Guild Wars 2

When a Thief used their F1 (Steal) on a warrior, they get our skill Whirling Axe (off hand axe 5 skills), except their version reflects projectiles and ours don’t. Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

IIRC theirs is also a higher damage modifier.

Our axe is just trash now.

It’s gonna need a major overhaul to fix it’s issues.

deathTouch.9706:

Our axe is just trash now.

It’s gonna need a major overhaul to fix it’s issues.

How dare u saying things like that? Were the best, OP, godlike, unbeatable class..we need nerfs, not buffs /sarcasm.

Axe 4 and 5 both sorta suck. This is nothing new.
Just FYI, Axe auto-attack-chain does more DPS than Axe 5.
Axe 5 is only better when you hit 5 foes with every single blow.

To make Axe viable as an offhand weapon, #4 needs a complete rework, and #5 needs a tiny buff.

For 5 some (mutually exclusive) possibilities include:

• Make damage identical to auto-attack. Thus equal in usefulness vs 1-3 foes, superior vs 4-5 foes
• Granting stability during the whirl
• Reflect projectiles

PS: I’m not complaining about warrior viability as a class. We have plenty of good options. Axe offhand simply isnt one of them.

deathTouch.9706:

Our axe is just trash now.

It’s gonna need a major overhaul to fix it’s issues.

I dont find a problem with axe other than axe #5, so I don’t really thing it needs a complete overhaul. It just honestly seems like Anet mixed things up when making the classes and put our whirling axe on a thief by accident. They might as well make our final thrust a leap and name it heart seeker.

Dand.8231:

For 5 some (mutually exclusive) possibilities include:

• Make damage identical to auto-attack. Thus equal in usefulness vs 1-3 foes, superior vs 4-5 foes - i think dmg is fine as it is in spvp
• Granting stability during the whirl - not going to happen
• Reflect projectiles - i agree

For 5 i would also short casttime by 1sec+pull at the start of animation (and increase cd to 25sec). Buff its dmg in pve/wvw by 50% too – i still don’t know why that buff been spvp olny.

4 needs to be deleted.

Axe 4# should apply 2 stacks of torment on foes. Axe 5# should reflect projectiles and apply vulnerability each hit.
and obviously, both need to be stronger, atleast +25% dmg.

I wouldn’t be envious of the thieves. The last thing a thief needs after shadowstepping next to a warrior is missile reflection.

Warrior axe spin is on a cooldown and is controllable/manageable because of this.

Thief axe spin mandates that a warrior-type be pickpocketed, and is subject to some variety even then, and is thus not inherently reliable.

Think of it like your burst skill. Do you feel that your burst skill should be less useful than or equally useful/powerful as your basic weapon skills?

(hint: no, they shouldn’t. Argument can be made I suppose whether they actually are or not, but point stands that they should not be.)

Why does every skill need to be useful all the time? Axe 4 is good when you don’t have perma-fury, like when you’re running rez banner (and isn’t that standard in groups?). Axe 5 is good when you are facing a lot of mobs. It is also far more likely to hit extra targets because it is 360 degree AE vs. the auto-attack which is not.

BTW it’s pretty standard that weapon attacks 2-5 are a DPS loss vs. auto-attacks on most weapons.

There’s always going to be a bottom of the barrel weapon that needs to work on no matter how good it is. Doesn’t really matter to me which one it is. Buff Axe and another weapon will be on the bottom.

Oraith.1732:

When a Thief used their F1 (Steal) on a warrior, they get our skill Whirling Axe (off hand axe 5 skills), except their version reflects projectiles and ours don’t. Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

The reason for that is that the steal from warriors is arguably the worst one. Thieves are (as you might have noticed) the most squishy class if they are unable to prevent damage by means of dodge or stealth. During the whirling axe skill, the thief is at his most vulnerable. Therefore, to make this steal skill the slightest bit viable, it reflects projectiles.

I hope this answers your question.

When did the whirling axe steal get bugged again? It USED to (many many moons ago)act like the thief elite, unless something has changed recently, it does not reflect anymore

Fletch.3572:

When did the whirling axe steal get bugged again? It USED to (many many moons ago)act like the thief elite, unless something has changed recently, it does not reflect anymore

All skills with a reflect effects which thieves have are bugged. Whirling axt, like Daggerstorm doesn’t reflect all projectiles, especially if it are many projectiles.

Oh no! Your axe skills suck? All of our weps suck as thiefs, save maybe d/p

hircane.1982:

Oh no! Your axe skills suck? All of our weps suck as thiefs, save maybe d/p

I will take ur sword skills anyday. So deal?

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

Buff this man warrior please.

Youkay.5294:

Oraith.1732:

When a Thief used their F1 (Steal) on a warrior, they get our skill Whirling Axe (off hand axe 5 skills), except their version reflects projectiles and ours don’t. Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

The reason for that is that the steal from warriors is arguably the worst one. Thieves are (as you might have noticed) the most squishy class if they are unable to prevent damage by means of dodge or stealth. During the whirling axe skill, the thief is at his most vulnerable. Therefore, to make this steal skill the slightest bit viable, it reflects projectiles.

I hope this answers your question.

you can dodge during whirling axe, i hope this answers your question.

Yaki.9563:

BTW it’s pretty standard that weapon attacks 2-5 are a DPS loss vs. auto-attacks on most weapons.

*if those skills provide additional utility.

Scoobaniec.9561:

hircane.1982:

Oh no! Your axe skills suck? All of our weps suck as thiefs, save maybe d/p

I will take ur sword skills anyday. So deal?

And if they don’t want that sbow, I would like to be able to outrun a pure mobility setup warrior.

Player Character.9467:

Yaki.9563:

BTW it’s pretty standard that weapon attacks 2-5 are a DPS loss vs. auto-attacks on most weapons.

*if those skills provide additional utility.

Yeah, more or less.

Axe 1 and Axe 3 are both fine.
2 and 4 are of questionable usefulness. 5 is just outright silly, it’s effectively a weaker version of auto-1, with notably worse DPS like 95% of the time. That extra 5% of the time is not worth bringing along an offhand axe, which is why it’s rarely seen.

It’s competing with Warhorn, Shield, OH Sword, and OH Mace for a slot, so it need’s to be useful relative to them or else it’ll sit on the sidelines forever, only being used for “lulz” and infinite spinning in town.

Dagraan.2854:

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

I hope you are trolling. Warriors F1 skills are some of the best In game mechanics when traited for. Cleansing ire allows warriors to remove an impressive amount of condi very quickly while doing damage. Give thieves eviscerates and the longbow fire field and warriors can have steal

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dagraan.2854:

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

I hope you are trolling. Warriors F1 skills are some of the best In game mechanics when traited for. Cleansing ire allows warriors to remove an impressive amount of condi very quickly while doing damage. Give thieves eviscerates and the longbow fire field and warriors can have steal

impressive, you mean 1 condi every 8 second, 2 at max? thieves don’t need eviscerates, i can backstab for 7-10k easy…thats on 4 sec CD..

what kind of noob thief are you to trade off steal, steal is the main feature of thief…any good thief would not want it gone….can’t you see that steal plays a huge part in any decent thief gameplay…

Am I the only one who uses axe 5 to proc bleeds with Precise Strikes after chaining it with axe 4 for fury? I could care less about the damage, because I use offhand axe as a utility, as most offhand weapons are used.

EDIT: back on topic, I’ve been saying for ages that axe 5 needs a projectile reflect.

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dagraan.2854:

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

I hope you are trolling. Warriors F1 skills are some of the best In game mechanics when traited for. Cleansing ire allows warriors to remove an impressive amount of condi very quickly while doing damage. Give thieves eviscerates and the longbow fire field and warriors can have steal

How does that response make any sense in your head?

“The things thieves steal are better than what those classes can do.”
“Are you trolling? Warrior F1’s OP.”

wat?

They steal a 4 second daze from Guards, and we don’t even have daze…I think you’ll be alright…lulz.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Am I the only one who uses axe 5 to proc bleeds with Precise Strikes after chaining it with axe 4 for fury? I could care less about the damage, because I use offhand axe as a utility, as most offhand weapons are used.

EDIT: back on topic, I’ve been saying for ages that axe 5 needs a projectile reflect.

Yes, you probably are. Why? Because axe is primarily a power weapon. Assume you have a 100% chance crit with fury, thus a 33% bleed per hit. On average, you’ll stack 5 bleeds in 3 and 1/2 seconds from Axe 5. You’ll need heavy investment in precision.

Now look at Sword auto, with 2 bleeds per full chain. The chain speed is 1/2, 1/2 and 1/4. You’ll end up stacking 5 bleeds in 3 seconds. The difference is, you need 0 precision, so you can invest that 1200 precision into condi damage instead, which makes your bleed ticks absolutely brutal,

For WvW:

Even if axe 5 gets a projectile reflect, its still trash damage for a channeled ability that basically forces you to burn a preemptive stability CD just to do any meaningful dmg, and the damage itself is trash unless a group of 5 people stand still tanking the dmg.

Axe 4 is mostly redundant on SoR, especially if you run signet CD, boon duration bonus or fury on immob.

Axe 2 sucks.

Axe 1 chain has way too much dmg backloaded onto the last strike. No competent player is going to stand still and let you hit them for a 6th autoattack.

Axe offers no mobility, except a tiny leap from eviscerate.

The damage spike from eviscerate doesn’t compensate for all of its shortcomings as a weapon. If you want to spike dmg, get rifle and learn to play zerker war. If you need AoE dmg, hammer + unsuspecting foe outdamages axe by a mile and a half AND brings utility to the table.

Player Character.9467:

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dagraan.2854:

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

I hope you are trolling. Warriors F1 skills are some of the best In game mechanics when traited for. Cleansing ire allows warriors to remove an impressive amount of condi very quickly while doing damage. Give thieves eviscerates and the longbow fire field and warriors can have steal

How does that response make any sense in your head?

“The things thieves steal are better than what those classes can do.”
“Are you trolling? Warrior F1’s OP.”

wat?

thieves can’t steal the classes actual f1 skills im talking about the class specific steals they do.
if you weren’t so busy face pounding the keyboard to win every fight with some cheeze build you’d notice that.

the warrior steal does more than the actual warrior ability, the mesmer steal is lyssa runes elite proc, engies steal is gunk that does a fair bit of damage and acts as a confusion field and like most thieves will give chaos armor when they spam 2 going through it.
necros steal is a aoe 3 second fear, that a necro doesn’t have.
thief stealing from other thieves is a on demand 3 second stealth that costs nothing.
guardians get a stun as already stated and eles get a 3 second chill.

not to mention they can steal a 3 second invul skill from trash mobs.
and the warriors f1 skill isnt as good as you think.

Dagraan.2854:

Player Character.9467:

pantsforbirds.9032:

Dagraan.2854:

i think what needs to be done here is a nerf to the thieves F1 skills, since they still maintain their god like status.

and since their f1 skills are better than most of the classes they steal them from.

I hope you are trolling. Warriors F1 skills are some of the best In game mechanics when traited for. Cleansing ire allows warriors to remove an impressive amount of condi very quickly while doing damage. Give thieves eviscerates and the longbow fire field and warriors can have steal

How does that response make any sense in your head?

“The things thieves steal are better than what those classes can do.”
“Are you trolling? Warrior F1’s OP.”

wat?

thieves can’t steal the classes actual f1 skills im talking about the class specific steals they do.
if you weren’t so busy face pounding the keyboard to win every fight with some cheeze build you’d notice that.

the warrior steal does more than the actual warrior ability, the mesmer steal is lyssa runes elite proc, engies steal is gunk that does a fair bit of damage and acts as a confusion field and like most thieves will give chaos armor when they spam 2 going through it.
necros steal is a aoe 3 second fear, that a necro doesn’t have.
thief stealing from other thieves is a on demand 3 second stealth that costs nothing.
guardians get a stun as already stated and eles get a 3 second chill.

not to mention they can steal a 3 second invul skill from trash mobs.
and the warriors f1 skill isnt as good as you think.

wat?

Player Character.9467:

wat?

Seconded.

But seriously, I think this is more a post about Axe skills than comparing our classes F1 buttons.

I always laugh when I see a fellow warrior using offhand axe.

Abhor.5602:

I always laugh when I see a fellow warrior using offhand axe.

A weapon like offhand axe exits for warrior? I dindt know dat ; o <im noob>

Thieves hits harder and reflect projectles.
For long time Anet knows that Warrior Axe needs some buff and rework.

Well.. we play the game with what they give us end atm. Hammer is the best option
I love play axes … but they just sucks atm
everyone ask why so many hammer warriors…well we don’t have many options do we…
….Fix the axes end i gladly play them
Also GS F1 need rework us well

Thieves are better? BS, a thief does not have a 16K+ eviscerate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r4E9N50lTs

Zee.1294:

Also GS F1 need rework us well

If olny that..

Rigel.3092:

Thieves are better? BS, a thief does not have a 16K+ eviscerate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r4E9N50lTs

I should have wrote that different, offhand axe.

Not sure if you guys knew this or not, but the stolen ability a thief gets is meant to be a counter to the class they stole it from.

Ever reflected a kill shot? Its fun :P

Maesk.8753:

Not sure if you guys knew this or not, but the stolen ability a thief gets is meant to be a counter to the class they stole it from.

Ever reflected a kill shot? Its fun :P

Doesn’t a theif stealing from ranger create a Healing tree sead pod?
How does a small AoE heal counter a ranger? ;3

Rigel.3092:

Thieves are better? BS, a thief does not have a 16K+ eviscerate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r4E9N50lTs

You’re right, a thief would just have a 12k backstab on the same target.

From stealth.

Easily doable every 5 seconds instead of 7.75.

Zach.3264:

Maesk.8753:

Not sure if you guys knew this or not, but the stolen ability a thief gets is meant to be a counter to the class they stole it from.

Ever reflected a kill shot? Its fun :P

Doesn’t a theif stealing from ranger create a Healing tree sead pod?
How does a small AoE heal counter a ranger? ;3

Its an AOE condi cleanse.

Some other examples are the goop stuff from engies, since it loads them up with condi which they cant clear that well. The chill from eles messes with their atunement swaps (if you use it after water).

They may not be direct counters, but they definitely aid in fighting the class.

I have both warrior and thief and yes warriors ofhand axe is bad and needs to be improved or reworked but no thiefs Steal Whirling Axe does not need change. Thief is supposed to steal enemy ability and use them effectively against them. So stolen ability has to be effective otherwise it would invalidate its purpose.

Zach.3264:

Maesk.8753:

Not sure if you guys knew this or not, but the stolen ability a thief gets is meant to be a counter to the class they stole it from.

Ever reflected a kill shot? Its fun :P

Doesn’t a theif stealing from ranger create a Healing tree sead pod?
How does a small AoE heal counter a ranger? ;3

Heartseeker + Healing tree = heal by leap finisher + heal by tree itself + heal by signet malice + …
Thieves refil all health with that tree.

deathTouch.9706:

It’s gonna need a major overhaul to fix it’s issues.

even though this forum is about how axe 5 sucks, this quote pretty much sums up all of the aspects of PvP, and a good majority of PvE

Whirling Axe- animation: a large spinning circle closely confined.
Description: Spin and attack nearby foes. You can move while spinning. 3+1/4 duration in seconds
Damage: 219
Number of Attacks: 15
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 1200 (related to whirl finisher)

Dagger Storm- animation: thin circle with thin circles flying out.
Spin around, reflecting projectiles and throwing daggers that cripple and bleed nearby foes. You can move while spinning.
Damage:510
Stability: 8s (actually lasts until you drop Dagger Storm, personal input)
Bleeding 7s: 677 damage
Cripple: 2+1/2 duration seconds
Dagger Storm Duration: 8 seconds
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 900

So…WA does not reflect and as far as I know never has or will. Dagger storm reflects and makes as many visual displays to alert as I can tell- ranging from icon on player using it to making them spin and throw things at you while having a black ring. The only thing WA thief does better than WA war is that thieves trait to dps, wars trait to dps and otherwise so we do more dps always. Stack a thief against a war similarly geared/traited and the result is the same dps on both.

I do agree that wars need a better reflect than traiting 10 into 3rd line for blocking gives reflect… far too subjective.

Yeah, not only are our axes worse but we dont have as much hp as thiefs and we cant go invisible. I think next patch we should get an extra 10k hp buff and be given stealth abilities, this will make the warrior good as its very hard class to play at the moment