Guild Wars 2

I was looking at a thread that a moderator posted, and it said that they are proposing reducing healing signets effectiveness by 8%. It’s not set in stone but where the heck is that reasoning coming from? Reduce it by 8%? Are they just going for a nice even number? I really hope anet doesn’t make us a non-viable class in pvp again.

8% is only 30 health per sec. Relax

30 health per sec is actually a decent amount. As warrior doesn’t have access to any defensive boon, we need all the regen we can get. My similar geared guardian out tanked my warrior by a large amount, even with fraction of the health pool.

Regarding the claim that warrior is OP, please note that it is only regarding certain weapon + combinations. Where as healing signets nerfs all build that might use healing signets. What Anet needs to do is to adjust certain weapons, and not the base skill that make a warrior viable. I hope an useful active that Anet promises would save it.

Most PvP warrior trait dogged march and adrenal health with HS. It’s a lot of passive healing, they had to tone something down. They picked HS.

That would be 360 health per second after the patch.

The mesmer’s passive healing signet is 326.6 health per second, but only if they have three illusions active.

Elementalist’s passive healing signet is 168 health per attack, but I hear something along the line of the skill getting un-split so I assume after the update it would be 202 health per cast. Ele would get a good amount less than 202 health per second, and a negligible boost when using instant cast attacks.

Necromancer’s passive signet give them 325 health each time they are attacked, with a 1 second cooldown. People don’t attack exactly once every second, so I would assume it would be just as bad as ele’s passive healing skill on average. Even if the impossible happened and it gives 325 health per second, it won’t do as well as healing signet will constantly do all the time after the nerf.

For a passive healing skill that, unlike the others, isn’t situational, it should never outdo the situational ones at all when in an optimal environment that the situational ones work best in.
The elementalist and necromancer ones are the most situational, but are still the worst even when everything plays out perfectly for them.
The least situational, warrior’s healing signet, on the class with the most armor and health, is the most effective all the time without the player ever worrying about how to maximize the skill’s usage, even after the inconsequential 8% nerf.
This is a problem.

magic fly.2041:

That would be 360 health per second after the patch.

The mesmer’s passive healing signet is 326.6 health per second, but only if they have three illusions active.

Elementalist’s passive healing signet is 168 health per attack, but I hear something along the line of the skill getting un-split so I assume after the update it would be 202 health per cast. Ele would get a good amount less than 202 health per second, and a negligible boost when using instant cast attacks.

Necromancer’s passive signet give them 325 health each time they are attacked, with a 1 second cooldown. People don’t attack exactly once every second, so I would assume it would be just as bad as ele’s passive healing skill on average. Even if the impossible happened and it gives 325 health per second, it won’t do as well as healing signet will constantly do all the time after the nerf.

For a passive healing skill that, unlike the others, isn’t situational, it should never outdo the situational ones at all when in an optimal environment that the situational ones work best in.
The elementalist and necromancer ones are the most situational, but are still the worst even when everything plays out perfectly for them.
The least situational, warrior’s healing signet, on the class with the most armor and health, is the most effective all the time without the player ever worrying about how to maximize the skill’s usage, even after the inconsequential 8% nerf.
This is a problem.

Im not going to disagree with you that HS needs toned down, (tho good players counter it quite easily, aka poison. Play a warrior and notice how much faster you drop with poison on you.)

But the reason warrior has such high armor, health, and regen, is simply because thats all they have. They don’t have any protection, any blinds (well 1, but its a long CD), any stealth, any teleports, or any clones/pets to soak hits for them. The thing is, those types of things require skill to actually use effectively. Its why new players can jump on a warrior and do really well, since all you have to worry about is doing damage. However stick them against a good player of another class with these kinds of active defenses and theyll get mutilated. If you simply compare a warriors stats vs an eles stats (for example), the warrior will always look better on paper. Thats because these kinds of active defense, aka blinds/protection/teleports/clones cannot be looked at as actual defense as paper. Many people underestimate how much defense these things actually provide, which used by a skilled player is a lot tankier than your standard warrior. But thats the thing, those kinds of defenses require SKILL to use properly. You can’t expect to make a thief with the same stats as a warrior, while also doing the high dmg a warrior can, because of all the blinds and stealth they can get. Its the same thing as giving a warrior stealth and tons of blinds. Im sure everyone can agree with me that would be completely broken.

Sorry for the rant, its just a lot of things ive started to notice as i get into higher and higher level pvp

Carpboy.7145:

Sorry for the rant, its just a lot of things ive started to notice as i get into higher and higher level pvp

Nothing to be sorry about, these kind of arguments are starting to be really annoying on the warriors forum.

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I wonder if could be a good idea to make HS to scale better with healing power so that a warrior should make a tradeoff between damage and great sustain.
Anyway don’t forget that to use cleansing ire you have to land the burst skill and unfortunately only hammer and longbow are easy to hit (well comburstive shot always hit).

Heimdallr.7021:

I wonder if could be a good idea to make HS to scale better with healing power so that a warrior should make a tradeoff between damage and great sustain.
Anyway don’t forget that to use cleansing ire you have to land the burst skill and unfortunately only hammer and longbow are easy to hit (well comburstive shot always hit).

Meh, healing power is a terrible skill and many warrior builds go atleast 20 into defense, giving them 200 healing power, up to 300 if they go all the way. Making it scale better wouldn’t change much and just nerf the zerker builds who are already at a disadvantage having worse condi clearing. People who just be satisfied with the 300HP. And it would make troll warrior regen builds stronger (not that they have much use tho)

And I know, this would add some skill into the warrior. There are many ways to set up an eviscerate, use flurry or even GS F1 in different situations. A good player lands most of his F1s doesn’t matter with which weapon. And people complain warrior is to easy to play. I would love to see the badies get owned by condis ^^.

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

I’m fine with the 8%. It is a justifiable nerf that doesn’t wreck the skill.

Taking out the regen from Dogged March is way more painful.

Cygnus.6903:

I’m fine with the 8%. It is a justifiable nerf that doesn’t wreck the skill.

Taking out the regen from Dogged March is way more painful.

Those leaked notes are confirmed fake

Carpboy.7145:

Cygnus.6903:

I’m fine with the 8%. It is a justifiable nerf that doesn’t wreck the skill.

Taking out the regen from Dogged March is way more painful.

Those leaked notes are confirmed fake

Yes but IIRC the devs have talked about the 8% reduction of HS passive during the livestream, i guess that should make it to the balance patch.

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

Again here we separate the bad players from the good ones. I land 80-90% of my eviscerates except when playing against a s/d thief. But ye that is obvious to why.

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

And F1 skills were never ment to be randomly spammed and assumed to hit. The burst skills are there to be carefully set up and worked to, so you could finish off your enemy. You can even hit every earthshaker if you wanted to, just count their dodges and know which invulnerability/evades/eagis/blocks they have. Kite those out and earthshake, do full combo and you’ll most likely finish them off.

MiLkZz.4789:

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

Again here we separate the bad players from the good ones. I land 80-90% of my eviscerates except when playing against a s/d thief. But ye that is obvious to why.

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

And F1 skills were never ment to be randomly spammed and assumed to hit. The burst skills are there to be carefully set up and worked to, so you could finish off your enemy. You can even hit every earthshaker if you wanted to, just count their dodges and know which invulnerability/evades/eagis/blocks they have. Kite those out and earthshake, do full combo and you’ll most likely finish them off.

If you’re building up full adrenaline in 7 seconds with a hammer/bow combo you’re either hitting 5 people at once with your hammer or you’re pulling this number out of your butt. Longbow burst does not grant adrenaline (srsly it doesnt). The only way to build adrenaline this fast with a hambow build is to use signet of fury which has a 24 second recharge if you’re traited for signet recharge. The only way to remove 6 condis that quickly with f1 burst is to use signet of fury and use both your burst skills. Then if thats the case you’re better off just using signet of rage with lyssa runes.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

MiLkZz.4789:

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

Again here we separate the bad players from the good ones. I land 80-90% of my eviscerates except when playing against a s/d thief. But ye that is obvious to why.

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

And F1 skills were never ment to be randomly spammed and assumed to hit. The burst skills are there to be carefully set up and worked to, so you could finish off your enemy. You can even hit every earthshaker if you wanted to, just count their dodges and know which invulnerability/evades/eagis/blocks they have. Kite those out and earthshake, do full combo and you’ll most likely finish them off.

If you’re building up full adrenaline in 7 seconds with a hammer/bow combo you’re either hitting 5 people at once with your hammer or you’re pulling this number out of your butt. Longbow burst does not grant adrenaline (srsly it doesnt). The only way to build adrenaline this fast with a hambow build is to use signet of fury which has a 24 second recharge if you’re traited for signet recharge. The only way to remove 6 condis that quickly with f1 burst is to use signet of fury and use both your burst skills. Then if thats the case you’re better off just using signet of rage with lyssa runes.

With burst mastery you only need to get 2 bars back after a burst. Gaining adrenaline on swap will give you about 1 bar when you swap to hammer and back to bow (5sec). So technically you only really need to gain 1 bar of adrenaline from attacks. That can easily be done in 7 seconds.

Carpboy.7145:

Cygnus.6903:

I’m fine with the 8%. It is a justifiable nerf that doesn’t wreck the skill.

Taking out the regen from Dogged March is way more painful.

Those leaked notes are confirmed fake

I will believe that when I see it.

Cygnus.6903:

Carpboy.7145:

Cygnus.6903:

I’m fine with the 8%. It is a justifiable nerf that doesn’t wreck the skill.

Taking out the regen from Dogged March is way more painful.

Those leaked notes are confirmed fake

I will believe that when I see it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/RE-Leaked-patch-notes

MiLkZz.4789:

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

How can you remove 6 conditions every 7 seconds steadily?
You could do that in particular situations i guess, but in the long run you will never remove so many conditions with cleansing ire.

Heimdallr.7021:

MiLkZz.4789:

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

How can you remove 6 conditions every 7 seconds steadily?
You could do that in particular situations i guess, but in the long run you will never remove so many conditions with cleansing ire.

Not constantly no, in 1vs1 it might take a little longer if your enemy dodges a few attacks. But the delay on refilling it is really small. But it can be done and the condi removal is really strong in those cases.

Especially in a 2vs2 in the center point in PvP I refill my adrenaline bar in 5s tops. How?
-Cleansing Ire: adrenaline on hit
-Adrenaline on weapon swap
-Burst mastery: only need to refill 2 bars
-Longbow giving 2 ticks every AA
-Hammer cleaving, hitting both enemies.

MiLkZz.4789:

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

Again here we separate the bad players from the good ones. I land 80-90% of my eviscerates except when playing against a s/d thief. But ye that is obvious to why.

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

And F1 skills were never ment to be randomly spammed and assumed to hit. The burst skills are there to be carefully set up and worked to, so you could finish off your enemy. You can even hit every earthshaker if you wanted to, just count their dodges and know which invulnerability/evades/eagis/blocks they have. Kite those out and earthshake, do full combo and you’ll most likely finish them off.

Wow, funny! Actually you’re display the separation of bad players from the good ones! Because in order to land those moves you need adrenaline in your adrenaline bar! (I don’t know if you know that!)

And I said most adrenaline skills, not all.

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

Jelzouki.4128:

MiLkZz.4789:

8% is deserved, but anything more would be to much. People asking for a bigger nerf are stupid. I have read many threads about this subject and I agree that Anet makes a good call on this one. ICD of 7s for cleansing ire would make us perfectly balanced. Like one of the most balanced classes there are.

You’ll notice 8% but not in such a degree that it will ruin builds. And please don’t compare single out heals with each other. There are a ton of different factors you need to take into account. So many I don’t even bother to list them unless requested.

I don’t think a cool down on cleansing ire is required, not all, but most adrenaline skills hard terribly difficult to land.

Again here we separate the bad players from the good ones. I land 80-90% of my eviscerates except when playing against a s/d thief. But ye that is obvious to why.

People complain about the hambow removing too many conditions and I agree. The longbow F1 is to easy to use and in teamfights you build adrenaline up so fast you can use that one and the hammer F1 on cooldown, meaning 6 conditions removed every 7s. That is a bit over the top and is why the hambow is so so strong in spvp. Removing 3 conditions every 7s would bring them more in line with the rest.

And F1 skills were never ment to be randomly spammed and assumed to hit. The burst skills are there to be carefully set up and worked to, so you could finish off your enemy. You can even hit every earthshaker if you wanted to, just count their dodges and know which invulnerability/evades/eagis/blocks they have. Kite those out and earthshake, do full combo and you’ll most likely finish them off.

Wow, funny! Actually you’re display the separation of bad players from the good ones! Because in order to land those moves you need adrenaline in your adrenaline bar! (I don’t know if you know that!)

And I said most adrenaline skills, not all.

Adrenaline refills so fast you can’t really count it in. The time it takes to fill the bar is lower than the cooldown of the skill. So I don’t see why you are making an issue out of it.

Sword F1, longbow F1 and greatsword F1 are really easy to hit.
Hammer F1 and mace F1 are bit harder to hit and requires timing as it has an easy to see animation.
Axe F1 is harder to hit and requires setting up, roots/stuns to actually land.
Riffle F1 is the hardest to hit by the long and obvious skill animation and requires a bit of luck together with timing.

you guys do realise it’s ALOOOOOOOOT easier to play mesmer or necro or even an engi….than the "OP’ warrior…especially zerker-warriors….zerker warriors die about as fast as a thief, and engi’s/necro’s/mesmers…don’t even have to know where there foe is….spam spam spam spam spam those aoe’s fears and clones and or condi’s….warriors take skill…if one class is ez-piecy to play and almost afk murder all other classes….it’s the mesmer…..nerf crit dmge nerf HS warrior has no aegis……man you pve guys are ruining the game because you can’t larn to play the game properly….warrior is and has never ever been OP…. I’m a very dedicated gw player…and have supported the gemstore ALOT…more than 10 pve casual gamers together…but Anet will lose me and more if this goes on…..

I mean the mesmer can launch his full spike or whatever while I’m still tabbing through all the clones…and guess what, when I finally have the real mesmer….he has invisibilty….gtfo

In reality we haven’t lost any healing, at least in WvW. We now get 2 sigils per two-handed weapon and can take 4 on swap sigils at once. So take sigil of renewal on one weapon and you now have 394 healing every 10 seconds with fast hands (39.4 healing per second, which makes up for healing signet nerf and more).

Warriors will still use it even it give so bad heal regain just for the crit bonus,it should get buff on regain considering it the main heal for frontliner class,not like we can spam dodges for heals…

Darksteel.8412:

you guys do realise it’s ALOOOOOOOOT easier to play mesmer or necro or even an engi….than the "OP’ warrior…especially zerker-warriors….zerker warriors die about as fast as a thief, and engi’s/necro’s/mesmers…don’t even have to know where there foe is….spam spam spam spam spam those aoe’s fears and clones and or condi’s….warriors take skill…if one class is ez-piecy to play and almost afk murder all other classes….it’s the mesmer…..nerf crit dmge nerf HS warrior has no aegis……man you pve guys are ruining the game because you can’t larn to play the game properly….warrior is and has never ever been OP…. I’m a very dedicated gw player…and have supported the gemstore ALOT…more than 10 pve casual gamers together…but Anet will lose me and more if this goes on…..

Lol quit lying to yourself and actually play the classes you accuse of being easy. The thing is that we make it look easy because we’ve worked hard to this point and so our skill level is raised. We’ve helped each other come up with builds for most situations. We have to look for interrupt opportunities, tells and evade properly. We have to apply pressure to force warriors like yourself to blow their cooldowns. We have to think when fighting. We have to think about what we do at all times in the face of most warrior builds. But I won’t accuse warrior in its current state as being easy mode or OP until I play the class myself. I’ve fought some truly skilled ones that prove their knowledge in game. And honestly if you can get away with being a Zerker warrior at all, then right now you’re in a good place. There’s no way in PvP you can get away with being simply a berserker engineer without packing some defensive traits. That’s for sure.

Darksteel.8412:

I mean the mesmer can launch his full spike or whatever while I’m still tabbing through all the clones…and guess what, when I finally have the real mesmer….he has invisibilty….gtfo

Okay this statement proves that your argument is baseless. Every other profession has to LEARN how to target a mesmer in order to put up a fight. Every single other one. I’d tell you how, but it makes me mad that you don’t even have to know the proper way and you can still get kills and bags in sPvP or WvW. If this class is ever nerfed, I have a feeling I’ll be seeing a lot more tears and threats of quitting out of players like yourself.