Guild Wars 2

This is the warriors dps based on the skill description. Total dps takes into account the cooldown of the skill. Basically the numbers is how much dps it will add. The plus and minus indicates where the attack will increase your overall dps.

Attacks———-damage—/—dps—/—total dps—/
total basic————851—/—607—/—607+-/
hundred blades—2030—/—580—/—130—/
whirlwind attack-1036—/—4144—/—450+-/

The most obvous thing to note is that the auto attack does most of your dmg.=(same with every weopon). With the exeption of whirlwind which will only reach that dps if attack into a wall or you are rooted Otherwise it is half of that.
Hundred blades over all is very bad based on its cast time and cooldown you shouldnt really use this in a crit build. Only in a percision based condition build. It has slightly higher dps but when you add basic attack with the increase from vulneriblity is worse.
So over all spam the whirlwind when you can and spam basic. All other attack should be use situational. Like rush can be a great escape.

If this is what you scraped off the tooltips, then the tooltips are inaccurate. Hundred Blades may not do as much damage as some people believe when you look at DPS, but it’s not lower then the auto-attacks especially if you can land that final strike.

i can easily hit 8-10k on players with one use of Hundred Blades. my auto attack trio comes nowhere near that, and with Hundred Blades on a 6 second CD it’ll stay ahead of autos.
And spam the WW when you can? lol. you said so yourself, unless your rooted or at a wall you’re not doing that much dmg. use it as a gap closer/running move. or use it through your target then dash back with 5.
this was just…wow.

Ayestes.1273:

If this is what you scraped off the tooltips, then the tooltips are inaccurate. Hundred Blades may not do as much damage as some people believe when you look at DPS, but it’s not lower then the auto-attacks especially if you can land that final strike.

No outside this i have tested hundred blades on a dummies and what i concluded is that it did exactly the same dmg. Hundred blades keeps you immobile so it is worthless. The only good part is that it hits 9 times over the 3.5 seconds. If you do damage through 60% bleed sigil and 33% trait. (Which is what i do) then it is worth it. If you’re a crit based build the extra vulnerability is massive.

Nanashi.5704:

i can easily hit 8-10k on players with one use of Hundred Blades. my auto attack trio comes nowhere near that, and with Hundred Blades on a 6 second CD it’ll stay ahead of autos.
And spam the WW when you can? lol. you said so yourself, unless your rooted or at a wall you’re not doing that much dmg. use it as a gap closer/running move. or use it through your target then dash back with 5.
this was just…wow.

Well how much does you auto attack hit for. i imagine about 1.3k you can attack 7 times in a duration of hundred blades so 9.1k. You also have to remember this counts crit so you will naturally have a higher dps with hundred blades because it crits more regularly. Over all basic attack is still better.

It’s not all about DAMAGE PER SECOND. It’s about the burst damage that 100 Blades gives you. You can smack someone for an hour with your auto attack, and over the course of the hour you could potentially do more damage than you could using 100 Blades with cooldowns over an hour. The difference is a player can survive steady and sustained damage.. The burst damage is what takes players down. They simply cannot keep up with 8-10k damage in a few seconds as opposed to 8-10k damage over twenty seconds. Try beating a skelk with health regeneration with ONLY your auto attack. It will take longer to kill it and you’ll technically do MORE damage to it than you would with 100 Blades. The 100 Blades Skill will kill it in a shorter time and technically do less “total” damage.

It’s efficiency factor. Quality not quantity

To add.. DPS is an average. It doesn’t account for spike damage.

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

It’s not all about DAMAGE PER SECOND. It’s about the burst damage that 100 Blades gives you. You can smack someone for an hour with your auto attack, and over the course of the hour you could potentially do more damage than you could using 100 Blades with cooldowns over an hour. The difference is a player can survive steady and sustained damage.. The burst damage is what takes players down. They simply cannot keep up with 8-10k damage in a few seconds as opposed to 8-10k damage over twenty seconds. Try beating a skelk with health regeneration with ONLY your auto attack. It will take longer to kill it and you’ll technically do MORE damage to it than you would with 100 Blades. The 100 Blades Skill will kill it in a shorter time and technically do less “total” damage.

It’s efficiency factor. Quality not quantity

i agree so thats why the auto attack is better. The dps i calculated is based of cast time alone. so while you use the hundred bladed i do more damage by just using the auto attack. I guess i never explained how i arived at dps.
Its basicly damage / caste time * vuln
basic attack 851 / 1.5 * 1.07 = 607
hundred blades 2030 / 3.5 * 1 = 580

I’m not a Greatsword user, but the point of a burst ability is to to a lot of damage “right now”. If it helps, consider the length of time the burst ability runs and then compare the damage done over that time to the damage done by your auto-attack over the same period of time. The burst ability will (clearly) have higher damage in that very short window of time — which is the point.

There is not burst guys its a illusion
hundred blades 2030 in 3.5 second
basic 851 in 1.5 seconds
3.5 / 1.5 = 2.33*
851*2.33*=1985.66*
1985.66* so over 3.5 that is a damage of basic attack
Also basic attack has that vuln

Deria.9158:

I’m not a Greatsword user, but the point of a burst ability is to to a lot of damage “right now”. If it helps, consider the length of time the burst ability runs and then compare the damage done over that time to the damage done by your auto-attack over the same period of time. The burst ability will (clearly) have higher damage in that very short window of time — which is the point.

They do the same damage over the same period. if you include vuln

Tool tips aren’t always correct. I highly doubt the actual damage of hundred blades is 2030 over 3.5 seconds without taking into account crit. Test it against dummies using steady weapons and your results might be quite a bit different.

Fourth.1567:

Tool tips aren’t always correct. I highly doubt the actual damage of hundred blades is 2030 over 3.5 seconds without taking into account crit. Test it against dummies using steady weapons and your results might be quite a bit different.

I have and it was about the same. crit does not matter because it’s the same rate to crit so the increase would be universal

Okay i will settle this. If you are a crit damage build you are better off using the basic attack because of vuln. If you get your 7% increase in damage that increases the crit by the same amount. So it is a bigger increase.
If you’re a crit condition build you get 2 more attacks using a hundred blades. This is the build I use but I still see my weakness when I have to stand still and attack the opponent.

Your logic is flawed Mell. DPS does not account for burst damage. Burst is the warrior mechanic, and 100 Blades is one of the biggest burst skills. DPS is a CONSTANT average.. Using a combination of constant DPS and Burst will provide you better results. Hands down. Everytime. In the downtime that your 100 Blades is Cooling down.. You are doing damage with auto attack.

The cooldown is irrelevant to DPS in this case. All that matters is the amount of time that is taken up by the Greatsword Chain and the channel time of a Hundred Blades. Take the total damage of each, and divide them by the time they take. This would give you damage per second of each skill use.

Now if you want to calculate your average dps over a loner period of time, then sure you’d want to factor in the cooldown of Hundred Blades assuming you are using it. This doens’t work if you are comparing skills directly though.

Since you lack even the actual timed channel time of Hundred Blades (including the time it takes before you can start another attack, I do see the 3.5s, but does that include this?) and the total auto-attack chain time of the Greatsword (again, including the time it takes before you can start another attack), then I’m not even going to ask for video evidence as I flat out think this has been calculated incorrectly. The addition of whatever math you are trying to accomplish with cooldowns only gives me confidence that my assertion is correct. You need to give us more data, at the very least. Not tooltip numbers.

Hmm, something is up with your math… running with 3k attack, and 50% crit damage on my spvp gear, even if all hits are crit on the auto attack, you are looking at about 7-8k over 4.5 seconds, with the stacks of vulnerability you are putting up.

Hundred Blades will do about 10-15k on the same mob in a second less time.

If you wanted to auto attack to kill someone, use a mace, stun them for a precision bonus, and go to town. Props for trying to get one of the most feared burst abilities in the game buffed, but no one is going to buy into it.

In addition, I’ve just frasped some AA and 100 blades footage and watched it back frame by frame. The AA chain actually takes closer to 2.3 seconds to complete, while 100 blades was at 4 seconds.

Using your numbers:

AA: 851 / 2.3 = 370
HB: 2030 / 4 = 507.5

This just in: tooltips are useless. In addition, did you factor in the higher damage of 100 blade’s last strike?

I do plan on posting all my data. But i wanted to see what the response was when i said hundred blades is rubbish and it seems negative. Even those the burst is the same.
I have known this for a while just try it and you will see. Doing the fraps thing takes a lot of time i do not have and i am not confident in it anyway. Because what the game says and combat log says are always different. The tooltip is wrong but not by a lot but its quicker.
Ultimately dps is burst if people can’t tell and stop saying it isn’t. if you think im wrong prove it.

Sami.1560:

In addition, I’ve just frasped some AA and 100 blades footage and watched it back frame by frame. The AA chain actually takes closer to 2.3 seconds to complete, while 100 blades was at 4 seconds.

Using your numbers:

AA: 851 / 2.3 = 370
HB: 2030 / 4 = 507.5

This just in: tooltips are useless. In addition, did you factor in the higher damage of 100 blade’s last strike?

Tooltip pretty close. In the end though the burst of the auto attack is higher But by your calc a lot more. i did factor in a last attack 1.6k are 8 attacks and last one is 400.

Okay i could make a video. You can prove it yourself hit a dummy 7 times then hit another one with burst. Can you see a difference?

No, by my calculation the burst of 100 blades is higher. Using your damage figures, 2030 damage in 4 seconds works out at 507.5 damage per second, which is higher than the 370 dps of the AA swings. And that is from frapsing the attacks to get a much more accurate duration than provided on the tooltips.

In addition, 100 blades – due to hitting more times per second as well – has a much higher chance of granting you stacks of might from the GS trait, triggering bonus bleeds from other traits, triggering On Crit effects (sigils on weapons), etc.

100 blades, both mathematically and in practice, does more DPS than the AA chain. That’s the entire point of the skill – more damage for 4 seconds, but no mobility.

I’m not sure frapsing a single attack rotation is a great indicator of actual DPS. What you see on screen isn’t necessarily the same speed as what’s happening on the server. I’ve seen some variation in swing speed when playing that I would imagine has to do with lag and the client trying to catch up to the server. Would need to fraps an extended period of time and try to average out the damage being done from auto-attacks and HB. Or better yet, fraps an extended auto-attack only session and a separate session using HB on cooldown and see which adds up to more total damage over, say 1min on a dummy.

I’m not exactly sure what that initial table that the OP put up was supposed to represent. But on paper, it seems that auto-attack and 100b have the exact same DPS. The 100b burst is an illusion, it simply hits more times for less damage each swing (save the last swing).

Although, this is contrary to everything I’ve seen in game through 80+ lvls of playing, primarily using the GS as one of my weapon slots. Killing feels much slower if you just swing at things. So either the health going down faster is an optical illusion or there’s something off with the math.

Will need to test this more later.

Sami.1560:

No, by my calculation the burst of 100 blades is higher. Using your damage figures, 2030 damage in 4 seconds works out at 507.5 damage per second, which is higher than the 370 dps of the AA swings. And that is from frapsing the attacks to get a much more accurate duration than provided on the tooltips.

In addition, 100 blades – due to hitting more times per second as well – has a much higher chance of granting you stacks of might from the GS trait, triggering bonus bleeds from other traits, triggering On Crit effects (sigils on weapons), etc.

100 blades, both mathematically and in practice, does more DPS than the AA chain. That’s the entire point of the skill – more damage for 4 seconds, but no mobility.

You can perform almost 2 basic combos in the time of hundred blades. hundred blades hits an extra 2 times (or 3 by you calc) and if we consider the might stack even if you get those 2 or 3 extra stacks it does not equal the extra 7% damage increase from basic attacks when we stack vuln.

Redundancy.7325:

I’m not sure frapsing a single attack rotation is a great indicator of actual DPS. What you see on screen isn’t necessarily the same speed as what’s happening on the server. I’ve seen some variation in swing speed when playing that I would imagine has to do with lag and the client trying to catch up to the server. Would need to fraps an extended period of time and try to average out the damage being done from auto-attacks and HB. Or better yet, fraps an extended auto-attack only session and a separate session using HB on cooldown and see which adds up to more total damage over, say 1min on a dummy.

I’m not exactly sure what that initial table that the OP put up was supposed to represent. But on paper, it seems that auto-attack and 100b have the exact same DPS. The 100b burst is an illusion, it simply hits more times for less damage each swing (save the last swing).

Although, this is contrary to everything I’ve seen in game through 80+ lvls of playing, primarily using the GS as one of my weapon slots. Killing feels much slower if you just swing at things. So either the health going down faster is an optical illusion or there’s something off with the math.

Will need to test this more later.

The best tests i have found it get 2 of the same dummies hit one 7 times then hit other with hundred blades and they are the same. My point really is that why sacrifice your mobility for an attack that does the same damage. You also get vuln and in terms of a group fights this is far more important.

In my PVE build, full berserker gear, I can get off 20-30k 100 Blades. I can only hit 2k-4k Auto attacks. Mind you this build could never ever be used in any type of PvP and you’d probably get one shotted by an decent thief.

EDIT Forgot to add, this is a pure dungeon PVE build. Not fit for events or questing of any kind. You get destroyed if any mob focuses you.

Mell.4873:

There is not burst guys its a illusion
hundred blades 2030 in 3.5 second
basic 851 in 1.5 seconds
3.5 / 1.5 = 2.33*
851*2.33*=1985.66*
1985.66* so over 3.5 that is a damage of basic attack
Also basic attack has that vuln

No burst? Are you kidding? Do you even play warrior? My HB does far far far than 2030 over that 3.5 seconds. Easily on average 5x to 10x that amount.

Don’t go off of what the tool tips say.

I hardly ever use HB but not because of some belief it doesn’t provide spike damage (it does btw) but because I find the mobility far more valuable to me in most situations. Self-rooting is a recipe for death against anything but a helpless victim, it’s also entirely reliant on frenzy.

I cannot believe how many people ITT don’t know what dps is. Seriously? DPS = damage per second. I’ve done quick tests myself and switched from GS to axe/mace because I found the HB “burst” to be an illusion. The huge # at the end is a great kitten stroke but the mobility and CC I get from axe/mace(shield for bosses) far out weighs GS. Also the dps I get from axe appears to be higher than GS. But extensive testing would be nice.

Wait, you switched FROM GS to AXE for…. mobility?

Not sure if serious

He means being able to move while using your attacks.

Take the number generated from HB and divide by the number of attacks and compare that to autoattack average divided by average swing time (HB only lists the total swing time).

Go to the Mists, take Steady Weapons, go hit a dummy without gear on and no talent points spent with both autoattack and HB only. Now put on gear (Soldier) just for Power and start noticing the difference. Then put on gear (Rampager for ‘high’ crit), get a baseline. Then with Rampager on, take the talent points in Precision for Forceful Greatsword with Might stacks generated from Crits. Calculate the results.

The weapon tooltips are useful for attack speed but remain deceiving. You are likely forgetting the weapon ability attack coefficient in your data if HB is that close to autoattack. HB should be in the neighborhood of at least ~13% greater over autoattack in the same timespan (not ~2%).

I ran some tests last night and they are much closer to Sami’s conclusion then to Mell’s. The swing time for Hundred Blades is closer to 4 seconds, and the total chain time is closer to a little under 2.5 seconds. Hundred Blades does more damage during the activation time of the ability then the total activation time of the auto attack chain. Flat out, your best damage option for those 4 seconds between those two choices is Hundred Blades.

Mobilty and the Greatsword is rather quirky in the end. Let’s not get too confused. It’s both less mobile and more mobile, in different ways. Less mobile while doing maximum damage and more mobile in terms of leaps and terrain movement. The Greatsword offers a lot more then just Hundred Blades obviously, and you should be happy with the entire kit. To me you use the Greatsword for it’s leaps and mobility with Hundred Blades as an optional tool to take advantage of. The MH Axe auto attacks are actually a lot closer to Hundred Blades in damage per second as well. Reminds me I should’ve tested MH Axe “DPS” over the chain as well.

Mell, I’m curious about the GS bleed build you’re running. What is your build and gear setup, and how well do you think it holds up against the critdmg builds out there?

I had figured that bleeds might be a viable way to take advantage of the points I sunk into Arms for Forceful Greatsword (and subsequently Attack of Opportunity), but that decision was based on a gut feeling, rather than any sort of concrete mathematical evidence.

When I have my guy gear’d out (level 80), hundred blades usually finishes off with numbers like 8k/10k/12k i’ve even had it as high as 10/14/18k on the final three slashes (pending boons). Try making that up on auto attack.

I also use the trait for might gain per crit on greatsword.

auto attacks range from 800-1200

Gurubu.1693:

When I have my guy gear’d out (level 80), hundred blades usually finishes off with numbers like 8k/10k/12k i’ve even had it as high as 10/14/18k on the final three slashes (pending boons). Try making that up on auto attack.

I also use the trait for might gain per crit on greatsword.

auto attacks range from 800-1200

That means the last two attacks dealt 2k damage; the numbers show the damage the whole skill did, not the damage of a single hit.

Problem with hundred blades…try hitting anything with a brain with it, you will deal 1k – 0 dps most of the time.

The problem with calling HB a ‘burst’ skill is that its damage is spread over 3.5 seconds without quickness. That’s hardly ‘burst’. Its more like a short-term increase in DPS that roots you. Good luck finding anyone who plays well to stand in it for 3.5 seconds.

Frenzy is the only thing making people qq about HB, and even the bads can still dodge/counter it because it requires you to use cc PRIOR to the Frenzy/HB combo. Depending on what they do to quickness, we’ll have to see if HB is even useful in PvP.

Oh yes, I’m betting on changes to quickness. I’d like to see it removed and skills rebalanced accordingly but I doubt that will happen.

This is pretty interesting. A few things:

1) Guys, stop posting with your accumulated hundred blades numbers. We know, we all have seen those numbers.
2) Even if this topic should prove false, it’s pretty eye opening to see that hundred blades and auto-attack are closer than we thought in considering dps.
3) Also, did you take into account the cooldown after each auto attack combo?

I’d say to actually try it out before criticizing.

What about using Hundred Blades with quickness and a knockdown so people cant get away and you will land every hit? Hundred Blades is really good and should be used if you know how to use it. If your just going to auto attack you might as well just be a heartseeker thief.

I dont think you have taken into consideration every possible setup. Power and precision with HB will pretty 1 shot any glass cannon out there if you are able to land the whole duration which is easy to do with bulls rush and frenzy.

With my rifle build with 22k hp full glass canon specced for F1 burst and #3 burst i was dropped in bulls charge hb combo, if the guy just sat there and spammed #1 i would of beat him which i did later on because his combo was down.

This isnt like wow where dps matters, its all about combo chains and counters and teamwork.

Like I said before if your just going to worry about 1 button dps just go heartseeker thief and leave the warrior.

I don’t really understand the argument going on – the HB skill does more damage in the time it takes to do said damage than the auto attacks can in the same time frame thus does more damage than you would do just continuously auto attacking… So why “avoid” using it?

I don’t really understand the argument going on – the HB skill does more damage in the time it takes to do said damage than the auto attacks can in the same time frame thus does more damage than you would do just continuously auto attacking… So why “avoid” using it?

Mell was asserting that this wasn’t true. Using the tooltips provided for auto-attacks and HB, they do just about the same exact damage over the amount of time that’s listed. Problem is that the tooltips don’t appear to be correct.

After about 5-6 tests per weapon setup on the Heavy Golems in the heart of the mists, with very low (4%) crit rate, using steady weapons, no traits for greatsword and no on hit tratis or runes, HB spam always came out on top.

Auto-attack GS came in at roughly ~1:40 to kill a golem with about 8-9 vuln stacks. GS + HB spam ~1:30 with about 5-6 vuln stacks. Auto-attack axe ~1:25-1:30. Axe+2 skill (vuln) ~1:20 with mostly 8 vuln stacks.

I realize that 5-6 tests per weapon aren’t that many, statistically speaking, but the results were always very consistent, within a couple seconds of eachother so I’m confident this would hold up over extended testing.

Of course, axe & GS have their own benefits, especially in PvP (whirl + rush are awesome for mobility). But for pure spam against a stationary target, HB does more damage than simple auto-attack spam and only gives up ~3% on the vuln stacks. Also of note, Axe without talents > GS without talents for pure in place DPS. I’d theorize that untalented, the best setup for PvE is axe+mace for high auto attack spam, 2 abilities that stack vulnerability and a long range knockdown ability.

The fact people are even arguing this is completely stupid, IMO.

Burst will always be better than sustained damage in PvP…

Skamlic.8041:

100 Blades in PVE is pure win. I hit 25k yesterday. 25k in 3.5 sec, with AA I do 2k MAX per hit. Enough said.

I couldn’t agree more. 100 blades does some monstrous damage and especially useful when fighting mobs.

Warrior GS DPS (always use HB)

/thread

GS auto attacks over HB…lol? You make good funny.

Redundancy basically confirmed my own testing done in a different manner (~11% greater return using HB – actual numbers were not posted).

Mind you, this is done with minimal critical chance/build optimization where HB (more hits per second over auto-attack) benefits more from Might boon stacking generated by Forceful Greatsword.

Why did you calculate dps for the whirl, but not worth the 4th and 5th skill?
Let’s see howmuch dps the rush does and decide whether that skill should be used or not taking dps into the account.

As a squishy mage on the receiving end of HB, this post is hilarious.

I don’t get why people are debating over which is better, I mean it’s not like you’re forced to use one or the other. You’re suppose to use all your attacks and if you aren’t, you’re limiting yourself.