Warrior a hopeless class this PvP season?

Warrior a hopeless class this PvP season?

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Posted by: Akira.5746

Akira.5746

I’ve been testing Warrior builds during the off-season to see how far I could take what is on its face a fairly clearly low-tier class. While I’ve had fun testing condition builds, gimmick builds and glassy burst builds, when it comes down to it I can quite easily outperformed just about every tested build on Scrapper, Reaper and Dragonhunter without much thought, and while I don’t personally prefer playing Daredevil, Herald and Druid, I know well enough to say that they are better classes in the right hands.

So, since I’m not posting this on the Tempest or Chronomancer forums:
-What approaches do you see Berserker relying upon in the next season?
-What can Warrior offer that other classes can’t, on a level far above other classes?
-Is there any hope for Berserker in a competitive situation, or is the reliability of the aformentioned meta classes too important to ignore?

Regarding my testing,

I had a ton of fun with Sword/Sword + Mace/Shield Berserker, both as condition and hybrid builds. There’s a lot of room for customization and fine-tuning, and I therefore tested the following niche synergies:

-Standard Defense 112, Discipline 233, Berserker 133 with Wanderer’s or Mercenary amulet.
-Dropping Disc. for Strength to run Body Blow and Distracting Strikes — absolutely fantastic 12+ Confusion stacks when it works, but suffers immensely from adrenaline starvation.
-Dropping Disc for Arms 232 and running Wanderer’s amulet — fantastic adrenaline generation and bleed stacking, but much harder to fight Necromancers with.
-Swapping CI for RR and Tempest Runes for a 5k heal every time you burst, with another variant using Berserker 332 for more less stability (read: more breaks).
-Swapping in Torch for a long cooldown cleanse and burn, but less reflect.

Of all the variants, I enjoyed the Wanderer’s Arms build the most due to the passive Signet of Might at 50%. However, in terms of consistency I suspect Mercenary RR+Tempest is the most durable.

That said… while I did have fun, I never felt like any of these builds performed well in a team environment. None offered the whopping damage you’d want to justify how squishy Warrior is, to the point where I feel the opposite approach will be more common in competitive play:

Gun Flame.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAU5enMdA9dgVhAehAElilqATJr14iBIFgGQA4d02antA-TphAABEu/gHHBAAeAAVcQAyvMA3XAAA

Rifle Warrior can get all of the necessary traits and utilities (Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire, Endure Pain, Berserker Stance) while still focusing heavily on offense. Crack Shot and Traveler’s runes can keep up mobility while increasing adrenaline generation; Viper’s amulet with Smoldering and Torment can maximize your Gun Flame damage; and with Viper’s Expertise, Hydromancy and Ice on Mace/Shield can give you access to 5 seconds of Chill every swap.

This build’s playstyle should be familiar to anyone that played Longbow Ranger or Shatter Mesmer, but it’s nevertheless one that’s easy to focus down after cooldowns are spent. You only have 15 seconds of Stability in Berserk mode, 15 seconds of Resistance, 8 seconds of Endure Pain, 4 seconds of Reflect/Block and two stun breaks instead of the typical three.

How much can Warrior really do with 8~15 seconds of unmitigated damage dealing? Which approach is better when both are softer than the average meta class’ build?

I’d really love to hear some input from stubborn Warrior mains. I hate the thought of a class being pigeon-holed into either a glassy newbie-friendly build, or a melee-heavy build that’s mediocre but serviceable (S/S, M/Sh). Gun Flame feels like the better choice considering it’s the only unique part of Berserker that’s better than what others have, but… well, it’s Gun Flame. It’s inherently easy to predict and counter even when you build to protect it.

Show me something to get excited about, if you’d be so kind? Maybe we missed something…?

Thanks much for reading, testing, and responding.

EDIT: Updated the build and write-up.

(edited by Akira.5746)

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Posted by: Bartosz.2013

Bartosz.2013

In this minigame called pvp u can just change profession in 5 seconds, noo need to grind any gear or something, just play meta profession and voila! problem solved. Who cares which profession is bad when u can just change char XD

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Posted by: Juba.8406

Juba.8406

I made it to Diamond last season.

I WILL get to legendary this season with my warrior.

OP, UP or whatever, ill get there.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Tested a control rifle + mace shield warrior. Can´t handle it well. Had a lot of funny moments, but felt squishier in paladin then my ele with 13k HP :-(. Also it is very hard to land the control (stability is a pain) . At least the damage output is very strong ..

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Posted by: samo.1054

samo.1054

As long as Anet fail to realize that Warrior as a class needs a major overhaul, until then yes, Warrior is a hopeless class.

It’s a class from another forgotten game, all other classes moved on with their tools.

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

As long as Anet fail to realize that Warrior as a class needs a major overhaul, until then yes, Warrior is a hopeless class.

It’s a class from another forgotten game, all other classes moved on with their tools.

I would strongly disagree … warrior are far from hopeless.

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Posted by: Valik Shin.9027

Valik Shin.9027

Warrior isn’t hopeless but anet doesn’t seem to understand that they have made warriors a support class that doesn’t have any way to survive long enough the support anyone

Valik Shin
Darkwood Legion [DARK]
Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: EvilHero.1248

EvilHero.1248

Not sure if it’s just happens to me, i got laughed at when i kind of voice out that reapers are ridiculous be it in terms of condi-management or outright smashing people’s head in with their power builds. Not to mention the humiliation i suffered from druids where they can leisurely talk to me while i’m putting in serious effort trying to down them, just to be rewarded with a few daze and knockback + full hp recovery in less then 5 sec…

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Posted by: emkelly.2371

emkelly.2371

I would strongly disagree … warrior are far from hopeless.

care to back that up with something? i mean i’m not disagreeing with you but you gotta explain yourself when you strongly disagree. otherwise its like just going “NUH UH!!!”

(edited by emkelly.2371)

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Posted by: Choppy.4183

Choppy.4183

Not sure if it’s just happens to me, i got laughed at when i kind of voice out that reapers are ridiculous be it in terms of condi-management or outright smashing people’s head in with their power builds. Not to mention the humiliation i suffered from druids where they can leisurely talk to me while i’m putting in serious effort trying to down them, just to be rewarded with a few daze and knockback + full hp recovery in less then 5 sec…

Nah, you’re not alone. You have to work like James Brown to drop a competently played druid while they can more or less watch cat videos on the youtubes.

Reapers largely depend from my experience… I actually find our stances to be very useful against them, despite other’s experience. If they can outkite your stances though, RIP.

Dragon Hunters and Scrappers can also mess you up unless you’re running some unblockable traits/utilities… Gun Flame stands out here.

I’m Biff Rangoon, and I approved this message.
Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

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Posted by: Voramoz.6790

Voramoz.6790

Here is the Shinryuku build I’ve been using:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enEdAlkidhAWhAEliFjAzIAsBzZvF3k7zFZEsC+AA-TJBHwAAOJAlfCAq3fIZZAA

Here is the link to his guide:

http://youtu.be/F4E2HhF92vQ

I wish he went a little more into the combos and skill chains he uses. Eh? Shin? Eh? Also I just call it the Shinryuku build.

The newly beefed up heals are strong. I for one can’t wait for ESL for Metabattle to update. I have higher hopes for this season.

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

Here is the Shinryuku build I’ve been using:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enEdAlkidhAWhAEliFjAzIAsBzZvF3k7zFZEsC+AA-TJBHwAAOJAlfCAq3fIZZAA

Here is the link to his guide:

http://youtu.be/F4E2HhF92vQ

I wish he went a little more into the combos and skill chains he uses. Eh? Shin? Eh? Also I just call it the Shinryuku build.

The newly beefed up heals are strong. I for one can’t wait for ESL for Metabattle to update. I have higher hopes for this season.

I thought he said last stand was, overall, better than cleansing ire . So, I am a bit shocked. So did he say why he opt out of last last stand?

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Posted by: Voramoz.6790

Voramoz.6790

Sorry meant to put up RR here ya go:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enEdAlkidhAWhAEliFjAzIAsBzZIjgVwy7t4mcfuA-TJBHwAAOJAq3fIZZgyPBAA

RR plus the Mending two condition SI (not on editor yet) and no stability meam every stun gives the RR PROC OF 2500 health and 1000 toughness. Berserk mode is 15 sec, Outrage 10, headbutt 20.

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Posted by: Akira.5746

Akira.5746

Updated the opening post. Shin’s build is really familiar to me — Mace/Shield with Sword/Sword (or Torch) seem to be the big melee weapon combo choices, although Carrion and Mending are very unusual choices in my opinion. He does make it a point to make a lot of disclaimers in his video, saying it’s fun, effective, but not amazing, and I can agree with all of those qualifiers (Mace/Shield and Sword/X are more fun than e.g. spamming Gun Flame).

Building to +1 in short to medium duration fights with strictly melee weapons strikes me as odd considering how limited Warrior’s sustain is, even with Rousing Resilience. The build might be functional and well-designed around the Carrion stat selection, but I can’t quite shake the thought that it’s not enough.

I did revise my Gun Flame build, and it works spectacularly in team fights. Mace/Shield works fantastically with so many amulets (including Viper’s), offering significant active mitigation and CC to resist some of the evade/blind/interrupt-happy opponents you might face (Thief and Mesmer come to mind).

Because of how vulnerable the build is when focused, I felt like To the Limit! was the most prudent heal to take as the up-front 9K heal is going to be more consistently useful than trying to survive a bad fight for 23 seconds for Healing Signet to provide returns. So long as you’re not alone or staying in unfavorable 1v1s, Viper Gun Flame can put in much better work “+1ing in short to medium duration fights” than Shin’s build IMO.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAU5en8cA9dgVhAehAElilqA7d02antIFgGQAQJr14iBA-TphAABecEAyvMQFHEAAeAAcfBAIc/BA

Thanks again for all of the responses. I like the class too much to just give up on it, even if I do main Scrapper.

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Posted by: Interpret Interrupt.3824

Interpret Interrupt.3824

At the end of the day, you can still reach legendary in the season by playing warrior. I just do not see much team play potential with the class yet.

I will stick to small skirmishes and side node control.

K Pop
The Warrior, The Necro, The F1 Connoisseur
http://www.twitch.tv/interpretinterrupt

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I would add torment and earth sigils. Its enough burn duration. No need for smoldering.
Also both weapons with speed seems to much.
Torment + rage on the bow, earth and doom on the sword.
Viper is great here but i know how glassy this gets :-).

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Posted by: Maddey.3964

Maddey.3964

Since you guys are here talking mostly about the builds that do include rifle, i thought id share what i am using. Im currently running the setup included in this thread : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Valkserker-2-0
I have been playing using it for past two weeks, and it works quite good i would say. I have never been a fan of a condi-typed builds, so i think it fits my type of gameplay. Although the changes i made was :
-replacing rune of leadership with traveler’s
-replacing outrage with Endure Pain
-replacing sigil of speed for something else, like air or whatever else that wouldnt colide with the bonus speed i did imply from traveler
Its quite possible that most of you have seen it, but i made the post hoping not :P
I also would like to know if any of you do have a something power based like me, and would like to share it, maybe something more damage oriented, since i find Ross Bidle’s build being good at both sides – defensive and offensive (thanks for sharing it by the way).

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Posted by: The Not so Evil Overlord.6305

The Not so Evil Overlord.6305

I’ve taken to running my own version of the classic Gunflame build that so many Wars are running these days. The big difference though, is I’m not running as glassy. I’m instead taking the Paladin Amulet. This lets me actually be in the thick of the fighting and to sustain through close range fights.
At first I ran it with hammer as my second weapon, concluding that with rifle being high damage, I could afford to take utility for my second weapon. However, I’ve since dropped the hammer, in exchange for Sword/Warhorn. I run Rune of the Pack for the increased swiftness duration, to further increase that mobility. The end result is I have a fairly multi-purpose build. I can move faster than most classes, enabling me to roam the entire map, I can sustain long enough to withstand even up close fights, and I still find myself hitting hard.

Here’s the build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNBkYD7koDokUsuDwwDgTEsUFYKZtYXOAZx1ACAvj2U7sF-T5AHABts/w9lBA4IAAA

I’m not saying this is perfect, but I do enjoy it.
I find I don’t do well with Healing Signet, so I’m taking Mending for some additional condi clear with my heal. Signet of Endurance is my “ohcrap” button when I’m up against a condi build. This skill has been the one that’s changed the most on my build. It’s alternated back and forth with Steady Stance. But I’m currently finding myself facing down more condi spamming builds than lockdown builds.

The sigils I’ve left blank here, because I don’t remember off the top of my head what sigils I’m running. I do remember though, that the sword has Sigil of Intelligence. This is almost entirely for final thrust, to be used after berserk mode has ended, and volley is on cooldown.

Egbert the Erudite, of Tarnished Coast