Guild Wars 2

I’m using the 30/25/0/0/15 meta with axe and gsword. PVE style, not worried about PvP.

What are your thoughts of sword for offhand. i realise most ppl run mace so i’m going to assume there’s quite a few arguments for that.

Noticed that the rip portion of sword 4 does roughly the same dmg as mace 5 except its single target instead of aoe.
Impale also does somewhat decent dmg and adds 15 seconds of 5 stacks of torment.
Its hard to compare con dmg to physical bc of crits and modifiers so i have no idea how torment would compare with raw dmg.

Sword number 5 offers a 2 second block which could be good in tight situations. Although it does counter i found that if you stayed out of melee range that it blocked an indefinite amount of times which could be a life safer, compared to KD which is ineffective on bosses.

Also i cant really see myself using mace #4, longer activation time then axe #2 and i rarely find myself using axe#2 as is. Most of the time bosses are already at max stats or close enough.

Anyways would really like some opinions and advice, I’m close to making my ascended weapons and wonder what i should make.

If you run a condition build sword is best. If you run a power build sword is best. If you need AoE in dungeons axe is best. If you pvp against bads or need cc mace is best though shield would do what you need better.

glaphen.5230:

If you run a condition build sword is best. If you run a power build sword is best. If you need AoE in dungeons axe is best. If you pvp against bads or need cc mace is best though shield would do what you need better.

So you reckon sword is better dps then mace for pve?

For multiple enemies axe is best and for a single enemy sword is best by far. Mace is a choice if you really really had to instead of axe for some reason. Though I say axe is best for multiple enemies I only mean more than 3 otherwise mace would be better for the meh cc. Off hand axe whirl only does more damage than the auto attack if it hits more than 3 enemies. Mace off hand damage is pathetic so it would only be useful for the hard to aim, really low damage cc.

Isn’t what makes offhand mace really strong the vulnerability stacks with 4?

I have found that for the most part, mace is better in PvE due to higher AOE damage and the 4 stacks of vuln which are pretty strong in PvE. The only time i use sword offhand is if i need the block (99% of the time this is lupi) or im not using GS since i have ele’s giving me might and in that case i use Axe/mace+axe/sword.

Delay.6908:

I have found that for the most part, mace is better in PvE due to higher AOE damage and the 4 stacks of vuln which are pretty strong in PvE. The only time i use sword offhand is if i need the block (99% of the time this is lupi) or im not using GS since i have ele’s giving me might and in that case i use Axe/mace+axe/sword.

How many targets can tremor hit? Is it 3 per a wave?

You cant seriously be implying 4 stacks on vulnerability makes it even worth casting that skill and Tremors AoE damage is the same as a single mace auto attack. Whirling Axe hits 5 targets for half the damage of Hundred Blades in around the same amount of time but you can move and dodge during it. If you need to dodge on a boss you can just cast Whirling Axe and do some extra damage during the dodge.

I’ve decided on going sword.
I cant see any reason to use mace unless tremor can hit 5 targets.
From looking at it in terms of DPS.
Swords seems to be best single target DPS
Axe seems to be best for groups of mobs. hits 5 targets
Mace seems to fall somewhere in between, less damage then sword more dps then Axe but only hits 3 targets.

edit: thats assuming tremor only hits 3 targets inwhich i have no idea. something i need to test.

Just tested Tremor. It hits up to 6 times so a maximum of 3 hits per a wave.`

Also given the short activation time, tremor appears to be the highest DPS warrior skill.

Axe 5 is Garbage and Mace 4 is a 4% party wide DPS boost

I always liked the look of dw axe but the abilities on 4/5 could use a rework.

Mace 4/5 have their uses, 4 applies party wide 4% dmg increase (not to mention you also get another 4 stacks from axe 2) and the 5 can provide interrupts, I’ve saved several people being chased in dungeons with low health in PUGs.

Personally the feel of sword didn’t seem to flow with axe, which is just a playstyle issue.

I was doing some maths b4, and now i’m more unsure then ever.
Tremor is extremely high dps. I’m not sure of the actual animation time for the skill but going off activation time alone, its double the dps of 100b.
And using tremor, followed by auto atk with axe on 3 targets is almost the same DPS as Whirling Axe hitting all 5 targets.
Sword is only a single target atk and again going off activation time alone, Tremor blows it out of the water, although taking into account the cooldowns and how often you can use it, Impale will do more dmg over an extended period of time. Then again impale has 3/4sec longer activation time per a rotation taking up time from auto atk, meaning that it could infact be less damage over time then Tremor.

Again, this is only considering the stated activation time, not the actual time it takes for the animation to complete.

I do agree, axe/axe is such an awesome look, and i’m so keen on using dual axe but it will be at the cost of over all dps and utility.

One major point against mace, is the long cooldown on tremor. That and the fact it has CC would make me hesitant to use it for DPS purposes and rather save it for those oh kitten moments. On the other hand impale offers no utility, is a good opener and has a short enough cooldown that i dont mind spamming it. It also has block on a seperate skill for those oh kitten moments.

Test: Start with Tremor and let auto atk cycle til cooldown. I got exactly 7 cycles of AA chain.

Values of skills are taken from gw2skills.net for uniformity
7x(1170+2340+2340+2508)+1397x2=61300
58506 +2794=61,300

Next using burst as a timer, i tried my best to guess the time it took to cast tremor so i could compare it to the number of atks from the autochain. The first atk after tremor was roughly at the end of the 7sec mark. Comparing it to auto atk, that was roughly the first chop of double chop(or 2 hits).

So compared to auto atk with no Tremor.
7x(1170+2340+2340+2508)+1170+1170=
58506+2340=60,846

So Tremor was a 1% dps increase compared to auto atk chain.

Now with Impale+rip
4x(1170+2340+2340+2508)+872+3343
4×8358 33,432 =37,647

Did the same thing as b4, but timed impale+rip and compared to auto atk.
4x(1170+2340+2340+2508)1170×4
33,4324680=38112
1.3% loss in DPS. This does not include the DPS from torment.

U can use Impale at last before switchtig back to your GS, after 100B (WA) and the first AAs u can switch back to Axe/Sword and use Rip.
This will add most stacks of torment, and less AA dps time per rotation.

Whirling axe when hitting 5 targets is less total damage than axe auto hitting 3 targets for the same duration. Axe 5 is always a dps loss. Never use axe 5, its awful.

To answer op. Mace is a lot better for trash because it has cc and aoe and extra vuln. Its also good for easy bosses where the extra vuln helps. However on more difficult bosses i prefer to use sword for impale/rip and the block. If you run with multiple warriors the rip wont stack so keep that in mind if you are all using offhand sword on a boss.

Decided to chose mace, just bc its more party friendly. It both increases party dps and survivability where as sword doesnt help party.

I just how you don’t join my party with that useless off hand. You would do far more for the party dps just auto attacking with axe than a cast of that could ever make up. In the end all off hands suck in comparison to the axe auto attack.

glaphen.5230:

I just how you don’t join my party with that useless off hand. You would do far more for the party dps just auto attacking with axe than a cast of that could ever make up. In the end all off hands suck in comparison to the axe auto attack.

Not true, using tremor as soon as its off cooldown would offer an over all 1% dps.

Values of skills are taken from gw2skills.net for uniformity
7x(1170+2340+2340+2508)1397×2=61300
58506 +2794=61,300
So compared to auto atk with no Tremor.
7x(11702340+2340+2508)+1170+1170=60,846
58506+2340=60,846
So Tremor was a 1% dps increase compared to auto atk chain.

But a 1% increase in dps is hardly worth choosing an offhand. The damage difference is so little between the offhands, that i believe you should chose one based off what utilities they bring to the party/situation and as i said, mace has the most to offer in that case.
Alternatively you could use shield or warhorn but that would cause you to lose the 5% dps increase from dual wielding.

glaphen.5230:

You cant seriously be implying 4 stacks on vulnerability makes it even worth casting that skill and Tremors AoE damage is the same as a single mace auto attack. Whirling Axe hits 5 targets for half the damage of Hundred Blades in around the same amount of time but you can move and dodge during it. If you need to dodge on a boss you can just cast Whirling Axe and do some extra damage during the dodge.

How is giving your party 4% more damage a waste of a skill… i do not understand.

Use both? Mace and sword OH both have their strengths in different places.

Mirsa.1628:

Use both? Mace and sword OH both have their strengths in different places.

Yeah i will. Was planning on crafting on of them ascended, but decided i’ll be better off crafting ascended gsword and axe insead of axe+offhand.

spoj.9672:

Whirling axe when hitting 5 targets is less total damage than axe auto hitting 3 targets for the same duration. Axe 5 is always a dps loss. Never use axe 5, its awful.

Not sure if this is accurate. Based on Wiki numbers using 3k power against 2500 toughness and no extra coefficient modifiers to keep this somewhat simple:

One base attack rotation: ((252 * 0.7 * 3000) / 2500) + (2 * ((538 * 1.4 * 3000) / 2500)) + (2 * ((470 * 1.4 * 3000) / 2500)) + ((504 * 1.5 * 3000) / 2500) = 4505.76

Two full base attack rotations against max AoE targets = (4505.76 * 2 * 3) = 27034.56

Whriling Axe: ((1005 * 2.85 * 3000) / 2500) * 15 = 51556.5

Whirling Axe appears to be considerably better but my math or the wiki may be off somewhere. WA also gives more adrenalin and crits in the same time period.

If you have 2 other warrior in the party or an engineer the Vuln stacking should be covered, this is where sword offhand will thrive since overstacking the vuln that high is completely worthless. Also, Rip hits significantly higher than tremor (which shouldn’t be used for DPS, but for utility such as interrupting the Arah path 2 abominations.)

Rip doesn’t hit significantly higher then tremor if your in melee range since tremor hits twice, and im pretty sure if you dont need the interrupt casting tremor (as long as you dont cancel your auto attack chain for the final strike) is a very very slight DPS boost.

Delay.6908:

Rip doesn’t hit significantly higher then tremor if your in melee range since tremor hits twice, and im pretty sure if you dont need the interrupt casting tremor (as long as you dont cancel your auto attack chain for the final strike) is a very very slight DPS boost.

Actually tremor is more DPS then Impale/Rip, not including the torment stacks which would be quite hard to compare since the damage would be alot more varie depending on build. EG low dps or high con builds would take more from torment stacks.
Effectively Tremor takes about the same time as 2 auto atks, Rip/Impale is about the time of 4. I did the maths near the top of this thread if you want to read.

Straegen.2938:

spoj.9672:

Whirling axe when hitting 5 targets is less total damage than axe auto hitting 3 targets for the same duration. Axe 5 is always a dps loss. Never use axe 5, its awful.

Not sure if this is accurate. Based on Wiki numbers using 3k power against 2500 toughness and no extra coefficient modifiers to keep this somewhat simple:

One base attack rotation: ((252 * 0.7 * 3000) / 2500) + (2 * ((538 * 1.4 * 3000) / 2500)) + (2 * ((470 * 1.4 * 3000) / 2500)) + ((504 * 1.5 * 3000) / 2500) = 4505.76

Two full base attack rotations against max AoE targets = (4505.76 * 2 * 3) = 27034.56

Whriling Axe: ((1005 * 2.85 * 3000) / 2500) * 15 = 51556.5

Whirling Axe appears to be considerably better but my math or the wiki may be off somewhere. WA also gives more adrenalin and crits in the same time period.

Just using the base damage of each attack listed on the wiki a full auto attack chain deals 1764 damage. Compared to whirling axe doing 1005 damage to a single target.

So when cleaving we get 1764 * 3 = 5292 total damage from one rotation.

Whirling axe on 5 targets gives 1005 * 5 = 5025 total damage.

One auto attack chain is pretty much the same duration as whirling axe. So yeah axe auto is better even when hitting maximum number of targets for both attacks.

PS. When it says something like (15x): 1,005. It means it deals a total of 1005 damage over 15 hits.

Just use sword when you need a block for certain boss fights and mace for cc’ing trash mobs.

You know Impale is ranged and can even be cast on a target behind you right. Casting it at melee range and ripping would be an obvious dps loss. Casting it when you cant be melee on a boss and ripping at 4-5 stacks of Torment gives it the highest single target damage by far.

Mace offhand in PvE is great. Constant vulnerability stacking and the AoE knockdown is a nice bonus.

spoj.9672:

Just using the base damage of each attack listed on the wiki a full auto attack chain deals 1764 damage. Compared to whirling axe doing 1005 damage to a single target.

So when cleaving we get 1764 * 3 = 5292 total damage from one rotation.

Whirling axe on 5 targets gives 1005 * 5 = 5025 total damage.

One auto attack chain is pretty much the same duration as whirling axe. So yeah axe auto is better even when hitting maximum number of targets for both attacks.

Even with my mistake, you cannot take out the Skill Coefficient which is more than 2x higher on the Whirling Axe. The adjusted numbers:

Base attacks with power and toughness being equal: (252 * 0.7) + (2 * (538 * 1.4) + (2 * (470 * 1.4)) + (504 * 1.5) = 3754.8

Whirlwind with power and toughness being equal: (1005 * 2.85) = 2864.25

Two full base attack rotations against max AoE targets (3k power/2.5k toughness) = (4505.76 * 2 * 3) = 27034.56

My guess is WA can hit 5 targets unlike the base attack but even then the DPS is still crappy: Whriling Axe: ((1005 * 2.85 * 3000) / 2500) * 5 = 17185.5

So long story short, the original comment about never using WA is indeed accurate at least best I can tell. If it is 50% higher in sPvP which I believe it is, that brings this skill up to par for rotational use but not significantly better than the base attack.

spoj.9672:

PS. When it says something like (15x): 1,005. It means it deals a total of 1005 damage over 15 hits.

You are correct. Oddly some of the thief skills are per hit which led to my confusion on this. Those thief skills do have a disclaimer I never noticed before stating this is different than most other multi-attack skills.

You can ignore the skill coefficient because those base damage numbers are the base damage each hit does according to the skills coefficient. If I wanted make a proper dps calculation then I would need to use the coefficients. But we are just comparing two skills so base damage on the wiki is fine (doesnt need to be multiplied by anything).

This is the formula for calculating base damage. The base damage shown on the wiki uses this formula with a set armour, power and weapon strength value. This does not include crits but that doesnt need to be included when comparing. So as you can see the skill coefficient is already accounted for if you just take the values straight from the wiki.

base damage = (Weapon Strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)