Guild Wars 2

I wanna bring you a short view which is one of the greatest differences because warrior is on the bottom class mainly in PVP in my opinion.

My main character is a warrior but is very difficult to play with it in tPVP, everyone know why.. And when I play tPVP I only see Engineers, Rangers, Necromancers, Guardians and a few Elementalists, Mesmers and Thiefs. I’m forced to play with one of these classes to play tPVP because warrior are useless and then I saw a one great difference between warriors and the other classes.

I realized that the vast majority of Rangers play spirit build, Necros play minions build and Engineers play turrets build because these builds are amazing. We gonna see why…

Ranger spirits: When ragner summon spirits obtain passive and active utility skills (protecction, swiftness, immobilize, cripple, chilled, heals and cure conditions…).

Necromancer minions: When necros summon minions obtain passive and active utility skills (minions can attack and necros can poison, immobilize, knockback, blind, break stun…)

Engineer turrets: When engineer summon turrets obtain passive and active utility skills (turrets can attack and engi can regen, inmmobilize, stun, blid, bleeds, knockback, chilled, heal, cripple…)

In a less level we could find the other classes summons. Guardians with spirit weapons, Elementalist and glyphs which also obtain passive and active benefits.

Well, what are the warrior summons? BANNERS, which give us useless skills, eliminate our weapons skills and burst and only increase our stats. If we spend 30 points in Tactics tree we obtain a regen, but we only need 1 banner and run with more is useless. Warrior haven’t Banner build as Spirit Ranger build, Minion Necro Build or Turret Engi build because we haven’t benefits like they have (passive and active utility skills)

My suggestions to Anet: Change Banner mechanics like spirits, minions, turrets, spirit weapons, etc etc etc. How??

1-Eliminate skills 1….5 and give the obtion to run with banners on our back.
2-Give us passive and active utility skills like other classes have (protection, knockback, heals, immobilize,……).

Maybe with these changes we could run a banner build and be competitive in tPVP.

MM Necro is a joke, Turret Engi must be a new player (not just to the class, but to the game lol), the only tPvP viable spec you have listed is a spirit ranger. Also, I have no idea what you have been doing in the past few weeks, but warriors are the rising star of pvp as of late (since half the population has quit their mesmers and elementalists). Try the standard 0/10/30/0/30 hammer/longbow build, watch some vids of better players playing the build (phantaram or teldo both ran it for a few matches) and then tell me that warrior is weak

Keep in mind that banners are indestructible. They offer less flexibility but an enemy cannot remove them.

Spirits give stuff till they get overloaded with bleeds/burn and die.
Minions do stuff till their ai bugs out and they stare at some wall while you get slaughtered.
A banner is a banner. Simple and maybe primitive yet efficient.
It’s simply there and gets stuff done without you having to rely on any ai or having to hide it from AoE/focus fire.
It raises the morale of the troop, can be used in pairs to give permanent swiftness to an entire party, can be used as a double blast finisher and got some nice other gimmicks(like dealing enough autoattack damage to outdps a ranger greatsword).
Some also heal or give fury, heck, the elite banner rezzes and can give stability.

Silferas.3841:

MM Necro is a joke, Turret Engi must be a new player (not just to the class, but to the game lol), the only tPvP viable spec you have listed is a spirit ranger. Also, I have no idea what you have been doing in the past few weeks, but warriors are the rising star of pvp as of late (since half the population has quit their mesmers and elementalists). Try the standard 0/10/30/0/30 hammer/longbow build, watch some vids of better players playing the build (phantaram or teldo both ran it for a few matches) and then tell me that warrior is weak

This sounds intersting. What is the standard 0/10/30/0/30 hammer/longbow build? Do you have more info as to what runes, amulets and such were used? Also, where did you see this?

naphack.9346:

Spirits give stuff till they get overloaded with bleeds/burn and die.
Minions do stuff till their ai bugs out and they stare at some wall while you get slaughtered.

Banners don’t die, but they do get left behind. Being a mostly melee class means anyone can easily force you away from your banners AOE radius in PvP. Spirits and Minions may not have 100% uptime due to death, or bugs, but smart players can reduce your banner uptime to almost 0%.

naphack.9346:

It raises the morale of the troop, can be used in pairs to give permanent swiftness to an entire party, can be used as a double blast finisher and got some nice other gimmicks(like dealing enough autoattack damage to outdps a ranger greatsword).
Some also heal or give fury, heck, the elite banner rezzes and can give stability.

How many tPvP teams do you see running double banner warriors for the perma swiftness?? Or double warriors of any kind for that matter?

That double blast finisher is not as cushy as it sounds. The banner summon blast finisher is a 120 CD. The #5 Plant is only a 10 second cooldown, but it has NO other effect, it’s only purpose is a blast finisher, with a 1 second CT, AND you have to spend 2-3 seconds getting to, and then picking up your banner. And then when you drop it, there’s a 50% chance it will bug out your weapon swap, leaving you with the wrong weapon, and a swap CD. Lovely.

The healing banner ability is fairly weak too, it heals for 600, and then gives a few seconds of regen. Woohoo. Again, 1 second CT, 1 second picking up the banner, 1-2 seconds to physically get over to it.

How much damage do you think a player can do to you during the 1 second run time, 1 second pickup time, and 1 second cast time, during which you’re completely defenseless, and putting out 0 pressure?

Is it worth the 600 healing + 5 seconds of regen (~700hp)…. lets see, a heal worth 1300 health with an effective cast time of 3 seconds? Go try it, and tell me how viable that is in hotjoin PvP, much less tPvP.

The elite banner is kitten solid though, being able to rez several people.

Everything I’ve said above was mostly aimed towards PvP. If you want to talk PvE or WvW, well…

In PvE, banners are fairly solid. Most mobs are content to sit stupidly inside your banner radius, where it’s passive effects can tick away, buffing your whole party.

In WvW Zerging, banners are fairly useless, as they often get left behind whenever the Zerg moves. You could carry it all day, but then you’re a buffbot, who cant attack. And you’ll never see a WvW roamer using a banner.

So while banners are usable in PvE, this is more a function of mob immobility, rather than banner viability. Shouts are basically a superior version of Banners for any situation where you need to more more than 15 feet in the next few minutes.

How to fix
Easy. I see 3 options here.

Option 1: Banners function line engineer kits. Toggle on/off. On means the banner is in the warriors hands providing the usual bonuses, and off means it’s stowed away somewhere. If 5 is used to plant, the banner remains on the ground, till it is picked up and stowed. Or the ability can be used again to “summon” the planted banner to the warriors feet, with a short, 10s CD.

Option 2: Banners are ‘leashed’ to the warrior, and will be ‘dragged along’ when the warrior moves.

Option 3: One banner can be worn on the Warriors back. Using the banner utility skill places the banner in question on the Warriors back, providing the usual bonuses. While on his back, the Warrior also gains an F2, F3, and F4 button, which corresponds to the #2 #3 and #4 banner skills respectively. Skill #1 and #5 are removed.

i would rather get a move able, damage taking able, active skill usable at range without a long kitten pick up and drop time minions.

I tPvP often on my warrior, among other classes. I’m also in the top 50 solo queue leaderboards currently.

I LOVE banners on warrior in competitive pvp. The permanent regeneration combined with healing signet and adrenal health means my warrior passively heals for 900 HP per second. It’s like having a ranger’s troll unguent activated but permanent and forever.

With energy sigils, I also proc the energy regain by picking up or instantly dropping the banner by swap.

The AoE is larger than the middle circle of Legacy of the Foefire. It is extremely useful in team fights because all of the stats, perma regen, and perma swiftness applies to all teammates.

Banner isn’t without flaws though. If a moron teammate picks up the banner, there is no way to forcibly take back the banner; an idiot could hold the banner and run off with it forever, which sucks due to its long cooldown. The #2 skill on all banners are extremely underwhelming. The #5 skill is a self-inflicted 2 second stun, which is horribad. And the dash is very short range. Banners have many benefits in competitive PvP, as mentioned, though.

Stadig.7325:

Silferas.3841:

MM Necro is a joke, Turret Engi must be a new player (not just to the class, but to the game lol), the only tPvP viable spec you have listed is a spirit ranger. Also, I have no idea what you have been doing in the past few weeks, but warriors are the rising star of pvp as of late (since half the population has quit their mesmers and elementalists). Try the standard 0/10/30/0/30 hammer/longbow build, watch some vids of better players playing the build (phantaram or teldo both ran it for a few matches) and then tell me that warrior is weak

This sounds intersting. What is the standard 0/10/30/0/30 hammer/longbow build? Do you have more info as to what runes, amulets and such were used? Also, where did you see this?

10 – Unsuspecting Foe
30 – Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, Hammer cd/damge increase trait
30 – Signet mastery, Destruction of the Empowered, Burst Mastery

Amulet Valkyrie or Berserker (if the enemy team is more condi than power), runes lyssa

Utils: Healing Sig, Zerker Stance, Balanced stance, 3rd is up to you (some like endure pain, or dolyak sig, or some banner), elite Sig of Rage

Not my build, I think Phantaram came up with it so kudos to him. Personally I use a variation where I put 0/0/30/30/10 for inspiring banners and the other banner trait. Works quite nice with valk amulet

Warrior banners don’t have a HP bar like all the other listed basically our added bonus is our banners are invulnerable and can be used in zergs without them melting like ranger spirits/engi turrets/guardian weapons/ necro minions.

If Anet puts a HP pool on the banners which are as low as the spirit/turret/weapon pools then start complaining for secondary effects.

imo banners are fine as they are.
2cents

Dand.8231:

naphack.9346:

Spirits give stuff till they get overloaded with bleeds/burn and die.
Minions do stuff till their ai bugs out and they stare at some wall while you get slaughtered.

Banners don’t die, but they do get left behind. Being a mostly melee class means anyone can easily force you away from your banners AOE radius in PvP. Spirits and Minions may not have 100% uptime due to death, or bugs, but smart players can reduce your banner uptime to almost 0%.

naphack.9346:

It raises the morale of the troop, can be used in pairs to give permanent swiftness to an entire party, can be used as a double blast finisher and got some nice other gimmicks(like dealing enough autoattack damage to outdps a ranger greatsword).
Some also heal or give fury, heck, the elite banner rezzes and can give stability.

How many tPvP teams do you see running double banner warriors for the perma swiftness?? Or double warriors of any kind for that matter?

That double blast finisher is not as cushy as it sounds. The banner summon blast finisher is a 120 CD. The #5 Plant is only a 10 second cooldown, but it has NO other effect, it’s only purpose is a blast finisher, with a 1 second CT, AND you have to spend 2-3 seconds getting to, and then picking up your banner. And then when you drop it, there’s a 50% chance it will bug out your weapon swap, leaving you with the wrong weapon, and a swap CD. Lovely.

The healing banner ability is fairly weak too, it heals for 600, and then gives a few seconds of regen. Woohoo. Again, 1 second CT, 1 second picking up the banner, 1-2 seconds to physically get over to it.

How much damage do you think a player can do to you during the 1 second run time, 1 second pickup time, and 1 second cast time, during which you’re completely defenseless, and putting out 0 pressure?

Is it worth the 600 healing + 5 seconds of regen (~700hp)…. lets see, a heal worth 1300 health with an effective cast time of 3 seconds? Go try it, and tell me how viable that is in hotjoin PvP, much less tPvP.

The elite banner is kitten solid though, being able to rez several people.

Everything I’ve said above was mostly aimed towards PvP. If you want to talk PvE or WvW, well…

In PvE, banners are fairly solid. Most mobs are content to sit stupidly inside your banner radius, where it’s passive effects can tick away, buffing your whole party.

In WvW Zerging, banners are fairly useless, as they often get left behind whenever the Zerg moves. You could carry it all day, but then you’re a buffbot, who cant attack. And you’ll never see a WvW roamer using a banner.

So while banners are usable in PvE, this is more a function of mob immobility, rather than banner viability. Shouts are basically a superior version of Banners for any situation where you need to more more than 15 feet in the next few minutes.

How to fix
Easy. I see 3 options here.

Option 1: Banners function line engineer kits. Toggle on/off. On means the banner is in the warriors hands providing the usual bonuses, and off means it’s stowed away somewhere. If 5 is used to plant, the banner remains on the ground, till it is picked up and stowed. Or the ability can be used again to “summon” the planted banner to the warriors feet, with a short, 10s CD.

Option 2: Banners are ‘leashed’ to the warrior, and will be ‘dragged along’ when the warrior moves.

Option 3: One banner can be worn on the Warriors back. Using the banner utility skill places the banner in question on the Warriors back, providing the usual bonuses. While on his back, the Warrior also gains an F2, F3, and F4 button, which corresponds to the #2 #3 and #4 banner skills respectively. Skill #1 and #5 are removed.

So a stationary source of stats and regen is useless in a node control minigame where the whole point is running along the edges of a circle and outlasting your opponent?
Wtf, just drop it right at the cap point and you can dance around as much as you like.

You pointed out the biggest weaknesses of banners yourself: Long , self-rooting animations when attempting to use the banner on-the-fly.
If there was a more fluent way of picking up the banners, they would be absolutely fine, imho.

Change the utility to become a chained 2 part skill.

First to place, second to pick up.

When picked up have banners replace the offhand weapon so you can still use bursts and weaponswap while looking cool (eg. sword in one hand, banner in the other!) and just change the 4 and 5 skills to be banners 2 and 3 skills.

If you weapon swap to a two-handed weapon the banner can become attached to your back but still replace the 4 and 5 skills (just have different character animation when you cast them to reflect not having them in your hand at the time).

If you go the whole way to make banners like kits you take something away from the uniqueness of the engi class so if you do this the banner is still usable but different enough from the engi kits.

naphack.9346:

So a stationary source of stats and regen is useless in a node control minigame where the whole point is running along the edges of a circle and outlasting your opponent?
Wtf, just drop it right at the cap point and you can dance around as much as you like.

The scenario you mentioned will never happen in PvP outside of hotjoin. Here’s why…

First off: Bunker warriors are fail in tPvP. A Bunker Guard will easily outshine a Bunker Warrior with a Regen banner.

And since you’re not a point camping Bunker Warrior, you wont have banner regen, because the role you’ll need to fill does not leave trait room for it. Getting it, would make you far less effective at filling your required role.

Second: Warriors dont have room for Banners on their utility bar with their current functionality. In PvP, you need at LEAST 1 stunbreak and stability (doly/balanced), Zerker Stance to counter the condi-meta, and then probably either Endure, or the second Stun/Stab (doly/balanced) depending on circumstances. There’s no room to bring clunky banners in PvP, there are about a dozen skills that would be better than banners, and they still got left off the bar in favor of the game changer skills you really need to have. Thats why Banners use is largely limited to PvE and WvW.

naphack.9346:

You pointed out the biggest weaknesses of banners yourself: Long , self-rooting animations when attempting to use the banner on-the-fly.
If there was a more fluent way of picking up the banners, they would be absolutely fine, imho.

The biggest weakness isnt the long self rooting animation it’s, the distance between yourself and your planted banner.

Seriously, try this…. go spectate some warriors in even just hotjoin PvP, and count how many use 7-9 banners. You’ll find very very few.

Now go watch in WvW, and see the banner users. You’ll find one or two every so often, they’re out there. But they rarely run more than a single 7-9 banner.

Now check PvE warriors. Notice how almost half of them run a banner, and some run 2-3 banners.

So none in PvP
Ssome in WvW
Lots in PvE

PvP requires constant frantic movement, moving to adjust to your enemies strategy.
WvW requires plenty of non-combat movement across fields, but most battles are long sieges at gates, and stationary battles at keep lords and camps.
PvE requires little to no movement, with mobs gleefully standing still forever.

See the common factor? Banner usage is directly proportionate to how much movement from one location to another takes place, during combat.

Banners should be wearable, following the warrior around, in the same way that shouts “follow” the warrior, minions follow a necro, pets and spirits follow a ranger, mes clones follow their target, thief summons follow their target, even guardian symbols “follow” a guardian in that they’re such short duration/cd they can be recast constantly at a new appropriate location.