Guild Wars 2

Vengeance
Rally and fight normally for a brief time. When the rally ends, you are defeated.
Duration: 15 s

*Cannot contest points in sPvP or WvW while under its effect.

The issue (needs to be balanced) due to the observation above, in a group situation, downed enemies should not rally when you die under vengeance effect (once others downed their enemies while the nearest warrior was on vengeance).

pupi.2465:

Vengeance
Rally and fight normally for a brief time. When the rally ends, you are defeated.
Duration: 15 s

*Cannot contest points in sPvP or WvW while under its effect.

The issue (needs to be balanced) due to the observation above, in a group situation, downed enemies should not rally when you die under vengeance effect (once others downed their enemies while the nearest warrior was on vengeance).

Vengeance is probably the strongest of the downed state 3 skills.. most 3 skills just have a damaging attack or another delay for 3 seconds. Vengeance you can get up delay the rally for 15 seconds, or stomp an enemy, revive allies, do full bursts to your enemies. It’s good.

For you to say: “Dying from Vengeance shouldn’t rally enemies!” that basically means that using Vengeance completely robs the enemies of getting a rally for defeating you fair and square. And it would remove the logic behind using vengeance properly, as you’d never have to balance the repercussions of using it.

No.

Edit: Having the Rally to enemies happen when the Warrior uses vengeance would be interesting, though. That way it wouldn’t be so lame in downed fights, and the Warrior could actually know if he will possibly rally enemies, rather than the realization happening 10 seconds later that he just screwed his team.

Chaith.8256:

pupi.2465:

Vengeance
Rally and fight normally for a brief time. When the rally ends, you are defeated.
Duration: 15 s

*Cannot contest points in sPvP or WvW while under its effect.

The issue (needs to be balanced) due to the observation above, in a group situation, downed enemies should not rally when you die under vengeance effect (once others downed their enemies while the nearest warrior was on vengeance).

Vengeance is probably the strongest of the downed state 3 skills.. most 3 skills just have a damaging attack or another delay for 3 seconds. Vengeance you can get up delay the rally for 15 seconds, or stomp an enemy, revive allies, do full bursts to your enemies. It’s good.

For you to say: “Dying from Vengeance shouldn’t rally enemies!” that basically means that using Vengeance completely robs the enemies of getting a rally for defeating you fair and square. And it would remove the logic behind using vengeance properly, as you’d never have to balance the repercussions of using it.

No.

Edit: Having the Rally to enemies happen when the Warrior uses vengeance would be interesting, though. That way it wouldn’t be so lame in downed fights, and the Warrior could actually know if he will possibly rally enemies, rather than the realization happening 10 seconds later that he just screwed his team.

I understand your point, but the problem is the warrior loosing the benefits from capping points, and theres another thing, engs have that sort of rally while downed too, i dont know the name, i know it takes more time than vengeance cd, but they can come out of downed with no death time.

If youre bad enough to get downed, you dont deserve to be capping points

If you don’t get downed at least sometimes, then you’re doing something very wrong.

Kagamiku.9731:

If you don’t get downed at least sometimes, then you’re doing something very wrong.

Or youre just very good.

No, everyone dies. If you never die, it means you’re a kitten who runs off at the slightest risk of death.

XD or youre a cheater

Panamania.1450:

If youre bad enough to get downed, you dont deserve to be capping points

Tell me, so you dont get into a capture point when there are 2 vs you ?

Wow, it seems you dont like a higher challenge, for that, training to be “better”, and not be “bad” enough to fight only 1v1.

Panamania.1450:

Kagamiku.9731:

If you don’t get downed at least sometimes, then you’re doing something very wrong.

Or youre just very good.

Even the very good players die, because their survivability eventually gets noticed and they get focused. Good or not, never dying involves abandoning points when death is involved.

On Topic:

Vengeance is fine as is. It takes ages to unlock which means quick/invisi/surprise stomps ruin it, can be kited out, bursted down,
but at the same time it allows you to fight normally and even rally off of deaths. It doesnt need any further buff. what it has is plenty.

Chaith.8256:

Vengeance is probably the strongest of the downed state 3 skills..

I disagree in the PvP/WvW context. In PvE, I agree, and especially true against multiple trash mobs.

Any downed state that allows you to contest a point further and/or extends your downed state without a finite requirement is in practice, better.

Smoke Bomb and Lick Wounds are better for no other reason than they are more likely to be used in a downed state because the Thief can avoid the first stomp attempt (or move away) with Shadow Escape (everyone loves the multi-stomp attempts each and every single time (unless you happen to have a teleport or insta-daze up)) and the Ranger can use it more often because of a pet (specifically Wolf charge interrupt + AoE Fear) extending duration of time.

Vengeance rarely ever is able to be used simply because Hammer Toss is incredibly weak. It’s not a teleport/stealth nor is it AoE and because it is a projectile, can be more easily avoided through multiple player opponent abilities.

Even when used, you revive at 1/2 health and can easily be bursted down again well before 15s.

In other words, the power of the 3 skill needs to be higher the lower value of the 2 skill. Vengeance is actually kind of weak against player opponents.

Ideally, I’d like to see Vengeance modified and rebalanced in the following way:
The core skill works the same, you get up and fight normally for a time. Two changes need to be made though.
First, return to down state when vengeance expires. Dying while in vengeance will still result in your complete defeate.
Second, killing an opponent does not give you a chance to rally. Instead, when you return to down state you get 1 stack of a buff per enemy slain while in vengeance. Each stack will heal you for X% of your downed health, potentially rallying you if you killed enough.
The ‘Sweet Vengeance’ trait will instead increase the amount of health you gain per stack.
Time you’re rallied for and health returned are subject to rebalancing. I would expect them to nerf how long you’re standing for to compensate.

These changes would remove the RNG, and stop vengeance from being a killyourself button.

Artaz.3819:

Vengeance rarely ever is able to be used simply because Hammer Toss is incredibly weak. It’s not a teleport/stealth nor is it AoE and because it is a projectile, can be more easily avoided through multiple player opponent abilities.

On my Ranger, I will just hide behind my pet while stomping so the hammer hits him instead of me. I don’t even bother stealthing with LB 3. XD

Vengeance is good. You can’t be stomped unless you are downed again lol… Tbh I wouldn’t mind seeing all forms of downed state removed from game…

Vengeance itself is imbalanced, especially in PvP/WvW. It should have a 60sec cooldown before it becomes available when downed.

That way if you’ve survived long enough while downed, you deserve to get up and fight.

Vengeance does allow for some funny situations at times though. Over the weekend I was in a PvP match fighting with a Warrior at the Keep in Niflhel. I managed to down him first, but an enemy Ranger showed up and downed me before I could stomp the Warrior. Then another Thief on my team showed up and engaged the Ranger, forcing him away. The Warrior then used Vengeance, popped Balanced Stance and stomped me. XD

But I took some satisfaction in the fact that shortly after I respawned, I got points for him dying after Vengeance wore off.

Rentapest.6503:

Vengeance itself is imbalanced, especially in PvP/WvW. It should have a 60sec cooldown before it becomes available when downed.

That way if you’ve survived long enough while downed, you deserve to get up and fight.

Who’s going to let a warrior bleed out on the ground for a whole minute? Lolukiddin’?

It’s fine as is. a trait allows you to win every close / double down battle, and if not traited, 25% chance to rally on anything slain within 15 seconds. For a state thatyou can access before being KO’d, that’s pretty reasonable. There’s no need to buff or nerf it. and especially no need to increase the timer to longer than it would take for the warrior to bleed out.

Lol.. 60 seconds.

Idk what game you’re playing bro

I personnaly like Vengeance a lot, even after loosing the 5sec invulnerability it previously had. But I think it should have 100% chance to rally on kill as base line and Sweet Revenge should just be replaced or advance the duration and effect of Vengeance even further.

Ambrecombe.4398:

I personnaly like Vengeance a lot, even after loosing the 5sec invulnerability it previously had. But I think it should have 100% chance to rally on kill as base line and Sweet Revenge should just be replaced or advance the duration and effect of Vengeance even further.

Amen!