Guild Wars 2

Perma-evading enemies are annoying, right? Right. Warrior is hurting for a niche right now—perhaps it can specialize in punishing enemies for evading.

There are a few options here.

1) The most straightforward—an “Unavoidable” effect, just as there is an “Unblockable.” This could be implemented as a timed buff a la Signet of Might or given to certain skills.

2) A little softer—a skill that drains enemies’ endurance (does this already exist?). Doesn’t help against evades attached to weapon skills, though. Would make sense attached to something like Wild Blow (got the wind knocked out of ’em, yada yada).

3) A debuff, “Spinal Fracture,” that causes damage (or daze, or maybe torment—adjust to your desired level of death) when the target evades. Would also make sense applied to Wild Blow, or perhaps some mace or hammer skills.

I’m actually having loads of fun playing my warrior, I just wish my Gunflames would hit more often.

The real problem is how Anet has been giving too many offensive skills and skill effects evasion and way too much evade to some people. What they should do is tone down the amount of offensive ability is attached to evades. However, assuming that they don’t do this then I will give my thoughts on this.

1) Anything outright ignoring evades would just be dumb because it would basically stomp all over people using real evades as a means to avoid nukes. It would also make warrior a no skill required class that could destroy anyone at any time by just using sig of might + beserker stance/healing sig to ignore blinding + w/e would cause “unavoidable” on a full power build.

2) This is a bit better, as long as it isn’t something too crazy. I still beleive that it would be really OP vs people who don’t have many skill evades because it would mean that it would be way too easy for war to land high damage skills on them.

3) I feel like this could be a good idea with a few tweaks. If I may, I have a suggestion for this.

It can be a trait that causes vulnerability to apply an additional debuff called “Dizziness” or “Vertigo” which causes the affected player’s damage to be reduced by 90% for a second every time the player evades, (and will apply itself every second in the case of constant evasion skills) evading (I say reduced by 90% rather than outright missing because I don’t want to affect evasions that lead to CC or conditions)

This way, people that use evasion sparingly, as a way to avoid nukes (as it was intended be in the first place) aren’t punished too harshly while people with OP evade attacks have their attacks almost completely nullified and only benefit from the evasion by not being able to be hit (which, as I said before, is how it should be)

Good idea, Stun can be made baseline so when upon apply also damage target endurance.

It is actuallt quite make sense when you got stun you are not able to react and dodge so soon. If there is such mechanic, some trait can be added to regain endurance on stun break or no endurance lose when get stun. These can actually promote build diversity.
Thes also benefit pve encounter designs that dodge is the best and all the way solution to defense.

Adding a 25% endurance drain on some warrior skills would make warrior a bit more interesting. I suppose good candidates for this would be:

• Fierce blow if hit on kocked or stunned target (make it conditional apply so it’s not too OP) or apply it on Backbreaker. Either or, just not to make hammer too strong
• Rifle butt because rifle needs some attention and would make sense
• Pommel bash because that skill is lackluster on its own and makes mace more appealing
• Kick, even though this wouldn’t make the skill very appealing, but it would be a small buff nevertheless

I hate that some people just dodge all day long, but then again I myself run Sigil of Energy and Stamina signet for the same reason, effectily giving myself 5 dodges every 20 second from the usual 2 dodges.

Netreius.8951:

1) Anything outright ignoring evades would just be dumb because it would basically stomp all over people using real evades as a means to avoid nukes. It would also make warrior a no skill required class that could destroy anyone at any time by just using sig of might + beserker stance/healing sig to ignore blinding + w/e would cause “unavoidable” on a full power build.

For only a few seconds and then they are rally bait.

Netreius.8951:

1) Anything outright ignoring evades would just be dumb because it would basically stomp all over people using real evades as a means to avoid nukes. It would also make warrior a no skill required class that could destroy anyone at any time by just using sig of might + beserker stance/healing sig to ignore blinding + w/e would cause “unavoidable” on a full power build.

Hmm. Agreed that this would really be too cheesy as a timed buff, for reasons you’ve mentioned. It might not be unreasonable applied to very specific skills, though. Shouts, for instance, since how does one dodge a shout? An undodgeable CC on “Fear me!” would be very strong, but not necessarily overpowered since it’s still nullified by resistance and stability, and can be stunbroken or cleansed.

Still, other, more nuanced options are probably preferable, especially since Warrior is so simplistic as is.

The biggest issue, as you said, is how to punish absurd offensive evades without overly hurting…I guess necromancers, since they’re the only class I can think of that doesn’t have any means of completely nullifying damage outside of true dodging. Best answer is probably to nerf the damage on all offensive evade skills, but in the absence of that…a Confusion-esque debuff would at least be interesting.

frednought.1238:

Perma-evading enemies are annoying, right? Right. Warrior is hurting for a niche right now—perhaps it can specialize in punishing enemies for evading.

There are a few options here.

1) The most straightforward—an “Unavoidable” effect, just as there is an “Unblockable.” This could be implemented as a timed buff a la Signet of Might or given to certain skills.

2) A little softer—a skill that drains enemies’ endurance (does this already exist?). Doesn’t help against evades attached to weapon skills, though. Would make sense attached to something like Wild Blow (got the wind knocked out of ’em, yada yada).

3) A debuff, “Spinal Fracture,” that causes damage (or daze, or maybe torment—adjust to your desired level of death) when the target evades. Would also make sense applied to Wild Blow, or perhaps some mace or hammer skills.

Cool ideas.

i dunno, maybe evade skills should inherently drain endurance?

Mesmer’s have too much stealth lets fix this by giving everyone and their brother revealed as counter-play.

Revenant has too many evades, lets make skills that ignore evade to balance it out.

*Thief community cowers in the corner slitting wrists.

Id prefer having less clunky-stuck in animation abilities, forcing the warr to swing away while enemy is actively engaged (loosen abilities up, like instead of GS #5 being a charge line give us superspeed for some secs and on 2nd press u deal its damage), and generally make us more able to stay on target.

On the off note, you do know Weakness reduces endurance regenartion by 50%? Unless you mean evade skills, in which case all have counters.

frednought.1238:

I’m actually having loads of fun playing my warrior, I just wish my Gunflames would hit more often.

Asking for an attack that can hit for a glass spec’s entire hp bar to be unevadable while Warriors have a signet that makes their attacks unblockable:

Get out.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

frednought.1238:

I’m actually having loads of fun playing my warrior, I just wish my Gunflames would hit more often.

Asking for an attack that can hit for a glass spec’s entire hp bar to be unevadable while Warriors have a signet that makes their attacks unblockable:

Get out.

Kitten, you caught me red-handed! >__>

Seriously, though. There’s just too much massive damage attached to evade skills right now (see: revenant) and certain specs can chain together absurd periods of invulnerability (sweet jesus, bunker chronomancers). If nothing else, it’s worth discussing whether there needs to be some counterplay for that. I maybe should have put this in the PvP forum as it’s a wider discussion that affects more than just warriors.

Frankly, I do think it’d be a better idea to reduce the damage of all such skills to make them more of a defensive utility than an automatic win button since, as Kadin mentioned re: thieves, throwing a million counters at an OP thing just makes the whole system harder to balance. But then, I also think that elite specs brought with them an inordinate amount of CC and AoE (hell, if it weren’t for the AoE madness I think Daredevils would probably be in a pretty decent spot right now—they’re tough to pin down if you’re relying on big burst hits, which, as you might imagine from my Gunflame comment, I currently am). The point being, I guess, that we’re pretty far into power creep land and I’m not sure you could balance one of those things without scaling back pretty much everything the elite specs brought.

A blanket “unevadeable” buff a la Signet of Might would be boring, braindead and, yes, OP. I mentioned it mainly as it’s just the most straightforward option. Something more subtle like endurance drain or an evade-hate condition requires a little more planning and is more interesting than “gee I hope this hits”—which is good, no? Warrior could use a few more strategic avenues to work with.

tl;dr yeah I just wanna be op too mang

Also, a disclaimer I guess. I’m not an amazing player by any means, I only ever queue alone, and all of my 700ish games have thus far been in unranked—I’m just speaking from my limited experience and as someone interested in game design as a process. So…take that for what it’s worth.

Let’s start by nerfing some passive defenses first…

There’s this thing called weakness…you know that thing that reduces regen to one dodge every 20 seconds. Many weapon evades actually have vulnerable frames where you can interrupt them. The only things that probably need a look are mesmer sword 2 (add a short cast), distortion shatter (not sure), and revenant riposting shadows (add cooldown or increase cost). Other evades are usually manageable. The only class that can really spam normal dodges is DD, but take that away and they are completely useless.