Guild Wars 2

Yes, it’s this thread again, but only because no one has improved warrior downed state yet.

Our downed state is atrocious.

1) Rock is w/e

2) Hammer toss is awful. It’s a single target knockdown that can be affected by blind, missed if the target stealths, countered by stability, or countered by more than one person stomping, regardless of if they use stealth, blind or stability. This is in direct contrast to other classes that have stomp immunity (Thief, ele, mesmer) to these situations with their #2 ability or partial protection (such as the guardian’s AOE knockback).

3) Vengeance is bad. Maybe once in every 10 downstates or less you actually get to use it since at least one of the conditions listed above are usually true when you are downed. When you do get to use it, the only objective for the enemy is to kite the warrior until death, which is not hard to do unless they have no HP and are out of stunbreakers and have somehow forgotten how to use their stuns, cripples, immobilizes, chills, dazes, teleports, dashes, blinds etc. Then, if you don’t have it traited (and no one traits it since the trait is in a bloated skill tree anyway) you have to get lucky in order to survive killing your opponent. In about 1500 hours of playing on my warrior I can probably count on two hands the number of times vengeance has made a difference in an actual fight against another player. And probably count on one hand the number of times I have gotten lucky and survived said encounter after killing them.

Proposed changes:

1) If you are going to leave our #2 ability to be as awful as it is, the least you can do is get rid of Sweet Revenge and include it as an automatic passive of the #3 ability, meaning you get to survive if you can manage to kill someone after somehow avoiding their stomp and then somehow killing them with vengeance.

2) If you are going to leave vengeance as awful and unreliable as it is, then (at least) give us some kind of AOE interrupt that can’t be affected by stealth or blind to bring our #2 ability into line with others.

vengence is a chance to res which is quite powerful in the team fight

really, all anet needs to do is make hammer toss 1/2 sec cast then warrior downstatew isnt so terrible

Vengeance should return us back to downed state when time expires, and rally when we kill someone, cd dropped a bit to have at least chance to use that. Sweet vengeance alone is a joke.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Vengeance should return us back to downed state when time expires, and rally when we kill someone, cd dropped a bit to have at least chance to use that. Sweet vengeance alone is a joke.

Part 1: vs Vengeance

As a war, I’ve been singling out other wars in hotjoin and wvw. Then, I down them, and tool around for a few seconds (auto instead of stomp) to LET them vengeance.

Over the past week, NONE of the vengeance’d warriors have been able to kill me and rally themselves (I’m assuming they all have sweet vengeance, which turned out to be a futile assumption).

Half, I’ve simply kited, dodged, and avoided till they dropped dead, barely taking any damage in the process. About a quarter I’ve outright killed again. The remaining quarter were actually able to pressure me and get me low before they dropped, with a few rare ones actually able to down me.

But not a single one was able to finish me off in time, and when they drop dead from veng running out, I rally back up and can waltz off.

Part 2: Getting Revenge!

Reversing things, I’ve made an effort to get myself downed in situations where I believe I can vengeance more often than not, IE knocked down outside of melee, making sure they dont have stability/mist/shrink available, etc.

The vast majority of the time, I was able to down my opponent but was unable to finish them off.
Vengeance vs Guardians/Eles: Most switched to defensive play, invul/block/heals/dodges, and just waited for me to run outta gas. When I did get a Guard down, I could stability stomp him.

Vengeance vs Eles: Same as guard, but worse. I was never able to successfully rally off of an ele, due to mistforming while they’re downed.

Vengeance vs Thieves: Many would simply vanish, never to be seen again during my short lifespan (or half a mile away by the time they unstealth). The bad ones who stuck around, would get downed, but can simply stealth, and shadow step. I was never able to successfully rally off of a thief.

Vengeance vs Mesmers: Ugh. Clones, invis, dazes, knockbacks, moa. Even when downed, they were worse than thieves. I was never able to successfully rally off of a mes.

Vengeance vs Warriors: How ironic, that warriors were the easiest class for me to rally off of. Most warriors were still badly hurt from the battle with me, and since I’d forced them to burn their stability, a little distance + hammer could delay their stomp long enough to vengeance every single time. On top of that, I had the best success rate at downing them, and about 90% finishing them off if I downed them, even without stability of my own, IE meleespike/takehammer/respike just in time, or fake spike/dodgerollhammer/respike.

Vengeance vs Engis: Since most engies keep me at arms length, the trouble was DPSing them in time, not getting vengeance off. Most would turn and leg it, or cripple/net/glue, or rocket boots, shrink, etc. The few I were able to get down I had minimal difficulty spiking however, just watch for the bomb, but getting them down in the first place was nearly impossible.

Vengeance vs Ranger: Rangers like engis, would mostly keep me at arms length. Downed rangers were also easy to spike but it was extremely difficult to close the gap, down them, and spike in time. Most auto-rallied when I dropped dead less than a second after downing them, or some even mid-spike.

PS: Why do we throw rocks, and not axes, or some other kind of throwing weapon?!

Scoobaniec.9561:

Vengeance should return us back to downed state when time expires, and rally when we kill someone, cd dropped a bit to have at least chance to use that. Sweet vengeance alone is a joke.

While i like this idea it would make sweet vengeance feel a little useless. Maybe the trait could give us some boons or a stance while we have vengeance active.

About the second skill hammer throw my idea would be changing it to a kick sort of skill launching foes a short distance in a cone area around where the warrior is facing.

if they give you the guaranteed revive if you kill someone and get rid of sweet vengeance trait I think it would have to be a WvW/PvE/sPvP split. If I knew I was going to die I’m running to mobs for the kill all day and auto rally. I mean you are invuln for a few sec’s when you activate it..

Dan.4398:

Scoobaniec.9561:

Vengeance should return us back to downed state when time expires, and rally when we kill someone, cd dropped a bit to have at least chance to use that. Sweet vengeance alone is a joke.

While i like this idea it would make sweet vengeance feel a little useless. Maybe the trait could give us some boons or a stance while we have vengeance active.

About the second skill hammer throw my idea would be changing it to a kick sort of skill launching foes a short distance in a cone area around where the warrior is facing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Traits-What-baseline-merged-and-deleted/first#post2443199

This trait should be removed, and build baseline.

oZii.2864:

if they give you the guaranteed revive if you kill someone and get rid of sweet vengeance trait I think it would have to be a WvW/PvE/sPvP split. If I knew I was going to die I’m running to mobs for the kill all day and auto rally. I mean you are invuln for a few sec’s when you activate it..

And how many times u have a chance to activate it in first place? And hows different it is from lets say any other class that rally off mob in downed state?

While i do feel that getting the time needed to activate the skill does seem far too long (So many times killed with vengeance needing 0.3 seconds more) it does give you access to all the skills and weapons you had before so its alot easier to rally at that point than any other class.

I would remove the rally chance from Vengeance and make it available much faster. In essence, it would be your “kitten it, I’m going to die anyway” ability and would live well up to its name.

I’d love for them to refresh/increase the duration each time you strike an enemy.

To mean that, as long as you stay in the fight and don’t go down again then you can fight for longer.

If they kite away and prevent you from hitting them, you die faster.

Idea: Warriors don’t get a downstate. Any player downed by a warriors crit dies instantly.

Problem fixed…

Our downstate is terrible and is one of the most frustrating things about warrior.