cele form for aoe heals.

Guardian has aegis, 3 blocks from a focus, shelter, renewed focus and with virtues can do some really neat things as well as reflect skills.

I could go on and on about the style of play which each class brings and go into detail about it but im not.

So again i disagree because each class should feel different from the other. Guardians and Eles are the sustain button smashing classes and lets keep it that way. If more classes become the exact same we should just rename every class besides mesmer and thief to bore guy because bore guy is exactly like everyone else.

Ya but you literally just listed the other invulnerabilities of the other professions and how they are pretty much the same as the warrior’s presently. I don’t really see how that makes warrior unique. I mean if you are happy with the concept of 8-9 straight seconds of invulnerability to direct damage and 15+ straight seconds of invulerability to condition damage being meta for warriors, then we do not share the same sentiments when it comes to gaming. And I would fully argue that such ‘defenses’ are not specific to warrior…they are infact generic, going against the argument that warrior is ‘special in a good way’. Since everything is great on this front…..I wonder why this ‘special in a good way’ gimmick hasn’t made us PvP worthy

I think 9 seconds of straight invulnerability to primary damage is pretty nooby
Kinda hard to take any game seriously when the first thing you read about it is ur class’s primary sustain is pressing a button once and initiating god mode for 9 straight seconds.

Let’s say WoW the primary way to win a fight was by doing this over and over again. I mean that’s pretty much the definition of noob combat. There’s a reason why the cheats called such things ‘God Mode’ back in the day.

Fine lets do this

Rangers ability is 4 sec and then they depend on cele avatar for heals and condi cleanse. They have no sec ability to break stuns or get secondary heals. They need to range or use glyphs to get knockbacks and stuns. They use passive damage from pets to win 1 vs 1 fights.

Guardians have many outs but are not in meta atm because they cant remove all the condi flying around. Otherwise a bunker guardian is great with overall sustain and before HOT was the best bunker character in the game. At times in EU tournies you would literally see teams strategy’s as avoid any fight with tage. Which is why EU has always had mesmer play where NA was more ele and thieves before HOT.

In your argument you are saying its nothing special but to engage in a 1 vs 1 vs a warrior is very different then any other class. You are watching for these specific skills.

You might even give up a point against a warrior who pops both (which is a noob move in a 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2) and then immediately go after him for doing such.

Moving the passive endure pain to 50% health did somethings for higher level play and no longer became a crutch for poor players to get sustain when low on health.

Also witht he insane amount of sustain in the game Warriors need to effectively use these skills. Not go god mode for 9 sec and win a fight which will never ever happen in this game unless you are straight garbage. I have never had a serious 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 last less 35 sec so your complaint about god mode and noob play is a joke.

Warrior before HOT was the Apex of PvP for years, simply calling us gimmicky because HOT is broken doesnt mean the skills are broken.

Lastly these skills for warrior decide team fights. When in a TOL/AG/ESL tournament and you see these pop up you change target. Since the warrior used these stances he will die to the AOE and passive damage being done to his team mates around him. Where as you constantly focus down the other characters and in the case of the Ele now. You always target them last like the old bunker guard.

Thats called different styles of play. This small “gimmick” you commented on decides how teams play team fights/ who rotates where/ and who is targeted.

No one needs every class to play exactly the same way, you calling it the same thing because another class has the same skill shows you dont appreciate the small differences in the game play.