Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

Good points, but the reason we sometimes adjust the “unplayed” specs is to provide build diversity. Banners are one of those specs that we’re trying to adjust slowly to provide a whole new build for Warriors. This doesn’t mean we don’t care about other specs, we’re just trying to do things slowly.

And yes, Ranger spirits are in the same boat as Warrior banners. They were VERY powerful before ship, but after changes, they are on the lower end of the power curve right now. So they’ll be slowly adjusted over time to bring them back up as well.

The issue as I see it is this; why would you spend resources trying to do these kinds of things prior to fixing problems current builds have? I mean i understand that making other builds viable is important so not everyone is cookie cutter but can you really afford to risk the ire of the many and I mean many players who’ve waited for their builds to be fixed?
I don’t PvP much but i will tell you that all hope we had of bringing back many guild members who play warriors died and quite possibly for good with this patch, and for what…so you could make banners a possible useful build? I don’t want you to take this the wrong way but your priorities could well need to be re-adjusted because making potential customers happy doesn’t hold a candle to keeping your current ones playing. That’s all I have to say on this whole debacle.

Vicarious.3047:

Aomine, your essay of a post is what’s hilarious.

No, I’m not happy warriors are now not viable at all in tPvP, but at least 80% of what you’re complaining about is not only false but can be explained away with common sense.

Take a chill pill and think it through next time, they might pay attention if you do.

If you can’t “elaborate” your common sense, and point what so faulty about my post by giving examples, experiences, or even statistical calculation to prove me wrong,
(ex. what’s “fine” about spirits? what’s “fine” about rtl in spirit watch?)

then you’re more of a joke.

As a warrior we just ask for versatility. We see a light armor wearing class bounce around between players inside of a zerg from a down state that is well below other classes. Only to watch them turn into mist and escape heal up and wait for cool downs on their 20 skills and come back in for another go to finish everyone off.

After that is addressed could we be made sexier, make 1hs/1hs awesome to play, give it passive skill interruption. At the moment make me feel like a slow moving kitten Give us some sweet looking animations. Anything an ele does particles are going everywhere, whereas we have to rely on legendary and high end exotics to get anything going.

I know this isn’t going to happen, but say it anyway, seperate pve and pvp.

Vicarious.3047:

Aomine, your essay of a post is what’s hilarious.

No, I’m not happy warriors are now not viable at all in tPvP, but at least 80% of what you’re complaining about is not only false but can be explained away with common sense.

Take a chill pill and think it through next time, they might pay attention if you do.

-Then explain it. I’m actually curious to hear this "common sense’ that explains all the problems with both rangers and warriors and how patches continually neglect classes but slightly buff them without making them useful in the slightest.

Please, do explain.

Redscope.6215:

Regardless, it is there. I’m not questioning how good/bad/useful these skills are, I’m providing you with a reason as to why the spirit weapon is destructable and the banner is not. If you want to change the subject to usefulness of skills, we can go there instead.

Again, their active abilities usefulness was not in question. The fact that it exists is what I’m comparing to the banner’s indestructability. If you want to compare usefulness, how useful is immobilizing and crippling a warrior closing the distance on you vs. an extra 170 power and 170 condition damage within a limited 600 radius? How important is it that a melee class must leave you to focus a summoned creature down in order to not be hampered by it? Do you even notice that being able to be attacked means a spirit can body block for you as you escape attacks? That question even eludes mesmers as they don’t seem to consider their clones as a miniature aegis against single-target attacks.

All of these things must be considered when balancing summons.

The ability to pick up and move banners is as much a benefit as it is a curse. Tell me you’d rather have a moveable spirit with no active ability on a 120 second cooldown that can be moved at the cost of your weapon skills’ readiness; then you would be asking for a banner.

Spirits and spirit weapons have full uptime too, its just not guaranteed. They certainly can last for as long as they’re supposed to.

Bingo, you’ve hit the nail on the head. They have to be targeted. You have to actively use time, concentration, and skills on them in order to bring them down.

I would not consider a >1/3 of all hits proccing 3 base seconds of protection inferior to any banner. In fact, when traited in Nature Magic, one of the Ranger’s most potent lines, you can nearly perma-protect if that spirit is up. That’s all the more reason to let it be kill-able don’t you think? Well maybe not, but most people would.

Rangers can already perma-regen from Nature Magic. Perma-protect on top of that, add 1200 range, and a pet that melts faces off with a near infinite range and you’ve got an extremely powerful build.

You absolutely can counter banner benefits. Simply move outside of the radius. The warrior has to get to you, you’ve got superior range. How is it that ranged players always forget about their distance advantage?

As for cleaves: if you’re standing next to your spirits fighting a melee as a ranger, you’re not doing it right. If you’re fighting a warrior in a banner’s buff circle, you’re not doing it right.

Which are so very useful when fighting other players. They’re almost OP. In fact, I specifically call a banner, pick it up, and spam ‘1’ with it because its just so powerful. Please…

It doesn’t seem like you understand spirits. Their procs have a 10 second ICD. So you can only have a 35% base chance to proc a 3 second protection with a 10 second cooldown between procs. Basically, what an ele does by switching to earth attunement with a trait, except he gets even more boons when switching other attunements and his boon proc is guaranteed.

I’d rather have the permanent boons and indestructible spirit, thank you very much. The activated ability is centered on the spirit, which you can’t be near to if you want it to live more than 3 seconds. No, it doesn’t take focus; there’s this thing called cleaving. You know, when that elementalist uses burning speed and circle of flame, or the mesmer shatters or uses berserker phantasm, your spirit dies while you’re eating a chokful of damage yourself. Melee strikes like the warrior also hit the spirit, since they cleave. You know, which it will if you want to activate its effect for it to hit the opponent. I also think you don’t understand that the activated ability is about 2 seconds worth of animation, in which most of the time the targets are out of the area of effect if they’re moving.

And if you’re going to use traits to prop spirits, you can also use traits to extend banner range to 900.

BTW, good luck finding a use for Storm spirit with a swiftness proc or Sun Spirit for a 1 sec burning proc.

And please don’t be dense when I mentioned specifically boons as the activated skills part of utility use. You’re not meant to spam 1. You’re meant to pick them up in between engagements and begin engagements by using the abilities that grant group boons and plant them down.

I can’t believe you’re saying pets melt faces at 1200 range. The pets stop in place in between animations, and actually making them hit a moving target is one of the biggest complaints by rangers. Just because rangers can debunker you when you have to stand on a point instead of freely moving around does not mean the pet is powerful.

Vicarious.3047:

Zenith.7301:

Even at 2.1k toughness if my ranger ate a full 100b, he was reduced to around 10% HP left.

100b is ridiculously strong if it lands.

It just needs about a 40% damage nerf, shorter channel, and be made mobile in return. When it’s the only single ability that can land 28k figures on berserker gear (in cof there’s even a video of it doing 42k).

How much heal did you have? 10K!?

With that much toughness a FULL GLASS CANON 100B warrior will not do above 14K damage in sPvP (which is where the concern for the builds is most prominent), the end.

Also you seriously can’t be using PvE crit numbers to try and support an argument for PvP, it’s absolutely and completely pointless to do so.

With a shaman amulet my ranger sits at 16k HP. Not everyone is a necromancer or warrior. If you don’t grab an amulet with vitality or spec heavily into the vitality line 15-17k is the average for most builds.

The ability does absurd damage. Yet, even at the 3.5 sec unhasted channel time, you can just have the guardian in your team chain someone to give you plenty of time to channel it.

You simply cannot balance the ability’s current damage with landing it reliably. The current mechanic is that if you do land 100b+whirling attack, it’s either a kill shot or leaving someone with a couple thousand hp to be finished down. Very easy to dodge 1v1, not so much when you have a group pinning people down for you.

The only reason you don’t see it is because both elementalist and mesmers have invulnerabilities and teleports that can even get them out of roots or negate the damage of 100b when you do land it. And they currently dominate the scene.

Having the skill be more mobile and reducing its damage to allow more consistent use would address the problem of these kinds of professions who have invulnerabilities, so they can’t negate the big chunk of your damage and instead you lose just a part of it but can punish them later on.

Y are u guys discussing class that are way too OP lmao!

Thx for the replies Jon, it at least gives us some hope that you guys are looking into our class.

Been a mmorpg player since 99 & I just don’t want to see Warrior suffering from the same syndrome that Pallies in WOW suffered (sorry for mentioning another game).

Retribution Paladins in WOW had a complete change for the worse at launch and were stuck for 2 years without a specific role or direction, it was a long pain for players.

Warriors in GW2 need to be more on par with the other tank class in terms of survivability.

The Guardian has extra utility slots, we got a almost useless Burst damage skill up there. A constant banner there would help a LOT (changeable).

Also would help the ability to block (parry) while using a GS. We are Warriors, not a circus panda rolling everywhere to try and evade any incoming attack, after all, any class can evade, what’s so unique with the Warrior that his strongest defensive ability is common with every other class???

A chance to block should be added to one skill of ours.

Also regarding 100 blades, remove the root on the Warrior since we take 50% of damage penalty or remove the penalty altogether while rooted.

The GS tree should offer means of offense with a little of defense (blocking) that or give us Protection.

One thing is sure, Banners need 1 constant banner up, the way they work now are unusable in sPVP fights. It wouldn’t be overpowered and would give the Warrior more options to choose from.

Okay, thank you for posting in this thread to alleviate all the fears most warrior players have regarding the dev’s opinion on them and the future. However I do need to point out that:

JonathanSharp.7094:

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to throw knee-jerk/reactive changes based on any piece of feedback we receive. As we’ve said NUMEROUS times, we’re doing slow tweaks so that we don’t have to do whack-a-mole balance.

Just because things don’t happen “in a few days” doesn’t mean they’re not happening!

>Brawn kneejerk reaction nerf since beta to be 3% from 30%, making it utterly useless
>Eviscerate kneejerk reaction nerf to be barely more powerful than a triple chop with 300 range

Mostly I am extremely mad about brawn, which rightfully SHOULD be a key stat specially for warrior. (see: Intelligence for Elementalists)

Every other class benefits immensely from their class-specific stat, why is warrior the only one whose stat does absolutely nothing ~7months into the game?

Not to mention how “Burst damage increase” doesn’t even do anything for 6/9 warrior burst skills since the only burst skills which point is to do damage are Kill Shot, Eviscerate, and Forceful Shot.

And before some PvE warrior says “b-but the crit damage increase in the trait line is already so good!” No. Let’s look at what the other classes get together with their 30% crit damage taking that they invested 30 points into their line:

Elementalists, Ranger and Thief: 300 Precision
Guardian: 300 Toughness
Necromancer: 30% Death Shroud HP
Engineer: -30% on Toolbelt Skill Recharge
Mesmer -30% on Shatter Recharge

and finally we have Warrior:

Warrior: +3% Burst Damage Increase.

Aomine.5012:

If you can’t “elaborate” your common sense, and point what so faulty about my post by giving examples, experiences, or even statistical calculation to prove me wrong,
(ex. what’s “fine” about spirits? what’s “fine” about rtl in spirit watch?)

then you’re more of a joke.

You’re asking me to waste my time elaborating on something you yourself didn’t elaborate on? You whined and groaned about several issues (and I’m not denying that they are issues Empiren) but then blew them all out of proportion to try and make a point.

So again I’m not gonna explain in any great detail why your absurd “examples” are just that, absurd. At least not until you decide to come back to planet earth and rationally explain what your concerns are without trying to make a scene……

Zenith.7301:

Having the skill be more mobile and reducing its damage to allow more consistent use would address the problem of these kinds of professions who have invulnerabilities, so they can’t negate the big chunk of your damage and instead you lose just a part of it but can punish them later on.

I’ve been saying they need to do that since the first BETA!!!! So I’m totally on your side with that one lol

But what I was trying to get across was that with a tanky build that skill would not take you to 10% health, it just won’t happen, it’s strong but not tank breaking strong.

I wasn’t trying to say it wasn’t powerful though, there’s a reason I always argue it WAS the only viable warrior tPvP build lol

chuckle at the ranger whine in a warrior thread seriously go f yourself losers

Who are the player experts? Can we thank them for the double stat boost on banners and the bunny hop on kick now?

How exactly do you let a change through doubling the stats on banners when you just said in this thread that you guys know warriors are too strong in pve and too weak in pvp?

Zenith.7301:

Vicarious.3047:

Zenith.7301:

Even at 2.1k toughness if my ranger ate a full 100b, he was reduced to around 10% HP left.

100b is ridiculously strong if it lands.

It just needs about a 40% damage nerf, shorter channel, and be made mobile in return. When it’s the only single ability that can land 28k figures on berserker gear (in cof there’s even a video of it doing 42k).

How much heal did you have? 10K!?

With that much toughness a FULL GLASS CANON 100B warrior will not do above 14K damage in sPvP (which is where the concern for the builds is most prominent), the end.

Also you seriously can’t be using PvE crit numbers to try and support an argument for PvP, it’s absolutely and completely pointless to do so.

With a shaman amulet my ranger sits at 16k HP. Not everyone is a necromancer or warrior. If you don’t grab an amulet with vitality or spec heavily into the vitality line 15-17k is the average for most builds.

The ability does absurd damage. Yet, even at the 3.5 sec unhasted channel time, you can just have the guardian in your team chain someone to give you plenty of time to channel it.

You simply cannot balance the ability’s current damage with landing it reliably. The current mechanic is that if you do land 100b+whirling attack, it’s either a kill shot or leaving someone with a couple thousand hp to be finished down. Very easy to dodge 1v1, not so much when you have a group pinning people down for you.

The only reason you don’t see it is because both elementalist and mesmers have invulnerabilities and teleports that can even get them out of roots or negate the damage of 100b when you do land it. And they currently dominate the scene.

Having the skill be more mobile and reducing its damage to allow more consistent use would address the problem of these kinds of professions who have invulnerabilities, so they can’t negate the big chunk of your damage and instead you lose just a part of it but can punish them later on.

Hundred blades does not go over 14k in spvp. That being said, I don’t think it does at all If i can recall.

If you built full burst, it still would only hit for a paltry amount 14k and need mutiple cooldowns blown to work.(just tested it)

If you have 2k toughness it deffinitely won’t do over 12k.
——————————-

I call bs, and you are a liar just trying to get it nerfed (by 40% HA! Right, because a stationary attack is so “OP”, its actually just slightly more than our auto).

Most likely he had might stacked and was full burst. Either way, that isn’t normal or consistent.
————————

There was never a problem of it not being mobile, the problem was that it needed other skills to do decent damage. Make it mobile and keep the damage or make it stationary and make it higher.

Vicarious.3047:

Aomine.5012:

If you can’t “elaborate” your common sense, and point what so faulty about my post by giving examples, experiences, or even statistical calculation to prove me wrong,
(ex. what’s “fine” about spirits? what’s “fine” about rtl in spirit watch?)

then you’re more of a joke.

You’re asking me to waste my time elaborating on something you yourself didn’t elaborate on? You whined and groaned about several issues (and I’m not denying that they are issues Empiren) but then blew them all out of proportion to try and make a point.

So again I’m not gonna explain in any great detail why your absurd “examples” are just that, absurd. At least not until you decide to come back to planet earth and rationally explain what your concerns are without trying to make a scene……

Zenith.7301:

Having the skill be more mobile and reducing its damage to allow more consistent use would address the problem of these kinds of professions who have invulnerabilities, so they can’t negate the big chunk of your damage and instead you lose just a part of it but can punish them later on.

I’ve been saying they need to do that since the first BETA!!!! So I’m totally on your side with that one lol

But what I was trying to get across was that with a tanky build that skill would not take you to 10% health, it just won’t happen, it’s strong but not tank breaking strong.

I wasn’t trying to say it wasn’t powerful though, there’s a reason I always argue it WAS the only viable warrior tPvP build lol

Not gonna waste time on the like of you anyway.
You can’t even sufficiently give examples/ descriptions about your objection of other people’s view to back up your points.

Thank you for elaborating that you’re merely a joke.
Next please.

ps: This post was originally posted in the Spvp forum, and got forcefully moved by the developters to this kitten warrior forum (probably still enjoying their PVE buff), we do not choose this forum, but we have every right to discuss other classes since this post does not belong here in the first place.

Let ur friend hit urself with hb for the whole duration..Heal up, now let him autoattack for 4seconds. Result? Ty , bye. Even if we will be able to move while using hb ppl still can ddodge out of it and we need to break it and catch em again. Best idea is to make hb burst skill+rooting ur target, just like flurry

When you guys took the time to respond to this thread, it was already in the Warrior forum. It doesn’t make much sense to expect much in-depth ranger discussion in the Warrior forum, does it?

I feel like I started this by bringing up Ranger spirits, but the only reason I said that was because I feel spending time an energy to improve banners, something most people feel are fine, when another class which has effectively the same exact mechanic can’t use theirs at all is a waste of time. If they wanted Warriors to realistically use banners, they should improve the Warrior to the point where they could realistically consider their use. The way things work right now, no one will ever use banners for anything more than a novelty — “HeHeHar lookit me regens!”.

Now as for the Rangers plight, I could talk at great length on that subject too as I feel this game has the worst representation of the ranger archetype I’ve ever seen. Even games that don’t have Rangers have implemented them better!

But you dying to 100b is on you. You claim the damage is too high, but you play a class with a legitimate and viable bunker option. That’s strike one against you. You play a class with high stamina regen, a move that breaks stun and gives you full regen, multiple disengages, multiple snares, roots, and dazes. Every single one of these things would have had to been on cooldown for you to legitimately have an excuse to dying to 100b.

Don’t want to play bunker? Don’t want to run full apothecary gear? Don’t feel you should need lightning reflexes and effectively the 5 dodges in a row it allows? That’s fine, but that’s an issue you have to bring up with Rangers on the Ranger forum with a pretty good excuse with why you’re attempting to PvP without a PvP build.

The reason this is an issue on the Warrior forum and you’re being mocked is because unlike Rangers and every class in the game, the Warrior doesn’t have a real spec to fall back on anymore. They don’t have a bunker option to choose.

This is the Warrior forum. This post has been on the Warrior forum since I first commented on it. If you have gripes or need assistance in avoiding 100b or specing your Ranger, you’re not going to get very far talking about it on the Warrior forum.

Banners are clunky. They don’t summon to hands or perform AI action immediately (adding another minimum of .25s to .5s to their summon cast time/remove the damage on summon of banners trait (Powerful Banners) if it’s the issue). They have slow and/or have relatively weak utility abilities compared to any other version of conjured weapon or replicate more efficient utilities already available to the Warrior class. Banners have extremely long cooldowns and unless you like picking things up and placing them back down over and over and over again, you are tied to the flagpole.

(Ranger) are just weak and do not have an offset of power for that weakness but the utilities have relatively low cooldowns. However, Spirits are the opposite of clunky. The utilities function (albeit weakly) without any other input. The internal cooldown/long spirit cast times basically makes the abilities provided only usable in very immobile circumstances.

They both suffer from a limited range issue unless traited. They both need help. But to say Banners are great now (even with the recent March patch changes) in anything but immobile PvE situations is quite frankly, absurd.

When players state that Banners didn’t need help, it also means that the changes to Banners were done without thought to all game play types. If a set type of utilities is reviewed, it needs to be reviewed for all game play types (not just specific areas like PvE without consideration for WvW and tPvP). [This goes for the Quickness boon issue as well.]

Aomine.5012:

Not gonna waste time on the like of you anyway.
You can’t even sufficiently give examples/ descriptions about your objection of other people’s view to back up your points.

Thank you for elaborating that you’re merely a joke.
Next please.

ps: This post was originally posted in the Spvp forum, and got forcefully moved by the developters to this kitten warrior forum (probably still enjoying their PVE buff), we do not choose this forum, but we have every right to discuss other classes since this post does not belong here in the first place.

You’re being a hypocrite, I can’t offer any counter arguments cause you didn’t offer any to begin with. You simply raged and offered up random and over exaggerated numbers and situations, how can I argue against that with any more then “that’s an over exaggeration?” Which I did.

“Next please” is a comment used by people who think they managed to make a point, you sir have yet to do that, and frankly there is no line.

p.s. But now it’s in the warriors forums and is about what you might ask? Warriors. The majority of the comments on this thread are from after it was moved, so by now it has officially become a warrior thread in the warrior forums. Your excuse is invalid.

Unless you’re going to revolutionize banners so that they dance around on their own and smash people over the head why don’t you take that creativity and adjust some of the lesser traits or fix Brawn or learn the games Meta or not make knee jerk nerfs.

Atherakhia.4086:

When you guys took the time to respond to this thread, it was already in the Warrior forum. It doesn’t make much sense to expect much in-depth ranger discussion in the Warrior forum, does it?

I feel like I started this by bringing up Ranger spirits, but the only reason I said that was because I feel spending time an energy to improve banners, something most people feel are fine, when another class which has effectively the same exact mechanic can’t use theirs at all is a waste of time. If they wanted Warriors to realistically use banners, they should improve the Warrior to the point where they could realistically consider their use. The way things work right now, no one will ever use banners for anything more than a novelty — “HeHeHar lookit me regens!”.

Now as for the Rangers plight, I could talk at great length on that subject too as I feel this game has the worst representation of the ranger archetype I’ve ever seen. Even games that don’t have Rangers have implemented them better!

But you dying to 100b is on you. You claim the damage is too high, but you play a class with a legitimate and viable bunker option. That’s strike one against you. You play a class with high stamina regen, a move that breaks stun and gives you full regen, multiple disengages, multiple snares, roots, and dazes. Every single one of these things would have had to been on cooldown for you to legitimately have an excuse to dying to 100b.

Don’t want to play bunker? Don’t want to run full apothecary gear? Don’t feel you should need lightning reflexes and effectively the 5 dodges in a row it allows? That’s fine, but that’s an issue you have to bring up with Rangers on the Ranger forum with a pretty good excuse with why you’re attempting to PvP without a PvP build.

The reason this is an issue on the Warrior forum and you’re being mocked is because unlike Rangers and every class in the game, the Warrior doesn’t have a real spec to fall back on anymore. They don’t have a bunker option to choose.

This is the Warrior forum. This post has been on the Warrior forum since I first commented on it. If you have gripes or need assistance in avoiding 100b or specing your Ranger, you’re not going to get very far talking about it on the Warrior forum.

LOL. Banners are used in cof speed runs and even in most dungeons and WvW. The benefits are substantial, just that other utilities are better for spvp.

You don’t get 5 dodges in a row with vigor up. Lightning Reflexes doesn’t do anything against immobilize, and most rangers only get condi removal via a trait every 10 seconds, so the warrior/allies can bait that passive condi removal and then apply the root. And then you eat a full HB.

The warrior cannot land a 100b alone on someone most of the time, but with allies, especially a scepter guardian or a fellow ranger around with roots, it’s VERY easy to land HB. And even when you don’t whirling attack does a chunk of damage as well.

Frenzy>100b did more than a single backstab crit, and does even more than a backstab+mug. The thief only beats the warrior in burst because he can spam HS after and his mug+backstab is much easier to land by himself while the warrior needs help landing his burst.

When a warrior is ON his target, NO OTHER CLASS outdamages him. I think that’s the error of their design, that they made a warrior an absolute beast in melee range damage, but he misses sustained mobility so that he can’t have uptime on his target or else things melt. It’s very bipolar.

Now is not the time to get jaded. My hope is the buff we receive will be more than the nerf we ate. Lets have a little faith in the team. I personally look forward to being able to smash DD ele more even though play DD ele.

JonathanSharp.7094:

-Words aren’t enough: Agreed. In the coming patches we have plans to give the Warrior: more resistance to movement hindering condies, the ability to punish boons, and we want to improve some of their specs that are out-shined by 100 b’s.

Mr. Sharp, could you also please consider the possibilty to use the adrenaline mechanic of the warrior to remove conditions passively ? Maybe you could coupled it with our F1 ability. Stage 1 removes 1 condition, Stage 2 removes 2 Conditions, stage 3 removes 3 conditions.

Regards Seed

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re going to be working on a lot of Warrior stuff in the coming patches. But will we be changing things, in the OP’s words, “in a few days”? Nope. We have to wait for patches to move through the system of developing content, refining it, iterating on it, getting it tested, and then getting pushed to live.

Warriors are very strong in PvE, and they’re struggling in PvP – we know this. Contrary to popular belief, we play our game, in all formats, and we talk to player experts in all formats. We also read the forums.

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to throw knee-jerk/reactive changes based on any piece of feedback we receive. As we’ve said NUMEROUS times, we’re doing slow tweaks so that we don’t have to do whack-a-mole balance.

Just because things don’t happen “in a few days” doesn’t mean they’re not happening!

Hey. For now i like only play as a warrior because of his gameplay style. There’s so many ppl like me. And as you say, you ruined our main gameplay mechanics and the class itself for months only to see what’s happen. To get some statistics… Do you think thats normal?

Well, now you see clearly about warriors dead in pvp and need no more stats to prove. What about some temporary fixes? Like decreasing frenzy penalty to 25% or million possible decisions that are easy to deploy and cost nothing. Just playing with values. This is what i meant “in few days”. By the way, what about to do this things right now?

Your “methods” – to do things slooowly, get statistics blabla – totally bullkitten. Look at the most balanced cybersports games like Starcraft 2, League of Legends, etc etc… They have regular balance patches, hotfixes. Some test servers to experiment, “watch feedback” and to prevent stupid mistakes be on live ones. And your game with your unique super-ultra-methods-mark3 has no balance at all. Has some core features broken after your tweaks. No test servers. You said that you do some tests before apply. But you dont even know how pvp works. NO SIMPLY BUG FIXES. Only words and promises. Sometimes it seems like all of your class changes are pretty random and were maid in a day before its release date just to show ppl that you do something.

I love this game so much, I see its awesome pvp potential and it hurts very hard to know developers does not interested about that. Nothing personal to you, Jonh. I hope you prove me wrong.

Grammar aside, I do think Rommy’s right that there is some need for public test servers. A public tester server would be faster and more efficient data collection since it’s all as close to real world as you can get.

What Rommy said.

Been a lot of years since Dark Age of Camelot & GW2 has the potential to become a such a great PvP game both in terms of WWW or sPVP.

You guys seriously need a test server, read carefully players feedback and to be on the field.

Saying that you test things out only to injure a class completely is suspicious. I doubt there’s some testing at all.

And regarding other options, Banners continue not to be an option in sPVP, we need a constant banner effect, not a “grab and run” system.

A warrior fights with a weapon, not a banner. Might as well put a drum in our hands so we can play while others hack n slash eachother, no thank you.

Put banners in F2, F3 slots, Warriors lack in options when using a weapon & dodge and roll are not an excuse since everyone can use that.

Honestly the reasons Warriors use(d) frenzy+HB is to overcome the design flaw of HB.
You can’t possibly make a skill immobilize you and take 3.5 sec to channel on a melee class, it simply doesn’t work.
When players need to use 2 long-CD utilities just to make a skill work, it means the skill is not designed correctly.
Unless you want a class gameplay to revolve around one skill, which isn’t very good design either (remember pre-patch HS-spam thieves).

Just remove the last hit or two (which is 20%++ of HB’s dmg) and remove the self-rooting.

Can you tell us anything about the condies that hurt our movement abilities? I think a lot of us have suggested the mobile strikes removing chill and crippled as well. Is this something you’re going for? Or have you come up with something different?

Bluedarknesss.1685:

Lol I think this patch was the straw that broke the camels back and destroyed several viable class builds with out creating any thing new to replace them. Engi only 1 build thats even worth playing now and this patch was going to fix that class lol

When you say “fix”, you really mean “destroy completely” don’t you?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sorry I can’t respond to everyone, but I’ll try to hit some other issues you’ve brought up:

-Words aren’t enough: Agreed. In the coming patches we have plans to give the Warrior: more resistance to movement hindering condies, the ability to punish boons, and we want to improve some of their specs that are out-shined by 100 b’s.

-Responding overall: We read a ton of things on the forums, but as you can imagine, we can’t respond to them all. When time allows, like today, I try to get on the forums as much as I can with actual responses – not just reading.

-Banners: We’re playing with some other ideas on how to make them stronger/a unique play style, while also trying to make sure they don’t “step on the toes” of similar abilities for other classes, like Ranger spirits.

-“Soon” vs. actual ETA’s: This is a fine point, but the reason I don’t give actual dates is because things can sometimes slip past those dates. When this happens, players can feel like we were lying or we didn’t fulfill a “promise”. I know it sucks, but it’s just safer for us not to use dates or ETA’s until we’re REALLY close to a feature or change being ready.

Gonna go hit some of the other sub-forums, thanks for all the feedback guys!

WHA? WOW!! I peek my head in hear and see this many Dev responses and can’t believe my eyes :O Speaking of sub-forums —-——>Necro forum this way

JonathanSharp.7094:

Rising Dusk.2408:

their “immense strength” boils down to exactly 1 skill, Hundred Blades.

Agreed! 100 blades needs to be changed
As I’ve said, that’ll be happening in coming patches.

I think people REALLY overestimate the power of 100b. I did some calculations earlier to see just how powerful it is in relation to the GS auto attack.

100b has a total base damage of 4730 over the course of 3.5 seconds.
The GS auto attack chain has a total base damage of 1948 over 1.5 seconds.

Now since 3.5/1.5 = 2.33, you should be able to deal out 2.33 auto attack chains in the same time it takes to finish a 100b. Now, 1948(2.33) = about 4539. GS auto attacks should deal 4539 total base damage in the time it takes 100b to deal 4730. 4539/4730 = about 0.96 . This would mean that GS auto attack has 96% of 100b’s base damage while allowing you to move.

Now, I could be wrong and somebody check my calculations but doesnt seem like 100b is terribly OP :/

Kugron.5128:

Defektive.7283:

Thanks Jon, does that mean you’re giving banners another +20 stats?

lmao

In addittion we’ll probably see some buffs to our underwater skills.

Actually i wouldn’t mind a little tweak to my underwater abilities. Seems like other classes are pretty awesome in that realm.

Mikemad.2495:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Rising Dusk.2408:

their “immense strength” boils down to exactly 1 skill, Hundred Blades.

Agreed! 100 blades needs to be changed
As I’ve said, that’ll be happening in coming patches.

I think people REALLY overestimate the power of 100b. I did some calculations earlier to see just how powerful it is in relation to the GS auto attack.

100b has a total base damage of 4730 over the course of 3.5 seconds.
The GS auto attack chain has a total base damage of 1948 over 1.5 seconds.

Now since 3.5/1.5 = 2.33, you should be able to deal out 2.33 auto attack chains in the same time it takes to finish a 100b. Now, 1948(2.33) = about 4539. GS auto attacks should deal 4539 total base damage in the time it takes 100b to deal 4730. 4539/4730 = about 0.96 . This would mean that GS auto attack has 96% of 100b’s base damage while allowing you to move.

Now, I could be wrong and somebody check my calculations but doesnt seem like 100b is terribly OP :/

If you can land a FULL 100b it does some pretty decent damage, but the most difficult part is keeping someone still for the entire animation.

The only place that i find it really does well is in large fights where you can hit multiple targets at once, but then you are super deep in enemy territory and it can be hard to escape.

Mikemad.2495:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Rising Dusk.2408:

their “immense strength” boils down to exactly 1 skill, Hundred Blades.

Agreed! 100 blades needs to be changed
As I’ve said, that’ll be happening in coming patches.

I think people REALLY overestimate the power of 100b. I did some calculations earlier to see just how powerful it is in relation to the GS auto attack.

100b has a total base damage of 4730 over the course of 3.5 seconds.
The GS auto attack chain has a total base damage of 1948 over 1.5 seconds.

Now since 3.5/1.5 = 2.33, you should be able to deal out 2.33 auto attack chains in the same time it takes to finish a 100b. Now, 1948(2.33) = about 4539. GS auto attacks should deal 4539 total base damage in the time it takes 100b to deal 4730. 4539/4730 = about 0.96 . This would mean that GS auto attack has 96% of 100b’s base damage while allowing you to move.

Now, I could be wrong and somebody check my calculations but doesnt seem like 100b is terribly OP :/

Its not. People just don’t realize that warriors can do a lot of damage if the target ever just sits there.

People go “omg i just got downed by 100b!” and really if you were knockdown’ed that much or just sitting there for that long then ANY class could effectively down you. Its just that people are so anti-melee that if it ever happens its a big shock.
-Also people don’t realize but 100b is combo’d with whirlwind, making the damage higher than realized. Its kind of sad people complain about 100b when there is just as good burst to be found in most every other profession.

JonathanSharp.7094:

100 blades needs to be changed.

Unfortunately, it seems 100b is going to be nerfed regardless. If the nerf is more then like 10%, nobody will use 100b since auto attack would become a better damager.

People dont realize that any situation where they were killed by 100b, the warrior could have just spammed auto attacks and gotten the exact same result.

Mikemad.2495:

Now, I could be wrong and somebody check my calculations but doesnt seem like 100b is terribly OP :/

You are, indeed, wrong. The time it takes the execute the whole chain is actually longer than the listed activation times (somewhere around 2.5 for GS).

JonathanSharp.7094:

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to throw knee-jerk/reactive changes based on any piece of feedback we receive. As we’ve said NUMEROUS times, we’re doing slow tweaks so that we don’t have to do whack-a-mole balance.

I don’t play a warrior but…. Whaaaaaaaaaat?

To be fair, Just talking about warriors, I would probably qualify the overnerf to eviscerate from several angles (eviscerate, brawn, crit damage… granted it was overpowered, but it was a little overkill) and actually the quickness change in question as pretty knee jerk, since it was by HALF and completely removed a class from viable PvP play.

And there are probably ones I missed because I don’t look too closely at the warrior patch notes. Because frankly, I haven’t needed to, which shouldn’t be the case.

Mikemad.2495:

JonathanSharp.7094:

100 blades needs to be changed.

Unfortunately, it seems 100b is going to be nerfed regardless. If the nerf is more then like 10%, nobody will use 100b since auto attack would become a better damager.

People dont realize that any situation where they were killed by 100b, the warrior could have just spammed auto attacks and gotten the exact same result.

Changed doesn’t mean nerfed.
Say they removed the last hit and the self-root, and made it faster to channel, it would still be worth using instead of autoattacks.

If they changed 100b to us having the fiery greatsword permanently, I would be happy.

Please consider the following thoughts from a friend / competitive tPvPer who isn’t allowed to post on the forums anymore:

"

1) Dealing damage as a Warrior

DPSing in PvP requires you to INCAPACITATE your enemy. But because of the spammable dodge/evade frames/skills as well as the game allowing 3 stun breaks for utilities – trying to DPS as a Warrior(stun/immobilize/etc) is just plain unforgiving.

Take a Mesmer match-up for example. We go through all the work to get a shield bash or a skull crack, but then he can still DPS through my stuns with shatters and use Staff to stun break away indefinitely. Not to mention getting ANOTHER incapacitate becomes near impossible when staff gives Aegis, Protection, and clones can block Bolas. Mesmers can DPS while staying in a Warriors deadzone. I can say the same thing about Guards, Elementalists, Rangers and Thieves to be honest but lets face it, we’re at a distinct disadvantage.

DPSing in PvP as a Warrior is not a forgiving experience for new and competitive players alike. It would be great if incapacitating was easier or limiting the amount of stun breaks that a class could have to only one (This could effectively solve the “bunker problem” too).

2) F1 mechanic: ADRENALINE SCARCITY

Why do Warriors have to reach 3 bars of adrenaline to make use of the full effect? Adrenaline gain per attack is minimal unless traited for increased adrenaline gain. It makes some weapons and weapon sets unappealing because of how scarce adrenaline is. Sometimes in the middle of a fight we can only make use of a level 2 skull crack or eviscerate. The difference between a Level 2 and level 3 skull crack is a immense, yet the adrenaline gained is scarce. If the scarcity would just disappear then maybe more build diversity will come out.

Personally, I don’t mind losing out on Berserker’s Power from time to time in order to make the full effect of F1 skills more accessible. It isn’t fun knowing that we can’t make use of the full effect 100% of the time while other classes have access to their full effect F1s on a consistent basis.

3) Movement impairment.

As was said before, DPSing as a Warrior is unforgiving. When coupled with the sheer amount of slows and immobilizes it begs the question to look at the existing skills and traits and restructure them. Having one off, high cooldown immobilize removals (Lyssa, Restorative Strength for example), doesn’t provide the class with utility to escape situations or stick to a target. Making Restorative Strengh baseline or buffing traits such as Mobile Strikes more effective would go a long way to help solving this problem.

4) Traits

Why is leg specialist on 10 points in tactics? DPS Warrior lose out A LOT on those 10 points that could have been placed somewhere else. Warriors rely on INCAPACITATION to deal consistent damage. This brings to mind restructuring Leg Specialist to make it a more forgiving trait to pick up specifically for the DPS minded.

When you take into account such traits as 3% burst damage for 30 points in Discipline it really starts to show the cracks in Warrior builds. Redoing traits, moving traits around so they work well with a wider variety of builds is just the first step to fixing the Warrior. Adding on more damage dealt via Boon Hate or giving Banners +70 stats won’t help to solve any problems

Thank you for your time.

"

yea, adrenaline gain could be increased slightly against players atleast

bump to keep this thread flowing.

I know many suggestions from people involve something that requires new animations or something that requires more time to fix and resources. I think at least until a huge change somewhere there isn’t going to be major changes to classes like new animations or abilities and most changes will be in the frame work of damage/traits etc.

I know that 100bs was talked about and I think that if the root was removed it would help its the same animation as fiery greatsword from elementalists so I don’t see that being a hard change to implement at all and it still look cool.

I was also thinking that if they don’t go the route of protection or something like that for warriors how about a buff to the healing skills. I was thinking about surege for example but you would want to buff the others also some kind of way so that they are still appealing and it doesn’t become surge is the best and becomes the only choice for every build.

Right now with 30 pts in defense my surge at stage 3 heals for about 8.7k its a little more but cant remember exactly. What if it was bumped up to say a 12k heal at stage 3 since warriors are some what about stability as a boon we can get decently then denial of the heal would become more important, the heal would be even more vital to sustain so you would be more inclined to have stability or stall to get your heal off.

The other levels get a bump to their heal and so does mending and healing sig gets a buff also. I was just thinking that if they don’t want warriors to get protection as a boon that a buff to the heal would help alot so you get in do your damage etc. Get your heal off have more than half of your health refilled even if you didnt spec deep into healing power and can dps some more. Just a thought

I’d normally steer clear of long balance threads but this seems like a crucial crossroads for warrior design.

mbh.8301:

I guess they could reduce the damage taken from frenzy and make 100b cast a little faster on its own.

While reducing the debuff to 25% makes sense, in terms decreasing hundred blade cast time I’m going to have to disagree with you on that one mbh. The frenzy patch was significant because it really brought down low-end gameplay with the warrior (bull rush frenzy 100db), as well as further reducing viability at high end.

Frenzy blading alone isn’t much of a strategy at higher levels of pvp for a GS warrior, there are certainly times when it’s necessary, but for instance it would often not be appropriate in a direct 2v2, and seldom ever in a 1v1.

This fix to hundred blades you are suggesting simply won’t help. It will further instil an overtly restrictive and predictable play style to the GS war, while other weapons will remain permanently underpowered by the patch.

I don’t think enough thought was put into warrior’s core mechanic. Pretty much every burst skill has the exact same parameters: More adrenaline = more power. Why should that be the case? Isn’t there some more interesting concepts we can use for it? Consider some of these:

Eviscerate – Same damage across all levels of adrenaline. Reduces cooldown based on adrenaline level. So basically if the total cooldown is 10, each stage of adrenaline reduces it by three. (Note that this takes effect WHEN the ability goes into cooldown. You’re not speeding the cooldown up by gaining adrenaline after the fact, you’re causing the the Stage 3 Eviscerate to put the ability on a 4 second cooldown as opposed to 10). This would create scenarios where the player could think “If I wanted to deal consistent damage, I trait for increased adrenaline gain (axes already have traits for that) so that I can do an eviscerate every 4 seconds. Or if I want to do a quick burst, I do a maxed eviscerate, then immediately eviscerate again as soon as I hit one stage of adrenaline.” That allows for higher burst, but then puts the skill on a long cooldown. Obviously those exact values are pretty crazy, and it’d probably be best to increase the base cooldown of the skill in order to make the whole cooldown reduction thing feel more useful.

Kill Shot – Greatly reduce the charge time and damage, so maybe you only need to stay still for a quarter of a second. The skill doesn’t improve based on adrenaline, but instead only ever uses 1 bar of adrenaline, and has no cooldown. So basically, if you have 3 bars of adrenaline, then you can chain off 3 kill shots back to back. Again, actual numbers would have to change to compensate, this is just from a mechanics standpoint.

Other weapons, like the Hammer and Mace, make a lot more sense to have a direct increase to power/effect. Greatsword’s burst really just needs to change. As do the two traits based around adranline, Berserker’s Power and Heightened Focus. I don’t think a build/playstyle that causes you to not make use of your class’s mechanic is a good idea. Why not switch those traits to apply those boosts when you use a burst skill? So Berserker’s Power applies a 7% damage boost for say… 10 seconds when you use a burst skill at 2 stages of adrenaline. The boosts would only stack in duration, with the higher damage version replacing the lower one if it gets applied. I would not make these actual boons, so the enemy couldn’t actually remove the effect (this would keep them in line with their current power), though it might help to have some sort of indication as to what your damage increase is at (if I’m not mistaken they’ve started doing this with some of the non-swiftness movement speed buffs).

I dont agree that there is a problem with Berserkers Power and Heightened focus I believe I even understand why they have those traits and I am newish to warrior and never rolled tanky. They are there to give those that aren’t speccing hard into Zerker/DPS and allow them to still dish out decent damage.

So you could invest in only 38% crit chance but at level 3 adrenaline you really have 50% crit chance same thing applies for berserkers power. To me those traits actually make sense and they aren’t deep into any of those tree so it allows flexibility. I don’t know of another class that can run all knights gear and get a better return on investement damage wise than a warrior thats what those traits let you do.

oZii.2864:

I dont agree that there is a problem with Berserkers Power and Heightened focus I believe I even understand why they have those traits and I am newish to warrior and never rolled tanky. They are there to give those that aren’t speccing hard into Zerker/DPS and allow them to still dish out decent damage.

So you could invest in only 38% crit chance but at level 3 adrenaline you really have 50% crit chance same thing applies for berserkers power. To me those traits actually make sense and they aren’t deep into any of those tree so it allows flexibility. I don’t know of another class that can run all knights gear and get a better return on investement damage wise than a warrior thats what those traits let you do.

Adrenaline isn’t an issue for full dps if you learn to use healing surge both 25 seconds before, and then mid way through a fight. Sometimes you may have to overheal in order to finish a player, but a lot of it is just practising chaining your heal with a burst attack.

I run with heightened focus and berserkers power, and I’ll never hesitate to eviscerate if the moments right. Don’t forget these traits actually apply to the eviscerate itself too.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power

Here is my two cents.

I play a hammer bunker warrior that runs in an organized Zerg ball in WvW. I trait very heavily into the defense and tactics tree. My biggest gripe is that the default traits in the tactics tree all revolve around reviving someone which is very situational instead of having tactics the warrior would have in effect all the time. I revived twelve people last night over a three hour span. Not very helpful for the other two hours and fifty eight minutes when I wasn’t reviving someone.

Here is my suggestions.

1. Change out the adept default tactic of determined revival with desperate power.
2. Change out the master default tactic of fast healer with empowered
3. Remove revivers might and give us the grand master default tactic such as Gain protection for 3 seconds whenever you are disabled. (stun, daze, knockdown, knockback, launch, float, sink, fear). This effect can trigger once every 5 seconds.

I know my next suggestion is a big one but we really need a gap closer on each weapon set. Right now we have too many problems closing the gap… We remove movement impairing effects and they get applied twice over before our cool downs are up.

oZii.2864:

I dont agree that there is a problem with Berserkers Power and Heightened focus I believe I even understand why they have those traits and I am newish to warrior and never rolled tanky. They are there to give those that aren’t speccing hard into Zerker/DPS and allow them to still dish out decent damage.

Actually both those traits are used in the “hard Zerker DPS” build, which also involves the Greatsword (which is the only weapon that benefits from not ever using its burst skill, or more specifically, has no need to use its burst skill). That argument doesn’t even really make sense when considering Berserker’s Power. Since it’s a percentage, it’ll benefit the full DPS builds far more than any other. However, if you looked at my suggestion for a fix, those traits are still doing the exact same thing, they’re just encouraging you to actually use your burst skill rather than saving the adrenaline.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

Eviscerate – Same damage across all levels of adrenaline. Reduces cooldown based on adrenaline level. So basically if the total cooldown is 10, each stage of adrenaline reduces it by three. (Note that this takes effect WHEN the ability goes into cooldown. You’re not speeding the cooldown up by gaining adrenaline after the fact, you’re causing the the Stage 3 Eviscerate to put the ability on a 4 second cooldown as opposed to 10). This would create scenarios where the player could think “If I wanted to deal consistent damage, I trait for increased adrenaline gain (axes already have traits for that) so that I can do an eviscerate every 4 seconds. Or if I want to do a quick burst, I do a maxed eviscerate, then immediately eviscerate again as soon as I hit one stage of adrenaline.” That allows for higher burst, but then puts the skill on a long cooldown. Obviously those exact values are pretty crazy, and it’d probably be best to increase the base cooldown of the skill in order to make the whole cooldown reduction thing feel more useful.

It wouldn’t work. For one, you could use Healing Surge and Signet of Fury to replenish to full adrenaline quickly, meaning you could do at most 3 Eviscerates in 8 seconds. That’s a ton of damage.

Also, the Grandmaster traits in Discipline would cause even more issues. Quick Bursts would make it so that you could have the same three Eviscerates happen within 6.4 seconds. On the other hand, Adrenal Reserves would make it much, much easier to use Eviscerate.

So the end result would be the Eviscerate would change into something alike to Heartseeker. Heartseeker is designed to be used only when your enemy has low health, but due to its properties and lack of cooldown, people spam it.

Kill Shot – Greatly reduce the charge time and damage, so maybe you only need to stay still for a quarter of a second. The skill doesn’t improve based on adrenaline, but instead only ever uses 1 bar of adrenaline, and has no cooldown. So basically, if you have 3 bars of adrenaline, then you can chain off 3 kill shots back to back. Again, actual numbers would have to change to compensate, this is just from a mechanics standpoint.

Not going to work. You’re basically asking to make it possible for someone to use Kill Shot like 9 times in a row. And all of the adrenaline skills have an effect that gets better with more adrenaline. Your suggested Kill Shot does not change with more Adrenaline. So why would someone store their adrenaline for the higher versions?

And besides, the Rifle already has Volley for a multishot damage skill.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

oZii.2864:

I dont agree that there is a problem with Berserkers Power and Heightened focus I believe I even understand why they have those traits and I am newish to warrior and never rolled tanky. They are there to give those that aren’t speccing hard into Zerker/DPS and allow them to still dish out decent damage.

Actually both those traits are used in the “hard Zerker DPS” build, which also involves the Greatsword (which is the only weapon that benefits from not ever using its burst skill, or more specifically, has no need to use its burst skill). That argument doesn’t even really make sense when considering Berserker’s Power. Since it’s a percentage, it’ll benefit the full DPS builds far more than any other. However, if you looked at my suggestion for a fix, those traits are still doing the exact same thing, they’re just encouraging you to actually use your burst skill rather than saving the adrenaline.

Optimally those traits are used in the DPS build if you are going for max damage output.

Sub optimally they are still doing the samething. Giving warriors comparable damage while not necessarily speccing for dps. I understand that those traits are the optimal to take for a DPS build I am not debating that. What I am saying is that they provide builds not focused max dps but maybe some survivability, healing etc to still have good damage.

Those traits are also good to use on your burst skill as the damage increase is given upfront. So your eviscerate hits for more damage. I know GS has a burst skill not used hardly ever so it benefits it but those 2 traits benefit all weapons until you feel it is the right time to use your burst skill and it still benefits that skill.

If berserkers power is say comparable to +300 power I could as a option because of that trait shave some power off of my gear to take stats somewhere else and still pump out good damage. Heightened focus at stage 3 adrenaline is almost 25 stacks on a perception sigil for free basically. So just my opinion both of those traits are really good and provide options actually and allow you to be more flexible with your trait pts/gear if your doing something else other than all out damage build.

oZii.2864:

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

oZii.2864:

I dont agree that there is a problem with Berserkers Power and Heightened focus I believe I even understand why they have those traits and I am newish to warrior and never rolled tanky. They are there to give those that aren’t speccing hard into Zerker/DPS and allow them to still dish out decent damage.

Actually both those traits are used in the “hard Zerker DPS” build, which also involves the Greatsword (which is the only weapon that benefits from not ever using its burst skill, or more specifically, has no need to use its burst skill). That argument doesn’t even really make sense when considering Berserker’s Power. Since it’s a percentage, it’ll benefit the full DPS builds far more than any other. However, if you looked at my suggestion for a fix, those traits are still doing the exact same thing, they’re just encouraging you to actually use your burst skill rather than saving the adrenaline.

Optimally those traits are used in the DPS build if you are going for max damage output.

Sub optimally they are still doing the samething. Giving warriors comparable damage while not necessarily speccing for dps. I understand that those traits are the optimal to take for a DPS build I am not debating that. What I am saying is that they provide builds not focused max dps but maybe some survivability, healing etc to still have good damage.

Those traits are also good to use on your burst skill as the damage increase is given upfront. So your eviscerate hits for more damage. I know GS has a burst skill not used hardly ever so it benefits it but those 2 traits benefit all weapons until you feel it is the right time to use your burst skill and it still benefits that skill.

If berserkers power is say comparable to +300 power I could as a option because of that trait shave some power off of my gear to take stats somewhere else and still pump out good damage. Heightened focus at stage 3 adrenaline is almost 25 stacks on a perception sigil for free basically. So just my opinion both of those traits are really good and provide options actually and allow you to be more flexible with your trait pts/gear if your doing something else other than all out damage build.

I’m aware of the uses of both of those traits. However if you read past the line in my post that was quoted before, I don’t talk about removing them. I talk about having them apply on use of your burst skill. The problem is that they’re passive and they promote passive play rather than use of your class mechanic. If you instead have them apply the EXACT SAME EFFECT when you use your burst skill, you’re at least letting the player actively make use of all their abilities. Again, the argument is not about the usefulness of the traits, it’s about how they’re actually applying the bonuses.

Ahh so your saying that it should apply if you actually connect with your burst skill and its for a set amount of time. I see your suggestion I still prefer them the way that they are.

Your suggestion does promote a more active use of your burst skills but I don’t think the burst skills aren’t used with the current set up. I still use my burst from hammer and don’t think to myself I am losing that bonus.

Your suggestion promotes spamming to keep the power and is situational. I think if your suggestion was taken people would probably not take the trait unless its in PvE maybe.

Your suggestion would be better if the actual bonuses where even higher for (x) duration. 12% bonus damage is good when I have it the majority of the fight and I control when I lose that bonus but in order to get access to that power by having to land the burst I wouldn’t be a fan off.

Right now as it is if I trully want my 12% damage and extra crit chance I can use surge and I have it on demand in an instant without having to find someone to hit.