Guild Wars 2

Many of us may be wondering which is better dps wise. I tried to combine few functions and calculate it my self.

NOTE: my calculations include a lot of rounding and they may be incorret as I am stuck on my holiday with just a crappy touch screen freebie calculator and I am not able to use my own calc which I use with my studies. Please if you know something about mathemathics could you kindly check the result as it can be a bit off.

If you find any mistakes please point them out so I can correct them. Even a small one can change the result.

So. What I did is that I calculated the damage for warrior axe 1 attack chain and created a function where I was able to calculate the max damage when getting power and precision only from traits so if you take 10 in power ypu lose 10 in precision with the max of 30 trait points.

So the power scailing avarage for the whole chain is ( 0.75+1.6+2.55 ) devided by 6 which equals about 0.817 power scaling on avarage for one hit. Then I calculated the total damage for 100 hits assuming that the game would obey critical chanse perfectly.

This is D= a*NH + b*CH

Where D is total damage done with 100 hits, NH is the damage of a normal hit, a is the amount of normal hits, CH is critical hit and b is the amount of critical hits.

For weapon strength I used 952.5 which is the avarage from exotic lvl 80 axe and the armor value I used was 2600

x equals the power gained from traits which is a number between 0 and 300

NH = ( ( x + 916 ) * 0.817 * 952.5 ) devided by 2600
a = 96 – ( 300 – x ) devided by 21
CH = same as NH except you add also 1.5 as a multiplier for the total power like other multipliers
b = ( 300 – x ) devided by 21 and then add 4

When I calculated the function D out from this data i got something like this:
D= -0.0072 times x squared + 26.12x + 29905

Result:
The biggest value this function can get when x is something between 0 and 300 is achieved when you have 300 power. So at least in traits power seems to be better than precision when going for high dps.

I would like to calculate this in general for the game as I believe power is better than precision but I am interested that what if you have high critical damage stat, would that change the thing, but for that I need my calculator and some more information. The informations I need is:

1. What is the most amount of power you can get from stats and what is the biggest precision value then. ( in pve means that what is the max power gained from equipping full exotic berserker gear and getting 30 trait points in power trait line and 30 in precision )

2. What is the most amount of precision you can get from stats and what is the biggest achievable power value then. ( if total value of precision will go over 2932 cap it there and try to get as much power as possible as total of 2932 precision equals 100% crit chanse )

3. What is the biggest critical damage amount you can get when you go for situation 1 and 2 ( note that this also depends on the profession )

With that information I think I should be able to calculate how you can achieve the biggest dps with axe chain or any other skill if you know the power scailing for the skill you want both in spvp and pve if I can just get the max stat information from both environments.

Reserved for future calculations.

Reserved for future calculations.

Reserved for future calculations.

Why should you ever compare power and precision in the first place in regards to DPS? They’re BOTH essential in maximizing DPS.

Whats the point of high precision if you don’t even have base damage? And whats the point of having high power when you don’t have critical rate?

Thats why I want to calculate the thing and find which stat combination can bring you the highest dps. Some guy told me that precision will bring you more damage than power ( which I do not think ) and I’m trying to calculate how the thing really is and will critical damage flip the tables around or not. Ofcourse it is clear that the best direct damage you can get is from berserkers gear.

The value of Power depends on Precision you already have, the value of Precision changes depending on Power. The more you stack one, the better the other becomes eventually overcoming the first. There is no simple answer as “A is better than B” or “B is better than A”. To make things more complicated, you also have crit damage.
The best you can do, is calculate which one is better for you with the build and gear you already have.

Ozzrel.9825:

The value of Power depends on Precision you already have, the value of Precision changes depending on Power.

Indeed. It has a very Ying/Yang deal going on.

The answer depends very, very heavily on whether or not you are using pie.

Somebody’s already gone to the trouble of working this out

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12dmi5/tip_stat_optimization_with_crit_damage/?sort=confidence

Quote #1:
Damage is calculated as Power x [1 + Crit Chance x (Crit Damage – 1)] x constant (which depends on weapon, skill coefficients and enemies armor). To be clear, crit chance is a number between 0 and 1 and crit damage is 1.5 + crit damage from equipment.

Taking partial derivative with respect to your current power, crit chance and crit damage gives you the respective per stat point increase in damage

(1) 1 + Crit Chance x (Crit Damage – 1) for each point in power

(2) Power x (Crit Damage – 1)/2100 for each point in precision

(3) Power x Crit Chance/[(stat point tradeoff) x 100] for each stat point tradeoff for crit damage

The higher the number the better. So if (3) > (1) and (2), then moving some power and precision to crit damage increases DPS (ignoring effects triggered by crit). Your DPS is optimal when (1) = (2) = (3).

Quote #2:
A simple example: suppose you currently have 1800 power and 30% crit chance and +40% crit damage (1.9 crit multiplier) from equipment.

Now suppose you can optimize your gear and either get 15 power, 15 precision or 3% crit damage (1% crit for 5 stat points). Then the values are

(1) 1 + (0.3)(1.9 – 1) = 1.27 for each point in power

(2) 1800 x (1.9 – 1)/2100 = 0.77 for each point precision

(3) 1800 × 0.3/(5 × 100) = 1.08 for each stat point tradeoff.

In this case, you’re better off getting power > crit damage > precision.

However, because of the limited stats combination on equipment, we seldom deal with a case when the tradeoff is as clear cut as the above example. Let’s just say that there is much more math and search to be done to determine the optimal stat allocation.

You need a good balance of Power / Crit Chance / Crit Damage [Cond. Dmg / Cond. Duration] for optimal DPS

Schwahrheit.4203:

Why should you ever compare power and precision in the first place in regards to DPS? They’re BOTH essential in maximizing DPS.

Whats the point of high precision if you don’t even have base damage? And whats the point of having high power when you don’t have critical rate?

Because there’s a limit to gear slots to boost Power, Precision, Toughness,Vitality, Condition Damage etc… and you need to find an optimum.

Beefcake.9032:

Somebody’s already gone to the trouble of working this out

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12dmi5/tip_stat_optimization_with_crit_damage/?sort=confidence

What doesn’t make sense is why they didn’t just solve with the current high-end gear.

The only practical questions to be solved are the following:

1. Using Berserker gear with a 30/30 spec, do you want a power or precision Sigil?
2. Using Berserker gear, with a 20/20 spec, is 100 power or precision better?
3. Using Knight’s or Valkyrie set of gear, do you want a power or precision Sigil?

Basically take those 3 answers (and how much one or the other is favored) to determine your gear / spec strategy.

It’s pretty common sense that X * Y is greatest when x and y are equal. That’s like saying the sky is blue. E.g. the reddit post makes me yawn. What’s more interesting is finding out if the existing stats in the game are imbalanced so that power or precision are generally more effective. Last time I looked at it, I think that power won (also from casual review and analysis from other players at other times) for raw pew pew.

Precision has a lot more additional synergy with Sigils, traits, procs, and other random stuff though.

^
Yep he has a point, most “damage” builds use precision as a “catalyst.” Meaning in order to have strong burst or condition (For some builds that bleeds on crit), you must have precision. In short, you are wasting time comparing power and precision.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Whats the point of high precision if you don’t even have base damage?

Procs. This is what makes precision significantly better than power if they had the same damage increase, so it’s why I imagine that power has a better return on pure damage than precision does.

From a raw DPS standpoint power will be the strongest stat in all but the most obscure of situations.

You absolutely have to take procs into account. They make a huge, huge difference in how you view the stats – with a couple proc effects from traits and a pie active, Precision is very clearly the best stat in the game.

EasymodeX.4062:

Beefcake.9032:

Somebody’s already gone to the trouble of working this out

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/12dmi5/tip_stat_optimization_with_crit_damage/?sort=confidence

What doesn’t make sense is why they didn’t just solve with the current high-end gear.

The only practical questions to be solved are the following:

1. Using Berserker gear with a 30/30 spec, do you want a power or precision Sigil?
2. Using Berserker gear, with a 20/20 spec, is 100 power or precision better?
3. Using Knight’s or Valkyrie set of gear, do you want a power or precision Sigil?

Basically take those 3 answers (and how much one or the other is favored) to determine your gear / spec strategy.

It’s pretty common sense that X * Y is greatest when x and y are equal. That’s like saying the sky is blue. E.g. the reddit post makes me yawn. What’s more interesting is finding out if the existing stats in the game are imbalanced so that power or precision are generally more effective. Last time I looked at it, I think that power won (also from casual review and analysis from other players at other times) for raw pew pew.

Precision has a lot more additional synergy with Sigils, traits, procs, and other random stuff though.

I could try to get an answer for the situations you introduced when I get off from holiday the guestion is which profession you want me to use for each situation? As with 20/20 spec you have critical damage if you are a thief but not if you are a warrior. And which weapon and skill do you want me to use? ( I will get the power scaling by testing steady weapons ) Also I would preciate if someone could post the stat bonuses gained from full exo berserk, knight and valkyrie gear as I do have only rare sets in pve.

+ problem.p +

I don’t have to give you any calculations to let you know, warriors #1 = faster than engineer #1. DPS will forever be different based on time.

This post is for B1FF

Lunar Corporation.5720:

+ problem.p +

I don’t have to give you any calculations to let you know, warriors #1 = faster than engineer #1. DPS will forever be different based on time.

This post is for B1FF

I just want to point out that I was not interested in how much dps you can get. I was trying to calculate how you can achieve it ( with #1 skill on warrior axe, when getting stats from traits)

In my opinion the overall best dps can be achieved by condition/power build, otherwise I don’t see the point why bleeds and burning exist.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Why should you ever compare power and precision in the first place in regards to DPS? They’re BOTH essential in maximizing DPS.

Whats the point of high precision if you don’t even have base damage? And whats the point of having high power when you don’t have critical rate?

Actually you can do high precision/low power. My mesmer is like that and I use proc-effect type sigils for other effects, since my mesmer is on the tankier side with Precision/Toughness/Condition items, and I burn opponents down through conditions and health attrition by spamming clones with my staff.

And you can do the converse as well. My necromancer is a Juggermancer, and it has good base damage (3452 attack) while having awesome survivability (29,654 hp and 2873 armor + Death Shroud). The crit % is a measly 4%, but I don’t use % proc sigils and my attack is good so it hardly matters. And I’m almost always the last person standing when s— hits the fan.

If you don’t want to sacrifice a ton of DPS for survivability, you have to work both your trait synergy and your utility skills when you’re considering item stat spread. For instance low crit% on a Warrior can be largely made up by Signet of Rage and For Great Justice. IMO Warriors should always have high power because most of their attacks are direct damage, but precision depends on whether you want to be more tanky or hit harder (with either damaging sigil procs or overall DPS).

Power scales the best, every point of power will give you a positive return in the long run. It also scales better based on how much of the other two you have. Crit damage modifies crit which modifies power.

You need at least 50% crit damage to get a positive (1:1+) return on precision. At 50% crit damage your long run damage will be increased by your crit percentage, i.e. 60% crit is 60% increased damage in the long run, at that point +5% crit is the same as +5% damage so take the crit for the procs.

If you have more than 50% crit damage you get more than 1:1 on your precision, e.g. if you have 60% crit damage you will get 1.1% added to your long run damage for each % of crit instead of 1% for 1%.

hi, i’m a bit noob in this game, but at the beginning (until l80) i was more greatsword, power, dps, and getting killed quickly, i was looking for a compromise between dps & survivability, so i thought, as a warrior 0 power -30 precision – 0 defense – 20 tactics (i want the warhorn 20% less cooldown+turn debuff into buff) – 20 discipline => +20% crit damage, +sweet vengeance (or run faster..)

i took lyssa/rubicon armor set, aiming for precision, an ascended amulet, i’m currently at 56% crit + fury on an immobilize + for great justice + i focus as i can on alteration damage, and a bit less on toughness

and i bought some cheap 40%life steal on crit food, until i can afford omnoberry.

thus more crit + 20% crit dmg + life steal + vulnerability on crit + bleeding on crit + 10%sword mastery crit%, going dual sword. (or warnhorn in dungeons)

i think i’m less glass canon than full dps thx to crits, + with alteration, you ignore armor.

so yes i suppose power > precision in term of damage, but without calculation, i hope my build is not too crappy !

Mortal.3025:

hi, i’m a bit noob in this game, but at the beginning (until l80) i was more greatsword, power, dps, and getting killed quickly, i was looking for a compromise between dps & survivability, so i thought, as a warrior 0 power -30 precision – 0 defense – 20 tactics (i want the warhorn 20% less cooldown+turn debuff into buff) – 20 discipline => +20% crit damage, +sweet vengeance (or run faster..)

i took lyssa/rubicon armor set, aiming for precision, an ascended amulet, i’m currently at 56% crit + fury on an immobilize + for great justice + i focus as i can on alteration damage, and a bit less on toughness

and i bought some cheap 40%life steal on crit food, until i can afford omnoberry.

thus more crit + 20% crit dmg + life steal + vulnerability on crit + bleeding on crit + 10%sword mastery crit%, going dual sword. (or warnhorn in dungeons)

i think i’m less glass canon than full dps thx to crits, + with alteration, you ignore armor.

so yes i suppose power > precision in term of damage, but without calculation, i hope my build is not too crappy !

Its not so much about where you put your trait points for this comparison it is more about the armor and trinkets. Not saying where you put your points isn’t important it is very important. You can get by on a warrior by having less precision and power than other other classes because you can make it up easily through traits to put out as much if not more damage than they can.

It’s not impossible, but it is highly improbable that you will ever find the answer you are looking for OP.

Power and Precision just has too many factors.
First, there is the basis of damage. What gives you more damage overall?
Once you achieve that, then you must find the perfect balance. Why?

Higher power makes each point of precision that much better. Higher precision makes each point of power that much better. It would be absurdly hard to find the point where they align.

Assuming you can somehow find that, now you need to include procs. How do you calculate the effectiveness of procs into the equation? You would also have to have entirely separate calculations for EACH type of proc and you would have to assign numerical values to procs.

Assuming you can balance all that out, now how do you add in Fury (free 20% crit), stacks of Might, and all that stuff into your calculations? The only way I could see that possible is either assuming you maintain permanent state of might/fury or that you assign a percentage value depending on how long you can maintain them.

That is extremely unreliable as human error completely screws it over.
Not to mention, you must get the exact times of each attack (both animation delay + backswing) in order to make sure that all calculations are correct.

Possible? Definitely.
Worth it? Absolutely not. Just get both.
If anything, just trial and error and find something that works.

Usually power/precision are stacked together anyway. I maintain 95% crit chance on my warrior build that I’ve posted a few times (the Axe/Shield) and I have high power as well.

If this is for WvWvW or PvP calculations… meh, still don’t think it’s worth it lol

Agree with cook though this post is old I think the guy above me bumped it. I think after a while you kind of get a feel for what you need.

My build for instance I have 91% chance to crit evis when fury is up. To me this is extremely important when running axe. I did have a 95% chance to crit eviscerate but when I weighed do I wan +6% critical chance or 141 power I took the power

I think this is more for min/maxing which I like to try to do as best I can. There is alot of factors to consider I think you can get a feel for what works best. If you are going for damage power usually come with precision if you take knights or zerker which most people going dps chose then you have to consider crit damage. I like crit damage but I don’t value it over power or crit chance I have 75 critical damage and I get high evis crits often so for me I am satisfied with sacrificing some critical damage for toughness which I ended up doing. Though 100 critical damage does look nice in the hero screen