Guild Wars 2

The few times TC has had the priviledge of fighting a T1 server, you guys are all unusually tanky compared to most T2 and below. I assume that’s simply a necessity of the megazerg warfare common in T1 (NA at least, not sure about EU).

So out of curiousity, what stats do T1 zerg warriors run in that environment? For example, on mine my rule tends to be:

Health: 25,000
Armor: 3000
Crit: 0% – 11% base crit, depending on build, but with buffs from Fury and Traits.
Attack: 3000 minimum
All remaining stat points into Power and Crit Damage.

How does that compare to the T1 meta? Do you go for even more Health and Armor and less damage, or is that about right?

its not the best but i like it
there’s a bonus power from the 150 passive aoe power too
using gs/hammer for burst and cc
and using melandru + lemongrass combo

the dolyak signet, i’m only using it on very critical moment where i need extra stun break / stability (has 2 from passive and balanced stance). so most of the time i got the toughness bonus.

and i heard 3,2k armor is the hardcap for dmg reduction on armor (need clarification).
so i got my armor exactly 3,2k (it’s 3,3k because 100 bonus when above 90% hp)

and i can live with just 20k hp (still working on vit bonus from wvw skill)
oh and without stack, im sitting at 37% chance

btw i’m on TC too

I’m using a similar build – Hammer/GS, Balanced Stance + Endure Pain, though Stomp instead of Dolyak Signet. Melandru/Dogged March/Lemongrass Poultry Soup. 20/0/20/0/30.

If you can remember anything more about that 3200 Armor hard cap, that would be great. Will try to find out more about that.

Health: At least 28,000
Armor: 3150
Attack: 3100
Crit: 12% without oil, 22% with oil
Crit Dmg: 47

T1 Meta is basically you need to tank up to be able to last large field fights, or any zerging. You should be traited defensively by all means.

i dont have warrior, just a ranger annd a guardian but allways funny when the tanky zerg kitten a duble, triple sized zerk zerg. team play > solo rampaging and i like this
and one more thing: i love you warris for your shouts and ressing banners in wvw!

health 19,000

Armor: 3300
Attack: 2900
Crit: 50% without any food or buffs/skills
Crit damage: 80%

I’m using one of the EU better WvW guilds builds, slightly modified. They use 0/10/30/30/0 but I’ve found trait IV in Arms to not be worth it running solo or not in strictly a guild group that can capitalize off of it. I’m going 10/0/30/30 with Death from Above in Strength; in Defense Dogged March and Last Stand are a must, the final one can be Merciless Hammer or Defy Pain. Tactics I’m using Empower Allies since Leg-Specialist isn’t as good anymore, Shrug it Off, and Vigorous Shouts. As for gear I’m running Berserker weapons, Soldier armor with 6 Superior Runes of the Soldier (they laughed at Runes of Melandru), trinkets are Ascended Berserker back piece, amulet and rings are the Berserker with +18 to Vit, and earrings are exotic berserker. I went to Rata Sum to avoid random buffs in WvW so my stats are looking at.

3091 Power
25% Crit Chance
52% Crit Damage

2801 Armor
27,350 Health

Ive been running 0/10/30/30/0 since patch or same as redguard (pvt) 0/0/30/30/10
shout heals and soldier runes of course, melandru is not a teamplay rune.

being tanky is one thing, but being tanky and having 2k shout heals and removing teams conditions does a lot to help sustain your team.

Thanks guys, I see I’m in the right ballpark, maybe a little low on health, but that’s easy enough to adjust.

I run Melandru b/c I do a lot of solo’ing – scouting, yak running, keep defense, etc. But working on a Soldier Rune set now too.

kurtosis.9526:

So out of curiousity, what stats do T1 zerg warriors run in that environment?

Full PTV (soldier) gear, weapons, trinkets – melandru runes and lemongrass.

Your main issue is you are trying to maintain some damage in your build – get rid of all the crit damage and precision and focus only on power, toughness and vitality.

I have used Melandru and Soldier runes – Melandru is better IMO – Melandru is a team play rune in that you don’t die as easily which means all those downed players you smashed with your hammer don’t get a rally.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Your main issue is you are trying to maintain some damage in your build – get rid of all the crit damage and precision and focus only on power, toughness and vitality.

The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

I have used Melandru and Soldier runes – Melandru is better IMO – Melandru is a team play rune in that you don’t die as easily which means all those downed players you smashed with your hammer don’t get a rally.

This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBiYDbkzJGu6x5BKOggeohVhAaK8DpHiBbkGA-j0xAoLACBQ2rIasV2ioxqsx0lER1ecioaZAYGDA-w

Too many warriors are running glassy builds or roaming build. More harm than good if your map is qued.

For group play, full soldier runes greatly outperforms melandru. Removing 4 conditions from allies in earshot is far more important than -25% condition and stun duration. Also if you scale it up to a zerg vs zerg, 4 warriors with soldier runes + 2 shouts + shrug it off will obviously be a better choice than melandru.

Warriors in ZvZ shouldn’t even be concerned with damage in their builds because every other light profession heavily out damages you from a range. Warriors can’t fufill the DPS role. Warriors strength lie in soaking up damage while helping their team sustain with constant buffs, swiftness and lots of condition removal and throwing in soem light CC.

kurtosis.9526:

The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.

Yep, well aware of how crit damage optimisation works. I think you are missing my point (which admittedly I didn’t make very well). What I am saying is you that when you try to put crit damage and precision into a tank build you are turning it into a balanced build. That is the answer to your question of “why are T1 warriors are tougher than me?”. Answer: You are doing balanced (partial tank) and they are doing full tank.

Try this: http://goo.gl/cojkHW
(also use a bloodlust stacking weapon)

Not sure how accurate intothemists.com is (and I’m not near my gw2 PC) – but that ends up with:

Health 28712
Armor 3290
Attack 3423 (not including Bloodlust stacking)
Critical Hit 4% (i.e., zero extra precision)
Critical Damage 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration (self) -65%
Stun Duration (self) -30%
Healing Power 300
Boon Duration 10%
Burst Recharge 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration 15% (incidental)

Apart from traits, everything involves stacking power, toughness and vitality in some form – then the build focuses on stun reduction, conditon reduction and dodging.

You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp), banner for rezzing the downies and buffing your team mates, 20% stability uptime and lots of dodges. F1 skill and weapon swap give 50% endurance return (extra dodge) and the two stances are giving you 8 seconds vigor. You have Blast finishers (stomp, warhorn 5) for water and lightning fields.

Sigil of Restoration is constantly healing you while people in the enemy zerg (that you have tagged) are being finished. That sigil keeps your sustain really high.

I haven’t had time to test the Healing Signet after the buff so I’m not sure if that would be a better replacement for Healing Surge.

kurtosis.9526:

This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.

I think shout heal builds are better in PUG groups to keep the PUGs from dying. Guildies generally can look after themselves.

Melandru does stun duration reductions in addition to conditon reduction. In a T1 zerg ball the amount of warriors doing Earthshaker is usually off the scale. Reducing those stuns to nearly nothing makes a big difference to not getting steam rolled by the hammer train.

Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

kurtosis.9526:

The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.

Yep, well aware of how crit damage optimisation works. I think you are missing my point (which admittedly I didn’t make very well). What I am saying is you that when you try to put crit damage and precision into a tank build you are turning it into a balanced build. That is the answer to your question of “why are T1 warriors are tougher than me?”. Answer: You are doing balanced (partial tank) and they are doing full tank.

Try this: http://goo.gl/cojkHW
(also use a bloodlust stacking weapon)

Not sure how accurate intothemists.com is (and I’m not near my gw2 PC) – but that ends up with:

Health 28712
Armor 3290
Attack 3423 (not including Bloodlust stacking)
Critical Hit 4% (i.e., zero extra precision)
Critical Damage 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration (self) -65%
Stun Duration (self) -30%
Healing Power 300
Boon Duration 10%
Burst Recharge 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration 15% (incidental)

Apart from traits, everything involves stacking power, toughness and vitality in some form – then the build focuses on stun reduction, conditon reduction and dodging.

You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp), banner for rezzing the downies and buffing your team mates, 20% stability uptime and lots of dodges. F1 skill and weapon swap give 50% endurance return (extra dodge) and the two stances are giving you 8 seconds vigor. You have Blast finishers (stomp, warhorn 5) for water and lightning fields.

Sigil of Restoration is constantly healing you while people in the enemy zerg (that you have tagged) are being finished. That sigil keeps your sustain really high.

I haven’t had time to test the Healing Signet after the buff so I’m not sure if that would be a better replacement for Healing Surge.

kurtosis.9526:

This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.

I think shout heal builds are better in PUG groups to keep the PUGs from dying. Guildies generally can look after themselves.

Melandru does stun duration reductions in addition to conditon reduction. In a T1 zerg ball the amount of warriors doing Earthshaker is usually off the scale. Reducing those stuns to nearly nothing makes a big difference to not getting steam rolled by the hammer train.

Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.

you’ve got it

the argument between melandrus and soldiers/shout build is basically settled in the fact that the shout build is made for higher sustain/con clearing. but you are basically immune to condis with melandrus, thus you can take more useful utilities like higher stability uptime or stomp.

especially with the buffed heal signet, you dont really need the burst healing from shouts anymore if you’re built right.

wrong, warriors arnt running shouts becasue blasting in water fields are better and in a gurdian heavy zerg with water fields, shout healing is not needed. + mending now cures 3 condis with lower CD.

jul.7602:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBiYDbkzJGu6x5BKOggeohVhAaK8DpHiBbkGA-j0xAoLACBQ2rIasV2ioxqsx0lER1ecioaZAYGDA-w

Too many warriors are running glassy builds or roaming build. More harm than good if your map is qued.

For group play, full soldier runes greatly outperforms melandru. Removing 4 conditions from allies in earshot is far more important than -25% condition and stun duration. Also if you scale it up to a zerg vs zerg, 4 warriors with soldier runes + 2 shouts + shrug it off will obviously be a better choice than melandru.

Warriors in ZvZ shouldn’t even be concerned with damage in their builds because every other light profession heavily out damages you from a range. Warriors can’t fufill the DPS role. Warriors strength lie in soaking up damage while helping their team sustain with constant buffs, swiftness and lots of condition removal and throwing in soem light CC.

Exactly, well said! My only contention is that virtually all warriors running with a zerg should be utilizing their elite banner instead of rampage.

JQ reporting

Health: 20780
Armor: ~3300
Power: ~2800 base
Crit Chance: ~50% base
Crit Damage: 55%

GS | S/Shield
Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, Berserker Stance, Rage Sig
0/20/30/0/20

When I’m in tanky (VPT) mod:
Health: ~35000 (up +2500 if I kill some npc)
Armor: ~3350
Power: ~3100 base
Crit Chance: 4% base
Crit Damage: 0%

But in Zerg, warrior who love damage can also play with a bow (like I do):
Health: ~19000 (up +2500 if I kill some npc)
Armor: ~2300
Power: ~3900 base
Crit Chance: ~80% base
Crit Damage: 120%

Here’s mine, no ascended gear bc I hate PVE.

I’m on JQ, in Decisive Actions we like to try to zerg smash with like 15-20 people so I run a very tanky front liner with #1 always being Don’t Die. One death = rallies = you aint zerg smashing.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

kurtosis.9526:

The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.

Yep, well aware of how crit damage optimisation works. I think you are missing my point (which admittedly I didn’t make very well). What I am saying is you that when you try to put crit damage and precision into a tank build you are turning it into a balanced build. That is the answer to your question of “why are T1 warriors are tougher than me?”. Answer: You are doing balanced (partial tank) and they are doing full tank.

Try this: http://goo.gl/cojkHW
(also use a bloodlust stacking weapon)

Not sure how accurate intothemists.com is (and I’m not near my gw2 PC) – but that ends up with:

Health 28712
Armor 3290
Attack 3423 (not including Bloodlust stacking)
Critical Hit 4% (i.e., zero extra precision)
Critical Damage 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration (self) -65%
Stun Duration (self) -30%
Healing Power 300
Boon Duration 10%
Burst Recharge 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration 15% (incidental)

Apart from traits, everything involves stacking power, toughness and vitality in some form – then the build focuses on stun reduction, conditon reduction and dodging.

You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp), banner for rezzing the downies and buffing your team mates, 20% stability uptime and lots of dodges. F1 skill and weapon swap give 50% endurance return (extra dodge) and the two stances are giving you 8 seconds vigor. You have Blast finishers (stomp, warhorn 5) for water and lightning fields.

Sigil of Restoration is constantly healing you while people in the enemy zerg (that you have tagged) are being finished. That sigil keeps your sustain really high.

I haven’t had time to test the Healing Signet after the buff so I’m not sure if that would be a better replacement for Healing Surge.

kurtosis.9526:

This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.

I think shout heal builds are better in PUG groups to keep the PUGs from dying. Guildies generally can look after themselves.

Melandru does stun duration reductions in addition to conditon reduction. In a T1 zerg ball the amount of warriors doing Earthshaker is usually off the scale. Reducing those stuns to nearly nothing makes a big difference to not getting steam rolled by the hammer train.

Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.

The difference between guild members and pugs is the coordination (voice chat) and synergy, skill between all players is relative unless you have some sort of solid proof that pugs aren’t as individually skilled as a guild groups.

-Stun duration% and heavy stun chains are completely irrelevant. Thats what stability is for. But again, you contradict yourself in your last statement by saying your dodging it completely. If you can so easily dodge CC trains, than you already proved that -stun duration wasn’t needed in the first place.

Shouts are used for immediate support and buffs. You’re neglecting the fact that all of our shouts are doing far more than removing an extra condition, they are fearing the enemies, and granting might and fury. We don’t give anything up for condition cleansing. With or without traits and soldiers, shouts are already good, soldiers and traits makes them significantly better. Essantially you don’t sacrifice anything.

You’re also completely exaggerating the difference between +25% condition duration and ignoring the fact that soldier runes affect 4 other people and show more synergy in groups.

Instant AoE cleansing>25% condition duration.

I’d just like to say I definitely don’t feel like my shouts are weak or holding me back or anything like that in WvW.

I run them on purpose, because I think its the strongest way I can run my Warrior for zerg v zerg (for lack of a better term). Including my shouts and warhorn I can AOE cleanse/convert 5 conditions every 20ish seconds. I don’t want to only remove them from me, I WANT the AOE cleanse/convert. This makes my whole team stronger.

As already mentioned I’m also giving everyone Fury and Might. Definitely not weak.

TBH I can’t think of anything better I would want on there for WvW.

Warlord.9074:

wrong, warriors arnt running shouts becasue blasting in water fields are better and in a gurdian heavy zerg with water fields, shout healing is not needed. + mending now cures 3 condis with lower CD.

I disagree with you.

So do the Warriors from RG.

You can NEVER have too much sustain, condi remove, healing, etc for ZvZ unless you’re always on the side with the 60man chasing down the 20. If you wanna be that 20 man group that smashes into the 60 and comes out on top….best not neglect that group support.

Hiya, nice to see a player from a server we are competing with. I’m on JQ as well and I’m a warrior and I go by the name Beowulf.

TC may have seen my strength for themselves, have watched me rise from the darkness of war, dripping with my enemies’ blood. I drove five great giants into chains, chased all of that race from the earth. I swam in the blackness of night, hunting monsters out of the ocean, and killing them one by one; death was my errand and the fate they had earned.

But I digress, it comes down to what role you want to play. I’m a frontliner so I’m all about Defense and staying alive and CC. I run shouts as well that heal, with the new heal regen I’m a kitten to kill and often last man standing. I stick to primarily power/toughness/vitality gear. I run Short sword/Shield and Warhammer. This is for WvWvW and big fights! Solo I can last a long time usually to wait till some show up to kill you guys off. If you want to do crazy DPS and hunt people down then this isn’t the way to go. This is to clear a line for your team have the enemy pile on you while range and dps take you out from a safer distance.

My stats are 30k health, 3100 attack, 407 health regen per second, 3,126 armor, 2000 toughness, that should give you an idea at least and pray to your Gods you may never cross my path!

:)

jul.7602:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNBiYDbkzJGu6x5BKOggeohVhAaK8DpHiBbkGA-j0xAoLACBQ2rIasV2ioxqsx0lER1ecioaZAYGDA-w

Too many warriors are running glassy builds or roaming build. More harm than good if your map is qued.

For group play, full soldier runes greatly outperforms melandru. Removing 4 conditions from allies in earshot is far more important than -25% condition and stun duration. Also if you scale it up to a zerg vs zerg, 4 warriors with soldier runes + 2 shouts + shrug it off will obviously be a better choice than melandru.

Warriors in ZvZ shouldn’t even be concerned with damage in their builds because every other light profession heavily out damages you from a range. Warriors can’t fufill the DPS role. Warriors strength lie in soaking up damage while helping their team sustain with constant buffs, swiftness and lots of condition removal and throwing in soem light CC.

I actually have exactly that gear set, except with Melandru runes instead of Soldiers, but typically run with a different trait build (20/0/20/0/30 or 0/15/25/0/30). Works great, plenty of escapes, always among the last standing if we wipe.

I’m farming up a P/V/T armor set with Soldiers Rune too, though, because there are some times it’s necessary, like when tagging along with a guild comp that requires it. Nice to have options and to be able to slot into any comp.

Now if only ANet could bring back Sentinels armor. 20g+ per piece is ridiculous.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp),

The new Stomp is by far my favorite Warrior ability now. So. much. fun. And it’s a stun break, Stabililty, and blast finisher all in one. <3

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.

Yes absolutely. That is the biggest win with Melandru Runes imho, you’re not locked into Shouts.

I come to Warrior from a Guardian, which was my main previously, and for WvW zerg frontlining at least, Warrior shouts are poor compared to Guardian shouts.

A mere two Guardian shouts provide 2x stun breaks, and AoE Stability/Protection/Regen/Retal on 24s-28s cd. Throw in either Save Yourselves! or Retreat! even more defensive buff awesomeness. Then trait for Shout Healing, and slot either Soldier Runes or Healing/Boon Duration Runes, for a really powerful Shout build.

Guardian Shouts just have a lot of natural build synergy without any major sacrifices, they’re a no-brainer for WvW. Shouts are a T1 skill for Guardians.

By comparison, the problem with Warrior shouts in WvW zerging is that they are more offensive oriented, when you need a heavily defensive spec.

If you go Shouts, then it’s at the cost of one or two additional stun breakers, Stability, or Invulnerability. It’s also difficult to get the trait to reduce Shout cooldowns, Lung Capacity, since it’s in the Master Tier competing with Quick Breathing and Vigorous Shouts, which almost all builds prioritize over shout cooldowns.

My impression coming a Guardian is that (in WvW only) Warrior Shouts are T2 skills, Stances are T1. Melandru Runes let you slot any combination of Balanced Stance, Endure Pain, Stomp, Dolyak Signet, or Shake It Off!, getting you some combination of 3x stun breakers, Stability, Invuln, 200 armor, or condition removal.

Far superior to what Shouts can offer, unless as I mentioned before, you’re running a guild comp built around Guards and Warriors all with Soldiers Runes and Shout builds, which case I think that mutual support is stronger than what a Melandru/Stance based build can offer.

But strong opinions on both sides of this, so I’m putting together a P/V/T set with Soldiers Runes for specifically that purpose, to be able to swap gear and run with Shout/Soldiers comps if they happen to be on the map without screwing them up. It’s easy to have both sets, since Melandru can be had from Orr temple and Soldiers Runes can be crafted.

Daniel Warren.4968:

JQ reporting

Health: 20780
Armor: ~3300
Power: ~2800 base
Crit Chance: ~50% base
Crit Damage: 55%

GS | S/Shield
Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, Berserker Stance, Rage Sig
0/20/30/0/20

Thanks, do you zerg frontline with that or is that a roaming build? I ask b/c Zerker Stance + not much AoE tagging ability there, it seems.

ashlenty.9358:

When I’m in tanky (VPT) mod:
Health: ~35000 (up +2500 if I kill some npc)
Armor: ~3350
Power: ~3100 base
Crit Chance: 4% base
Crit Damage: 0%

But in Zerg, warrior who love damage can also play with a bow (like I do):
Health: ~19000 (up +2500 if I kill some npc)
Armor: ~2300
Power: ~3900 base
Crit Chance: ~80% base
Crit Damage: 120%

Crazy health. Wish I’d got my war to 80 before the Sentinel gear was discontinued and still cheap. Have the jewels from left over Azurite Orbs, but not the full armor.

And that is really nice to be able to switch up stats like that. Do you use the same build, or have to retrait too?

Velron.3729:

Here’s mine, no ascended gear bc I hate PVE.

I’m on JQ, in Decisive Actions we like to try to zerg smash with like 15-20 people so I run a very tanky front liner with #1 always being Don’t Die. One death = rallies = you aint zerg smashing.

Thanks. /agree on Don’t Die, priority #1.

PS – you know you can buy Ascended gear with Laurels + Badges? No need to PvE to get it anymore.

Gotchaz.7865:

Hiya, nice to see a player from a server we are competing with. I’m on JQ as well and I’m a warrior and I go by the name Beowulf.

TC may have seen my strength for themselves, have watched me rise from the darkness of war, dripping with my enemies’ blood. I drove five great giants into chains, chased all of that race from the earth. I swam in the blackness of night, hunting monsters out of the ocean, and killing them one by one; death was my errand and the fate they had earned.

:D +1

Gotchaz.7865:

My stats are 30k health, 3100 attack, 407 health regen per second, 3,126 armor, 2000 toughness, that should give you an idea at least and pray to your Gods you may never cross my path!

:)

407 health regen per second, is that from healing Signet + Adrenal Health?

kurtosis.9526:

Velron.3729:

Here’s mine, no ascended gear bc I hate PVE.

I’m on JQ, in Decisive Actions we like to try to zerg smash with like 15-20 people so I run a very tanky front liner with #1 always being Don’t Die. One death = rallies = you aint zerg smashing.

Thanks. /agree on Don’t Die, priority #1.

PS – you know you can buy Ascended gear with Laurels + Badges? No need to PvE to get it anymore.

Yeah my Engi was more my main so he has the full ascended jewelry now…gotta work on the Warrior next. It takes quite a while doing it this way unfortunately. Think I have enough to get my amulet right now though.

What’s funny is I pretty much finished the Engis ascended stuff and stopped playing him very much. Warrior is just 10x more effective for ZvZ. No stability = no bueno.

kurtosis.9526:

Gotchaz.7865:

Hiya, nice to see a player from a server we are competing with. I’m on JQ as well and I’m a warrior and I go by the name Beowulf.

TC may have seen my strength for themselves, have watched me rise from the darkness of war, dripping with my enemies’ blood. I drove five great giants into chains, chased all of that race from the earth. I swam in the blackness of night, hunting monsters out of the ocean, and killing them one by one; death was my errand and the fate they had earned.

:D +1

Gotchaz.7865:

My stats are 30k health, 3100 attack, 407 health regen per second, 3,126 armor, 2000 toughness, that should give you an idea at least and pray to your Gods you may never cross my path!

:)

407 health regen per second, is that from healing Signet + Adrenal Health?

407/s is what Healing Signet heals for with just the 300 Healing Power you get from the Defense line.

That same HP level gets you 396 every 3 seconds on the Adrenal Health or w/e trait that passively regens based on Adrenaline level.

jul.7602:

-Stun duration% and heavy stun chains are completely irrelevant. Thats what stability is for. But again, you contradict yourself in your last statement by saying your dodging it completely. If you can so easily dodge CC trains, than you already proved that -stun duration wasn’t needed in the first place.

You are putting words in my mouth – I did not say “completely” – I said dodges are in good supply – dodges are never infinite. But you already know that not everything can be dodged completely. Let’s not forget that players make mistakes when dodging, too early, too late etc.. no one is perfect.
Stability is also a finite resource and at times during long fights you and your guardians can run out of stability cooldowns.
So when stability isn’t up and dodges are missed or unavailable – stuns will happen.
That is where -stun duration comes into play.
Usually those times when you are all running out of endurance and stability is when your group is in the most vulnerable position and it is crucial to stay up.

jul.7602:

Shouts are used for immediate support and buffs. You’re neglecting the fact that all of our shouts are doing far more than removing an extra condition, they are fearing the enemies, and granting might and fury. We don’t give anything up for condition cleansing. With or without traits and soldiers, shouts are already good, soldiers and traits makes them significantly better. Essantially you don’t sacrifice anything.

Fair enough comment – I’m not saying you have to get rid of the shouts if you like the active skill on them – I am saying if you are an organised group and you are only running shouts because you want the side effect of shout heals and shout AoE condition cleansing then you are better off running with water fields and blast finishers and everyone running melandrus. I ran a shout build for a few hundred hours and I found the shout actives underwhelming so I prefer melandru. Do remember I said “Melandru is better IMO” – so it’s only my opinion and you are equally entitled to having your opinion. I can see I’ve touched the raw nerve of a shout heal warrior – so let’s just say both builds have their advantages and disadvantages. You can go your way – I’ll go mine and the battlefield can sort out who is right

Velron.3729:

Warlord.9074:

wrong, warriors arnt running shouts becasue blasting in water fields are better and in a gurdian heavy zerg with water fields, shout healing is not needed. + mending now cures 3 condis with lower CD.

I disagree with you.

So do the Warriors from RG.

You can NEVER have too much sustain, condi remove, healing, etc for ZvZ unless you’re always on the side with the 60man chasing down the 20. If you wanna be that 20 man group that smashes into the 60 and comes out on top….best not neglect that group support.

RGs meta has already been broken in T1. T1 looked at the meta RG was running and countered it. It got broken with in a month by several guilds. RG and other guilds who copied that META got farmed as well. Not going to name names but there are several guilds in T1 who run a counter meta to the RG meta now.

Warlord.9074:

Velron.3729:

Warlord.9074:

wrong, warriors arnt running shouts becasue blasting in water fields are better and in a gurdian heavy zerg with water fields, shout healing is not needed. + mending now cures 3 condis with lower CD.

I disagree with you.

So do the Warriors from RG.

You can NEVER have too much sustain, condi remove, healing, etc for ZvZ unless you’re always on the side with the 60man chasing down the 20. If you wanna be that 20 man group that smashes into the 60 and comes out on top….best not neglect that group support.

RGs meta has already been broken in T1. T1 looked at the meta RG was running and countered it. It got broken with in a month by several guilds. RG and other guilds who copied that META got farmed as well. Not going to name names but there are several guilds in T1 who run a counter meta to the RG meta now.

You do realize all you’ve done so far in this thread is claim no one runs shouts anymore and have provided absolutely no alternative to what is superior and why?

Guardian shouts are better, yes. Warriors shouts and Guardian shouts both going together is even better than either alone.

I just fail to see how they can be replaced with anything better. I don’t need stances like Endure Pain or Berserker Stance in WvW with my guild, I only need my Stability sig/stance. Stuff like stomp is gimmicky and silly to me, a 40-kitten CD and all it does is launch a few people OUT of our centered damage. Bulls is single target, bolas single target, most signets not needed. Just not seeing this better Warrior “t1 meta” (lol @ meta in WvW – the meta is more numbers for 24/7 coverage).

I run ~25k hp with wvw/food bonuses.
56% crit chance with fury
50% crit dmg
~2k power with food
~3k armor

I run 20 in strength and with empower and destruction of the empowered, with shout healing/soldier runes kind of a weird build but meh I do big numbers, have awesome group support with shouts and the nice sweetpoint of 3k armor and 25k hp so i basically never die, cant complain. Just experimenting atm.

Shout healing is still extremely good, have fun blasting those waterfields in combat efficiently and you can never have too much sustain, and you wont sacrifice much if you pick up shout healing its just too good, 5 warriors using 2 shouts can heal overall for like ~70k.

Velron.3729:

Warlord.9074:

Velron.3729:

Warlord.9074:

wrong, warriors arnt running shouts becasue blasting in water fields are better and in a gurdian heavy zerg with water fields, shout healing is not needed. + mending now cures 3 condis with lower CD.

I disagree with you.

So do the Warriors from RG.

You can NEVER have too much sustain, condi remove, healing, etc for ZvZ unless you’re always on the side with the 60man chasing down the 20. If you wanna be that 20 man group that smashes into the 60 and comes out on top….best not neglect that group support.

RGs meta has already been broken in T1. T1 looked at the meta RG was running and countered it. It got broken with in a month by several guilds. RG and other guilds who copied that META got farmed as well. Not going to name names but there are several guilds in T1 who run a counter meta to the RG meta now.

You do realize all you’ve done so far in this thread is claim no one runs shouts anymore and have provided absolutely no alternative to what is superior and why?

Guardian shouts are better, yes. Warriors shouts and Guardian shouts both going together is even better than either alone.

I just fail to see how they can be replaced with anything better. I don’t need stances like Endure Pain or Berserker Stance in WvW with my guild, I only need my Stability sig/stance. Stuff like stomp is gimmicky and silly to me, a 40-kitten CD and all it does is launch a few people OUT of our centered damage. Bulls is single target, bolas single target, most signets not needed. Just not seeing this better Warrior “t1 meta” (lol @ meta in WvW – the meta is more numbers for 24/7 coverage).

The META u are referring to a pain train on a dime has been countered in T1. Coverage aside from the current discussion is a bit off topic. All of the physical utilities are off topic. No one is using physical utilities except for small ops. Where in small groups of 5 physical utilities shine.

You said I didn’t offer no alternative I did. I told you group comp and use of water fields while maintaining an calculated ratio of class balance in zergs outweighs shout healing. Blasting in waterfields far outweighs shouts by a long shot. And in turn becasue shout healing isnt needed warriors can spec for more damage, or use differnt weapons more effectively, while having more stun breakers and more stability. If your running a warrior heavy meta just have only 2-3 dedicated clerics spec banner warriors far out weighs shout healing and you only need 2 warriors doing that. I originally wrote more to prove my point but I decided to delete it. We have spent lots of time theory crafting on warrior builds a breaking the current meta why would I tell everyone else when they can just copy what they think is good and we can get more bags from them. Anyways do whatever you want. Not going to try to change peoples minds.

Warlord.9074:

group comp and use of water fields while maintaining an calculated ratio of class balance in zergs outweighs shout healing. Blasting in waterfields far outweighs shouts by a long shot. And in turn becasue shout healing isnt needed warriors can spec for more damage, or use differnt weapons more effectively, while having more stun breakers and more stability

Shouts aren’t just for healing, but also for AoE condition removal. What are those comps doing for condition removal, Melandru or something else?

And I do agree, it’s really nice to not have to slot shouts on a Warrior if you can figure out a comp that works without them. They’re fine in dungeons, but meh in WvW.

Warlord did you seriously just suggest banners are better than shouts for WvW?

Lets just agree to disagree, if you think banners are ideal over shouts for WvW where combat is constantly moving around, we will never see eye to eye.

edit : BTW, just realized I think there’s a misunderstanding causing this. My guild isn’t huge, we don’t have a massive amount of Warriors. Usually 2-3 of us, maybe 3 guardians…we aren’t massive.

I think Warlord is referring to stacking your zerg with Water fields + Blast finishers, hence the banners on warriors.

What I’m curious about is where does the condition removal come from then, if your frontline is not running Shout/Soldier Rune builds. Melandru builds (runes + soup + Dogged March), or something else?

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

kurtosis.9526:

The problem is, Crit Damage is the most optimal choice in terms of stat point costs for Ascended trinkets. So I’d rather go with Cavalier Ascended trinkets, Soldiers/Sentinels everywhere else, and completely sacrifice Precision, which you can get from Traits, Sigils, Boons, and Buffs instead.

Yep, well aware of how crit damage optimisation works. I think you are missing my point (which admittedly I didn’t make very well). What I am saying is you that when you try to put crit damage and precision into a tank build you are turning it into a balanced build. That is the answer to your question of “why are T1 warriors are tougher than me?”. Answer: You are doing balanced (partial tank) and they are doing full tank.

Try this: http://goo.gl/cojkHW
(also use a bloodlust stacking weapon)

Not sure how accurate intothemists.com is (and I’m not near my gw2 PC) – but that ends up with:

Health 28712
Armor 3290
Attack 3423 (not including Bloodlust stacking)
Critical Hit 4% (i.e., zero extra precision)
Critical Damage 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration (self) -65%
Stun Duration (self) -30%
Healing Power 300
Boon Duration 10%
Burst Recharge 15% (incidental)
Condition Duration 15% (incidental)

Apart from traits, everything involves stacking power, toughness and vitality in some form – then the build focuses on stun reduction, conditon reduction and dodging.

You have 3 stunbreakers (my favourite is Stomp), banner for rezzing the downies and buffing your team mates, 20% stability uptime and lots of dodges. F1 skill and weapon swap give 50% endurance return (extra dodge) and the two stances are giving you 8 seconds vigor. You have Blast finishers (stomp, warhorn 5) for water and lightning fields.

Sigil of Restoration is constantly healing you while people in the enemy zerg (that you have tagged) are being finished. That sigil keeps your sustain really high.

I haven’t had time to test the Healing Signet after the buff so I’m not sure if that would be a better replacement for Healing Surge.

kurtosis.9526:

This really depends on guild comp. If you have, say, 5 Wars and 5 Guards in your frontline, all running Soldier Runes, that’s more effective condition removal than Melandru + Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

But if on the other hand you run solo a lot, or with pug/militia zergs, or guild groups that don’t require specific builds, then Melandru + Soup + Dogged March + Cleansing Ire is a better option for dealing with conditions.

I think shout heal builds are better in PUG groups to keep the PUGs from dying. Guildies generally can look after themselves.

Melandru does stun duration reductions in addition to conditon reduction. In a T1 zerg ball the amount of warriors doing Earthshaker is usually off the scale. Reducing those stuns to nearly nothing makes a big difference to not getting steam rolled by the hammer train.

Even if you ignore the stun duration, then look at what you give up for that condition cleansing – it will be 1 to 3 utility slots taken up with shouts (depending on how many shouts each warrior runs) on all 5 of your guild’s warriors. Running Melandru means you can now get rid of your shout utility skill(s) and shout traits and put something better than a shout in its place.
You can also replace the shout traits with something useful.
Imagine your 5 condi clearing warriors now running Stomp.
Bodies flying everywhere while they use perma vigor to dodge the hammer train.

Just popped in to say that this build is probably the perfect WvW build, and our guild pretty much runs this exact build with just a few slight variations. I tried the restoration sigil and stomp last night, and now those are going to be permanent additions – great tip!

shouts are healing around 6k x 5 every 20 seconds, if you have 5 warriors running shouts thats nearly 100k heals every 20 seconds without even thinking about the condition removal and buffs they are giving.

Seren.6850:

shouts are healing around 6k x 5 every 20 seconds, if you have 5 warriors running shouts thats nearly 100k heals every 20 seconds without even thinking about the condition removal and buffs they are giving.

Wrong shouts are healing for around 3k every 25-30 seconds. And curing 4 conditions. on a 3 shout build. With no stability, and one stun breaker.

Mending + Melandru Setup is currently curing 3 conditions 5.5k every 20 seconds. and making the warriors immune to CC. Freeing up all the utility slots for even more condition removal than shouts could provide. And providing more stability and stun breakers than a warrior could ever ask for and Endure pain if you wanted it.

Guardians can go contemplation of purity and save your selfs and cure more conditions from a zerg than a shout warrior could ever dream to cure. Rangers and Eles can throw down water fields and gurdians can spam blast in them and heal for more HP than a warrior can ever dream to.

Shouts are not only Over kill but they are not needed and not the best anymore. And its pretty much been like this for months.

Edit I think shouts are still a pretty viable build that still works really well. Just given the other options that warriors and organized guilds can now go I don’t see it as the #1 build anymore.

jul.7602:

Warriors can’t fufill the DPS role. Warriors strength lie in soaking up damage while helping their team sustain with constant buffs, swiftness and lots of condition removal and throwing in soem light CC.

Yes they can. If you want to play buff bot thats fine but warriors can be great dpsers in WvWvW, besides, I didnt roll class called WARRIOR to be some banner wearing back line pipe blower to support people.

Anyway:
HP: 23.400
Armor: 3100
Power: 2050%
Crit: 40%
Crit Dmg: 51%

How is everyone ignoring warhorn !!
The weapon combo for this type of play, without a doubt is Hammer/Sword+Warhorn
A warrior is never backline, you are initiation, you are the hammer to the guardians Anchor/Pre-bomb.

Warlord.9074:

Wrong shouts are healing for around 3k every 25-30 seconds. And curing 4 conditions. on a 3 shout build. With no stability, and one stun breaker.

Pretty sure shouts heal ~1.4k and no one would ever run without dolyak signet/balanced stance. So thats 2.8k heal to 5 people every ~25 seconds, meaning 5 warriors (tho usually we run more) will heal for ~70k every 25 seconds while having 2 stunbreakers.

I also think Stomp maybe works for some people, but it can really be a waste of a slot because people tend to use stability, its a must in organized groups, best that will happen is that you will knock that 1 unlucky guy without stability out of the group and he get right back in :/
Also builds with endure pain/defy pain its like you are going into a fight knowing you will die. Waste of a trait and a utility slot really. If you need both of them you are doing something wrong, there are way better options imo.

I use 0/0/20/30/20, the healing shout is just too good for group sustain during a fight along with healing signet+adrenal health+dogged march regen, its amazing.
You could basically just use 2 shouts+stability with melandru runes and lemongrass for -65 condi duration AND the healing shouts for the sustain.
If you want big damage then you got eles/necros for that.
And water blasting during a fight will get messy and fields will overlap (null field, wells etc), its best to shout during combat and do quick regroups with waterfields imo.

Interesting to try with 0 shout heal warriors tho and switching the shouts for some other utilities, but I dont think there are many utilities that are useful in wvw lol, might think of something tho.

JQ

Health 29702
Vitality 2049
Armor 3146
Toughness 1935
Attack 3987
Power 2853
Precision 916
Critical Hit 24%

I never dip down low into my HP numbers (you can see pic above, around 32k) unless the entire team has wiped so I thought I should mess with trading vitality for other stats.

So today I am experimenting with swapping my rings and earrings for knights.

Self buffed stats with no sigil stacks now look something like

3460 attack
43% crit chance
21% crit dmg
3409 armor
28k health

I am pretty excited to try this out later.

Velron.3729:

I never dip down low into my HP numbers (you can see pic above, around 32k) unless the entire team has wiped so I thought I should mess with trading vitality for other stats.

So today I am experimenting with swapping my rings and earrings for knights.

Self buffed stats with no sigil stacks now look something like

3460 attack
43% crit chance
21% crit dmg
3409 armor
28k health

I am pretty excited to try this out later.

How exactly do you achieve these stats? <.<

Warlord.9074:

Seren.6850:

shouts are healing around 6k x 5 every 20 seconds, if you have 5 warriors running shouts thats nearly 100k heals every 20 seconds without even thinking about the condition removal and buffs they are giving.

Wrong shouts are healing for around 3k every 25-30 seconds. And curing 4 conditions. on a 3 shout build. With no stability, and one stun breaker.

Mending + Melandru Setup is currently curing 3 conditions 5.5k every 20 seconds. and making the warriors immune to CC. Freeing up all the utility slots for even more condition removal than shouts could provide. And providing more stability and stun breakers than a warrior could ever ask for and Endure pain if you wanted it.

Guardians can go contemplation of purity and save your selfs and cure more conditions from a zerg than a shout warrior could ever dream to cure. Rangers and Eles can throw down water fields and gurdians can spam blast in them and heal for more HP than a warrior can ever dream to.

Shouts are not only Over kill but they are not needed and not the best anymore. And its pretty much been like this for months.

Edit I think shouts are still a pretty viable build that still works really well. Just given the other options that warriors and organized guilds can now go I don’t see it as the #1 build anymore.

3.3 k on zerker traits with 0 points in defense and not picking shout reduction, 6k every 25 sec with little effort. Do we know each other? last tsym workshop I was at all warriors had to run 2 water 2 monk 2 sanctuary. I just always ran my shout heals, I use to run with tsym alot before they left sos

I use last stand trait instead of using a utility slot on it for stability.

In T1, the only thing I noticed, fighting SOR BG AND JQ is that you musn’t die. Or you will rally the enemy downs. Whether you go combo of knight or pvt or what not. The key is to have sigil of restoration. And runes using either melandru/soldier/dolyak/hoelbrak.

It will be a boring fight of press W 1 and f1 (if skill allows due to super lag). (hammer warrior)

The difference though is while we do have good builds, it is the synergy with other players that matter. Disciplined zergs/ players get the ppt win and wipe th enemy zerg. And a quick eye in spotting the enemy commander and killing him.