[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Q:

The purpose of this thread is to facilitate discussion on balancing the warrior’s skills and traits and address current flaws; all while simultaneously accounting for interprofessional balance.

Current rating (0 Votes): 0/0

Message to the community

Feel free to drop feedback in this thread. I read everything here and will make changes if necessary. There is a lot of content. Please save your responses as sometimes the forum “bugs out” and eats your response.

Cast a vote on the strawpoll link above after reading the suggestions to share whether you approve or disapprove of these suggestions.

Message to the ArenaNet developers

Please take a look at these suggestions, and consider them for a future patch.

Updates

  • 05/10/2016 – Post SQ2016 balance patch, document is outdated.
  • 03/10/2016 – Beta revision 2 released. Criticism welcomed / Please vote on the strawpoll link above. Editing put on hold to collect feedback.
  • 03/10/2016 – Beta revision 1 completed. Feedback results: 3.06/4 from 45 voters Screen cap
  • 02/24/2016 – Beta revision 1 released. Criticism welcomed / Please vote on the strawpoll link above. Editing put on hold to collect feedback.
  • 02/24/2016 – Public alpha draft completed.
  • 01/05/2016 – Public alpha – Undergoing heavy construction. Please hold off on commentary until document reaches “Beta”

FAQ


Why should ArenaNet be concerned about balance?

A balanced game is a critical aspect that can not be ignored if ArenaNet has any aspirations of making the game successful in the E-sports scene. In order for a game to become a popular sport, there are 2 major requirements: accessibility and consistency.

ArenaNet made a good move to make the game more accessible to the masses by making it free to play, but the game is still inconsistent in terms of balance. This is why the meta-shifting approach to balance is not effective. It’s easier to implement, but yields lower quality results and fails to cultivate the potential profits of a game that’s popularized by the E-sports scene. Why’s that?

Because every time there’s a meta-shift, you force a player to relearn a profession, and it takes away the momentum from the player to build upon, as well as from the audience. Without consistent balance, players can not become masters of their craft and the audience will have a tougher time following it- the game will never achieve the “easy to play, hard to master” aspect many competitive games have. On the flipside, when proper balance is achieved, the game will have a greater chance at succeeding at the e-sports scene.

What’s your approach to dealing with imbalance?

There are many ways to balance a game: Power Creep, Nerf Bat, Meta Shift, and Equalize. (see attached image for visual)

  • Power creep: Raise the power of weak abilities to match the strong
  • Nerf bat: Reduce the power of the strong abilities to match the weak
  • Meta shift: Take turns in what’s strong and weak (Current model for ArenaNet)
  • Equalize: Reduce the power of the strong, raise the power of the weak. Achieve equilibrium

I have done my best to avoid the meta-shift, nerf bat, or power creep approach when it comes to balance, and opted to deal with the imbalance issue using the equalize approach. These ideas are cultivated through thorough deconstructions of the profession in order to create an ideal and balanced profession. The suggestions are then presented to the forum for further refinement. I will try my best to collaborate with everyone, but understand that I won’t be able to achieve full consensus on every suggestion.

I intend to give all professions the same treatment so no one profession is stronger than the other.

I disagree with your changes

Tell me why and what should I do to achieve balance? Allow me to gain your perspective so I can refine these suggestions.

Preview (Traits)


Due to the size of the project, a summary won’t fit in this forum post (1500 message limit). Below is a preview of some trait changes. See spreadsheet for more in depth explanations as well as weapon and skill changes.

Strength

  • Reckless Dodge – reduce damage slightly
  • Death from above – Remove unblockable properties
  • Peak performance – remove recharge reduction and damage increases (made baseline.. sorta), reduce recharge for a static amount each time you are hit. Include super armor while casting attacks.
  • Restorative strength – Increase might duration, reduce might stacks
  • Axe mastery – Critical axe hits gain extra adrenaline. Axe skills deal more damage based on how much adrenaline you have built.
  • Forceful greatsword – Decrease modifier slightly, but make part of the damage increase baseline for greatsword.
  • Stick and move – Decrease damage modifier slightly
  • Absolute control- Foes that break your control will be immobilized and weakened. Removing stability from foes applies cripple per stack of stability removed.
  • Berserker’s power – Decrease modifier slightly, make some damage increase baseline
  • Resistant Concentration- Increase boon duration. Attempts to steal, rip, or corrupt your boons are reversed.

Arms

  • Berserker’s fury – Gain adrenaline while in combat. Gain fury and swiftness when you reach maximum adrenaline.
  • Mighty expertise: Might increases applied condition duration.
  • Signet mastery – Signets recharge faster. Cast signet of might when one of your attacks is blocked. Increase precision gain.
  • Blademaster – Swords have an increase critical hit chance against bleeding foes. Critical strikes with a sword grants endurance. Reduces recharge on sword skills.
  • Deep strikes – Fury grants increased condition damage. Fury you apply lasts longer.
  • Concussive strikes – Stuns, dazes, knockbacks, pulls, pushes, and launches inflict bleeding and weakness. Cause confusion when you interrupt a foe’s skill. Increase critical hit chance against disabled foes.
  • Burst precision – Remove blind and weakness before using burst skills. Burst skills have an increase critical hit chance.
  • Dual wielding – Critical hit chance and attack speed is increase when wielding a sword, axe, or mace in your off hand.
  • Furious – Include ferocity increase with effect.

Defense

  • Thick skin – Increase toughness for each foe you are currently in combat with.
  • Cull the weak – increase damage to weakened foes. Pulse weakness to nearby foes when you stay in combat for extended periods of time.
  • Dogged march – change regeneration to vigor
  • Adrenal health – gain health when you gain adrenaline.
  • Defy pain – Activate endure pain for 1 second when you are hit for more than 10% of your maximum health. Does not break stuns
  • Sundering mace – Mace auto attack have a chance to apply vulnerability and daze your foe.
  • Last stand – Remove increased stance duration and vigor gain, decrease recharge of stances
  • Rousing resilience – Gain fury when interrupted. Heal and gain stability when you break out of a stun. Gain protection whenever stability negates incoming control.

Tactics

  • Determined revival: Add increased revive speed
  • Empowered – Increase damage per boon on you. Damage nearby foes when you receive a boon from an ally.
  • Leg specialist – Immobilize a target when you cripple them. Gain superspeed if you strike a foe from behind.
  • Vigorous shouts – Removed adrenaline gain
  • Burning arrows – Longbow skills deal more damage to burning foes. Longbow skills recharge faster.
  • inspiring presense – Allies healing skills are more effective when they are near you.
  • Powerful synergy – Combo finishers are twice as effective.
  • Inspiring battle standard: Banners deal damage when summoned. Wielders of your banner are granted protection after a brief delay. Banners pulse regeneration.

Discipline

  • Crack shot – Increase range of rifle and harpoon projectiles. Reduce recharge on rifle and harpoon skills.
  • Vengeful return – Include a reduced cooldown on vengeance
  • Reckless abandon – Damage nearby foes when you swap weapons.
  • Brawler’s recovery – Include a incoming condition damage reduction effect when you swap weapons
  • Destruction of the empowered – About the same, reduce incoming damage if foe has more boons
  • Quick breathing – Converts conditions into boons
  • Heightened focus – Gain boons and adrenaline when striking a foe below health threshold.
  • Merciless hammer – Hammer reach is increased and hammer skills are given special effects based on adrenaline level.

Berserker

  • Primal rage – remove attack speed boost, replace with crit chance
  • Heat the soul – Incoming burning gives regeneration when you wield torch. Mainhand burst inflicts burning when wielding torch. reduce torch cooldown.
  • King of fires – When you use a rage skill gain a fire shield. Gain adrenaline when a foe strikes your fire shield. reduce rage cooldown.
  • Smash brawler – Reduce multiplier to 6% / 12%
  • Burning fight – Chance to cause fire nova when striking a foe in berserk mode.
  • Blood reaction – % of outgoing hits converted to healing. Primal bursts heal you.
  • Dead or alive – Taking fatal damage while in berserk mode will end berserk mode, but heal you and damage + burn nearby foes.
  • Dragon punch – Automatically enter berserk mode when you fall below health threshold. Stay in berserk mode for extended period if you maintain might threshold. Gain adrenaline when leaving berserk mode.
  • Fatal flame – Defeated foes trigger a fire nova.
  • Bloody roar – Taunt and bleed nearby foes when you enter berserk mode. Increase damage in berserk mode.
  • Eternal champion – Break stun when entering berserk mode. gain stability and vigor in berserk mode. Reduce incoming damage in berserk mode.
  • Savage instinct – Activate berserk stance when you enter berserk m ode. Gain increaesd condition damage in berserk mode.

Other Balance Discussions


Attachments:

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Zeghart.9841

Zeghart.9841

Very nicely put together and easy to read, it’s definitely a very good start.
Even if the chances of Anet ever reading it are very slim, it’s really worth expanding upon.

Organized and thoughtful feedback is worth a thousand angry rant threads.

It has to start somewhere. It has to start sometime.
What better place than here? What better time than now?

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

I like the idea of counter-attacks adding range. That would be an excellent class mechanic that would reward a unique style of play.

I also like the idea for rifle #1. Low damage but highly spammable. It would make rifles all about the Killshot but they already are if you are playing it right.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Widebody.5071

Widebody.5071

I like the idea of warriors skills being what they were 16 months ago.
Every fallback we took as warriors were player driven. Those players being non warrior mains. We ran too fast so they nerfed our speed, rifle was too strong so they took away bleeding and blindness.
“He ran thrue our entire aoe cc blitze” so they nerfed stab.
They have too many stuns so most of our stun abilities are bugged.
Warriors are just wheere the community wants them.
Dang and let’s not talk about adrenaline. What class has their core mechanic disabled until combat besides warriors. Also What class loses their core mechanic within leaving combat after 2 seconds?

Warriors were nerfed so that we can beg to be giving back what was taken fro us while the other classes move ahead.

(edited by Widebody.5071)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Sykper.6583

Sykper.6583

I really appreciate the Warrior Community for bringing about so many different ideas on how to make Warriors more viable or reworked to a common theme.

One tiny thing I would argue, is that your Burst Precision change might be a bit too strong if it cannot be evaded. The blind immunity alone is enough to make it worthwhile over Sigil of Intelligence, but we are already seeing massive amounts of Berserkers with Rifles in WvW dealing substantial damage with Unblockable capabilities built-in ala Signet of Might and/or Signet Mastery.

At that point the only counter remaining for an opponent given your suggestion would be popping an invuln, that’s it. There’s nothing else.

I suggest keeping evasion in, it is something both sides of a conflict can manipulate and bait out, leading to constructively good fights.

Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

@skyper
Thank you for your valuable tip. You’re absolutely right about kill shot warriors with unblockable abilities. I’ll keep evasion out and blind immunity in.

@widebody I completely forgot about adrenaline, and yes I do think adrenaline decays too fast after leaving combat. At very least, there needs to be a 5 second delay before decay kicks in. I’ll note it in the opening post.

@chris and zeghart, thank you.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Jzaku.9765

Jzaku.9765

I like how generally realistic these changes are, nothing too OTT and as a whole I can see Anet actually implementing some of these. Some comments about things I feel are off (as I read through these changes) though:

  • I think if any weapon deserves some baseline CD reductions Hammer would be it, you mention that shield bash is too long CD for a single target stun but Hammer’s single target knockdown is on a 30s CD and much harder to land?
  • No changes to Primal Hammer burst? That thing is completely trash
  • Scorched Earth already pulses per second afaik so no real reason to reduce it’s direct damage
  • I’m fairly certain Rifle butt turning into a launch doesn’t justify a CD increase considering they’re the exact same mechanically if the range is the same. Heck, it’s way easier to stunbreak a launch because the animation takes longer for you to reach the destination. Actually I’m not really sure what this change is for lol.
  • There’s no incentive to -not- cancelling Flaming Fury since burn is all it does. and 5s Burn would be craaazy in pvp with condi duration boosts, thats 8 stacks of high duration BURN which is kind of spammable
  • Rip should steal or rip(lol) at least 2 Boons considering there’s a massive telegraph on Impale, a massive Telegraph on Rip itself, and the massive telegraph of the status effect on your bar telling you ‘wow I should probably stay away if I don’t want my boons stolen’
  • Torch is a completely trash OH especially when compared to your improved OH sword. Personally I’d make the 20% CD reduction baseline, let Blaze Breaker short-term immob instead of cripple, and let Flames of War pulse out 1 condi cleanse to allies during it’s duration.
  • Heal skill base heal increases are great, but To the Limit’s cast time is so long it functions as a terrible ally stun break. For reference Eye of the Storm on tempest isn’t even taken ever despite being instant cast because of how janky ally stunbreaks are. I think bumping the Endurance gain up to 50 should be good enough.
  • Stunbreak on Defiant Stance is cool but I think it deserves a little more than that considering it’s quite literally worth h a l f a Revenant’s healing skill
  • Staggering Banner > Aegis change, even if it was instant cast it’d be bad because Aegis is a reactive skill and having to pick up the banner is already far far too long to use Aegis properly. See: Retreat on Guardian, it’s always on your bar and available, that’s how you’re going to save that ally about to be killshot/eviscerated.
  • Also for PvE it’s much better to have both offensive stats covered in one Banner (Strength), I’m not really sure what that change is aimed at. 1 Warrior in a 5 man party would have to have their entire utility bar dedicated to banners like that.
  • Battle Standard’s party stunbreak doesn’t work for the reasons I’ve stated before too.
  • Plant Standard is way too fast as it is to be a Finisher sadly, it’d have to have cast time increases to even consider it. For reference it’s like almost half the cast time of the full Daredevil Finishing Blow elite chain.
  • Fear Me is fine as a Fear if you already have Taunt on On My Mark, I don’t see the need for 2 Shouts that perform the same purpose and for a Supportive Warrior build like Shoutbow getting enemies away from Allies has it’s uses too. Like say you’re moving to res a downed ally, congrats you’ve just taunted everyone around to cleave the both of you. Revenant sword Auto is practically their Highest DPS.
  • If anything I think Outrage should get ~2s Resistance on use because then it functions as an omni-break out of anything, and gives it uses outside of stunbreaking. It’s not like you don’t generally immediately dodgeroll in situations you need a stunbreak.

Can’t really comment on Traitline changes as those need to be viewed on a different scale.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

This is really great. I am also OPin a thread about remaking the warrior. if you are interested check out my warrior redone. I’m trying to start a collaboration between like minded players to balance the warrior to a viable and balanced class. I hope you get lots of valuable responses on your thread and will be chacking this thread for ideas for my own build.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

I like how generally realistic these changes are, nothing too OTT and as a whole I can see Anet actually implementing some of these. Some comments about things I feel are off (as I read through these changes) though:

  • I think if any weapon deserves some baseline CD reductions Hammer would be it, you mention that shield bash is too long CD for a single target stun but Hammer’s single target knockdown is on a 30s CD and much harder to land?

I didn’t realize this. Thanks for pointing it out. 25 seconds seem reasonable, don’t you think? I don’t want it too low because backbreaker and shield stun is not the same. Apples and oranges if you will. Backbreaker deals significantly more damage than the shield stun, and I have a suggested trait (merciful hammer in discipline specialization) that makes hammer skills unblockable (including the cooldown reduction).

On second thought, I’m going to revert this as well as the shield cooldown reduction. Changing these would ruin balance more and then I have to consider the mace’s pommel bash. Cooldowns should be fine as is because we shouldn’t rely on one weapon (baseline fast hands)

  • No changes to Primal Hammer burst? That thing is completely trash

I agree that they’re weak, but they’re stronger than level 1 adrenaline bursts for warriors, and they only use 10 adrenaline to fire. Elaborate more on this if you will, and we can brainstorm on some suggestions.

  • Scorched Earth already pulses per second afaik so no real reason to reduce it’s direct damage

Noted. Thanks.

  • I’m fairly certain Rifle butt turning into a launch doesn’t justify a CD increase considering they’re the exact same mechanically if the range is the same. Heck, it’s way easier to stunbreak a launch because the animation takes longer for you to reach the destination. Actually I’m not really sure what this change is for lol.

I put it there for the same reason you said. The launch animation takes longer- thus control period is longer. This enables you to attack your target longer- that is, unless your target breaks stun. I have another trait that punishes enemy players for breaking your applied controls. (see Absolute Control in strength specialization)

Another key difference is that you can launch downed enemies, interrupting attempts to ressurect.

This is more of an afterthought. If the community likes it, then we can keep it. If everyone hates it, we can scrap it.

  • There’s no incentive to -not- cancelling Flaming Fury since burn is all it does. and 5s Burn would be craaazy in pvp with condi duration boosts, thats 8 stacks of high duration BURN which is kind of spammable

Noted, removed the buff.

  • Rip should steal or rip(lol) at least 2 Boons considering there’s a massive telegraph on Impale, a massive Telegraph on Rip itself, and the massive telegraph of the status effect on your bar telling you ‘wow I should probably stay away if I don’t want my boons stolen’

Rip and impale have pretty high base damage, plus the damage from the 5 stacks of torment is strong if the warrior spec’d for condition damage. I’m not sure if 2 would make it stronger than needed. The number can be played around and tested (that is, if arenanet even sees this post)

I’ll let others chime in on this to see where we go.

  • Torch is a completely trash OH especially when compared to your improved OH sword. Personally I’d make the 20% CD reduction baseline, let Blaze Breaker short-term immob instead of cripple, and let Flames of War pulse out 1 condi cleanse to allies during it’s duration.

Blaze breaker is capable of hitting 15 targets in 1 attacks, applying conditions to all of them. I have included a trait overhaul (Leg specialist in tactics, and opportunist in arms), will apply a brief immobilize on all targets, while also granting you fury and swiftness. Other traits in the berserker specialization boost the burning damage even more, but then again, I’m not sure about the numbers. Take a look at them and let me know what you think. If anyone else is reading this, please let me know what you think as well.

  • Heal skill base heal increases are great, but To the Limit’s cast time is so long it functions as a terrible ally stun break. For reference Eye of the Storm on tempest isn’t even taken ever despite being instant cast because of how janky ally stunbreaks are. I think bumping the Endurance gain up to 50 should be good enough.
  • Battle Standard’s party stunbreak doesn’t work for the reasons I’ve stated before too

The stun breaks are more of an afterthought, it was designed to synergize with the new rousing resilience in the defense specialization. (nearby allies that break stun heal and damage nearby enemies)

I’ll let others chime in on this.

  • Stunbreak on Defiant Stance is cool but I think it deserves a little more than that considering it’s quite literally worth h a l f a Revenant’s healing skill

I think it’ll be fine as is with the instant cast and stunbreak. The only vanilla difference here is the healing coefficient
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant_Stance
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infuse_Light

  • Staggering Banner > Aegis change, even if it was instant cast it’d be bad because Aegis is a reactive skill and having to pick up the banner is already far far too long to use Aegis properly. See: Retreat on Guardian, it’s always on your bar and available, that’s how you’re going to save that ally about to be killshot/eviscerated.

Changed to 8 seconds of retaliation then.

  • Also for PvE it’s much better to have both offensive stats covered in one Banner (Strength), I’m not really sure what that change is aimed at. 1 Warrior in a 5 man party would have to have their entire utility bar dedicated to banners like that.

I had to make the tactics banner useful some way. That was what I came up with. Anyways, I think this would be okay. It allows for more collaborative play over solo play. (e.g. warriors running different banners)

I’ll let others chime in on this.

  • Plant Standard is way too fast as it is to be a Finisher sadly, it’d have to have cast time increases to even consider it. For reference it’s like almost half the cast time of the full Daredevil Finishing Blow elite chain.

That’s disappointing, I was really looking forward to it, but I agree with you here. 1 second vs 3.5 seconds is a big difference. How about we increase the cast time to 2.25 seconds, and increase the cooldown to 20 seconds?

I generally only see people use plant standard to blast combo fields, and not so much to drop the banner (swap weapon key drops it faster). If anything, I think the ability to finish downed enemies makes it more useful than a tool to blast finishers, because there are plenty of blast finishers here. The new powerful synergy here is redesigned to activate all finishers twice for enhanced effects.

I’ll let others chime in on this.

  • Fear Me is fine as a Fear if you already have Taunt on On My Mark, I don’t see the need for 2 Shouts that perform the same purpose and for a Supportive Warrior build like Shoutbow getting enemies away from Allies has it’s uses too. Like say you’re moving to res a downed ally, congrats you’ve just taunted everyone around to cleave the both of you. Revenant sword Auto is practically their Highest DPS.

This really can go either way. I’m not going to disagree with you- vanilla fear me has saved me a few times already, but that’s when I was relying more on myself rather than my team mates. By giving warriors an AOE taunt utility, we could pull in 5 enemies for allies to target, while letting necros take care of AOE fears.

I’ll let others chime in here.

On the topic of “On my mark”, how about draining the target’s endurance rather than another taunt? Some variety here.

  • If anything I think Outrage should get ~2s Resistance on use because then it functions as an omni-break out of anything, and gives it uses outside of stunbreaking. It’s not like you don’t generally immediately dodgeroll in situations you need a stunbreak.

Resistance is such a strong boon though, and on 10 second cooldown, it’s hard to make this balance out.

Can’t really comment on Traitline changes as those need to be viewed on a different scale.

Traits are arguably the most important changes proposed. Some skill reworks are meant to go with the traits. Take a second look and let me know what you think.

Anyways, thanks for letting us know your valuable input. If anyone else have anything to add, please drop a few words in this thread.

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Ansatsu.2678

Ansatsu.2678

Thief here. Don’t buff them. All this is blasphemy. =P

Jk this looks promising. Will read all of it later.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Thief here. Don’t buff them. All this is blasphemy. =P

Jk this looks promising. Will read all of it later.

Be sure to add comments!

also who’s the anonymous walrus viewing the document for the past 3 days? Be sure to leave criticism and comments!

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Ansatsu.2678

Ansatsu.2678

Added a few comments. felt like you were overemphasizing PVP and WVW and nerfing PVE too hard

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SHhAr84r7L7sKK4B_hfHxBWp5cgt3fsLAh0EvlDUKnQ/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=852159247

Updated to reflect 01/26 patch. Not sure if the red anonymous animals viewing the document for the past 2 weeks are ArenaNet developers, if you guys are reading this, thanks for the healing buffs, but the patch lacks direction. There are many intraprofession balance issues that need to be addressed.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Would help to talk about ideas to fix the problems, rather than complaining about just the problems.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: Mulling.8421

Mulling.8421

Too bad no one is going to read it.

Or maybe they will…. ….buff rifle.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

I often take a look at TheBravery’s changes, and the anonymous viewers of the document prove that people are interested. So i’d have to say your statement is both inaccurate and pointless.

Keep up the good work TheBravery

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

I often take a look at TheBravery’s changes, and the anonymous viewers of the document prove that people are interested. So i’d have to say your statement is both inaccurate and pointless.

Keep up the good work TheBravery

Thank you.

I think I’m finished with this. Added a sheet outlining theoretical builds to get an idea of any buffs or nerfs are there to current and previously viable builds (as well as potential new builds)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

I don’t mean to do multi-posts, but I see anonymous animals viewing this, and no new comments.

Do you guys like it or despise it? Is this a legitimate balance plan? I need feedback to refine this further.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: ds dante.3209

ds dante.3209

While i do belive too that fast hands should be base line i belive 5s is too much , maybe they can do the same they did with bursts and make the baseline weapon swap for war a 7-8s CD and reduce the rest with the minor trait.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

While i do belive too that fast hands should be base line i belive 5s is too much , maybe they can do the same they did with bursts and make the baseline weapon swap for war a 7-8s CD and reduce the rest with the minor trait.

Oh sweet Jesus, someone responded!

I see your point and you do raise a valid concern. With so many “on weapon swap” effects, 7 Seconds does seem like a reasonable proposition. To be fair, I wasn’t really sure what the reasoning is for getting fast hands baselined other than “mesmers got a bunch of kitten baselined, so why can’t warriors?”.

I did say however, that “traits should not be something the profession heavily relies on, but something that the profession could use to improve itself in specific situations.” in my design philosophy, so my general idea was that fast hands should not have been a trait in the first place due to heavy reliance on it in build compositions.

So yeah. 7 seconds?

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

Depends on what you do overall with weapons. After all, Warriors runes already give you a reduced weapon swap. so if you ad warrior runes and baseline 7 Seconds you’d be looking at right around 5 seconds anyway.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: ds dante.3209

ds dante.3209

While i do belive too that fast hands should be base line i belive 5s is too much , maybe they can do the same they did with bursts and make the baseline weapon swap for war a 7-8s CD and reduce the rest with the minor trait.

Oh sweet Jesus, someone responded!

I see your point and you do raise a valid concern. With so many “on weapon swap” effects, 7 Seconds does seem like a reasonable proposition. To be fair, I wasn’t really sure what the reasoning is for getting fast hands baselined other than “mesmers got a bunch of kitten baselined, so why can’t warriors?”.

I did say however, that “traits should not be something the profession heavily relies on, but something that the profession could use to improve itself in specific situations.” in my design philosophy, so my general idea was that fast hands should not have been a trait in the first place due to heavy reliance on it in build compositions.

So yeah. 7 seconds?

7s seems fair , also the main problem with war atm is that they messed up the trait synergy when they wanted to kill shoutbow/hambow, body blow and distracting strikes shouldnt be on strenght trait line , maybe in tactics and/or discipline and move burst precision and phalanx strenght to strenght.
Also maybe remove the resistance boon of healing signet and make it part of restorative strenght , so that way every war healing has the potential to provide resistance at least for 3-5s.
And last but not least resistance buff shoulf have the least prio to be corrupted , like thief w steal(steal has a boon steal prio with stability so is always an interrupt), so that way resistance is more viable for every class and necro would be more in line.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

While i do belive too that fast hands should be base line i belive 5s is too much , maybe they can do the same they did with bursts and make the baseline weapon swap for war a 7-8s CD and reduce the rest with the minor trait.

Oh sweet Jesus, someone responded!

I see your point and you do raise a valid concern. With so many “on weapon swap” effects, 7 Seconds does seem like a reasonable proposition. To be fair, I wasn’t really sure what the reasoning is for getting fast hands baselined other than “mesmers got a bunch of kitten baselined, so why can’t warriors?”.

I did say however, that “traits should not be something the profession heavily relies on, but something that the profession could use to improve itself in specific situations.” in my design philosophy, so my general idea was that fast hands should not have been a trait in the first place due to heavy reliance on it in build compositions.

So yeah. 7 seconds?

7s seems fair , also the main problem with war atm is that they messed up the trait synergy when they wanted to kill shoutbow/hambow, body blow and distracting strikes shouldnt be on strenght trait line , maybe in tactics and/or discipline and move burst precision and phalanx strenght to strenght.
Also maybe remove the resistance boon of healing signet and make it part of restorative strenght , so that way every war healing has the potential to provide resistance at least for 3-5s.
And last but not least resistance buff shoulf have the least prio to be corrupted , like thief w steal(steal has a boon steal prio with stability so is always an interrupt), so that way resistance is more viable for every class and necro would be more in line.

I agree that body blow and distracting strikes don’t belong on the strength line, so I merged distracting strikes and body blow into unsuspecting foe to create “concussive strikes”, in the major master class of arm specialization

Stuns, dazes, knockbacks, pulls, pushes, and launches inflict bleeding (1 stacks bleeding, 4 seconds) and weakness (4 seconds). Cause confusion (2 stacks confusion, 4 seconds) when you interrupt a foe’s skill. Increase critical hit chance against disabled foes. (Critical hit chance: 50%)

Note that all effects last a maximum of 4 seconds, and confusion and weakness stack amount is nerfed. Despite this, it feels “full” on paper, but I’m unsure how it will play out in actual gaming. Thoughts? (Take some time to go over the entire traits page, a lot has changed.)

I’m a bit cautious about giving restorative strength resistance, due to how strong it is. Besides that, what about healing signet itself? What will it’s active be? Also, do you think the passive is too strong to be a passive?

You have a good point on the boon corruption/rip/steal priority, but that goes beyond the scope of this balance proposal. So far, I only suggested changes for the warrior profession. I know what you’re thinking though- berserker’s stance’s vulnerability to boon theft/corruption/ripping. I suggested that it just remove all conditions and grant you immunity for a slightly shorter duration.

edit/ oh, also check out empowered grandmaster trait in strength specialization. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.


If ArenaNet takes these suggestions seriously and say something in this thread, I’ll make another thorough breakdown of all other professions, as well as runes, sigils, boons, and conditions…

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: ds dante.3209

ds dante.3209

While i do belive too that fast hands should be base line i belive 5s is too much , maybe they can do the same they did with bursts and make the baseline weapon swap for war a 7-8s CD and reduce the rest with the minor trait.

Oh sweet Jesus, someone responded!

I see your point and you do raise a valid concern. With so many “on weapon swap” effects, 7 Seconds does seem like a reasonable proposition. To be fair, I wasn’t really sure what the reasoning is for getting fast hands baselined other than “mesmers got a bunch of kitten baselined, so why can’t warriors?”.

I did say however, that “traits should not be something the profession heavily relies on, but something that the profession could use to improve itself in specific situations.” in my design philosophy, so my general idea was that fast hands should not have been a trait in the first place due to heavy reliance on it in build compositions.

So yeah. 7 seconds?

7s seems fair , also the main problem with war atm is that they messed up the trait synergy when they wanted to kill shoutbow/hambow, body blow and distracting strikes shouldnt be on strenght trait line , maybe in tactics and/or discipline and move burst precision and phalanx strenght to strenght.
Also maybe remove the resistance boon of healing signet and make it part of restorative strenght , so that way every war healing has the potential to provide resistance at least for 3-5s.
And last but not least resistance buff shoulf have the least prio to be corrupted , like thief w steal(steal has a boon steal prio with stability so is always an interrupt), so that way resistance is more viable for every class and necro would be more in line.

I agree that body blow and distracting strikes don’t belong on the strength line, so I merged distracting strikes and body blow into unsuspecting foe to create “concussive strikes”, in the major master class of arm specialization

Stuns, dazes, knockbacks, pulls, pushes, and launches inflict bleeding (1 stacks bleeding, 4 seconds) and weakness (4 seconds). Cause confusion (2 stacks confusion, 4 seconds) when you interrupt a foe’s skill. Increase critical hit chance against disabled foes. (Critical hit chance: 50%)

Note that all effects last a maximum of 4 seconds, and confusion and weakness stack amount is nerfed. Despite this, it feels “full” on paper, but I’m unsure how it will play out in actual gaming. Thoughts? (Take some time to go over the entire traits page, a lot has changed.)

I’m a bit cautious about giving restorative strength resistance, due to how strong it is. Besides that, what about healing signet itself? What will it’s active be? Also, do you think the passive is too strong to be a passive?

You have a good point on the boon corruption/rip/steal priority, but that goes beyond the scope of this balance proposal. So far, I only suggested changes for the warrior profession. I know what you’re thinking though- berserker’s stance’s vulnerability to boon theft/corruption/ripping. I suggested that it just remove all conditions and grant you immunity for a slightly shorter duration.

edit/ oh, also check out empowered grandmaster trait in strength specialization. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.


If ArenaNet takes these suggestions seriously and say something in this thread, I’ll make another thorough breakdown of all other professions, as well as runes, sigils, boons, and conditions…

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.
Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.
Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 7 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: ds dante.3209

ds dante.3209

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration afterwards. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 5 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

Remove 3 conditions + 3-5s of immunity is more than enough for justa stance , the resistance after immune is an overkill.But tbh still don’t like the idea to return to an immunity so i rather prefer the shorter resistance pulses.
Most of the power builds (the one’s i thing should be using the strenght trair line) rely more on the burst critical damage , so i feel like strenght GM is a better spot for it , maybe instead of axe mastery(maybe move axe mastry to master level).
Burning arrows like merciless hammer and forceful greatsword affect a 2h weapon , so it affects an entire 5 skill set unlike quick breathing (2 skills), so i belive all traits that boost 2h weaps should go to GM level.
Still signet of rage sounds too underwhelming in the current boon corrupt meta to evben consider it , and we’re talking about an elite skill.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration afterwards. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 5 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

Remove 3 conditions + 3-5s of immunity is more than enough for justa stance , the resistance after immune is an overkill.But tbh still don’t like the idea to return to an immunity so i rather prefer the shorter resistance pulses.
Most of the power builds (the one’s i thing should be using the strenght trair line) rely more on the burst critical damage , so i feel like strenght GM is a better spot for it , maybe instead of axe mastery(maybe move axe mastry to master level).
Burning arrows like merciless hammer and forceful greatsword affect a 2h weapon , so it affects an entire 5 skill set unlike quick breathing (2 skills), so i belive all traits that boost 2h weaps should go to GM level.
Still signet of rage sounds too underwhelming in the current boon corrupt meta to evben consider it , and we’re talking about an elite skill.

I get where you’re going at now..

Problem is, now the master class of the tactics specialization will have both quick breathing and shrug it off, which accomplish similar things. Quick breathing overshadows shrug it off, due to it’s ability to convert conditions to boons.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: ds dante.3209

ds dante.3209

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration afterwards. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 5 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

Remove 3 conditions + 3-5s of immunity is more than enough for justa stance , the resistance after immune is an overkill.But tbh still don’t like the idea to return to an immunity so i rather prefer the shorter resistance pulses.
Most of the power builds (the one’s i thing should be using the strenght trair line) rely more on the burst critical damage , so i feel like strenght GM is a better spot for it , maybe instead of axe mastery(maybe move axe mastry to master level).
Burning arrows like merciless hammer and forceful greatsword affect a 2h weapon , so it affects an entire 5 skill set unlike quick breathing (2 skills), so i belive all traits that boost 2h weaps should go to GM level.
Still signet of rage sounds too underwhelming in the current boon corrupt meta to evben consider it , and we’re talking about an elite skill.

I get where you’re going at now..

Problem is, now the master class of the tactics specialization will have both quick breathing and shrug it off, which accomplish similar things. Quick breathing overshadows shrug it off, due to it’s ability to convert conditions to boons.

Then maybe the mistake is having both on the same traitline….

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration afterwards. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 5 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

Remove 3 conditions + 3-5s of immunity is more than enough for justa stance , the resistance after immune is an overkill.But tbh still don’t like the idea to return to an immunity so i rather prefer the shorter resistance pulses.
Most of the power builds (the one’s i thing should be using the strenght trair line) rely more on the burst critical damage , so i feel like strenght GM is a better spot for it , maybe instead of axe mastery(maybe move axe mastry to master level).
Burning arrows like merciless hammer and forceful greatsword affect a 2h weapon , so it affects an entire 5 skill set unlike quick breathing (2 skills), so i belive all traits that boost 2h weaps should go to GM level.
Still signet of rage sounds too underwhelming in the current boon corrupt meta to evben consider it , and we’re talking about an elite skill.

I get where you’re going at now..

Problem is, now the master class of the tactics specialization will have both quick breathing and shrug it off, which accomplish similar things. Quick breathing overshadows shrug it off, due to it’s ability to convert conditions to boons.

Then maybe the mistake is having both on the same traitline….

Now we’re getting somewhere. I moved quick breathing to master under discipline, swapped with “empowering concentration”

Increases boon duration by 10%. Damage nearby foes when you receive a boon from an ally (5 targets, 180 radius, less damage than reckless dodging, cooldown: 4 second)

Does this look better to you? I like this more.

Other changes: changed how decapitate worked; it will now just make a shock wave, like guardian’s wave of wrath- instead of leaping and creating a shockwave behind your target

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

in Warrior

Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

The restorative strenght resistance boon + last buff of war will make the rest of the war healing skills more viable , healing signet’s passive is way too good atm that’s why 95% of the wars use it, maybe add a couple of conditions to buff conversions on the active effect would make for the resistance boon removal.

I don’t know about that. Resistance is a strong boon- like protection, and to convert conditions to boons on heal is also very strong. Besides that, that doesn’t sound like something that would go under the strength specialization. More like something from tactics or discipline.

Also berserker stance it’s ok atm , i actually find it better in most scenarios, only the boon corruption make it look like a nerf , the only change i would make to berseker stance is the pulse interval , change it to 1s of resistance with a 1s pulse so you reduce the boon corrupt/rip to a minimum effect, every immunity is bad for the game(look at diamond skin or mesmer for an example) so i’m ok with the fact that they changed this , also the condition removal would make the signet of stamina useless so imo that’s unnecesary for this skill.

The thing is, I actually removed signet of stamina (turned to berserker’s signet- which increases condition damage and duration if activated). Removing all conditions is quite useless especially how everyone throws conditions left and right. After removing all conditions, you get a 60 second cooldown and that’s just not a good signet. If anything, I will miss the endurance regeneration more but yeah…

You bring up an interesting perspective on berserker’s stance, though. While i’ll normally say that immunity is bad for game balance, it’s already everywhere in the game. Invulnerability, defy pain, etc. Anyways, I changed it a bit. Let me know what you think,

Remove 3 conditions and become immune to new conditions for 3 seconds. Pulse resistance for a short duration afterwards. (1 second resistance, 1 second boon application interval, 5 second duration)

Traits:
Burst precision to strenght line instead of empowered.
Burning arrows:current effect + 10% arrack speed with longbow , also swap withquick breathing for grandmaster spot.
Weapon Skills:
Final Thrust:Reduce damage but add bleed or torment (sword is a condi based weap not power).
Flaming Flurry :let it keep it’s direct sword hit bleed effect from regular burst.
Rupturing smash:Let it keep it’s base burst AoE and daze eff , but add vulnerability instead of immov.
Elite:
Rampage CD is fine.
Signet of rage:Make the boons a short duration pulses like berserker stance cause the excesive amount of boon rip/corruption make it’s active effect almost useless for an elite.

  • Would you mind elaborating why burst precision fits better in strength?
  • Also why burning arrows is worthy of grandmaster?
  • Final thrust suggestion makes sense, i’ll think about it further.
  • Flaming flurry already deals a lot of damage from the burning, don’t think a buff is necessary at this point.
  • Rupturing smash suggestion could make sense; but then that’s something sundering leap kinda does already.
  • Rampage can go both ways. In my opinion however, it’s very lopsided in a sense that it’s so strong yet sits on such a long cooldown, it’s hard to make use of this. Currently has a .0833333 uptime, reducing it will make it 0.1 uptime. Reduce damage dealt while in berserk to compensate.
  • In regards with signet of rage, I think it’s fine. I know there’s a lot of boon hate, but it’s normal for game balance. Need valid counters vs warriors and I’ll give them this at least.

Remove 3 conditions + 3-5s of immunity is more than enough for justa stance , the resistance after immune is an overkill.But tbh still don’t like the idea to return to an immunity so i rather prefer the shorter resistance pulses.
Most of the power builds (the one’s i thing should be using the strenght trair line) rely more on the burst critical damage , so i feel like strenght GM is a better spot for it , maybe instead of axe mastery(maybe move axe mastry to master level).
Burning arrows like merciless hammer and forceful greatsword affect a 2h weapon , so it affects an entire 5 skill set unlike quick breathing (2 skills), so i belive all traits that boost 2h weaps should go to GM level.
Still signet of rage sounds too underwhelming in the current boon corrupt meta to evben consider it , and we’re talking about an elite skill.

I get where you’re going at now..

Problem is, now the master class of the tactics specialization will have both quick breathing and shrug it off, which accomplish similar things. Quick breathing overshadows shrug it off, due to it’s ability to convert conditions to boons.

Then maybe the mistake is having both on the same traitline….

Now we’re getting somewhere. I moved quick breathing to master under discipline, swapped with “empowering concentration”

Increases boon duration by 10%. Damage nearby foes when you receive a boon from an ally (5 targets, 180 radius, less damage than reckless dodging, cooldown: 4 second)

Does this look better to you? I like this more.

Other changes: changed how decapitate worked; it will now just make a shock wave, like guardian’s wave of wrath- instead of leaping and creating a shockwave behind your target

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Posted by: Rekt.5360

Rekt.5360

My feedback on the weapon sets I have the most experience with, mostly negative

First, I have to say I very strongly disagree with the hammer changes. I’ll take weakness on fierce blow over higher dmg anyday. I don’t know about you but my Fierce Blows go upwards of 5k in dmg when they crit. I feel that’s perfectly fine for a high telegraphed skill that has very small range on a weapon with somewhat little mobility already. The weakness also helps the weapon set greatly. One of the things that screws up hammer the most is dodges. Weakness->Less dodging->easier to land attacks. Weakness also reduces the dmg dealt to you. As a hugely telegraphed and slow weapon hammer leaves you very open especially if you happen to miss staggering blow. The rest of the abilities are so slow that you’ll have a hard time landing any of them without prior setup (except Hammer Shock) and will end up taking a lot of dmg, the weapon has 0 defensive capacities, the weakness application is pretty much the only thing it has. Keep it that way.

I also disagree with the CD increase. 30 seconds on backbreaker given the current state of the game is just no, I’m glad they changed it. Going through 6 weapon swaps before it’s available again is awful, especially considering its cast time. Such an obvious skill albeit strong should not have such a long CD. The other CD changes to the weapon were also welcome. If you want to increase the CD on hammer weapons then better reduce the ridiculous amount of stability, evade frames and blinds that got added with HoT. Otherwise you’ll have what we had since HoT hit, no hammer warrs performing well outside of using clutch rampage. Most warriors actually swapped to gs/axe+shield because its dmg output didn’t really on heavily telegraphed skills as much, and the weapon set generally did not rely on CC to deal its damage.

I also disagree with the changes to arc divider and arcing slice. Arcing slice is fine as it is and warrior do not have access to plenty of fury at all (at least while running most “viable” PvP builds). You only have decent access to fury if you use signet of rage and even then its not even 50% uptime. Leave the dmg increase for foes below 50%, the ability actually has potential as a finisher. I also think unblockable/unavoidable+daze is a very bad idea. Unavoidable is pretty self-explanatory but if you make it also unblockable and add a daze you essentially remove half of the counter play available to counter this skill…

Now arc divider, why the heck would you make that a condi skill on a power weapon? That’s just a terrible idea, you completely shaft anybody wanting to run a power berserker build using GS. And let’s be honest pure condi builds never really ran GS in the first place. Also, 10 (!!!!!!!!!!!) stacks of bleeding on a 15 second duration is INSANEEEEEEEE. You can presently lower the CD to 2.5 seconds and easily gain enough adrenaline to use it that often, and even if the CD remained ~4ish seconds can you even imagine what the heck would happen if you had a cleaving 10 stacks of bleeding for 15 seconds EVERY 2.5/4 SECONDS!? That’d be so broken that it would probably actually be stronger overall dmg even on a power build with a few might stacks than the current arc divider. Even if its a single condition, 10 stacks of bleeding hits so hard you’d still force a condi cleanse every 1-2 arc dividers and that’s on a power build, a condi build would probably kill you in half the duration of a berserker mode.

Now axe, oh loooord, so we need eviscerate to be even easier to dodge BY WARNING PEOPLE THAT THEY MIGHT GET HIT??? And also adding half a second after cast to make it even more punishable than it already is? True dmg on eviscerate sounds broke as f. It’s essentially a 1 shot if the guy is below 40% HP, and he can’t even mitigate it by wearing an amulet that’s supposed to make him resistant to direct dmg?

Decapitate being a single shockwave seems fine but you have to consider that it already does do very good cleave damage to foes behind your target if you hit your primary target. And that’s what makes it sort of balanced. You get greater rewards out of landing it if you waited for the right moment and positioned yourself as to have other players behind your target. With your changes it becomes an even more spam-friendly skill since it doesn’t even require you to hit any of the targets directly in the first place. The range is gigantic though which I really don’t think should be the case with axe at all. Axe has always been a very close range high dmg output mostly single target weapon with low mobility, now you give it range and AoE >< True dmg on decapitate, unlike eviscerate is its downfall. It does absolutely pathetic dmg to anybody above 40% health. If the target happens to be bunky and have decent access to heals, and you enter berserker mode with axe you will be reduced to spamming auto chains because decapitate will hit like a noodle nearly all the time.

The knockback on whirlwing axe seems broken too. It’s 15 hits, if every one of the procs a knockback can you imagine the madness this would cause with traits that inflict condis on interrupts/knockbacks? I mean even completely disregarding condi on CC traits, that would be flat out broken because you’d pretty much instantly eat through any stability and CC lock the target for the rest of the duration of the cast. Can you imagine trying to rez somebody with a warrior running axe off-hand on the opposite team? Gravedigger on reaper GS is already a great rez denial, but it’s also a 1.25 second long cast single hitter means it can easily be blinded or avoided, have a thief dump a black smoke on the downed and the reaper trying to cleave with gravedigger will have every single one miss as long as the blind field is there. With Whirling axe you just cannot rez without popping a straight up invulnerability or hoping the warrior has no stability so you can CC him before he gets to you. If you pop a stability skill, well it gets shredded by Spin2Win, pop a direct dmg immunity, well you’ll get knockback spammed for the next 3 seconds.

I don’t know how these will reflect on PvE but arc divider would be flipping broken there that’s for sure, but for PvP many of these would make us trash in many cases but absolutely broken in others. My apologies for the negative feedback, but from a PvP’er’s perspective that’s how it is, at least for the 3 weapon sets I discussed.

Vanov {Warrior} ~ Still waiting for “Guide on Making Proper ||#1 Warr NA|| Sig”

(edited by Rekt.5360)

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

OK.. some trait idea’s are nice and some weapon stuff.. but some other stuff i really hate!

Nerf to GS trait :-(
Nerf to GS Arc divider (60% dmg nerf to get more condi? lol its a power weapon! my god this skill cant do more then 1000 dmg? hahah tjeez yes lets get GS so i can apply some bleeding and do kitten burst.

Hello, and thank you for sharing your concerns. Someone else had a similar concern regarding the arc divider nerf and I replied with the following.


…I completely agree with you. However, it’s arguable that the situation is caused by the fact that greatsword is just so.. great. The fact that it’s amazing is a critical flaw in design balance for warrior, and the fact that it does everything takes away everything from every other weapon set. It stole the identity of axe.

…..

In regards with the greatsword nerf, consider arc divider is hitting 5 targets and conditions ignore toughness and armor. At level 80 with 0 condition damage stat, 10 stacks of bleeding deals 220 damage per second. At 15 seconds, it will deal 3,300 DoT, with about 1,000 damage for a total of 4,400 damage. Also 5% increased damage on bleeding foes if taking up arms specialization. The damage should still be there- just moved into a condition variant. In terms of intraprofession balance, there needs to be an identity separation between arcing slice and arc divider. Arc divider is currently superior in every way…

Rifle:
In general they made allot of good changes, but then you nerf gun flame dmg by 90%
90%!!!!!!! Wuuu? to get some more burning? again, i dont go for Rifle to do some condi! its a power weapon. and this skill also can’t deal more then 1000 dmg also?

level 80, 0 condition damage stat
131 damage per tick per stack
3 stacks
20 seconds
7,860 DoT + at least 1,000 on hit damage = total 8,860 damage

Sorry, but gun flame’s cheap shots need to go. One shotting players with an attack with a 0.3 cast time (+15% attack speed + quickness in traits) with a 100% accelerated velocity projectile for over 10k damage on 5 second cooldown needing only 10 adrenaline is not good for game balance. That was what I came up with though. How would this skill change to allow for better balance?

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/217073/wtf.jpg

I also hate your killshot idea.. maby it sounds nice in PVE or something but in pvp this would be bad.. based on player HP..so now hit someone for 2000 dmg if you target has full HP? No pls i really dont want more stuff behind HP %.. its annoying.

You’re going to be able to one shot players at about 55% HP at level 3 adrenaline without the need of damage modifiers and damage based traits- making you more sustainable in combat as well. No skill should be able to 1 shot 15k HP targets.

http://i.imgur.com/XWP9aKF.jpg

I have to say I very strongly disagree with the hammer changes. I’ll take weakness on fierce blow over higher dmg anyday. I don’t know about you but my Fierce Blows go upwards of 5k in dmg when they crit. I feel that’s perfectly fine for a high telegraphed skill that has very small range on a weapon with somewhat little mobility already. The weakness also helps the weapon set greatly. One of the things that screws up hammer the most is dodges. Weakness->Less dodging->easier to land attacks. Weakness also reduces the dmg dealt to you. As a hugely telegraphed and slow weapon hammer leaves you very open especially if you happen to miss staggering blow. The rest of the abilities are so slow that you’ll have a hard time landing any of them without prior setup (except Hammer Shock) and will end up taking a lot of dmg, the weapon has 0 defensive capacities, the weakness application is pretty much the only thing it has. Keep it that way. I also disagree with the CD increase. 30 seconds on backbreaker given the current state of the game is just no, I’m glad they changed it. Going through 6 weapon swaps before it’s available again is awful, especially considering its cast time. Such an obvious skill albeit strong should not have such a long CD. The other CD changes to the weapon were also welcome. If you want to increase the CD on hammer weapons then better reduce the ridiculous amount of stability, evade frames and blinds that got added with HoT. Otherwise you’ll have what we had since HoT hit, no hammer warrs performing well outside of using clutch rampage. Most warriors actually swapped to gs/axe+shield because its dmg output didn’t really on heavily telegraphed skills as much, and the weapon set generally did not rely on CC to deal its damage.

You actually make a good point. I made the damage buff out of another suggestion from another player, but glad you’re adding to the discussion. I put back the weakness, and made it a 10% increase in damage.

You also bring up valid concern about the cooldown reverts. While there are a lot of counters to control effects, (evades, stability, stun breaks, etc) the only thing more annoying to see your control become ineffective is to get helplessly tossed around with the CC.

What I don’t want to see is mindless CC using the hammer whenever it’s on cooldown. It needs to be used strategically.

I understand what you’re saying though, and I did give this some thought and gave some traits to counter other builds with high stability up time.

Absolute Control, Major Master Strength

Absolute Control: New trait: Foes that break your control (stun / knockdown etc) will be immobilized. (Immobilize: 1.5 seconds, Cooldown: 20 seconds). Removing stability from foes applies cripple. (Cripple, 3 second duration per stack of stability removed)

Merciless Hammer, Major Grandmaster Discipline

Hammer skills are granted special effects based on adrenaline level. (Adrenaline stage 1: Hammer skills crush armor – converting protection on foes into 3 seconds of vulnerability, Adrenaline stage 2: Hammer skills have an extended attacking distance of 260 distance, Adrenaline stage 3: Hammer skills are unblockable) Recharge reduced on hammer skills (Recharge reduced:20%)

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

I also disagree with the changes to arc divider and arcing slice. Arcing slice is fine as it is and warrior do not have access to plenty of fury at all (at least while running most “viable” PvP builds). You only have decent access to fury if you use signet of rage and even then its not even 50% uptime. Leave the dmg increase for foes below 50%, the ability actually has potential as a finisher. I also think unblockable/unavoidable+daze is a very bad idea. Unavoidable is pretty self-explanatory but if you make it also unblockable and add a daze you essentially remove half of the counter play available to counter this skill…

Now arc divider, why the heck would you make that a condi skill on a power weapon? That’s just a terrible idea, you completely shaft anybody wanting to run a power berserker build using GS. And let’s be honest pure condi builds never really ran GS in the first place. Also, 10 (!!!!!!!!!!!) stacks of bleeding on a 15 second duration is INSANEEEEEEEE. You can presently lower the CD to 2.5 seconds and easily gain enough adrenaline to use it that often, and even if the CD remained ~4ish seconds can you even imagine what the heck would happen if you had a cleaving 10 stacks of bleeding for 15 seconds EVERY 2.5/4 SECONDS!? That’d be so broken that it would probably actually be stronger overall dmg even on a power build with a few might stacks than the current arc divider. Even if its a single condition, 10 stacks of bleeding hits so hard you’d still force a condi cleanse every 1-2 arc dividers and that’s on a power build, a condi build would probably kill you in half the duration of a berserker mode.

Rekt, thank you for your thorough criticism. It’s interesting that you acknowledge the bleeding on arc divider to be strong, because you’re the first. Everyone thinks its just a nerf.

Anyways, that’s what I came up with. Greatsword stole the identity of other weapon sets, so I made the changes according to it’s theme- versatility.

Under this proposal, there is no cooldown reduction trait on berserk mode and primal bursts, for reasons you specified.

Now axe, oh loooord, so we need eviscerate to be even easier to dodge BY WARNING PEOPLE THAT THEY MIGHT GET HIT??? And also adding half a second after cast to make it even more punishable than it already is? True dmg on eviscerate sounds broke as f. It’s essentially a 1 shot if the guy is below 40% HP, and he can’t even mitigate it by wearing an amulet that’s supposed to make him resistant to direct dmg?

Decapitate being a single shockwave seems fine but you have to consider that it already does do very good cleave damage to foes behind your target if you hit your primary target. And that’s what makes it sort of balanced. You get greater rewards out of landing it if you waited for the right moment and positioned yourself as to have other players behind your target. With your changes it becomes an even more spam-friendly skill since it doesn’t even require you to hit any of the targets directly in the first place. The range is gigantic though which I really don’t think should be the case with axe at all. Axe has always been a very close range high dmg output mostly single target weapon with low mobility, now you give it range and AoE >< True dmg on decapitate, unlike eviscerate is its downfall. It does absolutely pathetic dmg to anybody above 40% health. If the target happens to be bunky and have decent access to heals, and you enter berserker mode with axe you will be reduced to spamming auto chains because decapitate will hit like a noodle nearly all the time.

Hm

I think you explained it pretty well. Yes, eviscerate will one shot you if you’re under 40% HP, but you also explained the drawbacks to using the skill pretty well. Compare this with gun flame, which one shots you with a 100% velocity shot at 100% HP, I think eviscerate is reasonable. It will allow for strategic use over mindless spamming- timing when your target exhausts it’s endurance. What are your suggestions for this skill?

I guess decapitate’s range could be nerfed a bit, you’re right that 600 range might be a bit far. Also decapitate will finish off a mob of 5 enemies under 20% HP and instantly refill your adrenaline and restore the recharge of the skill, so it makes it’s use more strategic than mindlessly spamming it on bunkers.

The knockback on whirlwing axe seems broken too. It’s 15 hits, if every one of the procs a knockback can you imagine the madness this would cause with traits that inflict condis on interrupts/knockbacks? I mean even completely disregarding condi on CC traits, that would be flat out broken because you’d pretty much instantly eat through any stability and CC lock the target for the rest of the duration of the cast. Can you imagine trying to rez somebody with a warrior running axe off-hand on the opposite team? Gravedigger on reaper GS is already a great rez denial, but it’s also a 1.25 second long cast single hitter means it can easily be blinded or avoided, have a thief dump a black smoke on the downed and the reaper trying to cleave with gravedigger will have every single one miss as long as the blind field is there. With Whirling axe you just cannot rez without popping a straight up invulnerability or hoping the warrior has no stability so you can CC him before he gets to you. If you pop a stability skill, well it gets shredded by Spin2Win, pop a direct dmg immunity, well you’ll get knockback spammed for the next 3 seconds.

I don’t know how these will reflect on PvE but arc divider would be flipping broken there that’s for sure, but for PvP many of these would make us trash in many cases but absolutely broken in others.

You have a valid point. I drew inspiration to design this from repeating shot (harpoon skill) which does almost the same thing. How about knockback every 3 attacks in the skill? so it will strip 5 stability instead of 15?

My apologies for the negative feedback, but from a PvP’er’s perspective that’s how it is, at least for the 3 weapon sets I discussed.

Not at all, thanks for sharing. Helps refine these better. Take a look at the other balance fixes and let me know what you think.

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

So Because you find Arc divider and Gun flame to good, they have to be a CONDI burst? nomather how long you make that condi! NOBODY would like that!! you say if you do this much dmg + the LOOOONG condi it would do good dmg.. ( i even have to spec arms for the +5% dmg on bleeding foes just because this 1 burst get bleeding?? Anet didnt removed bleeding on rifle for no reason.. but all that just to do 5k dmg over 15sec! WOW!! my god WOW!! yeeee)
Even if you gave it a 1 bleed stack for a MILLION seconds it would still be ALLOT worse, you know why? cleansing! if i go for rifle/gs i go for PURE DMG! not condi! you just HATE gs/rifle players so you nerf EVERY way to do that, by traits by bursts.

You arguments are totally flawed! you also make annoying HP% restriction to even deal good dmg with killshot! killshot issnt that easy to land but you want to nerf it more. all because you think it should be like that!

At this point, I’m not sure where you’re going with your statements.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback

If you go this way, why not make “true shot” on 40 sec cooldown?
Why not make “Rapid fire” a 5sec casttime again and nerf the dmg because its cheap..

And again it does not make sense that you nerf a weapon because its good, and slap it with a condi burst while the weapon is CLEARLY power based.

I may do a re-balance suggestion for other professions, but this is looking solely at the warrior.

No i dont like these changes, and you dont speak for us all also, so you cant say that X weapon needs it because you say so.

Never said these suggestions reflected what you wanted. It’s like politics. I know not everyone will like these ideas, but these are my suggestions on game balance. If you oppose these, you could suggest that everything stays how they are now, or create your own suggestion.

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

And for your concern!
What many people mentioned and agreed on Gunflame is to give it a better animation and maby nerf some of its dmg like 10-15%.. NOT 90% like you mentioned and then give it a LOOOOOONG cooldown so in the end you can say its decent! NO it not decent to smack it with a looong boring condi on a power weapon

long cooldown as in 5 seconds?

edit/ @nicknamednick.2437 bye.

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

I also disagree with the changes to arc divider and arcing slice. Arcing slice is fine as it is and warrior do not have access to plenty of fury at all (at least while running most “viable” PvP builds). You only have decent access to fury if you use signet of rage and even then its not even 50% uptime. Leave the dmg increase for foes below 50%, the ability actually has potential as a finisher. I also think unblockable/unavoidable+daze is a very bad idea. Unavoidable is pretty self-explanatory but if you make it also unblockable and add a daze you essentially remove half of the counter play available to counter this skill…

Thought about what you said. Reintroduced fury, removed unavoidable. Thanks for your constructive feedback

edit/ changed gunflame, arc divider, flaming flurry, and flames of war.

(edited by TheBravery.9615)

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Posted by: Jae.5138

Jae.5138

i dont agree with the proposed changes for berserker stance. it was one of few utilities that truly gave us the ability to gap close and act as a threat to classes like necro. now it’s worthless as you can be blinded, immobilized, feared, chilled and crippled all day long. most warriors would agree that the old berserker stance was better. i’d say 3 condi removal on top of the old mechanic is better.

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

i dont agree with the proposed changes for berserker stance. it was one of few utilities that truly gave us the ability to gap close and act as a threat to classes like necro. now it’s worthless as you can be blinded, immobilized, feared, chilled and crippled all day long. most warriors would agree that the old berserker stance was better. i’d say 3 condi removal on top of the old mechanic is better.

Thank you for adding your feedback.
I originally had it at “remove 3 conditions and gain 3 second immunity and 6 second resistance”, but my discussion with ds dante (see above) convinced me that hard immunity is not a good idea for game balance.

The original berserker stance and the new berserker stance (in game now) have their tradeoffs. The old one didn’t do anything about existing conditions, while the new one made existing conditions ineffective. A primary concern with the new berserker stance was in regards with the necro corrupt boons buff; however, by reducing the boon application interval to 1 second, the corruptions should (theoretically) be less effective.

oh, and since resistance is a boon, it is influenced by the concentration stat, so that’s a plus there too.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

you know, Dogged March actually works quite well with Berserker’s stance as the resistance actually makes the conditions not effect the warrior and dogged march actually shorten’s their duration. It’s just too bad that there is so little synergy with other condis. I’d like to see more synergy between traits and skills like this., which i feel is a major problem with the warrior.

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

you know, Dogged March actually works quite well with Berserker’s stance as the resistance actually makes the conditions not effect the warrior and dogged march actually shorten’s their duration. It’s just too bad that there is so little synergy with other condis. I’d like to see more synergy between traits and skills like this., which i feel is a major problem with the warrior.

What are you suggesting? I’m listening.

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Posted by: Jae.5138

Jae.5138

This is a very well thought out list of changes and I’m impressed. What really makes me sad is that Anet is probably going to print this out, run it straight through the shredder, and go: ‘lets give them another 3% in healing signet lol’

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

This is a very well thought out list of changes and I’m impressed. What really makes me sad is that Anet is probably going to print this out, run it straight through the shredder, and go: ‘lets give them another 3% in healing signet lol’

haha thanks

I have sent this to Robert and Karl through private message, both of which have opened (not sure read). Neither of them have replied.

Despite this, it’s possible that someone at ArenaNet is paying attention to this. I almost always see an anonymous animal viewing the document, and it may be coincidence, but Mending and To the Limit’s healing amount was buffed to almost the same amount I specified in these spread sheets. Wishful thinking to say the least.

Thanks for dropping by. Be sure to leave comments and concerns on anything you find peculiar.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

This is a very well thought out list of changes and I’m impressed. What really makes me sad is that Anet is probably going to print this out, run it straight through the shredder, and go: ‘lets give them another 3% in healing signet lol’

Actually you will know if they really don’t care if they move this thread to the Community Creations Thread like they did my Guild Wars Redone Article.

TheBravery.9615
emkelly.2371:
you know, Dogged March actually works quite well with Berserker’s stance as the resistance actually makes the conditions not effect the warrior and dogged march actually shorten’s their duration. It’s just too bad that there is so little synergy with other condis. I’d like to see more synergy between traits and skills like this., which i feel is a major problem with the warrior.
What are you suggesting? I’m listening.

Okay an example.

Spiked Armor

  • Protection+Retaliation is a must.
  • Give us another way to access retaliation though the use of a skill.
  • Retaliation and protection are nice, but you don’t get it when you need it. Retaliation on demand would be nice. I’d suggest the mace, as the weapon lacks any true itentity, so something like Mace 3 could grant retaliation which procs Protection turning the mace into a true defensive weapon.

(edited by emkelly.2371)

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

This is a very well thought out list of changes and I’m impressed. What really makes me sad is that Anet is probably going to print this out, run it straight through the shredder, and go: ‘lets give them another 3% in healing signet lol’

Actually you will know if they really don’t care if they move this thread to the Community Creations Thread like they did my Guild Wars Redone Article.

TheBravery.9615
emkelly.2371:
you know, Dogged March actually works quite well with Berserker’s stance as the resistance actually makes the conditions not effect the warrior and dogged march actually shorten’s their duration. It’s just too bad that there is so little synergy with other condis. I’d like to see more synergy between traits and skills like this., which i feel is a major problem with the warrior.
What are you suggesting? I’m listening.

Okay an example.

Spiked Armor

  • Protection+Retaliation is a must.
  • Give us another way to access retaliation though the use of a skill.
  • Retaliation and protection are nice, but you don’t get it when you need it. Retaliation on demand would be nice. I’d suggest the mace, as the weapon lacks any true itentity, so something like Mace 3 could grant retaliation which procs Protection turning the mace into a true defensive weapon.

Thanks for sharing your creativity.

I originally had retaliation built into my iteration of “eternal champion”, seen below:

Activating berserk mode break stuns. Gain stability (1 stack, 4 second stability), protection (3 second protection), and vigor (4 second vigor) while in berserk (Boon application interval: 4 seconds)

But I ended up removing it and turning it into vigor, because my spiked armor iteration gives -6% incoming damage, and 39% damage mitigation on demand doesn’t seem balanced to me. In fact, I even dropped the protection boon’s duration to allow a window for counter-play for other professions in PvP. I want to make the warrior sustainable, but not in a way that it’s more sustainable than a guardian, because that’s what they do. Besides, I also need to consider the warrior’s massive health pool.

Boons on weapons is an interesting idea, but that seems to me like it’s something more fitting on the guardian than a warrior.. despite this, something else could happen with mace 2 (counterblow)’s adrenaline gain.

[Suggestion] Warrior Balance

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Changed mace 2 adrenaline gain into 5 second retaliation.

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Posted by: Rekt.5360

Rekt.5360

Glad to see my feedback made you change some things I still have slightly differring opinions about arcing slice but whatever, its fine if we can’t share the same opinion. I’ll focus on traits this time.

First, Glad to see you changed unsuspecting foe in arms and merged it with body blow, I was gonna suggest moving body blow to arms myself. I don’t rly like the changes to the strength line tbh :S power warrior relies sooo much on that 20% dmg increase from berserker’s power its incredible. And considering how fast we cap the might stacks through all our traits/runes granting might I really can’t see it as being that relevant >< I would’ve personally moved Axe mastery down to master tier to replace body blow and introduced a new grandmaster that increases the dmg on our next attack if it gets evaded, something like:

  • Vengeful Strikes: Whenever one of your attacks gets evaded or misses your next attack deals (20/25/30% will have to decide) more damage.

This won’t have an internal CD and I think it will be fine for the following reasons:

  1. Most of a warrior’s attacks are usually single hit hard hitters, meaning that if they are dodged they will still go on CD and we will not be able to profit from the dmg boost on them.
  2. Most burst skills are single hitters and missing or having a burst skill dodged is a pretty severe punishment.
  3. A 20/25/30% dmg increase on one of our multi hits abilities will not be a very big increase in damage, so it keeps things balanced in the end.

The see how the skill will work without an ICD consider the following scenario:
Say I use Whirlwind on a target and he dodges all of my hits, since the buff doesn’t stack at the end I will still only get the bonus for my next immediate attack, not putting an ICD also prevents people from dodging the buffed attack and completely nullifying the effect. Instead of they dodge again they will just cause it to reproc. So its not like it’s such a hard counter to dodging, people just have to dodge the proper things (aka eviscerate/killshot/rush, when it doesn’t bug).

Another interesting scenario to consider is what happen if there are multiple targets and only 1 dodges. Well say I now use whirlwind on a group of 3 players and the one closest to me dodges, but the rest don’t well the guy closest to me will evade the attack first and will therefore proc the buff, so the 2 other players will each get hit with a stronger hit, now since his dodge roll will probably evade more than 1 hit (especially if he rolls in the same direction as I whirl in) the buff will be reprocced and the 2 other players will eat stronger hits at the expense of him being the only one to dodge. However, for single hit skills, like earthsaker, if we get blinded we still miss the attack on all targets and we just get the buff to proc for as many target as we missed, but since the buff doesn’t stack, we still only end up with a 20/25/30% dmg increase to our next immediate hit, I believe this keep things balanced while offering decent counter play to blind/dodging that could make our telegraphed skills more rewarding if we can bait a dodge first.

For arms, I’m a bit confused as to how exactly Mighty Expertise would work if we got the % duration increase from might, which happens to be a boon whose stacks we keep gaining and losing. Would it calculate the duration increase on the moment the attack is used considering only the amount of might stacks you have at the moment of the attack? I think that would be the simplest and by far the best way of implementing it, otherwise it would be a complete nightmare since you’d have conditions of varying durations from the same attack at different moments (depending on how much might you have) whose duration will KEEP CHANGING while they’re ticking xD

That would be very nasty to program and also somewhat difficult to conceptually reason about since you’d have to wonder how the % duration increase will be determined as the player keeps gaining/losing might stacks. Would we take base the duration increase from the base duration and then add a % of that as the player gains a stack of might and then subtract the same % when he loses that stack, or would we be calculating it based off the remaining duration of the condition itself O.O

For Dual Wielding I was considering adding a flat dmg increase + a slightly bigger adrenaline gain to offhand attacks in the place of the attack speed. Like a good 20-30% dmg icnrease because as things currently stand (in PvP at least) there is practically no reason to take anything other than a shield unless you’re one of the very very few people running a burn berserker and in that case you usually don’t even run arms. Offensive offhands need to be worth taking, and currently they don’t offer enough damage for the survivability you sacrifice from not taking shield. Speaking of offhand weapons I though putting the projectile reflect on Whirlwing Axe would be a better idea since that’s how it works for thieves when they steal it from us and similarly for ranger’s offhand axe #5. We could then move the knockdown to Dual Chop and make it a shorter duration to account for the shorter cooldown, or make it a short duration daze instead.

Cull the weak is a bit well weak don’t you think? I think it would become fine if we increased the health threshold to 50% and slightly increased the weakness duration while putting an internal CD on in. So say increase dmg to foes suffering from weakness by 10% (up from 5) and inflict weakness on foes below 50% health; weakness duration is 5seconds and internal CD is 15seconds. I mean weakness is a hell of a strong condition as it severely cuts dmg output (25% decrease in overall dps if you do it mathematically) and also guts endurance regen, so I think a 5sec duration with 15sec ICD coupled with the dmg increase should be fine. For dogged march I’d actually keep the regen but make it longer in duration. I mean we have a looooot of vigor already if we take last stand, not to mention energy sigils, so I think more vigor is a bit redundant, what do you think?

I’d buff adrenal health slightly, currently its around 120 health per second at max adrenaline, so how about increasing the health gained for each adrenaline point to 25HP? That would be a 750 HP heal for a lv 3 burst skill, Burst skills roughly have a 7 seconds CD, if we manage to generate that adrenaline we could get roughly the same healing (but the ~120HPS is only if you stay at lv 3 adrenaline with the current Adrenal Health which we almost never do).

Defy pain seems interesting, but it would take more focus to play with it since you’d have to constantly pay attention to how much HP you’re losing to attacks, but it might be a cool change. It would definitely help with sudden dmg spikes and heavy focus since those will make you lose more than 10% of your HP and force Endure Pain, even if for only 1 second. That 1 second could be enough to eat A LOT of incoming dmg. I like the potential implications of that. Overall I think it’s a great idea. But keep in mind that a proc every 15 seconds would technically mean a stun break every time it procs, might have to look into that.

Ok I now see why you’ve added vigor to dogged march, but still, add back the regen :P Last stand seems nice, tbh I’ve always preferred being able to use stuff more often than for longer durations, lets me counter things more often.

Now onto discipline, you might want to keep fast hands >< I remember somebody talking with an ANet Dev and he clearly said that the changes of fast hands becoming baseline are pretty much non-existant (wish I could get source).

Destruction of the empowered is interesting but wouldn’t getting a dmg decrease if the target has MORE boons than you seem more fitting? I mean warriors aren’t a class with a whole lot of boons anyways, and it would help much more vs boon spamming classes, it also fits the theme of the skill better xD

I’m neutral about heightened focus, but one thing that’s for sure is that It’ll secure kills more certainly than now. I mean now I watch for that health to hit 50% and I try to CC→100blades. If the quickness procs at 25% the 100b would probably be overkill. Seems fine, I’d vouch for a slightly higher health threshold (33%?) with aslightly higher ICD (10seconds?). Although the version we currently have would also be fine if you add fury to it. I mean it’s just a matter of HP/duration/CD scaling from then onwards, but too low of a threshold might make it like Cull the Weak as we have it now, as in the threshold is too low for it to be of good use. And since stomps are no longer affected by quickness that’s one major benefit (putting it at such a low HP threshold) lost.

Merciless Hammer: Nuuuuuu why you remove my dmg increase >< The dmg increase was very good for the CC chains, I mean with an Int sigil I could often chain staggering blow into 5-6k backbreakers into 4-5k Fierce Blows. I think I like this trait so much and I’m so used to using it with hammer that I’m super uncooperative when it comes to changing it. My apologies

In berserker, the master minor seems to have no applications for power builds at all :S how about a small precision increase at least?

I like dragon punch but how about extending the duration when using primal burst or a straight up duration increase? I mean berserker is pretty bad at might stacking if you don’’t take strength (in which case it’s awfully yolo in PvP), running a power greataxe berserker in PvP myself I quite rarely find myself above 10 might stacks seeing how I don’t take any might duration extending runes (strength or hoelbrak) since the line itself doesn’t have much in might stacking unlike strength.

The quickness on Fatal Frenzy was one of the best things a power berserker had >< Now that’s sort of gone too :S I really feel like minor traits should have something useful regardless of the build. In berserker so far the minor master and grandmaster pretty much only offer things to condi builds and are borderline useless for power builds.

Taunt on bloody roar is better than fear, because it forced your target to attack you with autos while you could unload big damage on them thanks to the initial spurt of quickness you had, I really think fear would be counter productive for a warrior since you usually want to keep foes near you instead of pushing them away from you. I’d put the taunt back and remove the bleeding, instead add a small stacking direct dmg increase everytime you crit, similar to furious. Something like 5-6 seconds of duration with 1% dmg increase for a maximum of 8-10 stacks. This requires you to attack a lot in order to maintain the dmg increase which rewards a more agressive playstyle as it should be considering the theme is a berserker. Eternal Champion is nice, it was already one hell of a strong trait (I pretty much always picked it without even considering the other 2, pulsing stability for the whole berserker mode is just amazing), but I’m concerned it might become a bit too strong? I mean the protection needs to go I think.

That’s all for now

Vanov {Warrior} ~ Still waiting for “Guide on Making Proper ||#1 Warr NA|| Sig”

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Glad to see my feedback made you change some things I still have slightly differring opinions about arcing slice but whatever, its fine if we can’t share the same opinion. I’ll focus on traits this time.
First, Glad to see you changed unsuspecting foe in arms and merged it with body blow, I was gonna suggest moving body blow to arms myself.

:)

I don’t rly like the changes to the strength line tbh :S power warrior relies sooo much on that 20% dmg increase from berserker’s power its incredible. And considering how fast we cap the might stacks through all our traits/runes granting might I really can’t see it as being that relevant >< I would’ve personally moved Axe mastery down to master tier to replace body blow and introduced a new grandmaster that increases the dmg on our next attack if it gets evaded, something like:

  • Vengeful Strikes: Whenever one of your attacks gets evaded or misses your next attack deals (20/25/30% will have to decide) more damage.

This won’t have an internal CD and I think it will be fine for the following reasons:

  1. Most of a warrior’s attacks are usually single hit hard hitters, meaning that if they are dodged they will still go on CD and we will not be able to profit from the dmg boost on them.
  2. Most burst skills are single hitters and missing or having a burst skill dodged is a pretty severe punishment.
  3. A 20/25/30% dmg increase on one of our multi hits abilities will not be a very big increase in damage, so it keeps things balanced in the end.

The see how the skill will work without an ICD consider the following scenario:
Say I use Whirlwind on a target and he dodges all of my hits, since the buff doesn’t stack at the end I will still only get the bonus for my next immediate attack, not putting an ICD also prevents people from dodging the buffed attack and completely nullifying the effect. Instead of they dodge again they will just cause it to reproc. So its not like it’s such a hard counter to dodging, people just have to dodge the proper things (aka eviscerate/killshot/rush, when it doesn’t bug).

Another interesting scenario to consider is what happen if there are multiple targets and only 1 dodges. Well say I now use whirlwind on a group of 3 players and the one closest to me dodges, but the rest don’t well the guy closest to me will evade the attack first and will therefore proc the buff, so the 2 other players will each get hit with a stronger hit, now since his dodge roll will probably evade more than 1 hit (especially if he rolls in the same direction as I whirl in) the buff will be reprocced and the 2 other players will eat stronger hits at the expense of him being the only one to dodge. However, for single hit skills, like earthsaker, if we get blinded we still miss the attack on all targets and we just get the buff to proc for as many target as we missed, but since the buff doesn’t stack, we still only end up with a 20/25/30% dmg increase to our next immediate hit, I believe this keep things balanced while offering decent counter play to blind/dodging that could make our telegraphed skills more rewarding if we can bait a dodge first.

Interesting idea, may need more refinement though.

I know revenants have a trait like that- “Cruel Repercussion”. Given how much flak it’s getting (complaints of it being over-powered), I’m reluctant to go that path, and deal with a possible future nerf. My main concern with that cruel repercussion is that it punishes opponents to dodge your attacks- there’s no way around the damage, and theres no way to counter it.

I did have a similar trait to what you had though- the new signet mastery in arms, which will proc signet of might whenever your target negates an attack (either through blocking, evasion, blinds, etc). This allows for counter play, by affecting only blocking attacks. If the opponents of the warrior know that the warrior is taking the trait, they could force the trait to proc, and block when they know the trait is in cooldown. On the other hand, the trait becomes useful against players with long blocking uptime. This goes back into my philosophy that traits should be mostly situational.

Warriors have a problem that they have a lot of traits and skills that focus on offense over utility, usability, and defense. I created absolute control and the new “empowered” for these reasons- they offered utility and defensive properties. I also wanted to fix the situation that some traits never see any use. If I were to change it so the master class traits have forceful greatsword, axe mastery, and great fortitude / absolute control, while the grandmaster class traits have berserker’s power, and absolute control / great fortitude / vengeful strikes / empowered, would all traits get equal consideration? And would there be a power creep? (Which I am trying to avoid)

For arms, I’m a bit confused as to how exactly Mighty Expertise would work if we got the % duration increase from might, which happens to be a boon whose stacks we keep gaining and losing. Would it calculate the duration increase on the moment the attack is used considering only the amount of might stacks you have at the moment of the attack? I think that would be the simplest and by far the best way of implementing it, otherwise it would be a complete nightmare since you’d have conditions of varying durations from the same attack at different moments (depending on how much might you have) whose duration will KEEP CHANGING while they’re ticking xD

That would be very nasty to program and also somewhat difficult to conceptually reason about since you’d have to wonder how the % duration increase will be determined as the player keeps gaining/losing might stacks. Would we take base the duration increase from the base duration and then add a % of that as the player gains a stack of might and then subtract the same % when he loses that stack, or would we be calculating it based off the remaining duration of the condition itself O.O

The condition duration increase affects the condition only at the time of application. For example, if you have 15 stacks of might, that’s +7.5% condition duration at that time. If you were to use a skill that has a condition (1 stack of burning 3 seconds), that burning stack will be applied at 3.2 seconds. It’s not going to, or more like it shouldn’t fluctuate condition duration after the condition has been applied. I guess I could clarify that more in the description. Thanks for catching that.

For Dual Wielding I was considering adding a flat dmg increase + a slightly bigger adrenaline gain to offhand attacks in the place of the attack speed. Like a good 20-30% dmg icnrease because as things currently stand (in PvP at least) there is practically no reason to take anything other than a shield unless you’re one of the very very few people running a burn berserker and in that case you usually don’t even run arms. Offensive offhands need to be worth taking, and currently they don’t offer enough damage for the survivability you sacrifice from not taking shield.

This trait went through a lot of changes in the past 20 days. I did have it at one point to simply increase damage, but it wasn’t in line with the “critical strikes” identity of the arms specialization.

Speaking of offhand weapons I though putting the projectile reflect on Whirlwing Axe would be a better idea since that’s how it works for thieves when they steal it from us and similarly for ranger’s offhand axe #5. We could then move the knockdown to Dual Chop and make it a shorter duration to account for the shorter cooldown, or make it a short duration daze instead.

I originally had the reflect on whirling axe as well, along with the knockback. It was too much for one trait, so I had to separate the skills functionality. I wanted to try something new- warriors have plenty of one hit CC attacks, but nothing like a “mobile line of warding”. This was what I was going after. If I were to move the CC to whirling axe, it would just be another plain CC skill.

Cull the weak is a bit well weak don’t you think? I think it would become fine if we increased the health threshold to 50% and slightly increased the weakness duration while putting an internal CD on in. So say increase dmg to foes suffering from weakness by 10% (up from 5) and inflict weakness on foes below 50% health; weakness duration is 5seconds and internal CD is 15seconds. I mean weakness is a hell of a strong condition as it severely cuts dmg output (25% decrease in overall dps if you do it mathematically) and also guts endurance regen, so I think a 5sec duration with 15sec ICD coupled with the dmg increase should be fine. For dogged march I’d actually keep the regen but make it longer in duration. I mean we have a looooot of vigor already if we take last stand, not to mention energy sigils, so I think more vigor is a bit redundant, what do you think?

Vanilla cull of the weak was weak, I agree. It can go either way here though- with your design or my design. I originally thought about doing what you suggested – increasing health threshold, increasing damage etc, but I didn’t want to do ArenaNet style number fixing; I wanted to fix the functionality of the trait. It may be a silly reason, but the secondary reason why I didn’t choose to increase health threshold, is because the warrior has 3 skills that proc an effect when striking a foe below health threshold (heightened focus, signet mastery, and cull of the weak). I chose to throw that in to heightened focus.

I kinda see where you’re going though, 3 seconds of weakness is not a very long time and players in WvW / PvP might still side with dogged march.

I’d buff adrenal health slightly, currently its around 120 health per second at max adrenaline, so how about increasing the health gained for each adrenaline point to 25HP? That would be a 750 HP heal for a lv 3 burst skill, Burst skills roughly have a 7 seconds CD, if we manage to generate that adrenaline we could get roughly the same healing (but the ~120HPS is only if you stay at lv 3 adrenaline with the current Adrenal Health which we almost never do).

Good observation

In one minute, a warrior can expend 8 around burst skills. 15 * 30 = 450 * 8 = 3600 healing in one minute, vs 351/3=117*60= 7020 healing in one minute

I’m glad you caught this. I was going back and forth on this, had it at 40, dropped to 25, then to 15. 25 is a perfect number, maybe with a .005 healing power multiplier (with 2000 healing power, it would be 35 health per adrenaline gained)

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Defy pain seems interesting, but it would take more focus to play with it since you’d have to constantly pay attention to how much HP you’re losing to attacks, but it might be a cool change. It would definitely help with sudden dmg spikes and heavy focus since those will make you lose more than 10% of your HP and force Endure Pain, even if for only 1 second. That 1 second could be enough to eat A LOT of incoming dmg. I like the potential implications of that. Overall I think it’s a great idea. But keep in mind that a proc every 15 seconds would technically mean a stun break every time it procs, might have to look into that.

:)

Ok I now see why you’ve added vigor to dogged march, but still, add back the regen :P

Would you mind expanding on this more? I’d like to hear your reasons.

Last stand seems nice, tbh I’ve always preferred being able to use stuff more often than for longer durations, lets me counter things more often.

:)

Now onto discipline, you might want to keep fast hands >< I remember somebody talking with an ANet Dev and he clearly said that the changes of fast hands becoming baseline are pretty much non-existant (wish I could get source).

I removed fast hands because it was a trait that defined the profession too much. This is what I had under my design philosophy:

Traits should not be something the profession heavily relies on, but something that the profession could use to improve itself in specific situations.

Fast hands was just that. It’s detrimental to build variety due to the profession’s reliance on it, 10 second cooldown is too much and the the concept of the warrior states that “Warriors are mastery of weaponry”.

5 seconds is too little as well, so I decided on 7 seconds. In any case, this trait should not exist. (in my opinion)

Destruction of the empowered is interesting but wouldn’t getting a dmg decrease if the target has MORE boons than you seem more fitting? I mean warriors aren’t a class with a whole lot of boons anyways, and it would help much more vs boon spamming classes, it also fits the theme of the skill better xD

Good point. Changed, thanks!

I’m neutral about heightened focus, but one thing that’s for sure is that It’ll secure kills more certainly than now. I mean now I watch for that health to hit 50% and I try to CC->100blades. If the quickness procs at 25% the 100b would probably be overkill. Seems fine, I’d vouch for a slightly higher health threshold (33%?) with aslightly higher ICD (10seconds?). Although the version we currently have would also be fine if you add fury to it. I mean it’s just a matter of HP/duration/CD scaling from then onwards, but too low of a threshold might make it like Cull the Weak as we have it now, as in the threshold is too low for it to be of good use. And since stomps are no longer affected by quickness that’s one major benefit (putting it at such a low HP threshold) lost.

That’s what I was going after, a trait to help players finish downs faster if he/she is not interested in actually finishing the player, but rather beating the crap out of the foe.
At 50%, the effect would proc too soon and go into cooldown. That was my primary reason to change this. To compensate, I included fury gain and adrenaline.

Merciless Hammer: Nuuuuuu why you remove my dmg increase >< The dmg increase was very good for the CC chains, I mean with an Int sigil I could often chain staggering blow into 5-6k backbreakers into 4-5k Fierce Blows. I think I like this trait so much and I’m so used to using it with hammer that I’m super uncooperative when it comes to changing it. My apologies

No need to apologize, I understand where you’re coming from. The problem here is that it’s too much of a niche build and reiterates the internal problem with warriors that they have too much damage traits and too little utility and defensive traits.

This was my suggestion to fix it.

In berserker, the master minor seems to have no applications for power builds at all :S how about a small precision increase at least?

The quickness on Fatal Frenzy was one of the best things a power berserker had >< Now that’s sort of gone too :S I really feel like minor traits should have something useful regardless of the build. In berserker so far the minor master and grandmaster pretty much only offer things to condi builds and are borderline useless for power builds.

Honestly, I think the quickness proc felt like a last minute idea by ArenaNet to make the berserker powerful. This is just assuming things, but I honestly think ArenaNet designed the warrior last after the other professions (W is a late letter in the alphabet) and ran out of ideas. I also believed the 15% speed increase would conflict with the quickness gain, dual wielding trait, and even frenzy stance.

In terms with the minor traits, I see where you’re going, but think of it as this way. It’s all just procing fire blast (e.g. sigil of fire). The burning is just an added benefit. I could remove the contingency on the minor grandmaster that the foe needs to be burning when defeated though. Not all warrior build have access to burning.

I like dragon punch but how about extending the duration when using primal burst or a straight up duration increase? I mean berserker is pretty bad at might stacking if you don’’t take strength (in which case it’s awfully yolo in PvP), running a power greataxe berserker in PvP myself I quite rarely find myself above 10 might stacks seeing how I don’t take any might duration extending runes (strength or hoelbrak) since the line itself doesn’t have much in might stacking unlike strength.

That’s the beauty of this though, you rely more on party support for this trait to work. Honestly, I wish more traits were like this.

Taunt on bloody roar is better than fear, because it forced your target to attack you with autos while you could unload big damage on them thanks to the initial spurt of quickness you had, I really think fear would be counter productive for a warrior since you usually want to keep foes near you instead of pushing them away from you. I’d put the taunt back and remove the bleeding, instead add a small stacking direct dmg increase everytime you crit, similar to furious. Something like 5-6 seconds of duration with 1% dmg increase for a maximum of 8-10 stacks. This requires you to attack a lot in order to maintain the dmg increase which rewards a more agressive playstyle as it should be considering the theme is a berserker.

Hmm I like that idea.

Eternal Champion is nice, it was already one hell of a strong trait (I pretty much always picked it without even considering the other 2, pulsing stability for the whole berserker mode is just amazing), but I’m concerned it might become a bit too strong? I mean the protection needs to go I think.

That’s all for now

I wanted to make it more tankier to help with the warrior sustain problem, but yeah. 33% damage reduction is too much. What about a 15%11% damage reduction effect separate from protection? The problem with this though, is that it would stack with spiked armor and protection if the warrior gets it’s hands on it, for a total of 54%50% damage reduction.

Hmm. Maybe that’s not a bad idea though, unless the warrior is holding a banner (trait), he or she won’t be able to get as tanky- but becomes tankier when in a party. I like it. (please rebuke me if you disagree)

Hey, thanks for doing a thorough constructive criticism on this. I’ll do some fixes, based on this. Please let me know if you see anything else.

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Posted by: TheBravery.9615

TheBravery.9615

Taunt on bloody roar is better than fear, because it forced your target to attack you with autos while you could unload big damage on them thanks to the initial spurt of quickness you had, I really think fear would be counter productive for a warrior since you usually want to keep foes near you instead of pushing them away from you. I’d put the taunt back and remove the bleeding, instead add a small stacking direct dmg increase everytime you crit, similar to furious. Something like 5-6 seconds of duration with 1% dmg increase for a maximum of 8-10 stacks. This requires you to attack a lot in order to maintain the dmg increase which rewards a more agressive playstyle as it should be considering the theme is a berserker.

I really like this, but I’m also reluctant to change it.

I understand that taunt is great and all that, but I did change “fear me” into a taunt. I also want to keep the flat 10% damage increase because who knows? Some warriors might have low critical hit chance. I’ll think of a compromise…

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Posted by: Rekt.5360

Rekt.5360

I did have a similar trait to what you had though- the new signet mastery in arms, which will proc signet of might whenever your target negates an attack (either through blocking, evasion, blinds, etc). This allows for counter play, by affecting only blocking attacks. If the opponents of the warrior know that the warrior is taking the trait, they could force the trait to proc, and block when they know the trait is in cooldown. On the other hand, the trait becomes useful against players with long blocking uptime. This goes back into my philosophy that traits should be mostly situational.
Warriors have a problem that they have a lot of traits and skills that focus on offense over utility, usability, and defense. I created absolute control and the new “empowered” for these reasons- they offered utility and defensive properties. I also wanted to fix the situation that some traits never see any use. If I were to change it so the master class traits have forceful greatsword, axe mastery, and great fortitude / absolute control, while the grandmaster class traits have berserker’s power, and absolute control / great fortitude / vengeful strikes / empowered, would all traits get equal consideration? And would there be a power creep? (Which I am trying to avoid)

Now that I think about it you’re right. It would favor power creep, although I wonder if warrior is at a level where we can call it power creep? :O

I also prefer your new signet of might idea of having it proc on evade/blind. One thing that really bothers me with strength though, is the damage modifiers. I mean I LOVE them but I hate them at the same time. Power warrior is too dependent on them. When you think about it, when we’re doing damage and we run strength, were actually doing 130% of our damage output since we always have berserker’s power and stick and move. This is a terrible indication in my opinion, the fact that we need a 30% damage multiplier in order to do competitive DPS screams that something is wrong.

Would you mind expanding on this more? I’d like to hear your reasons.

Well, I the regen is a nice little sustain boost for when you get soft-CC’ed. I mean it healed for a relatively small amount but it was a nice bump in survivability. Even if it’s gone though I doubt I’ll notice it.

Fast hands was just that. It’s detrimental to build variety due to the profession’s reliance on it, 10 second cooldown is too much and the the concept of the warrior states that “Warriors are mastery of weaponry”.
5 seconds is too little as well, so I decided on 7 seconds. In any case, this trait should not exist. (in my opinion)

Tbh, I’d rather have it baseline and be 5 seconds too. The class practically relies on it since our weapon skills don’t have a bunch of tacked in effects unlike most other classes and thus require us to swap often so we can get the most out of them. Baseline fast hands would be my #1 wish, it’s really sad how hard people pressured (well they didn’t actually pressure them more like constantly beg for it) anet into giving it to us and they never did.

Honestly, I think the quickness proc felt like a last minute idea by ArenaNet to make the berserker powerful. This is just assuming things, but I honestly think ArenaNet designed the warrior last after the other professions (W is a late letter in the alphabet) and ran out of ideas. I also believed the 15% speed increase would conflict with the quickness gain, dual wielding trait, and even frenzy stance.
In terms with the minor traits, I see where you’re going, but think of it as this way. It’s all just procing fire blast (e.g. sigil of fire). The burning is just an added benefit. I could remove the contingency on the minor grandmaster that the foe needs to be burning when defeated though. Not all warrior build have access to burning.

To be honest thought the same thing about the quickness I guess it makes sense since you get a spurt of sudden anger or whatever but it felt a bit meh. I still really like the trait because I can get on demand quickness out of it if I have enough adrenaline and can thus setup my burst.

As for the fire proc, my bad I hadn’t realized it would be the same as a fire sigil. I think we might add a damage increase against burning foes as a small compensation to power oriented builds what do you think? Like a 5% increase so berserker can slightly close the gigantic gap separating it from strength.

I wanted to make it more tankier to help with the warrior sustain problem, but yeah. 33% damage reduction is too much. What about a 15%11% damage reduction effect separate from protection? The problem with this though, is that it would stack with spiked armor and protection if the warrior gets it’s hands on it, for a total of 54%50% damage reduction.

I can totally see where you’re coming from with this trait. Instead of a flat decrease in damage taken how about we set the dmg decrease based on intervals of Hp ? What I think might be cool is to give higher dmg reduction the lower the HP. So say something small like 5 When at 90% hp or above then 10% for 70-89%Hp, 15% for 40-69%Hp and then 20% for below 40%.

Although I’m scared that the synergy of this skill with protection (the warr gets -53% dmg taken when under 40%) coupled with your idea for defy pain might bring warrior to scrapper like survivability levels even with glassier amulets which would be a bit broken :S

Vanov {Warrior} ~ Still waiting for “Guide on Making Proper ||#1 Warr NA|| Sig”