Guild Wars 2

Posting here the same post I did in the pvp section
I would like to have warrior based opinions too.

Greetings fellow GW2 players and dev’s.
I have a suggestion concerning a trait in the discipline line : Fast Hands

I was thinking about it while reading the patch notes preview for December the 10th.
Devs realised that the elementalist was too much dependant of the arcane tree line in order to swap elements.
They solved it by reducing the base element-swap cooldown untraited , and nerfing the trait line a bit.

I think this great idea should transfer to the warrior.
As you may know most of warriors pvp puilds out there go deep into discipline.
In fact nearly 100% of the warriors builds that were played in spvp since the start of the game had at least 20 points in discipline.
One of the reason is Fast Hand’s.

Fast Hands is mandatory if you want to adapt quickly .
And since warrior is the master of weapons, he should consequently be able switch a bit more often than the other classes.

For example :
Base CD without Fast Hand’s could be 8 (or 7) seconds
While Traited CD could stay at 5

This simple change could IMHO improve build diversity for warriors by removing the necessity of investing 15 to 20 points in a single but very important trait line.

Whil I agree with the changes being made to the warrior in the futur patch I would also like to see this concept implemented in the game.

Towards the community and the Dev’s :
Do you like the idea ? Could this, be implemented quickly ?
Do you fear it would be too strong ?
Do you have any other suggestions ?

Thank you for reading this to the end.

Best Regards

I will never use a pvp build that doesn’t have at least 20 points in Discipline, though that is mainly for Mobile Strikes. That being said, I would also always take fast hands without exception.

Thanks for your answer Cogbyrn. So you agree that discipline is a mandatory trait line. Do you think giving 8 sec CD on weapon swap without fast hands could change something ?

I’ll pretty much never run a serious PvP or WvW Roamer build without Fast Hands. It’s just too important; most warrior builds have to chain their different sets of weapon skills together in order to be effective.

For example, Sword Flurry, cancel into 100b (or classic cheesy skullcrack+100b), or Hambow, Comb shot, Earthshaker into the fire field for free might and stun.

Exactly what I think. I have been experimenting many builds , and without fast hand I most of the time feel self restrained.
It’s like when you chose not to take fast hand’s, you chose to lower your skill ceiling.
You can do much less of the difficult and interesting weapon swap combos available.

So do you guys agree ?
Shall weapon-swap CD be shorter than it actually is for warrior ?

Swap it with Versatile Rage
Buff/change Versatile Rage t better suit a 15 pt trait
Done.

But tbh Fast Hands feels ok where it is to me.

I’d still go 20 or 30 in discipline. Warriors just have kittenty traitlines. Strength and Arms have maybe 1 or 2 traits each that I’d use.

Dand.8231:

For example, Sword Flurry, cancel into 100b (or classic cheesy skullcrack+100b), or Hambow, Comb shot, Earthshaker into the fire field for free might and stun.

How is Skull Crack -> 100B “cheese” but Flurry -> 100B not? Apparently you don’t understand what cheesing is, and you’re hypocritical even with your wrong definition.

This has been a topic several times, It would make sense for a lesser version of fast hands too be base for warriors but to be honest, whether I am trying to make a bunker build or a condition build I find myself traiting into the discipline trait line just because there are so many good traits in it so I don’t mind fast hands being where it is, I almost wish the Discipline trait line didn’t tie down warriors.

Even if it were 8 seconds, I would probably unwaveringly still get fast hands. I just covet the cooldown reduction that much.

I don’t think there’s been a single warrior build I’ve played that didn’t use this trait. They should make 5s swap CD an innate thing for the warrior mechanic.

I agree that discipline carries most of the best traits for warrior.
Changing Fast hands from a trait to a core mechanic could a least let people experiment with other trait lines without feeling like they are hindering their own potential.

This could be done without having to buff other trait lines at first.
Avoiding the overbuff of a trait line.
So we could imagine swapping fast hand with versatile rage.
Or making it a core warrior mechanic and adding another trait in place.

Holy crap you guys never cease to amaze me. So one of the warriors strongest traits, you want switched to a built in feature for warriors? These are the kinds of threads that make people roll eyes at warriors.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Holy crap you guys never cease to amaze me. So one of the warriors strongest traits, you want switched to a built in feature for warriors? These are the kinds of threads that make people roll eyes at warriors.

Actually, that’s not what everyone here is saying. Ok, well, some are. But others feel it might need the same treatment as Thief initiative, or Elemental Attunement.

In other words, Warriors are so highly dependent on it, it stops becoming a CHOICE. The same thing happened with Ele’s all going into Arcane. The fix isn’t to simply give it to all Warriors for free, it’s to provide alternative choices, and reduce the impact of that trait as a choice. In other words, spreading the love.

Dand.8231:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Holy crap you guys never cease to amaze me. So one of the warriors strongest traits, you want switched to a built in feature for warriors? These are the kinds of threads that make people roll eyes at warriors.

Actually, that’s not what everyone here is saying. Ok, well, some are. But others feel it might need the same treatment as Thief initiative, or Elemental Attunement.

In other words, Warriors are so highly dependent on it, it stops becoming a CHOICE. The same thing happened with Ele’s all going into Arcane. The fix isn’t to simply give it to all Warriors for free, it’s to provide alternative choices, and reduce the impact of that trait as a choice. In other words, spreading the love.

Or fix #2. Remove it completely? Let you boys find another “must have trait”. And enjoy 10 second weapon swaps like the rest of us. Then continue to complain about what new trait is a must have.

Dand.8231:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

Holy crap you guys never cease to amaze me. So one of the warriors strongest traits, you want switched to a built in feature for warriors? These are the kinds of threads that make people roll eyes at warriors.

Actually, that’s not what everyone here is saying. Ok, well, some are. But others feel it might need the same treatment as Thief initiative, or Elemental Attunement.

In other words, Warriors are so highly dependent on it, it stops becoming a CHOICE. The same thing happened with Ele’s all going into Arcane. The fix isn’t to simply give it to all Warriors for free, it’s to provide alternative choices, and reduce the impact of that trait as a choice. In other words, spreading the love.

Be careful in what you wish.
Illusionist’s Celerity should have teached a lesson.

It’d be a nice change but everyone will still go into Discipline. Warrior’s Sprint, Signet Mastery, Destruction of the Empowered, Vigorous Stances, this trait line is filled with great traits.

I don’t feel like Fast Hands is a mandatory trait to have, it’s just so strong that almost nobody is going to pass it up.

Morelia.6835:

I don’t feel like Fast Hands is a mandatory trait to have, it’s just so strong that almost nobody is going to pass it up.

It’s definitely mandatory imo.

I want data that nearly 100% of warrior builds use fast hands. I don’t believe you

To Cat Has Ducks :
I knew some people would think this would be strong , that’s why in the first time we were asking for reduce general CD , Keep Fast Hand’s in a weaker Version. Just like it is said in the first post.

And as you see in the answers some people wont even mind the change since discipline has so much to offer.

To andrewSX :
I liked your story about illusionist celerity. IMO they made a step in the wrong direction , and as you see they are now stepping back for the same reason we are talking here : Trying to lessen trait dependency to a single line.

To Heta :
It depends on what you are talking about :
If it is pve and sometimes WvW , you will most often than not cross the road of warriors that do not go deep into discipline , I agree.

But almost all pvp warrior builds that made their way through the tournaments had 20 points at least in discipline.
Here is some source for that : TOP GW2 tournament Builds

You can search for the instances where “warrior” appears and make you own opinion.
I know into the mists does not gather any warrior build out there , but I think it shows enough.
Edit : I checked myself and counted 2 builds out of 13 that did’nt have Fast Hand’s.

caporal moktahr.3408:

To Cat Has Ducks :
I knew some people would think this would be strong , that’s why in the first time we were asking for reduce general CD , Keep Fast Hand’s in a weaker Version. Just like it is said in the first post.

Why not give all classes the weaker version. As well as 25% move speed buff. Then remove the traits to increase swapping and speed movement. Thus making us all equal without having to trait for it. I would personally love this… Guards are A out on both of those. But I know warrs are just looking for a buff. So I shall stop posting. I think every class can pick out a must have trait to do this to by the way.

To Cat Has Ducks
This could be a solution , keeping core mechanics universal for all classes (move speed , weapon swap , dodge rate for example) while making quality of life changes : reducing weapon swap CD / increasing base movespeed.

I am speaking only from a warrior perspective, that’s why I did’nt thought about the guardian. Is guardian very reliant on weapon swap combos ?

Personnaly I fear that the changes you want to introduce could never happen ,they would bring too much to the fray. Whereas tweaking Fast Hand’s a little could open opportunities for new warrior builds without being a direct buff to the existing ones.
At least in pvp.

caporal moktahr.3408:

To Cat Has Ducks
This could be a solution , keeping core mechanics universal for all classes (move speed , weapon swap , dodge rate for example) while making quality of life changes : reducing weapon swap CD / increasing base movespeed.

I am speaking only from a warrior perspective, that’s why I did’nt thought about the guardian. Is guardian very reliant on weapon swap combos ?

Personnaly I fear that the changes you want to introduce could never happen ,they would bring too much to the fray. Whereas tweaking Fast Hand’s a little could open opportunities for new warrior builds without being a direct buff to the existing ones.
At least in pvp.

If Guardians had the option of switching hell yeah. For example, if we ever want to use a sigil of battle, we’d need to have one on each weapon to make it worth a kitten . Meanwhile you guys only need 1 with your 5 second cool down.

I would love to have the option, since I could more easily swap to a weapon for a one or two abilities, rather than being stuck auto attacking waiting for the kitten 10 sec CD to allow me to switch back to my heavier hitter.

The amount of options with this skill would be amazing…. You guys need to understand that this is a freaking powerhouse of a trait. And you all should be glad you even have the option of being “forced” to use it. Guardian dps in general would be much higher with this bad boy, as well as our sustain. being able to swap to what we need quicker.

If ur gonna make a suggestion of “Fast Hand” then there should be something like that for elementalists, i mean they are “master of elements”.

Alex.4150:

If ur gonna make a suggestion of “Fast Hand” then there should be something like that for elementalists, i mean they are “master of elements”.

Elementalists get, in essence, 4 weapon sets instead of just 2. Based on the elements.

So, you already have it?