Guild Wars 2

So I’decided to move away from the warrior build meta and do something that is not widely seen on warriors. When I first starting considering which build to use, asking for ideas and insight almost always led to cries of “Zerk!!” I didn’t want to do the same thing everyone else was doing, so I decided to go a different route. When I began my ascended armor crafting I went full Valk stats. And was heavily critized for it. And adding precision runes to the armor brough even more. However a full valk build, with full valk traits has proven to do quite well on my warrior. I use axe/axe and was able to take out a full zerk guard in a PVP dual with our guilds warrior pro.

Why is it that anything BUT full zerk is considered wrong, or broken, or just doesn’t work? I see the cries of “zerk!” everywhere, from the forums, to pug dungeons, to world bosses. In my experience with different games, its often that the weaker appearing things can actually win out over the almighty metas, if done right.

What are some valid and well thought out arguments as to why Valk, or any other build for warrior, doesn’t work and zerker is the only way to go.

So you 2v1ed ONE guy and are convinced valk is the way to go? Whoever said ZERK!! for pvp is an idiot anyway

And wtf are full valk traits?

It was 1v1, and I don’t PVP much. And Valk traits, maybe not FULL valk, but 30 strength, 20 Vitality, and 20 Discipline. Can’t remember all the traits I have in each, but it works. In PvE and dungeons I can usually hold my own as well as a full zerk. I just don’t get why anything but zerk is considered bad.

because this game’s pve is easy and simple.
everything else other then zerker will make the fight even longer = harder fight
but the main reason is you shouldnt have any problem with zerker in pve, and zerker is fast.

Choose traits not based on the stats, but based on how the various minor, adept, master, and GM traits can augment and help what your goal with the build is.

Anything but zerk is bad in PVE because every single bit of dmg can be completely avoided through evades, blocks, blinds, reflects, and interrupts. Not to mention most bosses, instead of many, smaller attacks, have 1 oneshot attack. All the defensive stats in the world wont save you from those. That means the only way to go is full DPS. So yeah, you may have had no problem staying up with those zerkers (which isn’t hard since you were stacking all these defensive stats while they weren’t) they were doing a hella of a lot more DPS than you. Full Valkyrie is really bad, since your completely wasting all of your crit dmg with absolutely 0 crit chance

The fact you dual wield axes also says a lot

0 crit chance? That’s why I use precision runes with precision signet. I can’t remember what it is ATM but its decent. Enough for me to crit enough of the time. And dual wield axe yields plenty of DPS. While it may not be as high as a zerk, its enough to contribute more than enough to a boss fight.

^ its enough to contribute sure, but why not go zerk? There really is no point other than ego. Why not use whats proven to be best over and over, other than the sake of being different? If everyone uses it theres obviously a reason

Because everyone else is doing it is not enough of a reason for me. While it may be ego driving my decision, I feel that there are plenty of warrior builds other than zerker that can be used to great effect. With the patch and the zerk nerf coming who knows what will arise.

But the fact remains that zerker will be used to the most effect. Nothing after the patch will change that either. Highest possible direct dmg builds will still be king in PVE until they fix mob AI, skipping, or active defense vs passive defense. And tbh none of those need fixing, except mob AI

So basically if a warrior wants to do anything worthwhile he needs to run zerk and gs/rifle or hambow or a different combination of those? That just doesnt seem right to me, maybe its just me though

@pdavis, I run the below for WvW solo camp capping, and it works pretty well for me (even when baddies show up to protect their stuff) . I ran double axes for the longest time, and s/s has blown my mind over the past few weeks.

This isn’t a “meta-build” even though I use a lot of zerk stuff. Just know others are out there experimenting while solo.

However, I run a meta build while in a group. It’s just not fair to the group to do else wise.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAT8ejMdU5ZnHOewJiABpQDriThkQpgOgjkiyYAB-ToAg0CqIKSVkrITRyisFt+YDB

pdavis.8031:

So basically if a warrior wants to do anything worthwhile he needs to run zerk and gs/rifle or hambow or a different combination of those? That just doesnt seem right to me, maybe its just me though

No youre getting PVE and pvp mixed up here. Meta for PVE is 30/25/0/0/15 GS+Axe/Ma full zerk with scholar runes. There are multiple builds for Pvp however, which may be what is confusing you. Hambow, condi, GS/Bow, axe/Sh are all great for pvp

It is quite possible I aam getting them confused, as I hardly ever run pvp. But researching warrior builds almost always reveals zerk with those weapons.

Here’s something I threw together using Valk armor, I love the fact that you are trying to build around that set and you inspired me.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAnXTnMdQpg2GCmhAdIGAQK+qKlC8cL9ANyMD-zQCBoiCi0HQEBgUBA5mFRjtwpIasKmYKYJVHTQGA-e

I think the fact that you chose Axe/Axe is nice too* because you have access to fury outside of utility skills. It’s the same reason I love it on the Greatsword burst skill.

^^
Thank you!! Someone who understands!!!

Awesome build!
I made some minor changes to reflect more of what I ’m running.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAnXTjMd03ZlHmhQHaAw84nhC6UgK1j3crNA-zgCBoiCi0HQEBgUBA5mFRjtwhRjtsCQxETBLp6YCyAA-e

But over all I think that it’s very plausabe to have an effective non zerk build.

But its still not as effective as if it were full zerk. Its the truth, and you can’t deny it. Youd be much more effective in anything PVE if you were full zerk. And if youve never even tried it before then.....

It’s not that non-zerk is crappy, it’s just that zerk will offer the maximum DPS, and that is the best way to get through things like dungeons quickly. Faster runs = more time to do other stuff, so it’s considered better.

I’ve never run warrior in fractals, but I’ve always been cautious about using full zerk in that scenario since it’s generally easier to die than in dungeons. Though I’m not sure what warriors will typically use in that scenario, or if it’s just the same as dungeon running for them.

In any case, the only real reason I’d recommend someone use non-zerk for PvE stuff is if they don’t have their dodging down pat yet, or they’re a bit new to the dungeons and don’t know all the patterns and such to look out for. The people doing full zerk stuff generally know what goes on in the dungeon, so they can afford to go maximum DPS and not really need any of the defensive stats.

I do use non-zerk in dungeon runs, but it’s because I generally use the same gear sets for WvW build and I don’t feel like investing in an entire gear set just to do dungeon running.

I agree, it makes sense that a fully geared out/conned out zerk warrior would still do the most raw DPS. It’s just a matter of what the group consists of in my opinion. In a group setting with reflects, regen, protection everywhere you don’t really have to worry. I notice it like no other when that stuff is missing though I spend most of my time trying to avoid damage at 20% health using range if I’m wearing zerker.

I consider myself fairly decent at the profession so I don’t think it’s a L2P issue, it’s just that all the boons cover me from plink/condi damage that hurts zerker over time. It leaves me wishing that for this particular group, with no guardian and possibly a few people who have never ran the dungeon before that I had my Soldier’s on for that extra sustain. Kick them because it’ll be a slower? Screw that, that mentality can be thrown in the garbage.

^
wait, so your saying that although Zerker may deal the highest raw DPS, it’s not always feasible to run zerk due to the type of party you’re in? If thats the case I fully agree. Zerker is not the end all for warrior, although many people are convinced that it is. It doesn’t makes sense for me, or anyone for that matter, to sacrifice survivablity for more damage output. Yes it’s nice to hit for a lot, and be able to take out bosses quicker, but at the same time you are squishier, which can be more of a drain and burden on a party if you can’t stay alive. Especially in a dungeon where your added DPS is needed.

I also agree that kicking players becuase they are not running a certain build is not ok, and should not be tolerated. If you are one of those wanting to run a super fast speed run with all zerk, advertise your own party with that in the description. Don’t hate on other players because they don’t play the way you do.

(To know one in paticular, I just had to add that as I’ve had it happen to me on several occassions, and it’s not cool.)

zerker is the best for pve in a organized group that knows what their doing.

however you can still do it through other builds at end of the day pve in gw2 is easy in some ways too easy.

in all honesty pdavis you should make your own build and refinement that’s what I do. it’s fun and enjoyable and makes your character more unique. hell a run a rifle gs warrior which out right appalls some people. doesn’t change fact I do pretty dang good.

wildfang.9670:

in all honesty pdavis you should make your own build and refinement that’s what I do. it’s fun and enjoyable and makes your character more unique. hell a run a rifle gs warrior which out right appalls some people. doesn’t change fact I do pretty dang good.

Oh I totally agree. Thats part of the reason I made this thread. There are other effective options other then zerk, and I run one of those options. What bothers me the most, is that there are too many people caught up in the DPS race and look down on those that that run something other than zerker. Doing gear checks on open PUG groups, kicking or leaving a party because its not zerk, etc. I understand Zerk is the highest DPS in the game, but that doesn’t mean anyone not running zerk is a sub par player, or have a ineffective build to add anything to a party.

pdavis.8031:

but that doesn’t mean anyone not running zerk is a sub par player, or have a ineffective build to add anything to a party.

Well….

re: sub par player. I would argue that a person who was an above par player, who knew his class, who has good dodging skills would want to leverage that ability to play the best he can and not allow his gear to hold him back. OK, maybe he is a good player who mains WvW and is too lazy to respec or regear for PVE. I would contend that a truly good player would be annoyed by his gear holding him back from being more effective.

A good player wouldn’t be too lazy to regear/respec because a good player would care about maximizing his potential. A good player would continually push himself to try newer, harder things in order to get better and better. I would seriously question anyone who considered themselves “good” but wasn’t willing or able to run the most effective builds.

A good player wouldn’t say, “oh pve is easy I can run whatever I want and still succeed,” more likely a good player would say, “oh pve is easy, I should try to refine what I’m doing even more to do it even faster and more efficiently.” I would contend a good player wouldn’t settle for being adequate or “good enough” they would want to be “excellent.”

Tree.3916:

pdavis.8031:

but that doesn’t mean anyone not running zerk is a sub par player, or have a ineffective build to add anything to a party.

Well….

re: sub par player. I would argue that a person who was an above par player, who knew his class, who has good dodging skills would want to leverage that ability to play the best he can and not allow his gear to hold him back. OK, maybe he is a good player who mains WvW and is too lazy to respec or regear for PVE. I would contend that a truly good player would be annoyed by his gear holding him back from being more effective.

A good player wouldn’t be too lazy to regear/respec because a good player would care about maximizing his potential. A good player would continually push himself to try newer, harder things in order to get better and better. I would seriously question anyone who considered themselves “good” but wasn’t willing or able to run the most effective builds.

A good player wouldn’t say, “oh pve is easy I can run whatever I want and still succeed,” more likely a good player would say, “oh pve is easy, I should try to refine what I’m doing even more to do it even faster and more efficiently.” I would contend a good player wouldn’t settle for being adequate or “good enough” they would want to be “excellent.”

Or maybe a “good player” simply doesn’t care about PvE and runs whatever, which is the case many times.

Hmmm, so by that line of reasoning only a “good” player is one who runs “the most effictive builds” to do things “faster and more efficiently”. I agree that any player should strive to be excellent, but that same excellence isn’t limited to one paticular type of build/gear set. Also, by that same line of reasoning, a “good” player wanting to try newer, harder things wouldn’t run the most effective builds anyway. They would want to push themselves and try an “inferior” build as it increases the challenge. The most effective build makes things easier, as you can steamroll though pretty much anything, and there is little to no challenge in doing that.

You’re a casual player complaining about hardcore standards.

I run A/Sh LB full zerker in dungeons. That isn’t the most effective build, but I’m not a perfect PvE player. Thus, you’ll never see me running A/M GS, but you’ll also never see me refuting an objective truth with subjective criteria on the forums… like what we’re seeing in this thread.

Don’t wanna play full zerker? Then don’t, but when you get kicked from groups, own your build and get over it. Sure Tyria would be a better place if we could all run 14/14/14/14/14 in cleric gear with no utilities, but, sadly, that Tyria will never be. Coming here to extol the virtues of whatever less-than-effective build doesn’t change that. Speed in GW2 is spelled D-P-S.

Maybe I am a casual player, and thats fine. But you seem to be missing the point of my thread. I’m not trying to refute the truth that Zerk builds are the best DPS, or to “extol the virtues” of a “less-than-effictive build”. I’m trying to understand why it is that players are considered bad for not being a zerker, or a build other then zerk is considered bad. I totally own my build. I love it. It’s awesome.

But what makes a build “less-than-effective”? because it doesn’t do high DPS? What if said build isn’t the highest DPS, but adds more survivability, or group support? is it less effective than DPS?

killahmayne.9518:

Tree.3916:

pdavis.8031:

but that doesn’t mean anyone not running zerk is a sub par player, or have a ineffective build to add anything to a party.

Well….

re: sub par player. I would argue that a person who was an above par player, who knew his class, who has good dodging skills would want to leverage that ability to play the best he can and not allow his gear to hold him back. OK, maybe he is a good player who mains WvW and is too lazy to respec or regear for PVE. I would contend that a truly good player would be annoyed by his gear holding him back from being more effective.

A good player wouldn’t be too lazy to regear/respec because a good player would care about maximizing his potential. A good player would continually push himself to try newer, harder things in order to get better and better. I would seriously question anyone who considered themselves “good” but wasn’t willing or able to run the most effective builds.

A good player wouldn’t say, “oh pve is easy I can run whatever I want and still succeed,” more likely a good player would say, “oh pve is easy, I should try to refine what I’m doing even more to do it even faster and more efficiently.” I would contend a good player wouldn’t settle for being adequate or “good enough” they would want to be “excellent.”

Or maybe a “good player” simply doesn’t care about PvE and runs whatever, which is the case many times.

Re-read my third paragraph where I address that shameful attitude directly.

pdavis.8031:

Maybe I am a casual player, and thats fine. But you seem to be missing the point of my thread. I’m not trying to refute the truth that Zerk builds are the best DPS, or to “extol the virtues” of a “less-than-effictive build”. I’m trying to understand why it is that players are considered bad for not being a zerker, or a build other then zerk is considered bad. I totally own my build. I love it. It’s awesome.

But what makes a build “less-than-effective”? because it doesn’t do high DPS? What if said build isn’t the highest DPS, but adds more survivability, or group support? is it less effective than DPS?

The best group support is being able to get the objective done in a timely fashion. Because of the fact that there is such a heavy emphasis on the amount of things that you’re able to get done within a time constraint of a day, the amount of time that things take matters a lot. It may or may not for you, but for plenty of others it does.

With that in mind, it’s important to think about what would make the fight go as fast as possible. If I’m critting 35-40k’s on legendary archdiviner (provided I land final strike before the weakness from the AoE’s come into play) and am able to survive whereas people in the party are not, I’m obviously doing something right.

By the way, correctly timed dodges, blocks, and invulnerability-providing utilities/skills along with reflects account for the survivability in this game. If you use attributes for passive damage mitigation, you’re hindering your own potential.

Especially for FotM, you’re going to die if you suck at dodging/timing your skills no matter how tanky your build is and if you’re using a poor choice of weapons for a particular situation just because you like it and because you’ve survived with it before, then YES it does make you a bad player. No offense, but that’s generally what it means. The person a few posts up was pretty much spot-on when he defined what it meant to be a good player; one that always strives to improve and learn how to take on new challenges more effectively than ever.

pdavis.8031:

Maybe I am a casual player, and thats fine. But you seem to be missing the point of my thread. I’m not trying to refute the truth that Zerk builds are the best DPS, or to “extol the virtues” of a “less-than-effictive build”. I’m trying to understand why it is that players are considered bad for not being a zerker, or a build other then zerk is considered bad. I totally own my build. I love it. It’s awesome.

But what makes a build “less-than-effective”? because it doesn’t do high DPS? What if said build isn’t the highest DPS, but adds more survivability, or group support? is it less effective than DPS?

I re-skimmed the thread and no one has said “non-zerk = bad player”, but surely you’ve encountered them in-game. I know people who say the Earth is larger than the Sun… that doesn’t make it true. Just blow them off.

The non-idiots are saying non-zerk is less effective, which is true because it’s slower. The best players don’t need defensive support because they’ve the mastered damage avoidance mechanics. They need offensive support to milk even more dps out of their full zerk gear. The whole goal in GW2 is to go as offensive as you can without getting killed. In PvE, mastery of dodging and mitigation skills, hands down, trumps the effectiveness of stacking defensive stats.

Honestly, if I can easily survive a whole dungeon in full zerk, why would I use anything else? The simple answer is because I want to… maybe it’s for role-play, to have fun, just flip the bird to the system or carry a weaker player, but none of those things equal the generally accepted definition of “effectiveness” as it applies to gaming.

^
Now that I can understand. So it largly depends on your play style. If you’ve mastered the damage avoidance mechanics, than zerk/higher DPS would be the way to go. I can appreciate that. Though I still maintain that not having mastered such things in order to use zerk gear to the fullest extent and get the most out of it, doesn’t make it “bad”, just different.

However, I would disagree on one point. The whole goal of GW2, like any game, is to have fun :P. Again the thing that bothers me the most is that there is little love for those who want to venture outside the box. Not just with builds, but the many varied ways to play the game.

But how will you ever master it if you refuse to use it in the first place? And for many people a “fun” build would be the top, most efficient build out there. Aka zerk

Because I refuse to drink the kool-aid and use a certain type of gear/build. I am pretty good at damage avoidance as it is. I don’t claim to be awesome, but good enough to survive with minimal damage taken in most situations. And although the top build may be “fun” for many, It’s more fun for me to go heads up (for the most part) against a legenday boss, and be able to absorb a bunch of damage. But apparently, for many people, this as a poor way to play.

lol

Pdavis, you’re not going to win this arguement. Especially not in these forums.

Some people are really adamant about shaving off that 30 seconds in their dungeon run and the rest are sheep that just follow the pack, without their own research.

Is zerker gear the most effective in terms of SPEED running? Probably
Is speed running the only way to play the game? Definitly Not

“Effectiveness” is in the eye of the beholder.
If you are only worried about fastest time to complete a dungeon, then yea zerker is most effective, however, if taking an extra 2-5 mins on a typical dungeon doesn’t matter to you (which in all honesty it shouldn’t since you are taking the time to play the game anyway, lol), then do whatever you want, regardless of what the elitist say.

With that said, don’t try to join an “all-zerker” group if you don’t have zerkers. Just common courtesy. In that same vain, you could also make a group and say “all-rampager” or “all soldier” or “unique builds only” or whatever.

With regards to the thread topic, I would give you a build…but i literally change my build everyday that i play lol. We, as warriors, have plenty of weapons. I play with them all. “Effective” or not. Lol

Ciao

^
Oh I totally agree I may not win the argument. But I hope to at least give some people some thing to think about and perhaps try something different other than zerk and stop being sheep and get away from what is considered the norm.

Of course I’m not going to join a “zerk only” group. The one starting the group has every right to kick and/or leave if the group doesn’t meet their requirements. I understand and respect that.

One of the things I’m concerned about is when asked for pve build advice, its almost exclusively “zerk”. Why not present zerk as a viable option but don’t dismiss that there is other builds to be considered that may mesh well with their play style. I guess that’s whats at the core of this thread. Although there have been some good points for zerk, there is little support for other builds, and that’s what I’d like to see more of.

we rlly don’t need to think that hard about it, u keep saying why being “not-zerk” isn’t bad for pve, dungeons, etc…

its been proven already that zerk is the fastest and “best” way to go about in pve

also, there are many, many builds that work for everything, from dungeons, to spvp, to wvw, but for pve, its zerk.

btw most ppl just wanna get this stuff done fast so they can do something else, while some (like u from what im getting at) like to take their time and spend half an hour doing cof p1 because u don’t wanna “be in the norm”…

so, u know what, run ur valk build in a dungeon, and only party with other full valk, soldiers, and clerics player and see how much fun ur having then.

lol.

seriously though, although my build is a work in progress (i.e. accesories and upgrades) This is what I am currently running.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIEQNAnXTjMd04ZlHGewJaAB9QDzitwoYICijCqAKA-zgDBYLBCnBkoAiIAgFAM3sIasFOERjlVoKJYqSRWXSI1zLY+EKqeBwAA-e

Edit: fixed

pdavis.8031:

^
Oh I totally agree I may not win the argument. But I hope to at least give some people some thing to think about and perhaps try something different other than zerk and stop being sheep and get away from what is considered the norm.

Of course I’m not going to join a “zerk only” group. The one starting the group has every right to kick and/or leave if the group doesn’t meet their requirements. I understand and respect that.

One of the things I’m concerned about is when asked for pve build advice, its almost exclusively “zerk”. Why not present zerk as a viable option but don’t dismiss that there is other builds to be considered that may mesh well with their play style. I guess that’s whats at the core of this thread. Although there have been some good points for zerk, there is little support for other builds, and that’s what I’d like to see more of.

If someone just asks the general question, “What is a good build?” of course they are going to get that advice. It’s good advice. It’s going to save them from getting grief kicked from groups; most warriors will end up with at least 1 piece of zerker gear on their toon, so it’s a good long term investment; and it provides the best returns for direct dps. It isn’t bad advice, and it certainly isn’t always an elitist suggestion.

Now, if someone posts a more specific question, “What is a good condi build?” “What is a good support build?” “What is a tanky build?” you’ll see very different advice. Ya, you’ll get some guys flaming the OP and those trying to help him. That’s elitism, but this is the internet… everyone gets flamed by teh ub3r l337 keyboard police.

If you want to promote other gear sets, the best way to do it is post builds with math attached and show how they compare to zerker while explaining the strengths and being honest about the weaknesses. Even then, you’ll have people argue with you to the point of stupidity, but there will be intelligent individuals who take something away from your work. Just coming on the boards and being mad at the world for blindly following what has been “proven” is more of a gripe against human nature than it is against the Warrior community.

I’m all for breaking the mold, and I do my best to skirt the fringes of what’s “accepted”, so more power to you, but it takes more than a different world view to change minds.

You do have a point. And yes I suppose it is more of a gripe about human nature then the warrior community. Stupip people are everywhere, I guess I am expecting too much by thinking they aren’t heavily involved in my escape (I.e. gw2) and on the forums.

Completely agree ^

Stupid people coming into my escape, trying to prove that whats been tried and true to be the best is just plain wrong. Not even willing to try and see why its the best, but completely convinced theyve uncovered some secret that people who’ve been playing for nearly 2 years now had never even thought of. What is with these stupid people?

TLDR

It goes both ways

LOL of course it does. I do understand why it’s the best, what I don’t understand, again, is why those who step out of whats considered the best are put down. I think we’ve established that Zerk, although may be the “best” for speed runs and the like, it’s not always the best for a particular play style.

I’m not trying to prove that zerk is wrong, just that valk or other builds have merit and their place. I’m not convinced I’ve uncovered some over looked some secret build by experienced players. I’m trying to get the idea across that a valk build, or any other build, CAN and DOES work. I simply refuse to to follow the herd because that’s the “best”, and the mentality that if you are not running the “best” then you are stupid and/or a bad player is what this thread is really all about.

“Why is it that anything BUT full zerk is considered wrong, or broken, or just doesn’t work? I see the cries of “zerk!” everywhere, from the forums, to pug dungeons, to world bosses. In my experience with different games, its often that the weaker appearing things can actually win out over the almighty metas, if done right.

What are some valid and well thought out arguments as to why Valk, or any other build for warrior, doesn’t work and zerker is the only way to go."

So far I’ve seen a lot of “zerk is the best, and if you don’t run zerk you are not playing to your full potential” type responses, but very little as to WHY a valk build doesn’t work. I’ve posted my build, and yes there are weakness as in ANY build, but it is a solid, balanced build nonetheless. So why is it wrong to run that if it suits my play style and can be used effectively in many situations?

TLDR

There are other options for PvE than zerk

On second thought, this is silly. Good luck with the build pdavis!

pdavis.8031:

seriously though, although my build is a work in progress (i.e. accesories and upgrades) This is what I am currently running.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIEQNAnXTjMd04ZlHGewJaAA94rs2yoYogOKoCKA-zgDBYLBCnBkoAiIAgFAM3sIasFOERjlVoKJYqSRWXSI1zLY+EKqeBwAA-e

Using Sure-Footed but not a single stance?

pdavis.8031:

What are some valid and well thought out arguments as to why Valk, or any other build for warrior, doesn’t work and zerker is the only way to go."

Reason #1

Damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage + 0.5) )

There is no reason #2

So far I’ve seen a lot of “zerk is the best, and if you don’t run zerk you are not playing to your full potential” type responses, but very little as to WHY a valk build doesn’t work.

Because it does measurably less damage in return for survivability you don’t need.

So why is it wrong to run that if it suits my play style and can be used effectively in many situations?

How does your playstyle differ? Do your weapons kill the bosses in the dungeons by some different means than everyone else’s? Does your dodge button / endurance bar have a differing functionality from everyone else?

There are other options for PvE than zerk

Sure you can run full clerics if you want. You could run a Rampagers build if you want. But don’t pretend that all options are equally optimal.

Turamarth.3248:

pdavis.8031:

seriously though, although my build is a work in progress (i.e. accesories and upgrades) This is what I am currently running.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIEQNAnXTjMd04ZlHGewJaAA94rs2yoYogOKoCKA-zgDBYLBCnBkoAiIAgFAM3sIasFOERjlVoKJYqSRWXSI1zLY+EKqeBwAA-e

Using Sure-Footed but not a single stance?

Ooops. It was supposed to be dogged march.

Sure you can run full clerics if you want. You could run a Rampagers build if you want. But don’t pretend that all options are equally optimal. /quote]

My play style isnt nessicarily run and gun, which seems to be a typical zerker style. Run in and smash EVERYTHING. Although that can be fun from time to time. I prefer a style more on the front lines taking aggro and using my defensive capabilities to draw the mobs away from the party if possible. Now i understand my build isnt super tanky, but I feel it’s a good trade off and balance. AND thats the difference.

I’m not pretending, and never have pretended that all options are equal. I’ve been saying that a different build CAN be effective IN A DIFFERENT WAY. As Twiista said a few posts up " “Effectiveness” is in the eye of the beholder."

pdavis.8031:

I prefer a style more on the front lines taking aggro and using my defensive capabilities to draw the mobs away from the party if possible.

There is no mechanism to attract and hold aggro in this game. All you’re doing is roleplaying an off-tank and such a construct does not exist in the mechanics of the game.

What you think you’re doing: Playing off-tank, holding aggro so the squishies can DPS while I still manage to get some good DPS of my own in

What you are actually doing: Taking 1/5th of the aggro, and doing mediocre DPS.

Wait, so while I’m pulling mobs/boss AWAY from the group and doing DECENT damage at the same time, I’m not actually pulling anything and the avatars chasing me aren’t really chasing me. It’s all in my head? Yes I understand that you can’t “hold aggro” but I can get a group to chase me. Granted it’s not a for a long drawn out time, but it’s enough for the “squishier” people in the group to recover before diving back into the fray.

[Sarcasm] Apparently I don’t know how to play at all and am just a horrible player because I don’t follow the zerk mentality and be a mindless lemming. There is no other way to play than zerker, and in not doing so I’m ruining the game for everyone else. [End sarcasm]

I really need to learn to ignor the trolls

I’ll be blunt here. It isn’t as deep as its being made out to be.

People use zerker because it melts bosses fast, which is actually a pretty good reason to use zerks.

You don’t have to.

My Warrior is 80/20 Knights warrior with bloodlust and shout heals. I’ve never been chided by a Zerker that was out of endurance at the wrong time when I was revving him/her. I use that same gear for WVW and spearhead Zergs, and I do well in Duels as well.

Play how you’d like to. If you can tank as a warrior, do so. If it helps get the job done, it helps get the job done. If you don’t do as much dps as (X build), and players want to criticize you for that, especially if you’re the most likely candidate to save their butts when they trip, then you probably shouldn’t be partying with them to begin with.

^
Amen brother! Someone who understands!

Tree.3916:

killahmayne.9518:

Tree.3916:

pdavis.8031:

but that doesn’t mean anyone not running zerk is a sub par player, or have a ineffective build to add anything to a party.

Well….

re: sub par player. I would argue that a person who was an above par player, who knew his class, who has good dodging skills would want to leverage that ability to play the best he can and not allow his gear to hold him back. OK, maybe he is a good player who mains WvW and is too lazy to respec or regear for PVE. I would contend that a truly good player would be annoyed by his gear holding him back from being more effective.

A good player wouldn’t be too lazy to regear/respec because a good player would care about maximizing his potential. A good player would continually push himself to try newer, harder things in order to get better and better. I would seriously question anyone who considered themselves “good” but wasn’t willing or able to run the most effective builds.

A good player wouldn’t say, “oh pve is easy I can run whatever I want and still succeed,” more likely a good player would say, “oh pve is easy, I should try to refine what I’m doing even more to do it even faster and more efficiently.” I would contend a good player wouldn’t settle for being adequate or “good enough” they would want to be “excellent.”

Or maybe a “good player” simply doesn’t care about PvE and runs whatever, which is the case many times.

Re-read my third paragraph where I address that shameful attitude directly.

There is nothing shameful about not wanting to run the same old regurgitated build that somebody on the forums says is the “best DPS” and that certainly doesn’t translate into the person being a “bad” player necessarily.

The attitude here pretty much is if you don’t run 30/25/0/0/15 GS/Axe + Mace in full berserker gear you are a bad player. So if a player runs that same build except he uses a longbow instead of a GS that means he is a shameful player because he isn’t running the best exact build that somebody on the forums conjures up?

Not everybody cares about running a CoF Path 1 in 6 minutes 20 seconds instead of 6 minutes 40 seconds. I certainly don’t care and I am pretty sure most people don’t really care either. Congratulations, you won an extra 20 seconds of your life to do something else. If that is shameful so be it.

While your at it, nit-pick at every little detail (hey, this mesmer put timewarp 2 seconds too soon, or this player isn’t using bloodlust sigils in his wep) because that certainly isn’t trying to be the best right? Why don’t we all do our own calculations on the best DPS builds because certainly following what somebody else says isn’t trying to be the best, it is just following what somebody else deems is the best and accepting that as a fact instead of testing it for ourselves.

I personally try to be the best at things that truly matter to myself and the guild that I am in. Shaving 10 seconds off a CoF Run doesn’t truly matter to me or my guild, because we don’t care. It’s not like you are rewarded with anything for it. It takes a lot of effort to be try to be the best at everything, and ironically, if you try to be the best at everything it may take away from being the best at something that really matters to you because of how you are allocating your effort.

Now I am not trying to put down so called PvE elitists. If people want to shave 10 seconds off a CoF run, I have no problem with people striving towards that. It is what matters to them and I don’t take that away from them at all. Personally I don’t see the point, but that is just my opinion and likewise somebody might not see a point in trying win a WvW matchup because it does not matter to them. If people want all zerkers in their dungeon run, that is their right. People are entitled to have these kind of runs, if people don’t like it, there are more than plenty of casual runs that don’t care too much about completion time.

That also doesn’t mean I purposely run the worst possible build for PvE, because I do care if a run takes 20 minutes instead of 10 and I am holding that back. However so called elitists tend to lose sight of things and tend to berate and belittle others just because they aren’t as serious about certain content (i.e PvE) as they are and are getting on the case of people running a build that is perhaps only 90% optimal instead of 95% optimal. Some just don’t respect people that don’t care about that stuff as much they do and the concept of people trying to play this game for the fun or as a stress reliever is completely foreign to them. Some just fail to consider other perspectives other than their own. Now that is what I consider shameful.

Maybe I am delving to deep into this, but that is the honest truth.