Guild Wars 2

Alright so as much as I want to use the GW2 forum’s astounding search engine, I think it might be better if I just make a new thread to talk with my fellow warriors about the skill we all appreciate.

I think we can all agree that between warriors and our friends in the necromancer department that we both share the lowest tier of Downed State skills compared to anyone else. Not only do we get a pitiful single target knockdown on 1 second channel to potentially interrupt (HAHAHAHAHA, that’s a good joke) our opponent finishing us off, we have like everyone else’s down state 3, a whole eight seconds before we can even activate our ‘favorite ability’.

As much as I want to have a drink with the necros on down state, I propose that we as a whole lot of angry warriors, come up with reasonable ideas and suggestions on how to make OUR down state more in line with everyone else’s.

So…

As the title suggests, let’s have a back and forth on this. Let me lay down a few facts about Vengeance taken straight from http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeance that might clear up some things here, if you don’t believe me, there is the link. Seriously-

- Vengeance will rally the warrior to fight normally for 15 seconds. After the duration ends, the Warrior dies.
- There is only a 25% chance per kill that grants XP credit to said warrior to remove the Vengeance effect and the warrior rallies for real.
- Vengeance does not contest points in SPvP or WvW. If you die again under the effects of vengeance you are instantly defeated (This last part isn’t actually in the wiki, but it’s an actual fact and it makes sense).

So, pretty much I just explained Vengeance to everyone here, in which might have been pointless but I do not want silly misconceptions to happen. Which is good for me because I have many issues with the skill that are based on personal experience and how Vengeance actually functions.

First off, Vengeance is the only downed skill that will punish you for using it in attempt to rally.

“Wait what?”

Let me explain, other 3 skills have a good potential to rally you faster and hopefully before someone blind/invis/invul/stabil stomps you. Guardians get a powerful heal to synergize with the common heal, Engineers…actually Engineers might be just above the Necro and Warrior tier, I might suggest they get something better as well. Elementalists actually have a Mist Form AS soon as they get downed to utilize, with a stacking immobilize if given enough time. And…I don’t feel like going through the rest, laziness and the fact no one likes Mesmers and Thieves.

The thing is, that while under any circumstances where any other profession but a warrior tags targets and has a potential to rally, if a warrior pops HIS 3, he might actually NOT RALLY AT ALL! Because of that silly, STUPIDLY low percentage of 25%, if a warrior gets up to fight (again putting himself in danger, cause he isn’t immune from damage in Vengeance) he will have to pray to Zommoros to grant him a rally for a mechanic that punishes him for getting up to test his luck! What other profession has this issue? If a warrior wants to rely on a rally to get him up like everyone else, then he can’t actually use Vengeance, leaving him an ability less than everyone else!

NEXT, Sweet Revenge, Master Trait in Discipline. You have to spend 20 points and a master trait to get a potentially reliable Vengeance to work when you actually kill someone! I…I don’t even want to talk about how silly this is. I think the trait is actually a punch-line for a warrior joke somewhere.

Finally, Vengeance without contesting. This one is actually hard to gauge, and I think I can live without since no other profession can contest the point either with a down-state skill or capability. But, considering all the flaws with Vengeance currently and the ridiculous chance to pull off a rally while in it, I don’t suppose we could still contest the point, perhaps make us a real threat in some scenarios while Vengeancing? Just saying, would be an interesting thought.

Anyways that’s what I got folks.

Aye, warrior down state = a joke. I wish we could at least access Vengeance earlier. I don’t mind they give us less time to kill.

What bothers me the most is thief down state, it’s way too op… U finally caught the guy out of stealth which only the thief could decide when he wanted to be caught. You poked him, he was near dead, he popped Shadow Refuse and if u managed to get him in it, he’s still stealthy. He teleported away and rest himself back up.

Oh come on! Vengeance is OP. Haven’t you heard? Everything Warrior does is OP and we have the best of everything.

Seriously, I don’t like Vengeance. I would rather have it replaced by just about anything. But if it’s to stay, I think a 100% rally w/ a worthy kill (without taking that trait) would be more fair.

Just replace it, with a button that instantly kills you would be better. Saves you 15 seconds of looking like a fool.

lol ^

One place it is very viable and can actually be OP is in 1v1 servers, I managed to ‘win’ with this skill many times.
But I think all downstate are kinda meh anyhow, at least this 1 has some rare occasions where it can help. Only down skill thats real OP is ranger #3 that pet can rez through a kitten fire storm. So if anything to change in downskills I would just nerf this 1 and leave the other ones as is.

hellsmachine.4085:

Just replace it, with a button that instantly kills you would be better. Saves you 15 seconds of looking like a fool.

+1

Considering how many people jump over the edge in eotm when they are about to die, this could work for every class :P

Personally I’d like 2 downed skills for all classes – hit/heal.

^^

Replace it with a skill that instantly kills you and doesn’t give the opponent credit. The ultimate revenge.

Krisztian.8405:

^^

Replace it with a skill that instantly kills you and doesn’t give the opponent credit. The ultimate revenge.

The only reason I use it is to say “Haha you don’t get to kill me, I kill myself!”

Kind of like telling your boss “You can’t fire me, because I quit!”

They could rename it to “Death before dishonour”

Tool tip could read, “As you fall dying you deny your opponent the satisfaction of defeating you so you land, impaling yourself on your sword” or something along those lines.

I agree that the warrior downstate might be the worst skillset. On the other hand, we don’t need to use them becuaes we don’t need to die, and if we do, another set of downed skills wouldn’t save us.

I’m pretty sure the bug where if you die in vengeance and revive before it expires you die again. That was always a fun one for me. Twice the punishment.

The only time I ever used Vengeance was not for a kill because that usually was a failure, but often to save an ally. I know I’m dead. But I can at least save someone else.

Vengeance has worked well in PvP, though the effect can actually come off? Never had that happen before :/

In a downed vs downed fight, it guarantees a tie even if you started at a horrible disadvantage. You even have a short time of invincibility after you activate it, fast enough for a stomp.
The only one that beats it in a downed vs downed fight is ranger’s downstate.

Don’t forget, this is a downstate skill we are talking about. None of them are, or should ever be, spectacular.

warriors don’t die anyway, it doesn’t matter how bad downstate skills are

Vengeance is awful. Warriors have the worst downed state.
That is all

I always thought the way it worked was if u killed the guy that downed u, then u had a decent chance of rallying O.o what happens is sometimes when I afk i come back and I’m downed so I vengeance and try to kill the guy thats attking me, then i desperately search for any mob in sight, pray for luck and try to burst them down before i die. sometimes this works but usually it doesnt.. i guess 25% chance on any mob makes sense tho. I just wish it could be something like, increased chance to rally if u kill the enemy that downed u. Then slightly less chance for the other mobs that u took dmg from..

DuranArgith.1354:

Vengeance is awful. Warriors have the worst downed state.
That is all

I’d argue Engineer are worse off.

But yeah, Warrior downstate sucks.

What I hate about vengence is that if you got downed by a condi and you killed the person that put the condi on you… YOU STILL WONT RALLY. That is utter horse kitten. Also the timer needs to be 1 second less because you wont even get to use it if a person starts stomp right when you get downed.

Good to see my fellow warriors taking this with a bit of humor!

However! Let’s start collaborating on how we can fix such a thing. It’s going to be difficult, but I have thought of a idea for a new rendition of Vengeance:

- Vengeance rallies you, the duration of the effect is 10 seconds (There is a reason for this nerf).
- Upon the effect ending, the warrior takes Half his maximum health pool in damage, if it downs him he dies immediately. If alive the warrior resumes normal play with a low health bar.
- Bear in mind that a warrior just can’t keep spamming vengeance, it has a 20 second cooldown, ergo if a warrior gets downed soon after he outlasts the vengeance effect, not only does he have to deal with the Rally penalty but his vengeance might be on a longer cooldown than before!

How’s that sound?

Personally I like the idea behind Vengeance in general and how it fits a Warrior, but I do agree that it needs some changes. I mean, when I press that ability I feel like I’m setting out to do something difficult, with my reward for successfully doing it being the roll of a dice that decides whether I live or not. Basically, I first have to survive the time I need to activate it, then I have to survive and make a kill, and then I have to pass the 25% chance dice roll. That seems more like a prayer to the Gods than actual Vengeance.

And now, for my suggestion. Leave 15 second timer, leave the time required to activate it, raise the chance to 100% and make it so that if you successfully kill an enemy while Vengeance is active, you return to a downed state once it wears off. A lot of people might disagree with that idea, but it’s better to take charge of your own survival than hoping for miracles, I think.

Remove downed state completely problem solved. Also fixes wvw where large blobs win against smaller better skilled forces cus they just mass rez everybody that died. You die you waypoint. Maps are small we don’t need downed state or rezing from dead.