Guild Wars 2

Vanthian.9267:

I know it has been said but you are proving my point by posting a Warrior video of him almost going under to a under level “not so good” thief. In a fair 1v1 fight Warrior (any build) vs Dagger/Pistol Thief, the Thief will win if he is not 1) Under leveled, 2) Bad at his class, 3) Makes more than 10 mistakes. In the case of (1) he still might win if he is skilled. Only (2) and (3) really make a thief lose to a Warrior. At worst, if the Thief realizes the Warrior is a tank and he can’t “one shot” him, he will just stealth and run away.

What does it take for a skilled Warrior to lose a fight? 1) One Mistake at any level with any gear against any class.

Your assessment makes me feel like a pro warrior.

In WvW, the only thing warriors can somewhat excel at is AOE dps/CC with Hammer and Longbow. GS gives more skirmish/1v1 benefits. Axe doesn’t really give alot of help besides small skirmishes and 1v1’s. I don’t know of another other class than can apply aoe CC/dps as easily (mind you, this depends on builds). With stability/endure pain, a warrior can Earthshaker, staggering blow, AOE cripple (snare if traited), Stomp, Fear me, Combustive shot, and arcing arrow with just Longbow/Hammer. I don’t run Hammer/long bow, but I always carry a longbow with my Hammer/sword-shield build. Hammer is really subpar in PvE, but in WvW it shines the most out of all the weapon sets for warriors. If you spec properly, you can easily get some huge dps numbers and be more tanky than the average glass cannon warriors that run around.

Personally, I believe warriors fair pretty well in WvW, its PvP where we suffer the most, and some of our bugged utilities.

Playing a norn warrior with hammer gets frustrating fast.. people dodge your stuns like crazy >.<

Main thing that makes me log from my warrior to my ele atm is just survival, no matter how much damage I drop from my warrior I will never be able to last as long as my ele can in the front lines. The frequency of condition cleansing/healing (water attunement every 9s) and constant regens adds so much really.

We really do require the backup of a group more than other classes imo, people to heal/cleanse/protect and most of all – draw fire.

I’ve tried Hammer/Longbow on occasion, and I think my regular build is somewhat similar/the same as yours Coaxial – main issue I have with it is mobility, once your in you ain’t getting out.

My two main characters are a lvl 80 warrior and lvl 80 thief. I can tell you without a doubt that the warrior is better for wvw. The warrior is far far more useful for my team/server than a thief ever is. I run a hammer shout heal build with p/v/t gear and a few clerics pieces. It is very hard to kill me as long as I’m next to our commander (who runs with a guardian group that is constantly aoe healing). We take on zergs way bigger than us and still win (as long as the enemy zerg isn’t using the same tactics, then it gets interesting).

The only strengths a thief has is killing long players and killing dolys. If you are spending your time in wvw, taking up a que spot, and only killing single players who cross your path, then you are helping no one. If it was a case of denying reinforcements that would be okay, but that is only useful if you are killing a whole lot of people in a short time span, and most thieves need to wait for their cooldowns before the next attack. And the thief just gets demolished in any sizable zerg. Now if you don’t want to run with your zerg then the thief is better, but usually the most helpful thing you can do is run with a medium size zerg that is doing productive things (granted, I’m in T1 and we always usually always have good commanders).

Depends how you define suck… if you move with the zergs as glass cannon rifle war, you can get insane amounts of kills

I’m playing a warrior using hammer, using shouts to remove conditions plus Soldier Rune and I’m doing pretty well against many classes, 1v1 or group fights. Once I played against 5 BG trying to take over a camp and pwned em all. Warrior is an awesome class to play on WvW.

Vanthian.9267:

I know it has been said but you are proving my point by posting a Warrior video of him almost going under to a under level “not so good” thief. In a fair 1v1 fight Warrior (any build) vs Dagger/Pistol Thief, the Thief will win if he is not 1) Under leveled, 2) Bad at his class, 3) Makes more than 10 mistakes. In the case of (1) he still might win if he is skilled. Only (2) and (3) really make a thief lose to a Warrior. At worst, if the Thief realizes the Warrior is a tank and he can’t “one shot” him, he will just stealth and run away.

What does it take for a skilled Warrior to lose a fight? 1) One Mistake at any level with any gear against any class.

It’s funny when someone says it’s “impossible” for X to kill Y.
Please get reality check.

Dagger/Pistol Thieves are a complete joke to any decent Warrior – regardless of the Thief’s level of skill.
The chance they get a good Warrior down is really low and if it happens it’s pure luck.
Sorry but the moment you approach you get 10k+ dmg in a second, it’s not about our defense it’s about: you get oneshot in melee with me so you cannot kill me with your mainhand.

Not all people are stupid and don’t know where a stealthed Thief is, I exactly know the pattern a Thief will take because I played one myself a lot.
Infact when I think he’s near I pop my burst and start /dance.
A few second later a guy on the ground is lending his hand to me saying “why did you do this to me? I was stealthed!”.

Seriously not every Warrior is a “Bull+HB or die” joke.

^ Agreed that warriors shouldn’t be pwned by most thieves. If your in WvW or even sPvP, a decent warrior will either have enough toughness to resist the initial burst of the thief and dodge in time to break the thief, or run either endure pain/defy pain/shield block to negate the burst, Which usually results in a huge disadvantage for thieves.

I roll a Hammer/sword-shield Warrior with 2.8k armor, and Backstab/heartseeker thiefs pose almost no threat to me. Condition thiefs can be slightly more problematic with short bow kiting and death blossom spams, but direct damage thievess aren’t really a problem. If you play warrior long enough, you’ll learn to get some kinda defense against burst direct damage classes like thieves, even glass cannon warriors.

Red Falcon.8257:

Not all people are stupid and don’t know where a stealthed Thief is, I exactly know the pattern a Thief will take because I played one myself a lot.
Infact when I think he’s near I pop my burst and start /dance.
A few second later a guy on the ground is lending his hand to me saying “why did you do this to me? I was stealthed!”.

Seriously not every Warrior is a “Bull+HB or die” joke.

Yeah… sure.
Everything you just said is basically claiming that you win because you have telepathy and/or can see the future. /eyeroll

Sorry but somehow I don’t believe in your mutant mental powers of prediction. I do believe you get lucky at times, but that’s all it is. Guessing. There’s 360 degrees of potential movement, which direction am I going to pick?

Braxxus.2904:

Red Falcon.8257:

Not all people are stupid and don’t know where a stealthed Thief is, I exactly know the pattern a Thief will take because I played one myself a lot.
Infact when I think he’s near I pop my burst and start /dance.
A few second later a guy on the ground is lending his hand to me saying “why did you do this to me? I was stealthed!”.

Seriously not every Warrior is a “Bull+HB or die” joke.

Yeah… sure.
Everything you just said is basically claiming that you win because you have telepathy and/or can see the future. /eyeroll

Sorry but somehow I don’t believe in your mutant mental powers of prediction. I do believe you get lucky at times, but that’s all it is. Guessing. There’s 360 degrees of potential movement, which direction am I going to pick?

I have only been on my warrior for about a week and a half at 80 and thieves(what I was playing before warrior) really arent a problem they are trying to attack you the only thing that would get you killed is chasing them and they have 1 get out of jail card left. Pretty much they are easy if burst thieves. P/D is a bit tougher as falcon said but I roll sig of stamina anyway.

Against dagger/pistol theives just stand in the blackpowder circle and 100bs or whirlwind it. If you stand in it they can only heartseeker in it 1 time so you hurt them already there either forcing them to attack right away or go somewhere else to bp/hs again and you repeat if you can reach the spot. Either way they are stalling to try and open anyway. I don’t just burst thin air like Falcon but I usually block after about 2 secs with shield bait some dodges bullcharge, flurry a few strikes, swap with hydro sigil for freeze and then 100bs. That is usually enough to do them in or make them pop refuge at that point its reset fight and you just leave if they chase you then you have about 45 secs to pwn them with no refuge ready.

As far as WvW goes if you are trying to do what a thief does on a warrior then thats not going to happen where you can fight 4-5+ people and come out on top its much easier to do on thief. Thats not really what a warrior is about though you can definitely do 2-3 given right comps and skill level of course but it all depends on what you like to do on each class really.

Preamble: I have an 80 Warrior (first toon), 80 Guardian and 80 Thief….all top geared. I also have a 70 Ranger plus I’ve dabbled in every other class to learn mechanics and such.

Now my $0.02:

My Guardian is better in an assault role such as hitting enemy groups, but has less ability to disengage. I have never tried him bunker so can’t comment there.

My Thief is much better 1v1 and harrassing back lines. Also pretty wicked in zergs with shortbow. And he can engage or disengage at will.

My Ranger (so far), is also better 1v1 and has better survivability than my warrior as well. Fun class once you get the condition cleanse trait.

That said, for team play, my warrior is pretty awesome with a banner and a 0/0/30/30/10 configuration running a hammer and a longbow. Near constant uptime with Signet of Rage, lots of regen for himself (200 per tick in Knight gear, 350 or so in cleric gear) and the group, perma-swiftness for himself and almost for group, decent CC, nice artillery shots with longbow and oodles of survivability (although less than a bunker Guardian from what I understand).

So warriors have at least one role (utility) in WvW they are pretty good at. However, I suspect a lot of disatisfaction with them is based on it not being a role a class with the name “warrior” would be doing.

As usual with all advice, ymmv.

I agree with the sentiment that power thieves aren’t really an issue on my warrior, except perhaps sword ones cos they’re so freaking mobile. I think d/d glass thieves were the easiest target for me in WvW with hammer build, p/d were the annoying ones.

I do however maintain that for group fighting you really need to have backup you can trust – even vs equal numbers being the only melee you’re toast. They certainly don’t suck for WvW but not as versatile as some classes can be. Taking on larger numbers for instance (I mean say 5-10 vs double numbers), I could manage it on my warrior fine when we had a fairly consistent group with guardian/ele’s boosting survival, but without them around larger numbers is just not feasable due to lack of sustained healing and the abundance of chill+cripple. However in those same situations my ele, or mesmer, can run around just fine throwing out damage and make it out alive at the end.

Against bigger numbers you basically need a group that will support you, both in terms of following into the fight and keeping you up. Whilst this in general does sound fairly obvious and – for lack of better phrasing – “Duh”, it’s certainly not true for all classes. For instance the poster above who said he survives great when he’s next to his commanders guardian group… well of course you will >.>

I’d just like for some depth to be added to the warrior, a little more skill ceiling (note: I do not think I’m awesome, just feels you can squeeze more from others). Stances as suggested in a few locations I think would be a good start, Adrenaline does need an overhaul I feel as asides from 1-2 weapons theres too little reason to spend. More abilities taking +effect from adrenaline would be nice, like Adrenaline Surge does.

I try play my warrior whenever I can, but with the change in our group setup it’s getting less and less playtime… not helped by being a norn with mega-obvious hammer animations that everyone dodges/side-steps out the way of

Erm.. ye.. basically, remove the requirement to be babysat from the kitten class philosophy! :P

If your a warrior you should be running PVT/Runes of the soldier with shouts. This is one of the greatest builds you can have. You have an incredible amount of tank. Then I’d run GS and Sword/Axe for immobilize and whirlwind for bag farming.

Just throwing this out there but I find it very funny when WvW players say a warrior should be able to handle a thief easily in sPvP LOL

Most thieves you run into in sPvP use higher burst specs since they don’t need to worry about running into large groups and getting away is easier on those small maps with their walls and platforms. On top of that to be successful in sPvP as a warrior you kinda have to be bursty yourself, since a warrior can’t bunker for crap in sPvP, so those 8-12k backstabs tend to do quite a bit of damage before you realize what’s going on lol

Goloith.6349:

If your a warrior you should be running PVT/Runes of the soldier with shouts. This is one of the greatest builds you can have. You have an incredible amount of tank. Then I’d run GS and Sword/Axe for immobilize and whirlwind for bag farming.

Basicly your a guardian with less survivability and damage. :/

oZii.2864:

As far as WvW goes if you are trying to do what a thief does on a warrior then thats not going to happen where you can fight 4-5+ people and come out on top its much easier to do on thief. Thats not really what a warrior is about though you can definitely do 2-3 given right comps and skill level of course but it all depends on what you like to do on each class really.

It should be though. Thieves are invisible 1-hitter gank artists. They should get those 1-2 people like they do, but the harrassing 4-5+ is what a WARRIOR should be doing. Wading into enemy forces and thriving on in-your-face battle. I mean if we’re talking thematically here.

Braxxus.2904:

Yeah… sure.
Everything you just said is basically claiming that you win because you have telepathy and/or can see the future. /eyeroll

Sorry but somehow I don’t believe in your mutant mental powers of prediction. I do believe you get lucky at times, but that’s all it is. Guessing. There’s 360 degrees of potential movement, which direction am I going to pick?

It’s no mutant mental power, it’s called basic l2p of the Warrior.
If you die to Thieves on a Warrior you’re still on the bottom of the Warrior food chain sorry, the “hardmode” challenges for Warriors are killing D/D Eles and tanky Mesmer.
If you don’t believe I can boil water just like anyone else in this world, I do tournaments daily with my guild, we can let a spot for you to show you how to play.

Pretty sure any other Warrior here can show you too, Defektive could probably teach you to stomp them with Hammer as well.

Video please

15 char

actually if it’s axe/shield gs vid nevermind

Don’t underestimate a mix of Berserker and Cavalier gear. With the right consumables, you can run a devastating mix of high Toughness, Precision, Power and Crit Damage. It’s the way to run for WvW, I’d say. Pack some condition removal too and you’re going to be a menace. Thieves? You’ll eat them for breakfast, lunch and dinner in a straight up fight.

Full PVT with healing shouts has become the WAMMO of Guild Wars 2, unfortunately. I’ve never found it particularly effective for making a difference in WvW.

Suck? No.

But conditions like cripple and frozen being spammed on you will quickly make you a worthless waste of server space. Too many utilities are needed to survive in large fights to bring enough condition removal.

Once you limp your way into the enemy group you will only have a few short seconds to do damage before you have to back out and recharge due to reliance on things like Endure Pain. Unless you quickly wipe the enemy out, or they start running away. Or they just don’t target you. Sometimes you get lucky.

If you can manage to flank or get into the backline of squishy targets you can be pretty effective. Unfortunately you need a good group or guild to do this with, as charging in solo just makes you look like a moron. Then you normally die without support.

My best advice is never be the first one to charge in, as you need to avoid being crippled as long as possible to do any damage. Most of our gap closing abilities have greatly reduced range while slowed.

Warriors are just as squishy as any other class once their survivability cooldowns are gone. Just takes practice to know when to get in and out.

Murderin.8269:

But conditions like cripple and frozen being spammed on you will quickly make you a worthless waste of server space. Too many utilities are needed to survive in large fights to bring enough condition removal.

Warhorn with Quick Breathing and shouts with Soldier runes.

Olba.5376:

Murderin.8269:

But conditions like cripple and frozen being spammed on you will quickly make you a worthless waste of server space. Too many utilities are needed to survive in large fights to bring enough condition removal.

Warhorn with Quick Breathing and shouts with Soldier runes.

Support builds are boring to play.

Murderin, I have to say I disagree with your assessment.
I find it quite easy and effective to charge into a Zerg first with charge or savage leap, and then pop out my hammer and do some CC, fear me, and cause havoc amongst the enemy ranks. Combined with endure pain and shield block, you can negate a lot of the heat other squishier players may take, particularly if you get in early enough (but not too early

Well, I always have to shake my head when I see Red Falcon post. I put up a tanky shout heal build with optimized dps while maintaining 3300 armor and 26k health and his retort to me was “l2p noob, I optimized better, look at my 5000 effective power.” While he proceeded to make a warrior build that was basically glass, had less armor, 5k less health, and had 0 points in tactics where I was running shout heals. You could tell him that you made the perfect combination for chocolate milk, he would say he could teach you better, and come back with a glass of orange juice telling you that you did it all wrong. He is an individual that has spent far too much time facerolling against dragons and “legendary” bosses in dungeons and, sadly, too much time telling people to build glass for large scale WvW. He would like you to believe that any warrior that doesn’t use an axe/axe and GS build is a total scrub and needs to learn to play.

To answer your question, OP, Warriors are incredibly viable in WvW in just about any capacity. When you get ganked by a thief with half a clue for the first time, you will probably die, even fully geared. This is because you have a learning curve that you are sitting behind, but you will overcome it. Shout heal warriors are incredible for a group dynamic and anyone that claims Guardians “do it better 100%” is clearly misinformed. You see, balance between Guardians and Warriors in your front lines is essential. If you build like Red Falcon, your attitude is “kitten my team, I don’t want to support them or waste my time on tanky stats, all I need is my frenzy+endure pain+100b and all my zerker gear and I can kill whole zergs.” The reason a group needs both Guardians and Warriors is that Guardians are giving out, mainly, stability, protection, and retaliation, 3 things that warriors generally lack, sans balanced stance, and therefore need to be EVEN more tanky. Guardians, however, lack damage. Warriors are there to help, stacking fury and might on each other and the Guardians. Your Guardians give you even more might and all of the sudden you are a 26k health, 3300 armor Juggernaut with a permanently increased crit chance by 20%, stability, protection, retaliation, and 20+ stacks of might. I’d like to see a glass warrior make it past that.

The sad truth is there is this thing called the dodge skill, and after that 100b ends, that warrior gets properly dumped on. If you run in any sort of large group in WvW, you will need passive survivability stats. A 3 second “invuln” simply will not suffice with a 90 second cooldown. Not to mention, conditions are the killer of the warrior in WvW, not raw damage, 90% of the time (try to run through a choke as glass, even with endure pain on, those conditions will tear you apart). And if you live through their stacks of Necro marks and glamour fields, okay then, so you lived for 3 WHOLE seconds with your glass build, now what do you do when that warrior line you are facing, doesn’t go down from your burst? What do you do when you realize you have roughly 2400 armor compared to their 3300? (and that is IF you have any toughness) And all their cooldowns are still up and their ranged are still lighting you up doing all the damage he sacrificed in order to CC you into oblivion. I beat the hell out of warriors that build glass on a daily basis and Red Falcon is not someone who understands large scale WvW, 450+ person guild or not. If I wanted to do that same fallacy, I’d tell you that my guild runs all shout heal warriors because we rely on our ranged classes to dish out most of the deeps and I lead a 350 person guild on a tier 1 server so does that make me more important than other commenters? No. You should take my opinion into consideration, but not because of who I am, simply because of my experiences. In a large group, it isn’t the job of the warrior to do damage. You will do damage innately well because you can get away with not putting as many stats into defense because you have the highest base health and armor in the game. Anyone that tells you that you can build glass because of that, though, is clearly and idiot and hasn’t played anywhere near a server where a person knows how to press “dodge”.

Now, I generally think that anyone who says “l2p” is a kitten and is way too high on their own stuff to think objectively about a situation or a build. If you are running in a small group, you don’t need all the cleanses from soldier runes, you don’t need all the heals from 30 in tactics for shouts, and you don’t need to be running PTV armor. HOWEVER, if you are running in a larger group, it is your RESPONSIBILITY to be tanky enough to keep that enemy front from getting to your “carries”, which is your ranged dps. My guild has made the decision to also have our warriors run shout heals because we need our front line to be alive. Red Falcon’s experience in tournaments, while valid, reflects a very different aspect of WvW than I generally take part in. He appears to be a small roamer, no matter how large his guild is. I say this because glass warriors last just about as long in a fight as their endure pain’s duration (sometimes less). Even if they are his version of “tanky” dps, it’s more dps and sort of forgot about the tanky part. Tanky implies that you can take damage and be fine, the builds he subscribes to running simply cannot, which is why he has to run Endure Pain on his bar. I don’t have endure pain on my bar, I don’t spec into Defy Pain, and I don’t need to. 26k health means conditions hurt less, 3300 armor means normal attacks hurt a LOT less. I’ve had thieves try to “burst” me, and ended up still having 15k health after they are out of gas. Red Falcon lives in a world where being “tanky” means you are bad. He thinks every player should run glass because “you have invulns and can dodge, bro”, well I have news for you, try that one time in a 30v30 open field fight, and you will get toasted. Promise.

So, really, pick your poison. If you want to do more damage, you can run Axes or at least Axe offhand and you can run with a GS with more damage oriented runes and armor/trinkets/traits, but remember if you want to participate in larger fights and feel effective without having to try and drop a 100b to run away with 10% health, you need more survivability, and warriors are one of the BEST classes at healing/cleansing allies. The issue I have with glass in a large fight is they have the highest potential to do damage, but also the highest potential to die. You mix that in with little ability to truly disengage (your invlun is still susceptible to CC and conditions), your movement skills are all effected by cripple/chill/immobilize, AND YOU ARE ON TOP OF YOUR OPPONENT TRYING TO MELEE THEM. A tankier build with less base damage will be doing that damage long after you’ve given your badges to some nasty invader. Is it worth it to see the big numbers of 12k (maybe more if you land the whole thing) from a 100b and then be out of a fight because you can’t survive longer than 1 round, or is it more worth it to be balls deep dishing out CC, healing and cleansing your allies/self, and still doing very good damage.

TL;DR: Glass/More offensive builds can work for smaller scale fighting in WvW, but larger fights require higher survivability skills, traits, and armor/runes or you won’t be having a whole lot of fun.

My professional recommendation: 0/0/20/30/20 or 0/0/25/30/15 or 10/0/20/30/10 with PTV armor, soldier runes, and weapons and trinkets to your liking. Hammer/Sword-Shield/Warhorn

AdamHughes.4306:

Murderin, I have to say I disagree with your assessment.
I find it quite easy and effective to charge into a Zerg first with charge or savage leap, and then pop out my hammer and do some CC, fear me, and cause havoc amongst the enemy ranks. Combined with endure pain and shield block, you can negate a lot of the heat other squishier players may take, particularly if you get in early enough (but not too early

Try solo charging a zerg in T1

The current state of the warrior is good but not great. where the class really shines is its ability to pump out dps, witch Imo is really the only way for the warrior to be currently played. GS, Axe, Hammer, Rifle and Lb all have the ability to hit over 10k on 80’s. while Sword and mace can hit in the 4 – 7k range in Wv3. what we need is our sustainability/condition removal fixed.

Our defensive/support builds can’t compare to what support elles/guards bring to a group, shouts are mediocre at best and your dmg is that of a wet noddle. we lack the proper access to the two most important boons in the game in order to take any kind of damage witch is Protection and Regen to provide us with sustainability in a fight.

We also have poor condition removal, not only do you have to build for it, you also have to run a full rune set, in just an attempt to control how much conditions can be constantly spam’d on you.

Pretty much

Damage – Great, we don’t need anymore.

Sustainability – Bad, needs improvements, not easily fixed with out making the class god mode. most likely would result in a dps nerf.

Condition Removal – Bad, easily fixed by tweaking our current condition removal traits/utilities

Group Support – Mediocre at best.

Sanny.1270:

The current state of the warrior is good but not great. where the class really shines is its ability to pump out dps, witch Imo is really the only way for the warrior to be currently played. GS, Axe, Hammer, Rifle and Lb all have the ability to hit over 10k on 80’s. while Sword and mace can hit in the 4 – 7k range in Wv3. what we need is our sustainability/condition removal fixed.

Our defensive/support builds can’t compare to what support elles/guards bring to a group, shouts are mediocre at best and your dmg is that of a wet noddle. we lack the proper access to the two most important boons in the game in order to take any kind of damage witch is Protection and Regen to provide us with sustainability in a fight.

We also have poor condition removal, not only do you have to build for it, you also have to run a full rune set, in just an attempt to control how much conditions can be constantly spam’d on you.

Pretty much

Damage – Great, we don’t need anymore.

Sustainability – Bad, needs improvements, not easily fixed with out making the class god mode. most likely would result in a dps nerf.

Condition Removal – Bad, easily fixed by tweaking our current condition removal traits/utilities

Group Support – Mediocre at best.

Pretty Much agree with this 100%. Warriors have DPS covered quite well for a melee oriented class with ranged dps on a strong end. Support wise we arent the best, but a bit above average if speced for support which would lead to pretty low dps anyways. Sustain and damage mitigation is a huge factor that a melee class should have an ability to access, even if it means losing some dps, but I assume that because Anet thought that warriors have 18k health and 2.2k armor base, that giving us any sorta sustain or damage mitigation will be overkill. Well sadly Warriors are perhaps one of the few classes I feel drop the most in WvW.

I run a Hammer Burst build that has 3k armor and 21k hp, which is above glass cannon builds but still get hurt for alot fairly quickly. After an Earthshaker+staggering blow+Hammer shock combo (solid 50k+ dps on a group of players/monsters), i can’t stick around for much longer if there are many aoe’s in the area or players dropping tons of conditions around. I personally wouldn’t mind trading a little dps for some more mitigation, but min/max has shown that to obtain any real substantial defensive gains, you tend to lose more dps and support capabilities at the cost of survivability. It just shows warriors main role currently is DPS, and there really isn’t much ways around it other than to burst/dps and jump out before things go too south (assuming zerg/group combat) and if your running a roaming build, glass or semi-glass builds will excel over any type of bunker/support/tank build you can think of.

Lol, it’s your opinion that they sucked….
And no, they don’t suck. I have a warrior – she doesn’t have max gear yet but is lvl 80. I run a healing shout build with the Superior Rune of the Soldier, longbow + sword/warhorn and believe you me, it is far, far, far from sucking. Not to mention it’s super fun… survivability it very good and the support is excellent (Can AoE remove 6 conditions).
It’s a different story if that’s not your playstyle (being supporty), but even with a support overall build, I do excellent damage (condition damage). There’s nothing like throwing a combo with a bow on a stationary zerg, all while empowering everyone around you (stationary when 2 zergs just stand around throwing spells at each other). The only thing the build is vulnerable to is melee glass cannons (like thieves). Those I can’t really deal with well, but that’s ok… everything has an upside and downside.

just sayin

15 chars

High Dmg != Amazing