Guild Wars 2

Thick Skin
Convert damaging conditions into a stack of vulnerability of the same duration. (Cooldown: 5s) Example, if I had 10 stacks of bleeds, it would be converted into 10 vulnerability, its not really condition removal, it simply moves a great weakness into one of our strengths, having 25 Vulnerability is very dangerous in itself.

This implies you have thick skin and you have to penetrate it first.

This idea is one I found out from another poster, it was a /VERY/ good idea and I think it deserved its own post, TBH.

Daecollo.9578:

Thick Skin
Convert damaging conditions into a stack of vulnerability of the same duration. (Cooldown: 5s) Example, if I had 10 stacks of bleeds, it would be converted into 10 vulnerability.

This implies you have thick skin and you have to penetrate it first.

This idea is one I found out from another poster, it was a /VERY/ good idea and I think it deserved its own post, TBH.

Why do you use /VERY/ ? Is your textile broken and not wanting to italicize?

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not to mention thakitten ’s a dumb idea, since Vulnerability does not affect condition damage. And think about all the Warrior rage you would get out of all the neutralized Flurries turning into pathetic 2-4s of 8-12 stacks of Vulnerability.

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

Still, I think it’s a dumb idea, simply because Vulnerability does not benefit conditions at all. Basically resulting in a situation where you’d be massively punishing any condi build that has more than 5s duration.

Also, Warhorn has two skills. By playing your cards right, you’d end up with only ever having this Thick Skin convert two piles of conditions to Vulnerability.

And just for comparison, The Lemongrass Poultry Soup is -40% condition duration. Your suggested condi wipe would result in a similar effect on anyone who has condis lasting longer than 8 seconds.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

Still, I think it’s a dumb idea, simply because Vulnerability does not benefit conditions at all. Basically resulting in a situation where you’d be massively punishing any condi build that has more than 5s duration.

Also, Warhorn has two skills. By playing your cards right, you’d end up with only ever having this Thick Skin convert two piles of conditions to Vulnerability.

So using your skills with each other to gain a benefit like every other class can is wrong? /le-gasp!

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

Still, I think it’s a dumb idea, simply because Vulnerability does not benefit conditions at all. Basically resulting in a situation where you’d be massively punishing any condi build that has more than 5s duration.

Also, Warhorn has two skills. By playing your cards right, you’d end up with only ever having this Thick Skin convert two piles of conditions to Vulnerability.

So using your skills with each other to gain a benefit like every other class can is wrong? /le-gasp!

What other class has a trait or utility that limits all damage-dealing conditions to a maximum duration of 5 seconds?

What other class has a trait or utility that limits all damage-dealing conditions to a maximum duration of 5 seconds while giving frequent Protection?

As an example, a sword warrior has a default duration of 8s, most likely 12s due to the trait. Well, your Thick Skin just cut their default damage by a third (Ooh, looks like Protection), their traited duration by more than half (Ooh, looks better than Protection), while allowing the receiving Warrior to convert for Protection (Ooh, it is Protection).

Hell, at least keep it reasonable. Doing something crazy like making Dolyak Signet’s passive remove 1 condition every 10 seconds instead of giving 180 toughness would be better.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

Still, I think it’s a dumb idea, simply because Vulnerability does not benefit conditions at all. Basically resulting in a situation where you’d be massively punishing any condi build that has more than 5s duration.

Also, Warhorn has two skills. By playing your cards right, you’d end up with only ever having this Thick Skin convert two piles of conditions to Vulnerability.

So using your skills with each other to gain a benefit like every other class can is wrong? /le-gasp!

What other class has a trait or utility that limits all damage-dealing conditions to a maximum duration of 5 seconds?

What other class has a trait or utility that limits all damage-dealing conditions to a maximum duration of 5 seconds while giving frequent Protection?

Guardian/Elementalist/Ranger/Necromancer/Engineer/Thief… Can all constantly remove conditions every 5 seconds if they spec correctly while giving themselves constant protection. You asked for it.

Not just turn them into another condition that can kill you, but completely remove them from existence.

25 Vulnerability is 25% Damage taken It is significant if you have a lot of it.

Also, you cannot choose which condition the warhorn converts, if you get 1 stack of bleeding right before you use it, it will convert something else. It is not hard to apply bleeds.

Please argue with me when you actually play a warrior. Warhorn removes the most sudden condition, this trait only effects damaging conditions, if you have any other condition or even if you get 1 stack of bleed, cripple, chill, weakness (which I can apply 2 every second on my necromancer.) It will convert that instead, your entire concept is based off a gimmick, it looks good on paper but in a real fight and real play it will never just always work how you want to, maybe 25% of the time?

Please come back and then give me example that are not loaded and based off paper mechanics, in pvp nothing ever goes your way.

Daecollo.9578:

Guardian/Elementalist/Ranger/Necromancer/Engineer/Thief… Can all constantly remove conditions every 5 seconds if they spec correctly, they do not trait deeply to do this.

You are wrong claiming they can remove conditions constantly every 5 seconds. The standard in this game is 10 seconds.

Guardians can remove 2 conditions passively every 10 seconds if traited and have the correct heal.

Rangers can remove one condition every 10 seconds if they have the correct utility skill.

Necromancers can transfer a condition to a minion every 10 seconds if traited.

Elemenatlists..have multiple ways of curing conditions. Through traits, utilities, and weapon skills. They also have Signet of Water that cures a condition every 10 seconds.

Thief can only remove a condition on stealth (If traited) or when using “Shadow Return” on sword main hand.

Engineers have a 8% chance of converting incoming conditions into boons and they also become immune to conditions when they go below 25% health. They also remove a condition when consuming a elixir.

Mesmers, Warrior, and Thieves are the only three classes without passive condition removal.

Your suggestion for condition removal is… not good in my opinion and I would rather not have Warrior go down that path. If you want more condition removal then just make the minor trait into remove a condition every 10 seconds to be inline with the rest of the classes.

Edit: As to them “trating deeply” some have to, others don’t. Take Engineer for example. Their first passive condition removal (8% chance of converting a condition into a boon) is a Master Tier minor trait. As you can see it is honestly not good. The good trait for condition removal is the elixir consuming one which is Trait X for Engineers. So that is 20 Trait points for a… decent condition removal.

Daecollo.9578:

Guardian/Elementalist/Ranger/Necromancer/Engineer/Thief… Can all constantly remove conditions every 5 seconds if they spec correctly, they do not trait deeply to do this.

And you want the same for 5 points into a traitline that most Warriors already spec into anyway. Nice to know that you’re not biased at all.

25 Vulnerability is 25% Damage taken It is significant if you have a lot of it.

Which does not affect conditions whatsoever, making it mostly useless.

Also, you cannot choose which condition the warhorn converts, if you get 1 stack of bleeding right before you use it, it will convert something else. It is not hard to apply bleeds.

But all of your damage-oriented conditions are converted once every 5 seconds. That leaves you with Blind, Chilled, Crippled, Fear, Immobilized, Vulnerability and Weakness. Oh but wait, Charge or 10 points into Defense takes care of Immobilized, Crippled and Chilled. Also, Fear isn’t really a concern there either.

A condition spec would have no reason to use Vulnerability on you, so that’s not really much of a concern.

Leaves you with two non-damage conditions to worry about. Which isn’t really much.

Please argue with me when you actually play a warrior. Come back and then give me example that are not loaded and based off paper mechanics, in pvp nothing ever goes your way.

If nothing ever goes your way, you make it go your way.

Vanthian.9267:

Daecollo.9578:

Guardian/Elementalist/Ranger/Necromancer/Engineer/Thief… Can all constantly remove conditions every 5 seconds if they spec correctly, they do not trait deeply to do this.

Guardians can remove 2 conditions passively every 10 seconds if traited and have the correct heal.

Rangers can remove one condition every 10 seconds if they have the correct utility skill.

Thief can only remove a condition on stealth (If traited) or when using “Shadow Return” on sword main hand.

Necromancers can transfer a condition to a minion every 10 seconds if traited.

Engineers have a 8% chance of converting incoming conditions into boons and they also become immune to conditions when they go below 25% health.

Elemenatlists..have multiple ways of curing conditions. Through traits, utilities, and weapon skills. They also have Signet of Water that cures a condition every 10 seconds.

Mesmers and Warrior are the only two classes without passive condition removal.

Your suggestion for condition removal is… not good in my opinion and I would rather not have Warrior go down that path. If you want more condition removal then just make the minor trait into remove a condition every 10 seconds to be inline with the rest of the classes.

As to them “trating deeply” some have to, others don’t.

Rangers can remove 3 every 10 seconds with a trait, and then another every 10 seconds with a signet. He also has a water field healing ability that has a high uptime.

Guardians can remove 2 with signet and 1 with a minor trait, and also has several shouts which completely convert conditions into boons while absorbing conditions with one.

Thief has a trait which he can every 4 seconds go into stealth and remove 2 conditions. His healing ability also removes all damaging conditions and even more with that trait because it stealths you.

Necromancers can send 7 conditions to there minions every 10 seconds, send them at there target, consume them.

Engineers have many water fields with there new healing turret and also can convert all conditions into boons twice with an F key and utility with short cool-downs, not as good as the others but very nice.

Elementalist I won’t even say anything about. They have it all over the place.

Mesmers don’t get as many because of all the clones/phantasms. They also have Null Field, the best condition remover in the game.

Are you talking about dogged march? It only reduces them by 33%, unless your going to say “OMG FOOD/RUNES!” Which can’t work in SPVP and is probably going to get nerfed soon, Elementalists have the same trait so they can do the same. Match that with there 100s of condition removals.

Do you ever stop posting ridiculous ideas Daecollo? I understand that you have a lot of inspiration and some good ideas, but you post EVERY one of them and even throw them in a ridiculously number of threads. This idea is just insultingly ridiculous to us warriors. You don’t speak for us asking for condition IMMUNITY like this.

Olba.5376:

Oh but wait, Charge or 10 points into Defense takes care of Immobilized, Crippled and Chilled. Also, Fear isn’t really a concern there either.

Also Restorative Strength will remove those non-damaging conditions when you heal. Couple that trait with mending and you will remove all conditions hindering mobility and then two harmful conditions after. That is a much better option than Dogged March, which really doesn’t magically solve all our mobility problems. That 33% isn’t much for how much condition duration people can build.

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers can remove 3 every 10 seconds with a trait, and then another every 10 seconds with a signet. He also has a water field healing ability that has a high uptime.

The first is a Grandmaster trait. The second is a Signet. Water fields are useless without finishers.

Guardians can remove 2 with signet and 1 with a minor trait, and also has several shouts which completely convert conditions into boons while absorbing conditions with one.

The first is, again, a Grandmaster trait coupled with a Signet. The shout conversion is also Grandmaster.

Thief has a trait which he can every 4 seconds go into stealth and remove 2 conditions. His healing ability also removes all damaging conditions and even more with that trait because it stealths you.

Thief also has half the HP of a warrior, thus their vulnerability to conditions is much higher.

Necromancers can send 7 conditions to there minions every 10 seconds, send them at there target, consume them.

Again, Grandmaster traits, along with taking all of your utility, healing and elite slots.

All I’m seeing is you rattling off a ton of Grandmaster traits and utilities, sometimes multiple. And you’re asking for something comparable, if not outright superior, for one freaking minor trait that most warriors already get anyway?

So tell me, why are you not suggesting a Signet removal for us as well?

Your little gimmick: Convert Warhorn + That trait is 30 Points. It would take the same amount to do that as it would a grand-master trait.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcR9haG0M0s (Turtle’s Def=Dogged March.)
Its the same amount of traits as a grand-master skill to DO that gimmick.

And not only that you get LESS from it, because our vitality tree has kitteny 5/15/25 traits!

Daecollo.9578:

Your little gimmick: Convert Warhorn + That trait is 30 Points. It would take the same amount to do that as it would a grand-master trait.

Pretty sure Quick Breathing is Master, making it 20 points.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcR9haG0M0s (Turtle’s Def=Dogged March.)
Its the same amount of traits as a grand-master skill to DO that gimmick.

Which isn’t really necessary at all, considering that Charge already takes care of them. I simply put Dogged March in to simplify it a bit.

Again, why are you suggesting this rather than something like a signet with a passive removal? And weren’t you already happy with suggestions about bursts removing conditions?

The very least you could do is make it so thakitten converts to something that somehow benefits the condition build. Vulnerability does not affect condition damage and most condition attacks have low physical damage, so the conversion isn’t that much different from a full-on cleanse. Being Vulnerability also makes it prone to Quick Breathing. Why not something like Weakness?

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Your little gimmick: Convert Warhorn + That trait is 30 Points. It would take the same amount to do that as it would a grand-master trait.

Pretty sure Quick Breathing is Master, making it 20 points.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcR9haG0M0s (Turtle’s Def=Dogged March.)
Its the same amount of traits as a grand-master skill to DO that gimmick.

Which isn’t really necessary at all, considering that Charge already takes care of them. I simply put Dogged March in to simplify it a bit.

You need BOTH traits so they work, if you don’t have the 5/10 defensive trait which you said to do your gimmick how can it even work, YOU MUST LOOK AT TOTAL points spent to do your gimmick.

Total points spent for the GM Trait: 30.
Total points spent for the gimmick 25% chance to probably work in real pvp trick: 30.

Daecollo.9578:

Rangers can remove 3 every 10 seconds with a trait, and then another every 10 seconds with a signet. He also has a water field healing ability that has a high uptime.

Guardians can remove 2 with signet and 1 with a minor trait, and also has several shouts which completely convert conditions into boons while absorbing conditions with one.

Thief has a trait which he can every 4 seconds go into stealth and remove 2 conditions. His healing ability also removes all damaging conditions and even more with that trait because it stealths you.

Necromancers can send 7 conditions to there minions every 10 seconds, send them at there target, consume them.

Engineers have many water fields with there new healing turret and also can convert all conditions into boons twice with an F key and utility with short cool-downs, not as good as the others but very nice.

Elementalist I won’t even say anything about. They have it all over the place.

Mesmers don’t get as many because of all the clones/phantasms. They also have Null Field, the best condition remover in the game.

Are you talking about dogged march? It only reduces them by 33%, unless your going to say “OMG FOOD/RUNES!” Which can’t work in SPVP and is probably going to get nerfed soon, Elementalists have the same trait so they can do the same. Match that with there 100s of condition removals.

Rangers. Grandmaster Trait is the only thing possible of removing three conditions. I thought you were asking not going deeply? Or have you changed your mind?

Guardian, it is one for the signet. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Resolve

Thief: False, the trait is to remove a condition every 3 seconds while in stealth. It is currently bugged in my opinion as it wipes one condition on entry and then another 3 seconds later. (Stealth can last up to 4 seconds long on any normal stealth skill excluding Shadow Refuge).

Necromancer, I already stated they can send one condition to everyone of their minions every 10 seconds. They can not have both of these at the same time mind you. The consuming and the sending conditions are utilities skills which are also their minions. So they choose either heavy passive removal or active mass removal.

Engineer actives are not good. The healing turret detonates when using the secondary skill and therefore is destroyed. It can remove the conditions once. The best they have is consume elixir. The closest thing I can think of you are talking about is Furnigate which doesn’t even effect the caster only allies: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fumigate

Elemenalist do have them everywhere yes, like I stated.

Mesmer’s Null Field is okay…there are other things that server better. A couple of AoEs inside of the null field will force you out of it and completely nullify its point.

All in all, you seem to know a little about the professions and what they have but you misrepresent it. I also never stated anything about dodged marches. I simple said that Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior have no passive condition removal like the other classes. Which is true. Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior all have active condition removal.

I get what you are wanting to do Daecollo but I feel like you are setting yourself for disappointment. The Devs clearly are not diving deep into fixing or tuning the warrior right now regardless of the outcries.

Honestly, like I have posted somewhere else, I think warrior’s major weakness should be conditions. Sure they should have some options for removing them but I don’t think they should be granted radical ways to remove them.

They have plenty of ways to remove movement impairing effects. I think the only way to help warrior’s sustain is to increase their damage or control abilities (which PvE carebears will be mad about due to 100B). On that note, if they just adjust 100B to be the burst and give us something different, it would at least reduce the frequency. There are countless great ideas on ways to fix or improve certain aspects of the warrior, but your idea is not one.

I strongly feel that the Devs need to start at the weapons and rebuild from there then implement effective traits to emphasize certain strengths or playstyles. That way they can resolve our major purpose...burst!

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Not going to happen.

Basically you’re talking about changing all conditions once every 5 seconds into Vulnerability. But throw in Quick Breathing and that would just make all conditions melt.

Not really melt. Also it would only effect damaging conditions. (Bleeding/Burning/Confusion/Poison.)

Even with quick breathing the cooldown for the warhorn is very long. (16s.)

16s cooldown is “very long”?

da puppy?