Trying to make hammer work in roaming wvw

Trying to make hammer work in roaming wvw

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Posted by: Wilax.2549

Wilax.2549

Hi guys,

I’m probably flogging a dead horse here – but I’m trying to make hammer work and I’m not having much luck.

Currently running m/s with gs in spvp and doing well with that – tons of survivability and damage, however I want to mix it up with hammer/gs in wvw.

I’ve seen Thunder King wreck with his hammer build and its inspired me to play it more and roam. However I’m not doing well at all.

To be fair I’m only running exotics and I have very limited experience in wvw and I’m finding it very different to spvp.

This is my current build: Here, obviously unfinished but ascended gear can’t be that much of an improvement right?

I know you guys can’t help much without seeing me in action but any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

(edited by Wilax.2549)

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

My number one tip would be to drop hammer.
Don’t use it in PvP.
Don’t use it in WvW.
Don’T use in PvE.
Don’t use it in Fractals.
Don’t use in Raids.

Anet wanted to “separate the damage from the control.” After that hammer became inefficient in just about every conceivable way. It has a slow response time. A F! berserker burst that is subpar. A burst skill that is overtly animated and cannot apply consistent damage to keep an opponent on the back foot.

To be dead honest, the last time i faced a hammer warrior was years ago. All I had to do was wait for the swap to hammer before I was able to down them before they could swap back…that is how magnificently terrible a weapon it has become.

It is sad considering in years gone by Hambow, Hammer Greatsword were extremely viable…now hammer is the weapon of choice for players who wish to defeat themselves before they’ve even encountered another player.

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

Saddly, CntrlAltDefeat is correct. Hammer should be fun, but over time it has become useless. There has been no word from anet about fixing the problems with he weapon. sadly the weapon does not need damage, but it does need the massive delay on skills, and the delay bug on the burst to be fixed.

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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hammer was a thing before HoT.
@ Emkelly, it does need damage. The Hammer is slow, and nerfed in dps, how can you say it doesnt need damage

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(edited by Hoaxintelligence.4628)

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

Oh yes, you make a good point/ but the reason Hammer could get by without damage if you fixed speed issues is Condition damage from Distracting Strikes and body blow. don’t get me wrong, damage would be very much appreciated, but the hammer could get by without it if i could Earthshaker> Backbreaker> Staggering blow, reliably. as it stands if you try Earthshaker, even if they do not break the stun (assuming you hit because the dang skill bugs out and takes about 1.5 seconds to go off) they will not remain stunned long enough to get off Backbreaker. THAT above all else needs to be fixed before we even think about adding in damage. a weapon is of no use if you cannot use it’s skills to any effect.

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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

All of these people saying hammer doesnt work anymore is utter bs. If you’re a good warrior you can still make it work quite decently. Ofc sets such as mace/shield and axe/shield will be better , but that does not mean hammer can’t work anymore.

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

Mike, you sound like a great guy, but Hammer does have a problem with skill delay and power. Earthshaker is suposed to have a 3/4 second cast time, but instead you often stand still for 3/4 a second, then leap at your target destination for 3/4 of a second. That’s 6/4 of a second, or 1 1/2 second cast time. Not to mention the after cast which while i don’t know what it is, still seems to be very long unless it just seems that way because Backbraker has such a long wind up.

The weapon has problems, massive, horrible problems. there was a time when hammer was not only very fun, but awesome, but right now it is not. On top of all of it’s problems the entire weapon is negated by stability. and there is a whole hell of a lot more stability going around than there used to be.

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Posted by: Fat Disgrace.4275

Fat Disgrace.4275

It’s only used for warrior zergling now. 2/3 hammer warriors spamming berserker f1 is as useful as it gets.

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

stability

/topic

When Anet is handing out stability + spammable blocks and blinds like candy, a slow but hard hitting weapon like Hammer becomes obsolete. And that’s what happened.

Saying a good Warrior can make Hammer work is dumb. Because a less then mediocre Revenant, Dragon kitten, Thief, Chronomancer, Tempest, Scrapper and Druid will wipe the floor with it. Hell, even a half decent Necromancer laughs at hammer now, where they used to be weak to CC.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Greatsword/Hammer used to be the default weapon set to use in WvW roaming up until about a year or so ago. Now Hammer is a pale reflection of its former self.

Your typical average gamer -
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Posted by: Invictorum.7643

Invictorum.7643

Greatsword/Hammer used to be the default weapon set to use in WvW roaming up until about a year or so ago. Now Hammer is a pale reflection of its former self.

Oh the old days of the Juggernaught build. I miss that build sometimes. It was always kind of funny to use the hammer burst to stop an entire group long enough for some buddies to catch up to me.

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Posted by: Wilax.2549

Wilax.2549

I appreciate the replies, very clear information displayed – thank you. It’s sad that Hammer is so far gone, especially when gw2 is a game where you can ‘play your way’ and not blindly follow the ‘meta’. Granted some builds are better than others as that is true in life, but it’s a shame that Hammer is so nonviable that one can’t use it effectively. Back to s/a/sh & gs. Thanks guys

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Posted by: Dand.8231

Dand.8231

All of these people saying hammer doesnt work anymore is utter bs. If you’re a good warrior you can still make it work quite decently. Ofc sets such as mace/shield and axe/shield will be better , but that does not mean hammer can’t work anymore.

Think of it like a math equation. For example: player skill x build viability = results

So a MLG Pro warrior (10) using a meta build (10) will see 100% results in theory. 10×10=100.

Now consider the same warrior using a subpar weapon such as hammer (I’d rate it at 4, maybe 5 tops). 10×5=50%

Now consider a Rev whos just decent (maybe a 7) but using a meta build(10): 7×10=70%

So that skill 7 rev is gonna rofl stomp the MLG war cause hes using a subpar weapon.

So why does hammer fail so much?
Well PvE is all about damage, and hammer is NOT a damage weapon, so lets focus on control areas of the game, PvP/WvW:

1. Blinds + Blocks are everywhere, and Hammer is slow. I’ve started earthshaker and been blinded AFTER starting the move but BEFORE the hit. And missing a burst in PvP/WvW roaming = dead warrior.

2. Mastery trait competes with two other MUCH better traits.

3. Buggy and inconsistent. Earthshaker NEVER goes off the same way twice. Sometimes it goes off right away, other times it takes 1.5 seconds before it even STARTS the move. I’ve actually centered a burst on a foe, and had them LITERALLY RUN OUT OF THE AOE RANGE before the move finally executed, smashing an empty area and making me look foolish.

4. Lackluster skills and damage.
*1 Auto Chain – does mediocre damage and has nothing attached to it whatsoever. Compare to scrapper hammer, scapper auto chain is dmg+might, dmg+vul, dmg+might+vul. Warrior hammer is dmg, dmg, dmg…..woo.
*2 Fierce Blow – A slow windup move and huge telegraph, and not even a big deal to land
*3 Hammer Shock – This move should be okay as it, except so many builds have ways to cleanse or outright ignore cripple (movement skill spam) that it’s not useful.
*4 Staggering Blow – Good on paper but meh in practice. It doesn’t move foes far enough to be useful for any area control, the telegraph is such that it’s easily dodged or just outright missed to blind spam, stability power creep is everywhere nowadays, and even when it does land fully, it’s short enough that it doesn’t set the warrior up to do much else anyway.
*5 Backbreaker – Long cooldown, single target, short range, huge telegraph. If you hit someone with this, they were probably AFK.

*F1 Earthshaker – HIGHLY telegraphed, and inconsistent execution and delay times. The long windup also makes it ESPECIALLY vulnerable to the blinds being spammed everywhere. The hit is also smaller than the AOE marker indicates. Did I mention it STILL, after 4 years, misses targets on uneven ground like stairs and ramps?
*Zerk Rupturing Smash – Similar to earthshaker but only hits in a frontal cone, often missing enemies on top of you somehow, and is bad even if it does land.

(edited by Dand.8231)

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

^ this. all of this

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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

i dont get why so many of you feel like saying blind is an obstacle. Zerker stance when you burst and that problem is fixed 70% of the time. And stabillity can be played around unless you’re fighting a rev traited for it or another warrior. And Cygnus the only two things from the list of classes you named that can actually counter hammer are Revenant and DH. The rest can easilly be played around. especially tempest , Chrono , and Scrapper just by swapping traits around.

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: Dipdoo.4861

Dipdoo.4861

I came back to the game recently after a break and decided to screw around with hammer.
So far I can feel it’s not as good as other options, but it does work if used right. I’ve kept a good 65-ish% win rate when solo roaming. It works best with a group of friends though, you slap them around and they pound them into the dirt, it’s worked wonders for me and my little group, but I’ve gotten really good at using hammer, (and I’m probably being carried)
There is better, but hammer can work when used very well against the right opponents. A ranger with even half a brain will put you down with no problem.

Big Cat Dipdoo ~ Warrior, Caeda Ripstep ~ Revenant, Braum Has Arrived ~ Guardian [SQD]
“It’s time to Rim Ram their Jim Jams.”

(edited by Dipdoo.4861)

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

i dont get why so many of you feel like saying blind is an obstacle. Zerker stance when you burst and that problem is fixed 70% of the time. And stabillity can be played around unless you’re fighting a rev traited for it or another warrior. And Cygnus the only two things from the list of classes you named that can actually counter hammer are Revenant and DH. The rest can easilly be played around. especially tempest , Chrono , and Scrapper just by swapping traits around.

How long does Zerker Stance last? WvW is a big place, and warrior is an easily kited class. When your stance runs out, your hammer becomes useless against a foe with blinds.

Sure you can play around stability on classes that aren’t War/Rev. But most classes have a lot of it, and then they still have blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, stuns of their own to counter yours, and when all else fails, they port away or stealth up to reset their cooldowns. Especially Tempest, Chrono and Scrapper.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

i dont get why so many of you feel like saying blind is an obstacle. Zerker stance when you burst and that problem is fixed 70% of the time. And stabillity can be played around unless you’re fighting a rev traited for it or another warrior. And Cygnus the only two things from the list of classes you named that can actually counter hammer are Revenant and DH. The rest can easilly be played around. especially tempest , Chrono , and Scrapper just by swapping traits around.

How long does Zerker Stance last? WvW is a big place, and warrior is an easily kited class. When your stance runs out, your hammer becomes useless against a foe with blinds.

Sure you can play around stability on classes that aren’t War/Rev. But most classes have a lot of it, and then they still have blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, stuns of their own to counter yours, and when all else fails, they port away or stealth up to reset their cooldowns. Especially Tempest, Chrono and Scrapper.

You seem to forget you also have a gs with that hammer that can close gaps + reckless dodge will remove blinds for you. And warrior is not an easilly kited class only easilly kited by mes and thief and if you play it right only by thief. If you as a warrior have problems fighting scrappers i think you might want to rethink what class you play if anything is suited to deal with scrapper it’s warrior. Take the trait : Destruction of the Empowered and watch them die. Even without it it shouldnt pose a big threath. Blocks also get outplayed by Reckless Dodge.

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: Obindo.6802

Obindo.6802

if anything is suited to deal with scrapper it’s warrior.

Druid and Rev*

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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

It procs damage that cleans the blind.

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

It procs damage that cleans the blind.

Wow i didnt knew, I thought reckless dodge only do unblockable damage after you dodged. I never knew about the blind cleansing.

Are there more condis that can be cleansed by reckless dodge? Or only blinds?

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(edited by Hoaxintelligence.4628)

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

It procs damage that cleans the blind.

Wow i didnt knew, I thought reckless dodge only do unblockable damage after you dodged. I never knew about the blind cleansing.

Are there more condis that can be cleansed by reckless dodge? Or only blinds?

I am pooping myself here.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

i dont get why so many of you feel like saying blind is an obstacle. Zerker stance when you burst and that problem is fixed 70% of the time. And stabillity can be played around unless you’re fighting a rev traited for it or another warrior. And Cygnus the only two things from the list of classes you named that can actually counter hammer are Revenant and DH. The rest can easilly be played around. especially tempest , Chrono , and Scrapper just by swapping traits around.

How long does Zerker Stance last? WvW is a big place, and warrior is an easily kited class. When your stance runs out, your hammer becomes useless against a foe with blinds.

Sure you can play around stability on classes that aren’t War/Rev. But most classes have a lot of it, and then they still have blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, stuns of their own to counter yours, and when all else fails, they port away or stealth up to reset their cooldowns. Especially Tempest, Chrono and Scrapper.

You seem to forget you also have a gs with that hammer that can close gaps + reckless dodge will remove blinds for you. And warrior is not an easilly kited class only easilly kited by mes and thief and if you play it right only by thief. If you as a warrior have problems fighting scrappers i think you might want to rethink what class you play if anything is suited to deal with scrapper it’s warrior. Take the trait : Destruction of the Empowered and watch them die. Even without it it shouldnt pose a big threath. Blocks also get outplayed by Reckless Dodge.

I will rethink what class I am playing, you gave me incredible insight.

Few questions.

You do realise that anything with stealth can kite you, right?

You do realise that anything with a teleport can kite you, right?

Final question, when you are using your dodges to cleanse all the blinds and proc all the blocks, what do you use for damage mitigation, when all your opponents can use their dodges defensively to, I dunno, dodge your highly telegraphed hammer stuns?

Edit: just thought of another big question. When you dodged into a DH to cleanse/proc, and the trap closes on you, what do you do?

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: Hoaxintelligence.4628

Hoaxintelligence.4628

The last time gs-hammer was kinda of viable was before hot.
Hammer sucks atm, thats how it is. Even if the hammer had a casting speed of a axe + 15%damage, it will still suck. Thats how bad the hammer is atm.

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

*5 Backbreaker – Long cooldown, single target, short range, huge telegraph. If you hit someone with this, they were probably AFK.

hahaha this one made me laugh. Its so true.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Choppy.4183

Choppy.4183

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

It procs damage that cleans the blind.

Wow i didnt knew, I thought reckless dodge only do unblockable damage after you dodged. I never knew about the blind cleansing.

Are there more condis that can be cleansed by reckless dodge? Or only blinds?

I am pooping myself here.

I think he’s saying Reckless Dodge counts as an attack, and blind clears after preventing one attack. So, if you’re blinded before your big burst, dodge into the enemy, blind clears after negating Reckless Dodge, and you’re good to go with your burst without the blind to stop it.

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Posted by: mike put.6892

mike put.6892

i dont get why so many of you feel like saying blind is an obstacle. Zerker stance when you burst and that problem is fixed 70% of the time. And stabillity can be played around unless you’re fighting a rev traited for it or another warrior. And Cygnus the only two things from the list of classes you named that can actually counter hammer are Revenant and DH. The rest can easilly be played around. especially tempest , Chrono , and Scrapper just by swapping traits around.

How long does Zerker Stance last? WvW is a big place, and warrior is an easily kited class. When your stance runs out, your hammer becomes useless against a foe with blinds.

Sure you can play around stability on classes that aren’t War/Rev. But most classes have a lot of it, and then they still have blinds, blocks, invulnerabilities, stuns of their own to counter yours, and when all else fails, they port away or stealth up to reset their cooldowns. Especially Tempest, Chrono and Scrapper.

You seem to forget you also have a gs with that hammer that can close gaps + reckless dodge will remove blinds for you. And warrior is not an easilly kited class only easilly kited by mes and thief and if you play it right only by thief. If you as a warrior have problems fighting scrappers i think you might want to rethink what class you play if anything is suited to deal with scrapper it’s warrior. Take the trait : Destruction of the Empowered and watch them die. Even without it it shouldnt pose a big threath. Blocks also get outplayed by Reckless Dodge.

I will rethink what class I am playing, you gave me incredible insight.

Few questions.

You do realise that anything with stealth can kite you, right?

You do realise that anything with a teleport can kite you, right?

Final question, when you are using your dodges to cleanse all the blinds and proc all the blocks, what do you use for damage mitigation, when all your opponents can use their dodges defensively to, I dunno, dodge your highly telegraphed hammer stuns?

Edit: just thought of another big question. When you dodged into a DH to cleanse/proc, and the trap closes on you, what do you do?

Do you really want me to explain warrior mechanics to you?

Harambe was only a gorilla…

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Posted by: Dipdoo.4861

Dipdoo.4861

Hydro Sigil also procs blind, landing arcing slices with a surprise blind cleanse is great.

Big Cat Dipdoo ~ Warrior, Caeda Ripstep ~ Revenant, Braum Has Arrived ~ Guardian [SQD]
“It’s time to Rim Ram their Jim Jams.”

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

All of this said, Hammer is still bad. Mike may not be wrong about the way he plays the class, but why waste your time on hammer when you could run the same thing with Sheild, Axe/ Greatsword. Hammer just has too many problems right now to be a reliable weapon. which is sad because i love the hammer. I wish they had not gutted it and broke it in the process.

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Posted by: Choppy.4183

Choppy.4183

It’s mostly been said, but I dropped hammer after HoT because of the proliferation of stability/stunbreaks and much higher ranged pressure, rather than any gutting to the weapon itself.

You could probably make a go of it, and I still use it for duels from time to time. But the loss of reliable stun lock and lack of ranged defense (block, mobility, etc) make it ill suited for roaming these days, imo. At least when compared to the alternatives.

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Posted by: Cygnus.6903

Cygnus.6903

mike put.6892: ‘’reckless dodge will remove blinds for you’’

How do you remove blinds with reckless dodge :o ?

Strength traitline makes it so the dodge does unblockable 2-3k damage on dodges.
Use that to dodge on your enemies and remove the blind if you have it on.

So Reckless Dodge can cleanse condi now ? Sins when ?

It procs damage that cleans the blind.

Wow i didnt knew, I thought reckless dodge only do unblockable damage after you dodged. I never knew about the blind cleansing.

Are there more condis that can be cleansed by reckless dodge? Or only blinds?

I am pooping myself here.

I think he’s saying Reckless Dodge counts as an attack, and blind clears after preventing one attack. So, if you’re blinded before your big burst, dodge into the enemy, blind clears after negating Reckless Dodge, and you’re good to go with your burst without the blind to stop it.

We all know what he is trying to say, this guy just doesn’t know when he is getting trolled.

I am waiting for him to explain warrior mechanics to me now.

I only state my opinion unless stated otherwise.
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Posted by: Cerby.1069

Cerby.1069

havent even tried berserker hammer’s f1 yet…lol. Its really the least useful weapon in our loudouts atm.

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Posted by: killahmayne.9518

killahmayne.9518

Hammer for roaming is pretty much obsolete with the HoT patch. Not that it was in a good place before the expansion anyhow, even then it was slowly falling out of favour and more towards axe.

A lot of this is due to the power creep of the elite specializations and almost no corresponding buffs to hammer gameplay.

vs DH - If you aren’t walking into traps to CC a guardian good luck navigating through a sea of blocks and blinds

vs Ranger/Druid - 1500 range vs full melee, yeah. Be prepared to be kited to death, or have your damage outhealed versus a druid. Not to mention the lots of stability they can skill or trait for.

vs Scrapper - Nearly full uptime on stability with one trait, blocks. Not to mention their hammer still hits like a truck while being very tanky with decent healing ability

vs Herald - brb instant stunbreaker no CD, brb blocks, brb stability on dodge

vs Mesmer - Hammer was a joke vs Mesmer pre-HoT

vs Thief - Mayb if the thief fks up and you catch them

vs Reaper - Still somewhat viable vs Reaper, but Foot in the Grave will make it very difficult if traited

vs Ele - Maybe if you can catch them out of their water rotation

Mace/Greatsword Video (Sept Patch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoAjKtD6MLY