Guild Wars 2

From the suggested changes one thing i think should be changed is the amount of weight in the choices on the defence line.

Across all other lines they seem more balanced it terms of weight, however having shield master, dogged march and armored attack in Adept seems a little heavy.

One suggestion maybe to swap Thick skin and have armored attacks or even dogged march as the last minor?

Cleansing ire may be a grandmaster trait now, (i only say this now as we can only pick 3 trait lines anyway so why not) and then have sundering mace in the major line?

This way every line still has some weight to it, but its a bit more balanced.

As a warrior this would certainly make my build more viable.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: After some conversation below i think this is where i stand.

Thick skin – Remove and replace or buff this trait and place in the Adept line, see suggestion for buff below by Juba.

Adept Trait Armored Attacks – Move this to a minor trait like we had before, replacing thick skin.

Adept Trait Dogged March – This stays put.

Adept Trait Sheild Mastery – Move this to a Grandmaster Trait, because it is so strong now and is worth Grand Master.

Andrenal Health – Questionable on gaining health for max andren and possibly should be gain health on burst dependant on andrenaline level.

Master Trait Last Stand – Stays put, maybe remove the vigor

Master Trait Cull the Weak – Needs to be buffed in some form as in its current state no one take this

Master Trait Cleansing Ire – QUESTIONABLE as to whether this should swap with Spiked armor.
REASONING – Cleansing ire is a no brainer trait, and makes all other traits pretty much void in this part. If cleansing ire was placed as minor trait would open up more build variety here. Spiked armor is also very strong to have as a minor trait.

Spiked Armor – see Cleansing Ire [REASONING]

Grandmaster Trait Sundering Mace – Could be swapped into an Adept Trait to open up space for Sheild Mastery. Also allowing synergy for Mace and Shield.

Grandmaster Trait Endure Pain – Stays Put

Grandmaster Trait Rousing Resilience – Questionable trait may need a change, dont know anybody that uses it.*

Discuss!

I will use armored attack over dogged march. Not every enemy gives immo, chilled, or cripple, so -40%Condi reduction food for these condi’s are acceptable. You have the cleans the heavy Condi’s anyway.

Yes Shield Master and Dogged March are better than the GM traits.

i wont mind making Shield Master a GM trait, although it would conflict with Sundering Mace.

I suggested making Dogged March a minor trait in place of Thick Skin here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Delete-Thick-Skin-Move-Dogged-March/first

Cleansing Ire could be a minor trait too, since almost every warrior is going to take it.

I think dogged march might be a little OP as a minor when i think about it. Armored attacks should be a minor

1) it was there already
2) its been reduced in effectiveness
3) Dogged march should have some weight on it and remain a selection.

I think its interesting your point about cleansing ire, because it is pretty much a must have if youd go onto this line to have any chance vs condi.
However it would be a very strong minor trait to have, i think having it in the grandmaster position (because it is so great) and the current choices in grandmaster dont seem to strong (other than auto endure pain, which personally i never use).

Maybe we could swap one of the master traits with dogged march too? Just a suggestion.

^^^

there is no difference between a GM trait and an adept one if you are forced to take the whole line.

Fast Hands is our best trait but still a minor.

Combining Shield Traits was a demanded feature but putting it in the same tier as Dogged March is not, currently you could trait Dogged March > Cleansing Ire > Missile Deflection, But with the new system you cant pick an Adept trait in GM slot, thats why Dogged March needs to be moved or Shield Master moved to GM.

Also Cull the Weak is too Weak :P compared to Last Stand and Cleansing Ire, it would be better combined with Sundering Mace .

I think the ideal solution would be:

1) Move armored attacks to minor trait and replace thick skin
2) Move sheild master GM because it is really strong now
3) Move cleansing ire to minor trait 3 position, and place spiked armor in its place.

Really, at the moment it looks like Defense line and Discipline line is pretty much going to be locked in for all warriors. just because defense has so many great traits, and fast hands is a must have (IMO). Bit of a shame as this leaves all warriors pretty much running hte same. And a majority would go into strength.

EDIT: Edited what i think should change after re reading Juba’s comments (and being an idiot an misunderstand GM xD) i think he has the right idea

Had an idea about Thick Skin.

check the image below and tell me what do think.

Juba.8406:

Had an idea about Thick Skin.

check the image below and tell me what do think.

Yeah..nope. The defense traitline is fine as it is outside of this ugly thick skin. I would prefer to make it 5% damage reduction under 50% hp (like revenant trait) and call it a day.

^^^

xD i think you were a bit hasty , its now 2 traits in one, check again.

it even got a great synergy with Defy Pain.

Juba.8406:

^^^

xD i think you were a bit hasty , its now 2 traits in one, check again.

it even got a great synergy with Defy Pain.

I know what it is

Clean ire, dogger march, sundering mace/defy pain/armored atk, spiked armor, shield mastery and thats all in one package. A way to go for every build leaving rest completely useless. Nop. Why you guys want to create op builds that will get nerfed into ground either way? Enough with this easy mode mentality already. These traits are placed this way with a good reason – to make choices.

And since defense line is about…defense it doesnt make much sense. That 5% damage reduction fits it way better.

It wouldnt be an OP build, the traits are already in the game, and at present we can mix and match, so my suggestion is to allow us to have those again, rather than nerfing it.

Far from OP.

Regarding Juba’s post, i see where you are coming from, but i think armored attacks should be a minor and spiked armor is strong so should be one of the select.

I cureently run thick skin —> shield maser --> andrenal health —> cleansing ire --> armored attacks and then either use dogged or last stand or reflect missiles depending on the situation.

In this case im suggesting that i get i can have a similar build: armored attacks —> dogged march --> andrenal health —> last stand --> cleansing ire—> sheild mastery.

To be honest id just be happy if they moved sheild mastery to GM and armoured attacks back to minor.

Its not OP, sure its slightly buffed with the sheild mastery trait, but thats why i place it in GM, because they are suppose to be strong, and every other class is get some buffs.

Scoobaniec.9561:

I know what it is

Clean ire, dogger march, sundering mace/defy pain/armored atk, spiked armor, shield mastery and thats all in one package. A way to go for every build leaving rest completely useless. Nop. Why you guys want to create op builds that will get nerfed into ground either way? Enough with this easy mode mentality already. These traits are placed this way with a good reason – to make choices.

And since defense line is about…defense it doesnt make much sense. That 5% damage reduction fits it way better.

You had to choose in Master, since Now there is no black hole Trait there called Cleansing Ire.

i still think the new thick skin (thick skin + Desperate power) is now better and it even makes Defy Pain good to couple with, 4s immunity with 20% more Damage.

Culling the Weak a bit dull, but GM traits are now better worth of a GM status, Last stand, Shield Master and Rousing Resilience.

False. The traits are already ingame in a form of weaker version. Right now you can have dogger march, cleansing ire, shield mastery or reflect along with armored atk.

And now thats where the op part comes in; with these proposed changes in screenshot you gain too much for a single line;

-Reduced cd on shield/mace along with reflection leading to insane reflect uptime or nearly free panic button in form of trait at 25% hp based on a choice.
-Soft cc reduction
-Condi cleanse on burst
-50% retal uptime

Nop, it doesnt sounds op by any means. Now post that screenshot in spvp forum and ask what other classes think about it. These changes are insane, simple as that. We should be happy that now we can have access to 50% retal uptime just by choosing def line.

Thick skin sux, theres no doubt about it and its need to be deleted/reworked. But current trait placement from stream on it own is fine. Theres olny one bad placed trait and is trait for axe sharing the same spot with berserker power.

Ok – then

1) Armored attack should replace thick skin (because thick skin is rubbish and armored attacks was in originally) issue?

2) Adept trait should have at least 1 moved, because 3 strong is way to heavy a choice when we could ooriinally have all 3 if wanted. Which should be sheild master because it is so strong to GM. Issue?

3) Remove spiked armor as a minor because its going to be OP anyway, and place it as a select on maybe place cull the weak in its place because it is weaker.

Im just looking for moderation, not making it OP. And this is from what PoI suggested not the screenshot in this thread.

So what id get would be on a similar level to what i get now

Reduction on movement impeding condis
Condi cleanse on burst
Reduced cd on sheild + reflects (because it is buffed)

The only reason we suggested cleansing ire as a minor trait was because it is a no brainer trait to take making anything else in the ‘choices’…well, not a choice.

Well that could work as well (if i understand it right) but at same time you kittening synergy with mace/shield which is bad. Imo in stream setup which is fine to me you have to make choice between;

-Adept; dogger march and shield mastery from pvp point as i dont see many ppl taking armored attack over these 2.

-Master; trained stances, cleansing ire. Theres no doubt that cull the weak is still weak (oh the irony) and should apply weakness at 50% hp along with 10% damage to consider it over balance stance/cleansing ire
-Gm; sundring mace, endure pain, resilence

Overall these combinations allow for different possibilities but i cannot imagine taking someone trained stances over cleansing ire. At this point it would be better to swap balance stance with endure pain as while some people will still consider endure pain as option in master, nobody will consider balance stance without vigor+increased duration. And thats basically its all i would have done.

Ok to avoid kittening – My proposal still applies, however move sheild master to GM, and place sundering mace into adept?

Updated main message to see what you guys think.

VagaMule.1658:

Grandmaster Trait Rousing Resilience – Questionable trait may need a change, dont know anybody that uses it.

I use it in PvP, when running berserker builds. Do you know that it triggers unconditionally each time you activate Balanced Stance? This means you get at will a +1000 armor for 8s every 40s, and possibly more often if you factor in some stun breakers, like Endure Pain.

It is ideal to prepare melee bursts: receiving less damage and not being interrupted while applying the burst. Lots of people actually whine about this in hotjoin, calling the skill trash when they see my template, but not understanding a bit why it is they don’t do much damage in the first place…

Ohhh! Sounds good! Thanks for that Elegie, ive never really experimented with it!

I guess using with endure pain youd only really have 4s after thats run out of it but i guess thatd still be useful!

VagaMule.1658:

Ok to avoid kittening – My proposal still applies, however move sheild master to GM, and place sundering mace into adept?

why shield master to grandmaster…it’s not that good to begin with…I think there are more usefull traits that should be in grandmaster

Well – what would you suggest in GM?

Shield Master after the changes will be very good since it will merge 3 current traits into 1.

I think thats worth GM – maybe you dont use shield doesnt mean it it isnt a powerful trait.

There’s no point in swapping minors in the same trait line…

you will have to go full trait line anyway..

@above merging 3 useless adept trait doesn’t make it a grand master trait.
( you can argue that reflection is useful in duels but w/e)
merging 1 ok adept trait and 2 useless adept trait doesnt make a grand master trait.

Of course there is – it allows more synergy think about it.

Id argue that all 3 traits are useful. Reduced recharge on sheild kills = more cc/blocks = more surviability. Its almost like having endure pain again sooner which oh wait, is a GM trait with only 4s and 60s cd.

Im guessing you dont play shield?

Swap “Defy Pain” for the new “Last Stand”

tbh I like shield master trait…tho like someone else already stated…it’s not that great…and doesn’t need to be a GM trait..if this is suppoesed to become a GM trait would mean the GM traits for warrior will be low quality…( again) yes I think atm warrior except on shoutbow is poor…. no need to rage or discuss on this opnion for they will be changed…just saying don’t turn the warrior into a poor class again being locked into one weapon as a bread and butter (longbow)