Guild Wars 2

Tactical Thinking
5: Increased healing and revive speed based on how much adrenaline you have built.
Stage 1: 5%
Stage 2: 10%
Stage 3: 15%

This is mostly for Hybrid builds and would allow people to mix and match with the other traits.

Cleansing Regeneration
15: When you remove a condition from yourself, grant 1 second of regeneration and protection to yourself. This includes when you miss with blind. (When you miss with a blind, it technically removes it, so it counts towards that.)

This would go well with a lot of our traits, cleansing ire, healing shouts (with soldier runes.), Sigils, ect ect. This would also work for allies cleansing you as well.

Tactical Renewal
25: Heals the warrior and cures a condition on weapon swap.
Healing: 1,892 (1.0) (10 second cool-down.)

Self Explanatory, this would be unique to the Warrior.

These are all wildly overpowered. If you want people to take you seriously you need to tone down the strength of these new traits to reasonable levels.

Like, comparable to what already exists in the game.

Like, not 1900 hp every 5 seconds or crazy regen/protection.

Like you said, warriors aren’t big on boons, so why are you trying to make them into something they aren’t?

Also, your version of Tactical Renewal would hardly be unique to the Warrior. Sigil of leeching & Elementalist Healing Ripple both heal on weapon (or attunement) swap, except they both are significantly weaker than your version which goes back to what I said at the beginning about toning it down if you want to be taken seriously.

wolfpaq.7354:

These are all wildly overpowered. If you want people to take you seriously you need to tone down the strength of these new traits to reasonable levels.

Like, comparable to what already exists in the game.

Like, not 1900 hp every 5 seconds or crazy regen/protection.

Like you said, warriors aren’t big on boons, so why are you trying to make them into something they aren’t?

Also, your version of Tactical Renewal would hardly be unique to the Warrior. Sigil of leeching & Elementalist Healing Ripple both heal on weapon (or attunement) swap, except they both are significantly weaker than your version which goes back to what I said at the beginning about toning it down if you want to be taken seriously.

Sorry, I don’t see how its overpowered if other classes have that. It looks like almost the same power, except Warriors have more HP so it should heal more.

Don’t see how gaining boons for removing conditions is overpowered, seeing as it has a lot of counter play and warriors don’t have a passive way to remove boons, it is only 1 second.

Healing Ripple also heals nearby allies, whilst this just heals the warrior, Aka you have no idea what your talking about.

Please redefine your definition of overpowered as well, because I think you need a better dictionary.

Just because other classes have OP minor traits doesn’t mean that should be the standard.

1) Increases healing done? That’s a lot of increased healing for 5 points that any warrior could spec into. That’s an additional ~1.5k+ healing from Healing surge, ~800+ healing from mending, and ~50 more healing/second from Healing signet when you’re at max adrenaline.

That’s not ‘for hybrid builds’, that’s a mandatory 5 points in the tactics tree.

2) Remove ‘when you miss with blind’ and… maybe. I know Blinds kill us, a lot, but for the classes that have the most access to it (ie: rogues) they don’t have much defense outside of blind.

I’m not sure about giving warriors protection, to me it doesn’t fit well with the warrior aesthetic, and there are better ways to increase their sustain. Regen doesn’t seem too bad, except for the synergy with healing signet.

3) Not sure how this fits with the warrior aesthetic, to be honest. Again, I fear it synergizes too well with healing signet (given it’s new power, we need to be careful adding any other healing to the class).

Also, it pretty much forces anyone who goes that far into tactics to also go into at least 5 points into discipline… not a large commitment, but it still goes against the idea of promoting diversity in trait choices.

Derren.8724:

1) Increases healing done? That’s a lot of increased healing for 5 points that any warrior could spec into. That’s an additional ~1.5k+ healing from Healing surge, ~800+ healing from mending, and ~50 more healing/second from Healing signet when you’re at max adrenaline.

That’s not ‘for hybrid builds’, that’s a mandatory 5 points in the tactics tree.

2) Remove ‘when you miss with blind’ and… maybe. I know Blinds kill us, a lot, but for the classes that have the most access to it (ie: rogues) they don’t have much defense outside of blind.

I’m not sure about giving warriors protection, to me it doesn’t fit well with the warrior aesthetic, and there are better ways to increase their sustain. Regen doesn’t seem too bad, except for the synergy with healing signet.

3) Not sure how this fits with the warrior aesthetic, to be honest. Again, I fear it synergizes too well with healing signet (given it’s new power, we need to be careful adding any other healing to the class).

Also, it pretty much forces anyone who goes that far into tactics to also go into at least 5 points into discipline… not a large commitment, but it still goes against the idea of promoting diversity in trait choices.

Warriors have to get 0/0/0/0/15 don’t they? I like the idea of making all traits good so you have a hard time choosing em, but these are just ideas.

Thieves have stealth. Lol.

Its one second, so you would have to pretty much time it pretty well very actively with your abilities and cure when ya really need to -33% a hit.

15 points, sorry. Though if you add these changes most warrs will feel forced to at least go 5 tactics/15 discipline, which is 20 points consumed already.

That also makes going the rest of the way into tactics even more appealing. (your 5/10/15% healing increase would apply to the 25 trait as well… and to regen… you realize how much sustained healing a 1h/shield – x warrior could have with healing signet, constant weapon swapping, full adren and condition cleanses?)

Stealth doesn’t actively block attacks, it just makes it a little harder to hit them. You can still damage and down stealthed thieves if you act fast enough/know where they’re going to run.

On paper it’s one second, but using a burst move with cleansing ire can cleanse up to 3 conditions, signet of stamina cures all conditions on you, and if you add boon duration, multiple cleanses, and allies/light zones cleansing, you can stack up a decent regen duration in combat…

…provided there are a lot of conditions flying about. I have the least issue with that idea, more a concern over synergy with other abilities, and not being sure if warriors should have aegis.

Are you talking about tactics or defense tree because defense has the healing stat which would work better w/ more healing stuff.

If its tactics,
I would make determined revival give 2 vitality per lvl all the time
Make the bonus revive speed on 15 affect the speed you are revived at
Change Reviver’s Might to grant 35 vitality per might stack (still helps w/ reviving but can be countered by stealing or removing the boon)

Daecollo.9578:

Tactical Thinking
5: Increased healing and revive speed based on how much adrenaline you have built.
Stage 1: 5%
Stage 2: 10%
Stage 3: 15%

This is mostly for Hybrid builds and would allow people to mix and match with the other traits.

No, that’s mostly for the 30/0/0/10/30 metabuild so that it can get even stronger without you having to sacrifice any of your precious damage.

Cleansing Regeneration
15: When you remove a condition from yourself, grant 1 second of regeneration and protection to yourself. This includes when you miss with blind. (When you miss with a blind, it technically removes it, so it counts towards that.)

Would make Signet of Stamina and Mending OP.

Tactical Renewal
25: Heals the warrior on weapon swap.
Healing: 1,892 (1.0) (4 second cool-down.)

Excuse me, that’s 378 hp/s additional to what we already have. And considering that the metabuild centers on swapping weapons as frequently as possible, I think you’re playing to your strengths again.

Hell, throw in Healing Signet and we’re talking 770 hp/s with no Healing Power whatsoever. Throw in Adrenal Health and that’s 890 hp/s.

Way to OP.

Please go back to the thief forum, if a warrior puts all that into defense, he won’t have the damage, and if he is 30/0/0/10/30, he is very squishy, even with a healing increase.

I like how you said “So OP”.

Technically you could get that HP/S, if you pick up your banner up and down over/over. OR swap it every time its up (5 seconds not 4 seconds.) with a 15 trait. However that would be kittenarded. You only switch weapons when you need them, not just to heal up over/over, you cannot fight like that.

I am afraid to say this, but the Cleansing Regeneration, besides the numbers being kinda silly, has potentional.

A trait like this would need to come with an internal, and some higher duration, and no blind being removed when you miss is not compareable to removing it yourself.

A traited warhorn will give you ~5s of protection and regen (+ more protection/regen if the according condition is converted) for you and your party every 12s.
That is way out of line. That minor trait would allow me to have perm protection in that form (while running around dealing between 2-4k autoattack damage depending on enemy squishyness).

I could see something like 3s of protection on a 10-20s cooldown though.

The swap trait is completely out of control.
The HPS is not just high, it surpasses most HPS of heals.
It would be more HPS than Healing Surge with always 3 bars of adrenaline.
I just made some rough estimations about heals in general, and I thing, this trait would be better than any other heal ingame (and on top of that we would have our standard heal, as everyone else does).
It would definitely outheal both grandmaster traits, which just screams “OP”.

The bonus heal per adrenaline would be another “hoard your adrenaline” trait, which are bad to begin with.

@Varonth.5830:] You would only get the proc from curing yourself, not all 5 people in your party bro. (It was like that, but I changed that awile ago, because it would be way to powerful if it proced from curing everyone.)

Both your warhorn abilities would only give you 1 second of both each.

That trait is comparable to what other classes have, except its more towards yourself and not your allies, it could be toned down to heal all allies, but that doesn’t really flavor the warrior much or make any sense.

Here is what I wanted:

Hey look a big attack is coming towards me! uses shrug it off now I get 1 second of protection/regeneration and absorb that hit. Active combat.

Anyways, I changed the heal to be a bit nerfed, but also cure a condition.

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

You would have to wait until you had all three (still situational.) then wait until you had another condition, then use it.

How many people are gonna wait for that?

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

More often than I like to
3 is basically the standard amount of condition removed by charge.
4 is quite common.

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

More often than I like to
3 is basically the standard amount of condition removed by charge.
4 is quite common.

Well maybe they shouldn’t spam all their conditions on you mindlessly then!

As a Necro I usually use them separately, because I know warriors can do that.

Daecollo.9578:

Please go back to the thief forum, if a warrior puts all that into defense, he won’t have the damage, and if he is 30/0/0/10/30, he is very squishy, even with a healing increase.

Oh come on, please stop pretending like Warriors need 30/x/x/x/30 to have decent damage.

Technically you could get that HP/S, if you pick up your banner up and down over/over. OR swap it every time its up (5 seconds not 4 seconds.) with a 15 trait. However that would be kittenarded. You only switch weapons when you need them, not just to heal up over/over, you cannot fight like that.

Technically nothing. As an example, in PvE, you’re supposed to rotate between your axe/mace and GS as often as possible. Throw in a Sigil of Battle for good measure and you’re getting even more damage out of it.

And honestly, you’re suggesting a trait that makes minor Grandmaster heal more than major Grandmaster by an absolutely ridiculous factor.

Why not just suggest that we get 10 seconds of invulnerable whenever we use burst?

Daecollo, I think you’re trying to make the warrior better (opposed to being a troll), but you just want to make us way too powerful, or (as it sometimes seems) make the way you play even stronger. About a month and a half ago, you suggested that all of our heals become outrageously strong (if I can get 1.5k/s heals with healing signet, something is wrong).

For reference, I run knights gear with 0/30/30/0/10 and sword/shield & lb, mostly doing PvE, fractals (mid 20s) just started doing dungeons more, with minor WvW and PvP (~lvl 14 I think) and I use basically the same build for everything (besides trading out utils). I’ve never run full zerker, and I don’t like the feel of most of the other weapons. Since I don’t play PvP that much, I won’t comment really on the balance between the classes when they fight each other. Here are just a couple of things wrong I noticed with this:

Tactical Thinking
5: Increased healing and revive speed based on how much adrenaline you have built.
Stage 1: 5% Stage 2: 10% Stage 3: 15%

This is mostly for Hybrid builds and would allow people to mix and match with the other traits.

As someone said, that isn’t for hybrid builds. It’s for people who are using either the grandmaster Strength or Discipline traits to max damage, and this gives them access to more healing, making that build even popular/powerful. It’s bad enough people say (at least I think they still do) that zerker warrior with gs is OP, you’re just giving those builds more survivability.

Even if it isn’t intended for those builds, 5 trait points just gave most warriors an extra 15% more healing, considering it’s still possible to have full adrenaline while still using your burst skills. Now, compare this to the minor healing traits of the ele (Soothing Mist: While on water —> radius of 1200, low healing) and the guard (Inspired Virtue: popping Resolve --> 5s regeneration). And those are in addition to any normal effects those skills do.

Now I don’t know if you mean add in the extra healing after everything else or maybe just the base value. But even if just going on the base value, for healing sig that gives an extra 60hp/sec (which you’d need an extra 1200 healing power to replicate), it’d be more if you added it in after factoring healing power. Plus that’d affect adrenal healing (360+0.15*healingpower) for another >60hp/3sec (the same as adding an extra 400 healing power). This gets even more insane for our burst heals which actually scale good with healing power. Healing Surge: 9,820 (1.50) (gives an extra 1473 off just the base value, that’s the same as an extra 1k healing power). How can you justify a adapt minor trait to be equal to 400-1.2k healing power (assuming that this 15% would just affect the base heal and not be added in at the end).

Cleansing Regeneration
15: When you remove a condition from yourself, grant 1 second of regeneration and protection to yourself. This includes when you miss with blind. (When you miss with a blind, it technically removes it, so it counts towards that.)

This would go well with a lot of our traits, cleansing ire, healing shouts (with soldier runes.), Sigils, ect ect. This would also work for allies cleansing you as well.

Okay, right off the bat, as others have said. No to the blind thing (I know this is a pvp gripe but), you’re basically saying that you want a thief blind build (or any profession that uses blinds heavily) to make you unkillable. This means you can just stand in a blind field on purpose to give yourself protection and regen.

This may have merit if conditions weren’t so constantly applied. You state why this is over powered. A shout build can now get a lot of protection/regen (on top of their shouts already healing), the warhorn gets a big buff (since I don’t use it much I don’t know if it needs it or not, but considering it can already get rid of our snares and give us vigor, it doesn’t seem to need one), and makes cleansing ire too good I’d argue (and gives a boost to healing shout warriors, which I have no idea if they need or not). Now I love cleansing ire, as it fit right into what I’ve been using and gave lets me save signet of stamina for it’s passive. But now you want it to also add [130 + (0.125*healing power)]+0-15% hp and give us 33% damage reduction for 3 sec.

Also you need to consider the extremes when you come up with suggestions: 20 in defense for cleansing ire, 15 in tactics for your suggestion and 15 in discipline for fast hands, lets you: burst (3s regen/proc), weapon swap & sig of furry, burst (another 3s regen/proc before the first 3sec wore off), weapon swap & gain adrenaline skill and final burst. That gets you almost 9s of constant regen/protection. Is it hard, yeah, but not impossible to do. Or, just use a shout build, for a lesser but easier to do effect. Heck it’s even easier if you include other classes helping you. Ele’s attuning to water or guards using any of their party wide condi removal. And in the little PvP I’ve played there have been plenty of times when I’ve had 3-6 conditions on me, signet of stamina throw in with cleansing ire and you’re minor trait seems way too strong. If conditions were not applied so heavily you may have some kind of point. But when so many auto attacks apply conditions (and many mobs use bleeds or burns attacks/AoEs) how can you say giving us protection/regen from someone’s autoattack isn’t broken?

To be fair, this could possibly work. Throw an internal cool down on it’s activation, and remove your blind activation and it could work. [Similar to Dodge March for example: Incoming immobilize, chill, and cripple durations are reduced by 33%. Gain regeneration for 3 seconds when you are affected by one of these conditions (this regeneration can only be gained once every 10 seconds).] But in principal I still don’t like it for two reasons. 1) it’s a minor trait, make it a major master trait and I’d be better with it (though still need to talk about duration and if it should really give protection and regen). 2) the reasons guards/eles have protection is because of their low health pool, (thieves have stealth, and mesmers have their clones) all to help mitigate damage. We have a high health pool (and ways to block/get vigor), if you give us easy access to protection something just feels wrong.

Edit: One more thing that I forgot about. This is in the tactics line. 3 seconds of protection and regen become 3.3sec thanks to the max 30% boon duration (more with either food and maybe some runes)

Tactical Renewal
25: Heals the warrior and cures a condition on weapon swap.
Healing: 1,892 (1.0) (10 second cool-down.)

Self Explanatory, this would be unique to the Warrior.

Disregarding that’s pretty much what happens when an ele (with 1 or 2 minor traits) switches to water (only this gives a crap ton more healing). Don’t forget, this would also give 1sec of regen and protection because of your previous trait (and it’d be boosted by your adapt trait), so it’d really be healing 1,892 (1.0)+15% hp. And to agree with a person above me, people grab the weapon swap trait, so they can do exactly that, swap weapons as fast as they can. (I’m sure plenty of warriors use one weapon for mobility, then swap as soon as they get in close for damage, then can swap back and either move away, catch them again, what-have-you while things are on cd). If people didn’t rely on it so much, there wouldn’t have been so many posts about how buggy the trait was (not saying that it shouldn’t be fixed [if it hasn’t yet], but I’m sure a lot of people rely on that unpredictableness in PvP to be able help damage their opponents.)

And yeah, 2k+ doesn’t sound like a lot, a zerker person can do more than that in 2 auto attacks, but for someone who isn’t in all zerker gear 2k is quite a lot.

2k every 10 sec (and condition cured) compared to
1192+0.8*healingpower / shout (to party)
130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) / sec of banner 3sec regen

Like others said, why are you making a minor trait heal for more than a grandmaster. In their respective lines both the …

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

More often than I like to
3 is basically the standard amount of condition removed by charge.
4 is quite common.

Well maybe they shouldn’t spam all their conditions on you mindlessly then!

As a Necro I usually use them separately, because I know warriors can do that.

Spam their conditions mindlessly? What about the fact that plenty of weapons just apply conditions as part of their auto attack. There are condition based builds, plenty of them. Or other attacks that other classes get that give them more damage based on the number of conditions that their target has. Or if you have more than 1 person attacking you at a time.

Are warriors, perfect? No, not by any means. Did we get better with the last major patch, I’d say so. Despite plenty of people being angry over losing their 20/x/x/x/20 builds its good we have a way to deal with conditions (I wouldn’t complain though if cleansing ire was reworked to automatically spend your adrenaline whenever you use your burst, this way even non-1hsword/bow burst skills get hit with blind, they can still cure other conditions), it would be nice to have more, and I see that’s what you are trying to do. But, you need to be somewhat reasonable with your suggestions.

Also, if I had to add suggestions to for the minor tactics traits, I’d say buff the current ones such as.

Determined Revival —> 1 sec of protection while reviving an ally/1 sec
Or maybe +5 toughness/lvl and 1sec of retaliation while reviving an ally/1sec

Fast Healer —> +10% revive speed (if that needs a boost, because I think it’s not that bad as it is, I’d suggest only one of the following):
Either +10% revive speed (also applied when others revive you)
+10% revive speed and ally revives with an extra +10% ?(maybe 25%?) hp
+10% revive speed, you and ally revived (or maybe all nearby allies) receive 3sec of regen upon reviving someone (10sec cd).

Reviver’s Might: Eh, I don’t have any decent suggestions for this one. It’s kinda lackluster, maybe just increase the might stack, or maybe..
1 might stack for 12 sec, vigor for 6 seconds on revive to nearby allies. shrug or maybe…
1 might stack for 12 sec for nearby allies, gain 10 strikes of adrenaline on revival

Are my above suggestions great, most likely not, I spent maybe 10 seconds thinking about each. It does seem that the tactics line has our weakest minor traits, though. But if they are reworked it should be about helping the party/being support. Look at what most of the tactics line is, it’s party support. All of your suggestions would remove any small party interaction that those minor traits have, and replace it with self-sustain. The minor traits should be a reflection of what that trait line is used for (or give a small buff to it’s exact opposite so by concentrating in one area we still get a bit of the other; see Armored Attack and Attack of Opportunity), not manipulate them to make a popular build even stronger.

Daecollo thread = some trait with protection

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

More often than I like to
3 is basically the standard amount of condition removed by charge.
4 is quite common.

LOL no.

If you seriously believe that, you shouldn’t even bother with condition removal because you’re clearly being hit with nearly all conditions every second or two.

15 slot.

Tactical advantage
Burst skills ignore blind and weakness

Yaki.9563:

Varonth.5830:

Daecollo.9578:

Varonth.5830:

Traited Charge removes:

• Crippled
• Chilled
• Immobilize

On top of those three (after those got removed) it will convert another condition.
Due to tactic providing additional boon duration I would come to 1.25s of protection.
Since I remove up to 4 conditions, it would result in up to 5s of protection.

The problem is, how many times are you ever with all 3 on ya? That is very situational situation. I usually have 1 or two, not all three. If you saved it for when you got all three of them and used it, shouldn’t you be rewarded for the opportunity cost?

More often than I like to
3 is basically the standard amount of condition removed by charge.
4 is quite common.

LOL no.

If you seriously believe that, you shouldn’t even bother with condition removal because you’re clearly being hit with nearly all conditions every second or two.

Yep.

Minor tactics traits really need work.

Cygnus.6903:

Minor tactics traits really need work.

I agree.

I still think Tactics needs a revamp.

Please don’t necro threads

KarlusDavius.1024:

Please don’t necro threads

Would you rather me make a new topic?