Guild Wars 2

Dear Devs,
As I’m sure you’re aware there’s a fairly decent mention of warriors being “vanilla” in their build options, such as most players really only find some kind of success in PvP based off a variation of setting up HB. After becoming disillusioned with the way the warrior class plays with various other weapon setups (and even the whole HB emphasis on GS itself) I started really diving into other classes in search of that melee class that would give me the warrior “feel” I was missing on my actual warrior.

I have since fallen in love with rangers. Hear me out before the ranger camp calls me insane because yes I know there are issues with the class, and most ranged rangers would kill for the rifle.

Anyways, I started running a melee only “warrior” style build on my ranger in SPvP 5’s and free tourney’s using GS + Sword/Dagger, Trolls ungent, rampage as one elite, signet of renewal, lightning reflexes and 3rd utility of choice using a 20/0/30/20/0 build with a mix of P/V/T and Berserker gear.

I urge you to take a look at the synergy of the abilities with the sword for instance. The primary (1) chain applies a cripple, flows at a good speed, hits for a decent amount and also moves into the target a bit in order to stay on target. The 2nd ability gives both movement with creative use of turning (flip 180 to leap the direction you want, flip back 180 to leap forward again) along with an evasion and a gap closer + cripple. Ability 3 gives an evading attack along with applying poison to hinder healing from the opponent.

Again the dagger 4 provides an evading attack with another poison application and the 5 is a ranged cripple.

The GS has a nice gap closer which actually WORKS (sorry, gotta pick on you about the warrior GS 5 pathing issues here :P), a hard hitting 2 which also applies bleeds (good conal based aoe as well), a BLOCK which provides ranged protection while being available as a ranged snare like the current warrior 4 attack, and an interrupt/stun on the 5. The primary attack also provides an evade in the chain which helps mitigate damage as well.

The point being that with that specific setup it’s a very “bunker with a bite” melee build that flows together smoothly while also providing a very respectable amount of utility, passive condi removal right up there with the other classes (ele/guard etc) and really has a wonderful ceiling for improving skilled plays. Because of the mitigation, movement, sustained healing/condi removal I’ve been able to almost indefinately sustain melee combat without resetting, and actually looked for 1v3 situations while getting in kills because the damage spikes are really respectable when combined with poison application. In short I feel like a warrior that can hang with some of the other classes notable for their 1vX capabilities (d/d ele, mesmer, thieves). It’s awesome and I commend whomever designed the ranger melee setup.

• As a bonus the longbow/shortbow can be utilized without respecc’ing a single thing for WvW scenarios (siege/defense) which is very nice to have access to.

I know it’s probably too late this far into the game to do anything about it, but if you do ever revisit the warrior class for an overhaul or tweaking I urge you to look at the beautiful setups and synergies you’ve accomplished with a few other class build options such as the melee ranger. I’m hooked and I don’t think I can go back to my warrior again after finding this build.

I hope this doesn’t offend, just trying to offer a perspective from an avid melee “warrior” enthusiast that discovered that “feel” somewhere else.

I am not sure what do you want to change for warriors. Currently, a warrior can do burst damage using GS. It can tank by using mace/shield, sword/shield. It can do some seriously bleeding condition damage with sword/rifle. It can do Melee AOE and CC with hammer, It can do scary long range damage with rifle, and it can do decent range AOE with Longbow, finally it can be support with banner/shout. Warrior by far it is the most well-round profession i’ve seem.

Freezenox.8534:

I am not sure what do you want to change for warriors. Currently, a warrior can do burst damage using GS. It can tank by using mace/shield, sword/shield. It can do some seriously bleeding condition damage with sword/rifle. It can do Melee AOE and CC with hammer, It can do scary long range damage with rifle, and it can do decent range AOE with Longbow, finally it can be support with banner/shout. Warrior by far it is the most well-round profession i’ve seem.

For PvE, sure.

For competitive PvP viable builds though there’s really only warriors rocking GS variations. It provides damage, an evade, the mobility etc needed. Take your sword/x+rifle bleed build
How many of those do you see getting play in tourney’s? It has very little synergy. That’s really all my post was about, the synergy and flow of the design. Sword/Sword for instance has

• Primary bleedx2 and a basic 3 person conal final attack with no finisher
• leap – That’s it, nothing else attached
• Cripple – That’s it, nothing else attached
• Ranged bleed stacker with a clunky “click again for a little extra damage if you time it right”
• A block that also stacks bleeds

Mind you bleeds cap at 25 so if there’s a necro, ranger, thief, ele, or engi around you’re sitting at cap and really just doing middling direct damage

My sword/dagger setup has

• Primary attack with a cripple and heartseeker-esque tracking on kiting target
• Attack that then ‘evades’ backwards in a leap
  2ndary function of leaping attack + cripple
• Evading 2 hit attack which applies poison
• Evading attack which applies poison
• Ranged cripple + bleed

It flows and synnergizes far better. 3 evades, 2 poisons, 3 cripples (1 ranged), Bleed attack, leap. Compared to the warriors 1 leap, 1 block, 1 cripple, 3 bleeds (1 ranged).

This isn’t accounting for things such as passive condi removal, which a warrior has to use active abilities for + a specific sigil setup, or spec for warhorn, or use a sigil for. Regen that scales far better with level (vs warrior healing signet which is pretty pooey).
Healing signet should really have a remove 1 condition every 10 seconds feature baked into it if they don’t buff the healing of it to put it in line with most every other classes passive condi removal capabilities. Stuff like that.

I’m not sure I’m articulating my point well, but does this make more sense at all?

So, you ran greatsword on warrior, didn’t like how the greatsword played, and thus called it quits for the warrior? All this based on the “popular” opinion that greatsword is the only good weapon because of HB?

The greatsword warriors are only popular because it’s a one-trick-pony build that’s mind-numbingly easy to run, so all the moronic sheep run it. I never use greatsword on my warrior, as I find it absolutely dull and the lack of CC/skill variety makes it unappealing for someone looking to actually be a credit to the people around them.

Even a basic skimming over of the warrior traits should have revealed a class that is extremely versatile if you had the cognitive ability to think for yourself and develop your own playstyle beyond the “Flavor of the Month” build. To each his own, I guess.

Raynor.1973:

So, you ran greatsword on warrior, didn’t like how the greatsword played, and thus called it quits for the warrior? All this based on the “popular” opinion that greatsword is the only good weapon because of HB?

Um, not at all. A basic search for posts, or even random presence on these forums since launch would show that I’ve been running a warrior since BW3 weighing in on various traits, weapons and build setups. I mentioned the GS because when you DO find warriors competiting in the tourney scene it’s almost always a GS based build because after going through it all it really does provide the best functionality for competitive PvP with the mobility + burst potential it offers.

Nice flaming rant though without any actual reason for it. Always nice to see blind misplaced aggression.

Braxxus.2904:

Freezenox.8534:

I am not sure what do you want to change for warriors. Currently, a warrior can do burst damage using GS. It can tank by using mace/shield, sword/shield. It can do some seriously bleeding condition damage with sword/rifle. It can do Melee AOE and CC with hammer, It can do scary long range damage with rifle, and it can do decent range AOE with Longbow, finally it can be support with banner/shout. Warrior by far it is the most well-round profession i’ve seem.

For PvE, sure.

For competitive PvP viable builds though there’s really only warriors rocking GS variations. It provides damage, an evade, the mobility etc needed. Take your sword/x+rifle bleed build
How many of those do you see getting play in tourney’s? It has very little synergy. That’s really all my post was about, the synergy and flow of the design. Sword/Sword for instance has

• Primary bleedx2 and a basic 3 person conal final attack with no finisher
• leap – That’s it, nothing else attached
• Cripple – That’s it, nothing else attached
• Ranged bleed stacker with a clunky “click again for a little extra damage if you time it right”
• A block that also stacks bleeds

Mind you bleeds cap at 25 so if there’s a necro, ranger, thief, ele, or engi around you’re sitting at cap and really just doing middling direct damage

My sword/dagger setup has

• Primary attack with a cripple and heartseeker-esque tracking on kiting target
• Attack that then ‘evades’ backwards in a leap
  2ndary function of leaping attack + cripple
• Evading 2 hit attack which applies poison
• Evading attack which applies poison
• Ranged cripple + bleed

It flows and synnergizes far better. 3 evades, 2 poisons, 3 cripples (1 ranged), Bleed attack, leap. Compared to the warriors 1 leap, 1 block, 1 cripple, 3 bleeds (1 ranged).

This isn’t accounting for things such as passive condi removal, which a warrior has to use active abilities for + a specific sigil setup, or spec for warhorn, or use a sigil for. Regen that scales far better with level (vs warrior healing signet which is pretty pooey).
Healing signet should really have a remove 1 condition every 10 seconds feature baked into it if they don’t buff the healing of it to put it in line with most every other classes passive condi removal capabilities. Stuff like that.

I’m not sure I’m articulating my point well, but does this make more sense at all?

Ranger’s sword and warriors sword served different purpose. Sword on ranger provide evasion ability to help the lack of hp pool compare to war. Warrior’s sword provide mobility and CC enemy while using bleeding to soft up heavy armor enemy. I don’t use Sword/Sword i use sword/shield instead combine with leg specialize trait. 1 stun, 2 immobilize, 3 sec blocks make my war being able to survive burst damage while lock down the enemy from running away. Also, the bleeding from sword doesn’t last that long, it is suppose to do massive condition damage in a short time. so as long as you are 1v1 or 2v1, the bleeding should not hit the cap. if it is 3v1 and 4v1, that one person is mostly going to die by ganking so the bleeding cap won’t make that much difference. You also forgot one of the best weapon warrior has, and that is Hammer. the CC abilities from War’s hammer is far superior from ranger. 1 AOE range cripple (immobilize if trait), 1 knockback, 1 knockdown, 1 stun. With the mix of stun/kd and condition snare, you can shutdown a player pretty well.

Of course as you mention, ranger has better healing skills and ability to dodge and evade attack, and some slight better condition removal. Ranger has 2 skills that can remove condition without trait, 1 which remove all condition. Warrior has the same number condition removal skill but the cd is like half shorter, but they have higher hp to make up with that.

Ranger and warrior has different melee style and both have different strength. I feel like you just under look the pro of warriors. To me warriors has a lot of potential in pvp, and it just majority of people play warriors like thief and ignore the other potential roles of warrior.

Braxxus.2904:

Dear Devs,
As I’m sure you’re aware there’s a fairly decent mention of warriors being “vanilla” in their build options, such as most players really only find some kind of success in PvP based off a variation of setting up HB. After becoming disillusioned with the way the warrior class plays with various other weapon setups (and even the whole HB emphasis on GS itself) I started really diving into other classes in search of that melee class that would give me the warrior “feel” I was missing on my actual warrior.

I have since fallen in love with rangers. Hear me out before the ranger camp calls me insane because yes I know there are issues with the class, and most ranged rangers would kill for the rifle.

Anyways, I started running a melee only “warrior” style build on my ranger in SPvP 5’s and free tourney’s using GS + Sword/Dagger, Trolls ungent, rampage as one elite, signet of renewal, lightning reflexes and 3rd utility of choice using a 20/0/30/20/0 build with a mix of P/V/T and Berserker gear.

I urge you to take a look at the synergy of the abilities with the sword for instance. The primary (1) chain applies a cripple, flows at a good speed, hits for a decent amount and also moves into the target a bit in order to stay on target. The 2nd ability gives both movement with creative use of turning (flip 180 to leap the direction you want, flip back 180 to leap forward again) along with an evasion and a gap closer + cripple. Ability 3 gives an evading attack along with applying poison to hinder healing from the opponent.

Again the dagger 4 provides an evading attack with another poison application and the 5 is a ranged cripple.

The GS has a nice gap closer which actually WORKS (sorry, gotta pick on you about the warrior GS 5 pathing issues here :P), a hard hitting 2 which also applies bleeds (good conal based aoe as well), a BLOCK which provides ranged protection while being available as a ranged snare like the current warrior 4 attack, and an interrupt/stun on the 5. The primary attack also provides an evade in the chain which helps mitigate damage as well.

The point being that with that specific setup it’s a very “bunker with a bite” melee build that flows together smoothly while also providing a very respectable amount of utility, passive condi removal right up there with the other classes (ele/guard etc) and really has a wonderful ceiling for improving skilled plays. Because of the mitigation, movement, sustained healing/condi removal I’ve been able to almost indefinately sustain melee combat without resetting, and actually looked for 1v3 situations while getting in kills because the damage spikes are really respectable when combined with poison application. In short I feel like a warrior that can hang with some of the other classes notable for their 1vX capabilities (d/d ele, mesmer, thieves). It’s awesome and I commend whomever designed the ranger melee setup.

• As a bonus the longbow/shortbow can be utilized without respecc’ing a single thing for WvW scenarios (siege/defense) which is very nice to have access to.

I know it’s probably too late this far into the game to do anything about it, but if you do ever revisit the warrior class for an overhaul or tweaking I urge you to look at the beautiful setups and synergies you’ve accomplished with a few other class build options such as the melee ranger. I’m hooked and I don’t think I can go back to my warrior again after finding this build.

I hope this doesn’t offend, just trying to offer a perspective from an avid melee “warrior” enthusiast that discovered that “feel” somewhere else.

I somewhat agree with this, before Anet buff ranger greatsword, my ranger alt already running around with greatsword and traps. I like ranger greatsword chain 1 and swoop a lot and i do hope warrior GS got swap skill 1 and charge with ranger GS skill 1 and swoop, well said.

Braxxus.2904:

Nice flaming rant though without any actual reason for it. Always nice to see blind misplaced aggression.

Always nice to see blind uneducated opinions from someone that’s apparently so well versed on the matter. Hard to take a guy complaining about the warrior and using the greatsword anywhere in the argument seriously. Especially when that guy fails to realize that literally every other weapon combination available to the warrior gives them far more to work with, ignores this fact, then runs off and claims the ranger weapons have more skill synergy while comparing them to – you guessed it! – the greatsword.

I’m sorry the warrior ain’t up your alley, but your argument as to why was very much the same crap we’ve seen since launch. Don’t let this community’s hard-on for a single weapon ruin the class for you.

Though I would like to apologize for my earlier toxicity. You can only read so many complaints about the greatsword while the entire community ignores every other weapon before you want to punch a puppy.

Is this about feel, or top-tier sPvP viable builds? For the Ranger build, is it top-tier PvP viable? If not, then even the most well-flowing set-ups can apparently fall short of viability.

However, if we’re just talking about feel, GS/Hammer is exactly how I want my warrior to feel. No smoke, no mirrors, just come and get me. No “easy outs”, but good planning and I can still escape most classes in most situation (or if a Thief chases too far, turn around and paste him into the earth).

This is of course WvW, but from a feel perspective, I actually couldn’t be happier. I don’t feel like I have gimmicky escape or mitigation mechanisms, and because of that, I do feel like I actually have to read my opponent and legitimately play well in order to see good results. Sure, some people melt to basic combos, but the ones that don’t provide a very engaging experience for me, from anticipating stealth movements to coordinating moves two or more steps ahead. When everything flows according to plan, it’s magical amounts of pressure and control.

That’s just me, though. I wouldn’t mind if they made some changes or tried to create a better flow, but I’d be a liar if I said I didn’t really enjoy the playstyle I’ve found.
.
Also, Death from Above feels incredible as well in WvW. Fun fact: it isn’t limited to 5 targets like other AoEs.

Raynor.1973:

ranger weapons have more skill synergy while comparing them to – you guessed it! – the greatsword.

Did you actually read it? Because everything in your post just screams of unfounded hatemongering, frothing at the mouth venom for absolutely no reason. The funny thing is I did a comparision ability by ability between ranger sword/dagger and warrior sword/sword.

Not greatsword. In fact I started off talking about the moves of the sword and only brought up the ranger GS when talking about specific abilities in the OP, not really about the warrior one. How the ranger GS flows together well.

I think in your desire to go all aggro on people you are failing to actually read what’s written.

@Cog:
It’s not so much about the warrior GS, I mentioned that the warrior GS is extremely viable… I just don’t like the whole “set up for HB” playstyle of it. I’m really talking more about the feel of the other warrior weapons that are underperforming such as warrior sword (both MH and offhand) for example. The other poster above talking about the merits of the sword for a warrior are somewhat true, remember I was running sword/x + longbow in WvW for the past 30+ days or so. The real point though is that the sword leap for instance is just that. Just a leap. No other function. Just a leap.

Ranger leap, is a double leap for starters which gives nifty movement plays, applies cripple. Warrior sword cripple is just that. Just a cripple. So really you have 2 ability slots just to get the same functionality out of 1 from the ranger sword. Ranger now gets an evade+poison attack where the warrior sword has that missing ability from seperating the leap + cripple like it does. So when you play sword it’s basically auto attacking like it’s going out of style until you can flurry for the immobilize. Ironically I missed the immobilized until I realized I could just use a hound and apply a cone-based immobilize on demand through the pet F2 skill every 8 seconds so it’s not like that’s a missing feature.

I dunno man, there’s just something about how after playing other classes in melee and noticing they synergy in their weapon moves (leap+cripple on the same ability, evade+condi, weakness+vigor, etc) along with traits and utilities:
Passive condi removal vs having to completely spec/gear for it on active use. A shout that clears 1 condi vs 3+damage to enemy for instance, etc. It just bugs me that much of the warrior traits/utilities/abilities are very much “stock” versions while the other class mirror abilities seem like the luxury/upgraded models.

Braxxus.2904:

It just bugs me that much of the warrior traits/utilities/abilities are very much “stock” versions while the other class mirror abilities seem like the luxury/upgraded models.

So true! Warriors are like pawns in Chess.

Just compare warriors unique class mechanics to the other professions. Warrior is ment to be a master of weapons. We can use the most weapons from all professions. And thats it. When it comes to combat we can carry 2 weapons sets like everyone else. We have 10s cd on weapon swap like anyone else (trait is bugged since release). We cannot switch weapons from inventory in combat like anyone else.

So whats the whole deal of being the master of weapons? At the end of the day other professions run around with stealth, steal, minions, blink, bunker builds, pets, traps, walls and all we have is a bag full of unused weapons. LOL

This exact thought popped into my head while I was playing EVE. Not about ranger, but about synergy. Only the greatsword really flows nicely, especially when combined with x/shield.

PvE Heroes and WvW zerglings pick up the class and think how great it is. However, anyone that does their unbiased testing in SPvP knows how flawed and behind the class is. Building/tweaking warrior so much just lead me to one simple conclusion in the end. We just don’t have it. Synergy is what it all comes down to in the end. The bad traits, weapon designs, and etc all lead to warrior having bad synergy.

If you look at EVERY other classes weapons, utilities, and traits you can see how everything just flows nicely. You’re not forced to pretend your build is viable just because you can beat the brainless AI or because the zerg covers your kitten . It’s actually useful and works in a contained testing environment(i.e. S/TPvP).

The fact that a Dev couldn’t hold back his laughter, while talking about warrior, says a lot to me. Not that I needed him to, as I have already put my own work in. Now note, he laughed about GS and that’s our best weapon overall… Everything else is just “ARGGH me smash 1 until keyboard breaks!” No other weapon, for warrior, is as well put together as a greatsword. We are versatile in weapons yet EVERY other class use their weapons more effectively/fluently… We have the most armour and hp yet ALL other classes have better bunkering potential.

Warrior is a joke and should be laughed at. That was one of my first posts on these forums and now I see I’m sharing that laugh with Anet. When I come back to playing GW2 more heavily, I’ll probably be getting rid of my warrior as well. Anet balancing philosophy has me doubting that the much needed improvements will happen(anytime soon). Warrior will probably still be struggling to compete. Being the greatest 7/10 one can be.

[quote=986069;Akumu.7238:
The fact that a Dev couldn’t hold back his laughter, while talking about warrior, says a lot to me. Now note, he laughed about GS and that’s our best weapon overall…[/quote]

Yeah, this part of the interview really stuck with me as well. I had my feelings about the warrior class, got repeatedly told to stfu by a few repeat “L2P” kittens whenever I would bring up something seeming sub-par about the class but to have the Dev AND the “pro” players laughing at, and practically mocking the class for it’s poor capabilities in pvp irked the living hell out of me.