Guild Wars 2

Hi, My name is CoaxialMazer and I have obsessed with theorycrafting/build analyzing since release for warriors. I played multiple classes and have played every class to a decent degree of knowledge, but I have for so many years loved to play warriors. I have 2 lvl 80 warriors with different builds/specs and I love them for their uniqueness and difference, as they have proven to me that warriors are fun to play in my eyes.

Theory
I often search on the forums/reddit to help others and to learn more about warriors and certain bugs/builds/opinions of the community and tried ways to find solutions to problems that exist with warriors. I currently know that in tPvP setting, warriors are extremely scarce in population while in PvE/WvW there is fairly large number of them. This is obvious for a few reasons:

• Warriors in PvE is easy to play/learn
• Warriors excel in both small/Large group play for both small support or DpS roles
• Warriors tend to have an interesting learning curve and a simple class mechanic
• People like warriors from all other games

The sad part is warriors have a few faulty problems. I will state what I believe are the most important ones, even though their probably are a few others lying around that I am not addressing.

• Bugs on gap closing skills (Huge impact for a class meant to excel at melee combat)
• Discipline Tree is in need of rework for its secondary stat
• Condition removal is fairly difficult on warriors without using runes/utilities at level in which other classes do not suffer
• Escape abilities are far less reliable than many other classes
• Trait trees have poor synergy
• Adrenaline system is a far weaker class mechanic compared to other classes
• No Access to protection boon without using runes

From the many days since launch, these are the most common topics I have seen show up that affect warriors or put them at a disadvantage against other classes. Some may agree, and others don’t. I personally have a few agreements with them, and some I believe are not too big of a deal. But I do know of a really big issue with Warriors that seem to make melee combat a bit distasteful against classes with the ability to kite/escape easily. Truth is, that warriors are prone to being kited and have only a few ways to counter it (spec for condition removal/range weapons/help from teammates). Problem for me, is that as a stubborn melee warrior (I only use rifle/longbow under certain circumstances) I believe that there are only two ways to truly fight against other classes with superior movement/escapes/kite-ability.

1. Maximum Gap closing and chasing
2. Maximizing Crowd control to keep target close

These two points made me create builds that have seen a much greater success rate in almost all places (PvE/WvW/sPvP)[tPvP is not something I can test easily] compared to many other builds I have tried before. This leads to the builds I have currently been loving to build/theorycraft, and think they offer everything I feel is necessary for a warrior.

Necessities
I believe all builds need the following:

• Access to Stability
• A Stun Breaker
• A Condition remover
• Atleast 2 Gap closers
• Atleast 1 Condition Removal ability
• Some way to gain vigor or signet of stamina (they do not stack)
• Atleast 1 CC
• Mobility Strikes

I used to run shout builds, Hundred blade Frenzy builds, Whirling Axe builds, Condition builds, but all of them didn’t really feel self sufficient or able to really put the class into the players hands like a D/D ele or a Backstab Thief. I felt like those builds were far too straight forward and lacked depth.

Mobility Is King
I feel confident to say, that the most powerful “trait” is Movement. Whether its swiftness, a skill to close a gap, or to make one, Mobility is the most diverse “stat”. It can be used Offensively, Defensively, Confusing an enemy, or even to cut down time on Objectives. No other stat offers that Depth of dynamic play. Power/precision/crit dmg/condition is damage, but it doesn’t matter if you don’t hit your enemy, Toughness/vitality is worthless if you can’t kill your enemy within the limit of time that you gain extra from gaining defenses. Healing power is useless if you don’t scale well with heals, or if you are insta gibbed before it would even matter. Skills/Traits that give mobility, or take them away (CC) are the best for a melee character/class.

Dodge = Best Defense
This leads me to another thing most warrior builds Lack, and players don’t use properly enough, Dodge. Warriors scale slightly better than other classes with endurance, and for the reason that being able to re-position and gain slight invulnerability for a second every time you roll needs to be used properly. Learning when and where to dodge will make you a better warrior faster than any other build you can use. I believe all warriors should have access to some kind of endurance regen, whether its stamina signet/trait/vigor/or sigil.

Build = Duelist
All the theories I have made and believe in, made me create a build which I found to be the best dueling build for me. I do not make claims that it is the best build, or the strongest build, but I have had more success in every aspect compared to any other build thus far, and I have tried many. Some builds were great at their job, and others felt lack luster. This build gave me the most mobility, survivability, and Dps in one package.

Runes: Divinity
Greatsword (Strength or Fire)/ Sword-Shield (Hydromancy or Energy/Hobbling)
(20/0/20/0/30)
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcRM0kc9MMCwGmMCwGmG0G0xVsMsVoa

I used Full zerk gear with this build, and die less than when I had P/V/T gear fully specced out. 5 Gap closers, extra 450 armor with shield on and 300 with GS, stamina signet for extra dodges combined with whirlwind and shield block, using flurry -> Hundred blade, and maximum gains from max adrenaline. Signet of rage for the dps+movement bonuses topped this build off to give me the best 1 on 1 rate so far.

The traits are changeable to someones preference as always, but I enjoy my set up dearly. The key points are the use of many Gap closers and a few stuns/knockdowns/immobilize to keep targets from getting away faster than your cooldowns can come off to keep chase. I speak mostly from sPvP/WvW point of views.

Build = Stun Lock
The only opposite of Gaining maximum mobility was gaining maximum CC to keep a target close longer. This way of thinking is weaker in a sense, because mobility effecting your self is harder to be stopped by an opponent, than trying to stop your opponents mobility since dodge/aegis/blind effectively make it harder to land your skills.

Runes: Either Divinity/Lyssa (Grab empower if using Lyssa)/Forge or 30% boon duration and 20% fury duration (2 Water/2 Monk/2 Rage)
Hammer (Impact) / Sword-Shield (Hydromancy or Energy/Hobbling)
(10/10/20/10/20)
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcRc0kc9MMCwGmMCwGmaaGaGVmzazoa

I use a mix of Cavalier/Berserker Gear to Achieve 30% crit chance and some tanky stats since Hammer lacks the same burst as Greatsword so your target may be given more time to output some damage on you before you can finish the job. The reason for 30% crit chance, is because you can achieve 100% crit chance between fury (20%) and Unsuspecting foe (50% when enemy is stunned). Earthshaker applies Stun before the actual dmg, so Earth shaker is a guaranteed Crit, which takes advantage of Merciless Hammer (25% damage bonus), Berserker power (12% damage bonus) and Sigil of Impact (10% damage bonus) which stacks great with over 100% crit dmg bonus. Since the stun is up for 2 seconds, you can attack once, maybe twice for a guaranteed crit dmg or get up to twice as much attacks with frenzy if you choose to use it instead of balance stance. The biggest weakness to this build is the need to rely on adrenal gain from healing surge/embrace the pain to use earthshaker often, and dodges/blocks/aegis/blind affect hammer warriors very hard. Otherwise, this build can obtain Glass Cannon dps for a few seconds and still be relatively tanky, and output good dps even when a stun is not applied. With leg specialist, you can keep your target near you for a long time when combined with all your other CC abilities.

Build = Alterations
You can easily change the offhand of the shield to be warhorn or mace for preference, as both give benefits towards your ability to either gain movement or take them away. I personally think Shield offers the best of both, and gives a mini invuln to direct dmg momentarily for those uh oh moments, or closing the gap of ranged enemies without starting with a handicap in health. If you do use warhorn, the need for signet of stamina is not necessary as vigor does not stack with the passive, and you can grab another utility of choice, but I suggest shake it off to be the replacement for the condition removal. Changing builds around is a preference and subjective to the area in which you are playing in (WvW/PvP/etc.). Both these builds that I have used have helped me learn to use my warrior even more. These builds were mostly designed for WvW but adjusting either of these builds to suit what you want is up to the player who uses that character.

In essence, I am trying to find the methodology of how Anet designed warriors, and perhaps find a way to make warriors work up to par against other classes even with the handicap of certain class issues. The learning curve for warriors in my opinion is interesting, because its a small curve to learn the basics, and most warriors plateau at this level of play for a while since PvE doesn’t prove to be an issue for warriors almost regardless of build, while going against other classes/real people prove difficult to most people who play warriors. Warriors seem plain and dull in terms of skills/utilities/traits but I have found a couple of things that can be used to make warriors more dynamic and more skill based class to master. The learning curve to master the warrior is actually pretty steep near the end in my opinion, it gets very tough to figure out how to maximize the abilities of warriors and to fill the gaps on where they suffer without losing out on many other aspects that are needed to do their job, regardless of what that job might be.

Discussion
I want to ask the community and fellow players, both new to warriors, and old time warriors, and even those who aren’t warriors about their views and takes on the way warriors sit in the game. I feel that gw2 has shown to have some favorness towards classes with superior mobility, and skills that bring your dps to your target (pathing skills like heartseeker, or ranged abilites, or massive aoe abilities) since melee warriors can just swing around and far too often see “miss” on their screen cause they are getting kited, easily being “read” or unable to judge the distance of their attacks to apply the dps as easily as some other classes. I love warriors even with their fairly underdog appearance in (tPvP) and their somewhat dull looking abilites, because of how much fun it is to jump in peoples faces and smack them around like dummies.

Conclusion
I hope I shed some light on people looking for a reason to play warriors/continue playing them/or experiment with the versatility that gw2 tries to offer. I don’t believe in a build that trumps all classes/builds (personal hate towards D/D eles but I love their concept for a high skill play of the class) but I do believe in optimizing to be prepared to confront many situations that may hold a greater chance overall in winning that battle by creating a build that offers reliable tools to work with. I hope this Topic interesting enough for players to discuss and give their input on how the way warriors might be able to progress.

Agreed with your thread except for “limited escape ability”.
Once you get into it, the disengaging is almost on par with Thief; if you get good at it you won’t even need Mobile Strikes anymore at some point (Warhorn 4 + mobility skill).
A well played Warrior is nothing short of Batman.

You builds are good, albeit hammer is a bit too easy to counter; if the enemy manages to avoid hammer’s CC, he will simply kill you before you kill him because the damage is a joke.
If I was to use Hammer I would use ES/BB and maybe Crippling Wave but then I would switch away to anything else, it’s kind of sad to be killed by being outDPS’d as a Warrior.

Oh btw for stats I suggest to check this site: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/
Take a look at how little Toughness is effective on your EHP even in absurd amounts… compared to the damage you trade for it that is.
The only setup I would go Toughness with would be Hammer because the damage is so low that Crit Dmg doesn’t add much to the final damage… but for GS for instance, hitting 9k with WA and hitting 4k is quite a difference.

This thread is making things more complicated as is. If this game was balanced, Warrior has two prominent roles.

1.) Carry – Great team fight damage-output. Simply the best DPS (HB, Combustive Shot) you can get when you have a good build and good team comps. As a trade-off, you have the lowest survivability out of all the damage classes since your damage is easily the best in a large scale.
2.) Initiator – Sets up kills for team mates (Leg Specialist, Flurry, Earth Shaker, Bolas, etc) while being hard to kill, slow, and CC while setting kills up (Warhorn, Balanced Stance, Signet of Stamina, Rune of Lyssa). As a trade-off, low damage out-put to balance incapacitation capabilities.

And if you wanted to be a good duelist, why would you put Sword + GS? Mace + GS is miles better for duels.

As a Warrior you can’t be both Carry and Tank Initiator. As an Ele? You definitely can be both and be a million times better only because the fact that people who play Ele nowadays are carried by class.

Schwahrheit.4203:

This thread is making things more complicated as is.

I believe warrior classes require a lot more depth and work to maximize their effectiveness over all. I do agree that Warriors can follow those two roles if the game was balanced, but the fact that it isn’t makes me want to try and find a way to make warriors work in other ways. I could be chasing an endless road with no end, but I figured sharing my thoughts would help this goal for myself and others.

Schwahrheit.4203:

And if you wanted to be a good duelist, why would you put Sword + GS? Mace + GS is miles better for duels.

You have failed to read my statement of how this build was best suited for me. I personally dislike the mace’s lack of mobility and no cripple to keep an enemy close to me. Mace is great weapon in itself, and if you see better to be used in a duel, than I respect your opinion. I personally love to Whirlwind—>Savage leap into my opponents, as it suits my style of play, and I believe that Flurry combines better with GS, and that Savage leap is a fairly reliable gap closer that also does damage (much like heartseeker).

Schwahrheit.4203:

As a Warrior you can’t be both Carry and Tank Initiator. As an Ele? You definitely can be both and be a million times better only because the fact that people who play Ele nowadays are carried by class.

I agree that warriors can’t do both, and I try not to do such thing as do both, but to better round out a warrior without losing out on certain advantages gained by going either full tank or full DPS.

Red Falcon.8257:

Agreed with your thread except for “limited escape ability”.

It is my fault for not clarifying what I meant by saying by not very reliable escape abilities. Cripple/chill/Immob effectively make getting away harder, and the need to carry a warhorn already means that warriors are stuck using a specific offhand regardless of build to remove of these problems. The list of things I wrote that many people argue is a problem for warriors are only what I see come up often on forums/reddit and other players. I personally think Warrior escape abilities are above average, especially with the right utilities/weapon.

Red Falcon.8257:

the disengaging is almost on par with Thief

I disagree with the disengage, as Thief/Mesmer abilities to turn invisi is far more reliable disengage, where as I agree that Warriors with the right weapons/utilities can escape and chase as fast as thieves.

Red Falcon.8257:

Take a look at how little Toughness is effective on your EHP even in absurd amounts… compared to the damage you trade for it that is.

The EHP is hard to calculate because you must also take into account your heals in a fight. It might seem like toughness doesn’t add much to a small health pool even with an absurd amount, but in a fight, you must also consider your use of your heal which in theory gives you more health than you already have. The ideal EHP is 1 toughness per 10 hp. But if you also take into account 1 Healing spell every 30 seconds, then the value of toughness becomes more desirable in a fight.

Theorycrafting is great and all, but w.o. any numbers or stat sheets…
you’re not really helping anyone. You’re just confusing the hell out of the people that are looking for help.

CookMETEnder.7582:

Theorycrafting is great and all, but w.o. any numbers or stat sheets…
you’re not really helping anyone. You’re just confusing the hell out of the people that are looking for help.

This may be true, but I feel sometimes giving numbers may actually be more confusing than just stating the theories and methods. I don’t have much numbers to prove nor am I trying to justify many topics, but rather open discussion on what can make warriors more dynamic of a class like D/D ele. If people want to know numbers, I would be more than glad to give them as well.

Isn’t D/D Ele getting nerfed because of how broken it is?

CookMETEnder.7582:

Isn’t D/D Ele getting nerfed because of how broken it is?

Nah, it’s because the HB wars, BS thieves and shatter mesmers got all mad that eles (and rangers) found a build that prevented them from getting one shot and even fighting back.

Can’t have that, so bring on the nerf hammer!

Just so there’s something contributing to your post:
Immobilize makes d/d eles dead eles
Also boon stripping
Bursting when they swap out of water is also effective

Braxxus.2904:

Just so there’s something contributing to your post:
Immobilize makes d/d eles dead eles
Also boon stripping
Bursting when they swap out of water is also effective

Immobilize does indeed help kill eles and it is the weakness of their builds. Sadly warriors have no inherit way to strip boons unless its through sigils. I agree that bursting when they swap out of water works well and increases the chance to kill a d/d ele, but most of the time d/d eles will only switch to water after they get far enough (RTL or some other escape) and try to heal up while kiting the target, and then re-engage.

I do not remember where I read or heard the information that the devs are looking at d/d ele’s closely and will adjust the class if they see it may be too strong. But many agree that d/d ele’s are one of the most fun and rewarding styles of gameplay. It also had a decent learning curve and proved to be a build that really put the character in the players hands. If warriors could be much more “flexible” and dynamic in build design, then perhaps warriors might be able to stand on par with the d/d ele in terms of fun/rewarding for the high skill required to be great at using that build.