Guild Wars 2

A few months ago the only class that I personally felt the closest to being “done” was the Warrior. It had uses in every game mode: PvE, PvP, and WvW. Now this is still true, but the other factor that made it feel like the most complete class was that it had a wide variety of builds. Some examples would be Hambow, GS+LB, Skullcracker, Condi Banner, among others.

However, over the last few updates that has taken a step back. The balance team caved in to the demands of the vocal minority present on this forums and made several nerfs that drastically reduced the variety of viable builds. When I say viable in terms of PvP/WvW (because DPS is the only thing viable for any class in PvE) I mean that it’s a build that you can run that is considered to be very strong at a particular role. Sure, you could run something else but you’re not going to be as effective as you could be and in PvP in particular this means you’re screwing over your team.

Some of the notable changes include the Skull Crack nerf, the Combustive Shot nerf, multiple trait nerfs, and if you go back further the axe nerf. I recently tried to play with mace for a few hours and boy oh boy is it a nightmare. Yes, it had a difficult to read animation but the increased cast time has made it simply not worth using. Now anyone with a pair of eyeballs can dodge it. To make things worse the attack will sometimes whiff at close range even if the foe didn’t dodge, blind, or block. Either the skill should have gained greater range in addition to the greater cast time or the new animation should have been added and the cast kept the same. This change also came after the Sigil of Paralization was fixed and so if combo’d with 100b you do not land the final attack unless they stand there. Combine this with the fact that you can no longer take Forceful GS and Unsuspecting Foe in the same build (because who’s going to put 30 into arms for that?) means it simply isn’t worth taking over Hambow.

Speaking of Hambow, that was what the recent string of nerfs were designed to bring down. What happened instead was that it got a minor nerf while hurting several other non-related builds. One heinous case of poor balancing is that Combustive Shot was changed because apparently someone thought it refilled its own adrenaline bar when it did damage, it doesn’t. It really makes one wonder how much the balance team plays because something like this would have been confirmed false in a few short minutes. Even worse is that Pin Down will be getting a longer and more telegraphed animation in the future. Now I wouldn’t mind this as much except for the fact that so many other classes have little to no obvious animations. I don’t know about you but see a tiny little hand gesture doesn’t qualify as a tell when Warriors practically hold up a sign advertising their attack. Why is only Warrior receiving this treatment when much more deadly abilities are insta-cast?

Going back a bit further, the change to the axe’s auto attack has made it a one trick pony, good for Eviscerate and little else. The most damaging hit is placed on the last attack of Triple Chop which is easily avoidable by humans.

The most annoying thing about all of this is that rather than using Warrior as a standard that they should strive to make all classes as strong as they decided to try and bring it down to the mediocrity of other classes. Now axe and mace hardly see any use in PvP and rifle never did even though it has the potential to be a decent weapon.

I know I’m just banging my head against a wall but please balance team, stop giving in to people demanding nerfs on classes they don’t even play. Feel free to listen to what buffs those that play the class think they need (within reason) like you did with Warrior sustain because positive feedback tends to always be better in an environment like this. When it comes to nerfs you need to play everything yourself, see if there are already viable counters, and if there isn’t then consider adding a counter to another class because this “shaving” philosophy isn’t working and is just removing weapons from play.

Respectfully,
Burr

Are you kittening me.

Edit:
I don’t see you complaining about cheeseHS.

Why what’s wrong with Burr’s message? It makes perfect sense to me. People think warrior is over-powered because of healing signet? lmao. I’ve actually switched over to playing my mesmer now in WvW because warrior vs conditions is just a joke. I run a build with healing shouts and soldier runes and also warhorn condition removal trait, necros and mesmers just melt me in seconds. It’s pointless and I don’t want to have to go everywhere with Berserker Stance.

While playing with my mesmer I’ve realised exactly how pointless it was just trying to be a good warrior, there’s no hope.

What we probably will see happen is another nerf to warriors sustain and condition cleansing (smth like cds for cleansing ire and dogged march and nerfs to adrenal health and HS) . After that warrior will be worse compared to pre heal sig + cleansing ire buff and complete trash for pvp again.

BurrTheKing.8571:

snip

Burr, just quit the game like all the rest of the pros and decent players. The developers have honestly no clue how their professions work. All that is left in this game now are mediocre players squabbling over who is rank 1 in solo queue. This game lost any hope it had a long time ago.

There are a lot of better games out there. I also heard/read that the newest update has a UFO in it of some type. To which, all I have to say is……are you serious? It is like they are actively trying to kill the game.

I left quite a while ago then decided to see if they changed for the better but it was just worse when I came back. So yet again, I am leaving (actually already left).

Best of luck and best wishes.

Nope, warriors have ABSOLUTELY no viable builds, because all the op traits and utilities don’t count. cleansing ire: not op at all, longbow: not op, sword; impale: not op at all. Nope I do not see any viable builds, condi wars are definitely not op.

Gutts.8791:

Why what’s wrong with Burr’s message? It makes perfect sense to me. People think warrior is over-powered because of healing signet? lmao. I’ve actually switched over to playing my mesmer now in WvW because warrior vs conditions is just a joke. I run a build with healing shouts and soldier runes and also warhorn condition removal trait, necros and mesmers just melt me in seconds. It’s pointless and I don’t want to have to go everywhere with Berserker Stance.

While playing with my mesmer I’ve realised exactly how pointless it was just trying to be a good warrior, there’s no hope.

if you’re dying with that setup, then either you dont know how to play it, oryou’re just bad. i’ve that build hard counters every single condi class, especially condi pu or clone death mesmers. the only hard condi class ive fought are terrormancers, and its not the condis that kill you, its the fears.

About Warriors i d think:

1 – Adrenaline gain via utility skills need be decreased.
Hambow and Skullcraker is very strong because Adrenaline gain via Berserker Stance and Active Signet of Fury, may be that BS need no longer grant Adrenaline and Active Signet of Fury has other effect. However, Passive Signet of Rage need be toned up, may be that could grant 1 Adrenaline per second instead 1 adrenaline every 3 seconds.
2 – Burst skill need consume Adrenaline even when miss the attack. Also triggers traits.
Is weird some people use your strongest attack at the cost of your adrenaline without spend any adrenaline, and consequently do not trigger relative traits.
Building Momentum is a joke because to allow someone to evade, requires that he go against the foe, lol. Cleansing Ire do not remove conditions if feared, blinded, blocked, evaded, miss, etc…
3 – Cleansing Ire are OP and UP at same time.
OP because allow remove 3 – 6 conditions every 10s (7,75s with more 30 points in discipline tree), and UP because requires successful hit to land (LB is the exception).
May be that Cleansing Ire need be changed to grandmaster tier and Spiked Armor changed to master tier, but the previous suggestion (point 2) need be implemented (actually, an warrior without LB is an warrior eaten alive by conditions).
4 – Adrenal Health need grant heal every second instead every 3 seconds.
Are no way of use Cleansing Ire to remove the rain of conditions and get benefit of Adrenal Health. I think that this trait could grant his heal every second, all active players burn the Adrenaline.
5 – Only 1 stance need be used at once.
Weird some one use 2 or more stance at same time, and the warrior become OP when active 2 or more stance at same time, even with too long CD.
- Balance Stance: Need no longer grant stability and boost move speed. Grants total CC immunity instead (actually isn’t a stance).
- Endure Pain: Needs to last 8 seconds.
- Frenzy: No longer grants quickness. Increase skills, actions, movement speed and received damage in 50% instead (actually isn’t a stance). Needs to last 8 seconds.
6 – Healing skills need be more appealing to face passive healing signet.
Just tone down passive healing signet do not will resolve the problem without crash the class.
- Defiance Stance: Need be instant cast like others stances.
- Healing Surge: Need have the CD decreased to 25s from 30s.
- Mending: Need have the heal toned up.
- Healing Signet (passive): Need be interruptible. The Active skill CD need be decreased to 15s from 20s.
6 – Shouts.
- All them could have 1200 range.
- All them could hit all eligible targets, without limit.
- Vigorous Shout still UP. Actually Inspiring Battle Standard has more radius, heals more, and no have target limit.
7 – Banners.
No comment more
8 – Elite Skills.
- Rampage: Just useless. Could be removed from game.
- Battle Standard: Need revive defeated players due too long CD.
9 – LongBow.
- AA (#1): Very weak. I think this skill could shot a single arrow that pierce targets in line (piercing shot). The cast time and animation could be of the actual PinDown.
- Pind Down (#5): Very weird a arrow aiming the foot pierce and hit 3 or more foes in line I think that this skill could be ground targeting, shooting five arrows at once that immobilizes (3s) and poisons (2 stacks for 12 seconds). The range could be 1000, the radius could be 240, and the projectile speed could be few faster that actual combustive shot and arcing arrow (these 2 skills also could have their projectile speed few faster).
10 – Greatsword.
- Rush (#5): Animation could be like thief evasion or savage leap that follow the foe if he moves. Or this skill could hit all foes in line, bleeding or tormenting (in this case, may become burst skill).
- Arcing Slice (f1): Need be reworked.

IchigoHatake.5098:

Nope, warriors have ABSOLUTELY no viable builds, because all the op traits and utilities don’t count. cleansing ire: not op at all, longbow: not op, sword; impale: not op at all. Nope I do not see any viable builds, condi wars are definitely not op.

Your sarcasm is palpable, however f you had read what I wrote correctly you would have noticed that I didn’t say they had NO viable builds. What I said s that there are much less than there were. It’s not balance to change a weapon to the point where they’re worthless, which has happened to several weapons.

wads.5730:

Gutts.8791:

Why what’s wrong with Burr’s message? It makes perfect sense to me. People think warrior is over-powered because of healing signet? lmao. I’ve actually switched over to playing my mesmer now in WvW because warrior vs conditions is just a joke. I run a build with healing shouts and soldier runes and also warhorn condition removal trait, necros and mesmers just melt me in seconds. It’s pointless and I don’t want to have to go everywhere with Berserker Stance.

While playing with my mesmer I’ve realised exactly how pointless it was just trying to be a good warrior, there’s no hope.

if you’re dying with that setup, then either you dont know how to play it, oryou’re just bad. i’ve that build hard counters every single condi class, especially condi pu or clone death mesmers. the only hard condi class ive fought are terrormancers, and its not the condis that kill you, its the fears.

Wads, you could be right. I admit I’m not the best at PvP in this type of game, but I’ve had a warrior since launch of game and played him quite vigorously. On the contrary I’ve played with my mesmer for around four nights now with just some random build I found on the forums. I am absolutely laughing at warriors. Seriously, I’m still experimenting with weapon setups and skills etc and I’m just melting warriors. I’m not exaggerating this, there was one condi warrior who came close to beating me last night and it’s because I was using a staff instead of my normal setup.

Every other warrior I’ve fought so far just dies or runs away. So what I’m saying is, yeah I might be a bad player, but find me a warrior of same skill level and he’ll be down in seconds or run away.

I totally agree with the too much shaving from balancing changes. That is across the boards not enough diversity. I mean the changes to ele on Dec 10th atleast had new traits but overall the shaving and dampening overall is depressing.

Note: on class forums related to Dec10th patch, Warriors had 6 pages of comments for their Dev thread and other classes had 12-28 pages. That is a huge difference… Since Anet shaves to balance I really doubt they will remain the easiest class to play.

If warriors took a step back, most of the other classes got pushed off a cliff by the Devs.

The issue of balance with warriors is less about individual skills. It is more about the “whole”. It is easy to see multiple areas where warriors are in the top 2 or 3 classes in terms of effectiveness (damage for example) but there is no real counterbalance where the warrior is in the bottom 2 or 3.

If classes are to be effective at everything (and useful at everything), then all classes need to be more or less equally mediocre at everything.

The warrior really has too many areas where it is top of the pile without any major weaknesses. By major weaknesses, I am not talking about access to a specific condition or skill versus key areas of play (damage, conditions, cleanses, ability to engage, ability to evade, range, healing, toughness, armor etc).

Warrior is certainly not the best at every factor of the game but where you are, there is no corresponding area where you are the pits. That is what is missing in balance. It isn’t healing signet it is that generally the class that does the most dps in melee is vulnerable to damage (lower armor/toughness without much ability to heal). It doesn’t have to be this way, but there does need to be a corresponding area where warriors are bottom 2 for each area where they are top 2. That is balance.

JETWING.2759:

About Warriors i d think:

1 – Adrenaline gain via utility skills need be decreased.
Hambow and Skullcraker is very strong because Adrenaline gain via Berserker Stance and Active Signet of Fury, may be that BS need no longer grant Adrenaline and Active Signet of Fury has other effect. However, Passive Signet of Rage need be toned up, may be that could grant 1 Adrenaline per second instead 1 adrenaline every 3 seconds.

Skull Cracker ANET eliminated from the game Hambow was ANET is in the process of eliminating this from the game also which also eliminated all of the warriors other builds as well… keyword was. Everything else you said was on point.

Then anet broke a ton of other things that were inconsequential hammers is one axes were another. And now longbow. Weapons that were pretty balanced and didn’t need changes all becasue they wanted to nerf certain builds that used them but destroyed every other build that used them also.

What is the definition of balance you use?
Too often that definition is tied to effectiveness versus having areas you are strong in and corresponding areas you are weak in.

You guys are crazy if you don’t think warriors are still far and above the best all around class. I main a warrior and if I play my other classes a few days and come back to my warrior I feel like a put on a god mode cheat.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

You guys are crazy if you don’t think warriors are still far and above the best all around class. I main a warrior and if I play my other classes a few days and come back to my warrior I feel like a put on a god mode cheat.

Maybe you should learn to master your other classes, i play also guardian and mesmer and i have fun with both of them, i don’t feel any different or overpowered with my warrior.

Gutts.8791:

wads.5730:

Gutts.8791:

Why what’s wrong with Burr’s message? It makes perfect sense to me. People think warrior is over-powered because of healing signet? lmao. I’ve actually switched over to playing my mesmer now in WvW because warrior vs conditions is just a joke. I run a build with healing shouts and soldier runes and also warhorn condition removal trait, necros and mesmers just melt me in seconds. It’s pointless and I don’t want to have to go everywhere with Berserker Stance.

While playing with my mesmer I’ve realised exactly how pointless it was just trying to be a good warrior, there’s no hope.

if you’re dying with that setup, then either you dont know how to play it, oryou’re just bad. i’ve that build hard counters every single condi class, especially condi pu or clone death mesmers. the only hard condi class ive fought are terrormancers, and its not the condis that kill you, its the fears.

Wads, you could be right. I admit I’m not the best at PvP in this type of game, but I’ve had a warrior since launch of game and played him quite vigorously. On the contrary I’ve played with my mesmer for around four nights now with just some random build I found on the forums. I am absolutely laughing at warriors. Seriously, I’m still experimenting with weapon setups and skills etc and I’m just melting warriors. I’m not exaggerating this, there was one condi warrior who came close to beating me last night and it’s because I was using a staff instead of my normal setup.

Every other warrior I’ve fought so far just dies or runs away. So what I’m saying is, yeah I might be a bad player, but find me a warrior of same skill level and he’ll be down in seconds or run away.

nothing personal, but anet doesn’t balance this game depending on how 2 bad players play.

i’m telling you a very skilled mesmer using a pu/clone death condi build will lose to a equally skilled and properly built warrior.

Marsares.2053:

If warriors took a step back, most of the other classes got pushed off a cliff by the Devs.

BOOM! /thread

MrForz.1953:

Marsares.2053:

If warriors took a step back, most of the other classes got pushed off a cliff by the Devs.

BOOM! /thread

Both of these statements seem illogical because it makes it sound like this kind of balance philosophy is OK, when it isn’t. Just because other classes have it worse doesn’t mean making other classes builds worthless is OK. In an ideal game every weapon would have at least one worthwhile build and Warrior was the closest to this. Only Axe and Rifle really needed major changes while everything else only needed slight tweaks here and there.

Like I said before, nerfing another class just to bring it down to the frankly mediocre levels of other classes, considering some are lucky to have 1 viable build, isn’t balancing but simply destructive behavior.

Other classes need buffs, there have been way too many nerfs recently.

Gutts.8791:

Why what’s wrong with Burr’s message? It makes perfect sense to me. People think warrior is over-powered because of healing signet? lmao. I’ve actually switched over to playing my mesmer now in WvW because warrior vs conditions is just a joke. I run a build with healing shouts and soldier runes and also warhorn condition removal trait, necros and mesmers just melt me in seconds. It’s pointless and I don’t want to have to go everywhere with Berserker Stance.

While playing with my mesmer I’ve realised exactly how pointless it was just trying to be a good warrior, there’s no hope.

This is why Burrs post is wrong…

You actually gave reason as to why warriors are being nerfed… BECAUSE IT RESTRICTS OTHER CLASS’ BUILD OPTIONS.

Every single Qq vs my class being called OP thread infuriates me sometimes because people believe their balance logic is so brilliant when its actually linear and in essence contradictory.

IF necros and mesmers are continuously forced to PLAY CONDITION DUMPERS while warriors can have a billion build options than the game is broken. Imbalanced.

Warriors only fear is condition-heavy builds well then whats the problem? durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

(User was infracted for this post.)
I would like to know for what.

Anyway Burr, just jumped to say; quit playing this game, bc theres no point to continue playing. It was show many times, that someone <cough cough to avoid next..ya know> have no idea what to do, making random stuff and in fact..taking players as free beta testers..“maybe its will work, maybe not?”
__
Everytime i see a perma torment from warrior i can’t stop laughting. So easy to dodge animation, yet so many ppl has troubles with.

Bow was a viable weapon..its okay, lets destroy it.. 1 nerf with radius, another in pulse bc its “refills too fast” adrenaline, idk where they gain adrenaline from it but kay, now pinshot will be turned into another killshot as well. Reason for nerfs? It was okay for over a year and became op out of nowhere?

Hammer – for over a year, noone, really noone complained about this weapon. Out of nowhere it became op just like bow and nerfed thanks to qq. At least it still remains somewhat viable but the animation of eartshaker which makes a crater to hit like a wind..Its funny

Mace – completely destroyed without compensate. I don’t need to say anything else bc everyone knows that its become a useless weapon like axe offhand now.

Gs – still buggy, still sux balls, and still dindt seen any changes done to it to actually improve it gameplay. Let me ask..who does enjoy performing an atatck in place for 3,5sec? Due to censure i won’t continue but u can imagine what i do think about u if u dare to say its fine.

Axe – for unknow reason to community damage was moved on the last hit again making the weapon unviable without any sort of compensate whatsoever. Axe as never good, all was going for axe was aa and evi, now its just has evi, everything else is useless.

Sword – new chain sux, simple as that. After a long time still no cd reduction. Sword supposed to be a quick weapon yet i completely don’t see that ingame everytime i perform final thrust. Flurry is unviable in power builds, we all know it for a long time is actually used as set up combo bc its damage is too weak, and doesnt even offer a defensive mechanic like for example blurred frenzy from mesmer.

Rifle – hur hur 10min killshot. I can go make a coffe, visit bathroom, come back and my toon will still be performing that joke animation. Rifle doesnt feel powerful, its feels weak, and is weak. Its was never viable and probably never will.

And my question is, why nerfs everywhere, but unviable stuff remains unviable without any changes done to them? Whats the point buffinf something to nerf it 2 patch later? Do u guys really think ppl are that re….ted to not see the point that u don’t have idea what u doing?

Personally i quitted 3 months, i don’t planning to come back, and the reason why i ever coming to visit gw2 forums/stream notes is to have a good laugh and move on.
The fact that theres still no duel feature actually insults me, just bc i am dueler from blood and bones. And don’t give me a s.. about teambased gameplay as every single thing nerfed in this game was from a 1v1 reason. By the time i was playing on EU, there was no warrior player that could come even close to kill me 1v1 when i been running something different than a troll gs+rifle. No condi joke, no cc spammer had a chance, yet the two most “op” builds in this game everyone crying about. But unskilled kids knows better, its easier to stand, facetank everything and few sec later receive message “yu nub warior op f.. reroller l2p”, nevermind he never tried to dodge once. And actually that kind of ppl coming here and keeps complaining about something being op. X skill is better than Z skill, nerf it asap missing the whole picture.

Hf in gw 2, its doesnt even have a guild vs guild feature yet called guild wars 2..Ironic inst it? U might like the game, see potential in it, but its a lost pontential. If u dindt realized that yet, i feel sorry for u. Its going to be worse, recent changes to sigils actually proves it, and they won’t stop here. Don’t be surprised once they make burst skills 20cd+ due to eartshaker, killshot and other stuff being “too op” along with cleansing ire.

Ah and sorry for gramma, but i don’t give a kitten about it.

Moderator Note:
“Please refrain from cross-posting/making duplicate posts. We understand that you want your post to be read by as many people as possible. However, posting the same post in multiple places only serves to create disruptions on the forums and this activity is not allowed.
You are warned.”

That was the moderator note, I don’t recall doing this. I did make a similar post…several months ago when things were different.

No change to warrior over the past few months has hit the class hard enough to make it useless in any game mode, or give any class a significant heads up advantage over it. The nerfs so far for the most part were well deserved.

As far as meta goes warrior is still fine in Spvp, Still at the top of the board for WvW zerg meta, still top 3 in roaming. In PvE while not being an optimal dps class it is still a baseline choice for many parties seeking a “heavy”.

People on a witch hunt wanting to see warrior nerfed into the ground are just a foolish as those who feel the class has no builds. HS should have been nerfed long ago. The active should have been brought up long ago. Every other heal especially Mending should have been improved long ago as well. There is literally no need for a warrior pity party atm. Some buffs are needed as are some nerfs but lets not sugar coat it like warrior is the useless class it was before.

What I find funniest is the idea that people do not play the class. I find it funny that when I argue with thieves that new pistol whip could be OP as kitten just like SC -> 100B was so Anet should not touch it I come here and read that the SC nerf was unfair. Or that Axe auto attack is should be reverted so that the last hit (like it is with all other auto attack chains) should not have the best damage but the second hit should.

Lets cut the BS. Warrior was the most we rounded class in terms of game, but considering 2 out of 3 game modes require balance more around the classes themselves vs the environment it is totally fine to nerf one class to buff the other 7. Or to buff one class to nerf builds in the other 7. It nice if we all saw pretty buffs every patch but knowledgeable players already know that a buff to other classes is a nerf to mine.

Look if “pro” players needed absolutely cheese builds to survive then they weren’t pro in the first place. If you quit because you stopped liking the game that is generally the smart move.

[quote=3541261;BurrTheKing.8571
Like I said before, nerfing another class just to bring it down to the frankly mediocre levels of other classes, considering some are lucky to have 1 viable build, isn’t balancing but simply destructive behavior.

Other classes need buffs, there have been way too many nerfs recently. [/quote]

Lol, I love this argument and see it so often.

When you have one profession dominating in almost all domains compared to the others you have two choices
=> one obvious: adjust the anomaly (realign things to a normal level)
=> one long, complex and finally bad : buff all other professions and enter in a power creep process

I am sure you have an idea on which scenario is prefered by warriors:)

Kicast.1459:

Lol, I love this argument and see it so often.

When you have one profession dominating in almost all domains compared to the others you have two choices
=> one obvious: adjust the anomaly (realign things to a normal level)
=> one long, complex and finally bad : buff all other professions and enter in a power creep process

I am sure you have an idea on which scenario is prefered by warriors:)
[/quote]

Because having half of a classes weapons be nerfed into oblivion is the preferred course of action and is clearly the best choice for the longevity of the game. You can avoid power creep if you stick to hard counters like they have been. It’s much easier to balance rock-paper-scissors.

So what i get from the whiners is that in a game where they promote no fixed builds the class with the most builds is op and should have them nerf to hell, instead of asking for fix and improvements for their own class. Think about it and you see how stupid u sound whiners

Yea, before the patch that nerfed the mace, hammer, and longbow, warrior was complete. If the goal of ANet is to achieve a class that has multiple builds that can flourish then they did so with the warrior pre-patch. But now the warrior has definitely taken a step backwards becoming slightly broken. ANet should have left the warrior alone but focus more on bringing the other classes up to par.

Doon.2364:

Yea, before the patch that nerfed the mace, hammer, and longbow, warrior was complete. If the goal of ANet is to achieve a class that has multiple builds that can flourish then they did so with the warrior pre-patch. But now the warrior has definitely taken a step backwards becoming slightly broken. ANet should have left the warrior alone but focus more on bringing the other classes up to par.

Thank you for being one of the few that appears to have correctly comprehended what I wrote. Several here seem to think that because their class sucks currently that Warrior should have to start sucking as well. That’s not how you balance a game and it’s really selfish thinking. I want every class to have at least one viable build on every weapon.

The same people that complain about how their class is getting nerfed then go and demand other classes get nerfed. We’re eventually going to end up with every class only having one viable build and the game will become stale and boring.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

You guys are crazy if you don’t think warriors are still far and above the best all around class. I main a warrior and if I play my other classes a few days and come back to my warrior I feel like a put on a god mode cheat.

i played mesmer for 5 hours and i face roll every class in solo q zerker mesmer is way better than zerker warrior with low hp , armor without OP HS , Cleansing Ire , zerker stance , adrenal health , CC now tell me how OP warrior is?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Doon.2364:

Yea, before the patch that nerfed the mace, hammer, and longbow, warrior was complete. If the goal of ANet is to achieve a class that has multiple builds that can flourish then they did so with the warrior pre-patch. But now the warrior has definitely taken a step backwards becoming slightly broken. ANet should have left the warrior alone but focus more on bringing the other classes up to par.

Thank you for being one of the few that appears to have correctly comprehended what I wrote. Several here seem to think that because their class sucks currently that Warrior should have to start sucking as well. That’s not how you balance a game and it’s really selfish thinking. I want every class to have at least one viable build on every weapon.

The same people that complain about how their class is getting nerfed then go and demand other classes get nerfed. We’re eventually going to end up with every class only having one viable build and the game will become stale and boring.

i knew this will happen i’m just waiting for TESO to come out and i don’t care if it have monthly fee if the dev isn’t listening to the vast manority of QQ’ers and WoW players that only know how to swing their God Mode stat weapons without using their brains.

jayson.6512:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

You guys are crazy if you don’t think warriors are still far and above the best all around class. I main a warrior and if I play my other classes a few days and come back to my warrior I feel like a put on a god mode cheat.

i played mesmer for 5 hours and i face roll every class in solo q zerker mesmer is way better than zerker warrior with low hp , armor without OP HS , Cleansing Ire , zerker stance , adrenal health , CC now tell me how OP warrior is?

Build and video please or hush in your corner.

I do not get how you are having fun still spamming your aoe dude. It’s actually funny to see how 6 months ago warrior was the harder to pull off since you had to time every cleanse or you would get your face stomped in by pretty much everything. But, now you see ranks 10’s on condi bunker warriors….. I honestly think at this point the passive signet needs a change along with longbow’s interaction with cleansing ire.

apt.9184:

I do not get how you are having fun still spamming your aoe dude. It’s actually funny to see how 6 months ago warrior was the harder to pull off since you had to time every cleanse or you would get your face stomped in by pretty much everything. But, now you see ranks 10’s on condi bunker warriors….. I honestly think at this point the passive signet needs a change along with longbow’s interaction with cleansing ire.

If you’re spamming Combustive Shot then chances are a good condition user will wipe the floor with you. If you get greedy and use your CS before the guy puts more conditions on you they’ll instantly capitalize and stack on you. This forces you into using your Lyssa cleanse earlier than what’s necessary and Zerker Stance doesn’t cleanse condis already on you. So while you may have access to it every 8 or so seconds on average that doesn’t mean you should be using it.

As for changing how CI interacts with CS, I’m not even sure that’s possible in the engine. That would, I imagine, involve changing it from something different than a burst skill. However you would also then have to make sure that it still interacts with other Burst-related traits correctly. I doubt it’s as simple as saying “don’t let CS work with CI.” I base this theory off of what devs have said in the past about what’s possible in the game engine. If you did have to change so much imagine how many things could get broken in the process.

I also don’t get how you can accuse it of being spammy when there are so many skills in this game with low CDs. Not to mention it’s also a class mechanic. So what if you see R10’s running condi warrior? You can see R10’s running any build currently in the meta that doesn’t instantly make them pros at the game. Most low ranks using condi war hardly ever use the combo field correctly and halve its effectiveness.

6 months ago people didn’t know how to deal with the now-good Warrior because them never had to try in order to beat them. It was just like launch where everyone said Frenzied Bull Charge + 100b was OP…until they learned that dodging and stun breakers existed.

We’re talking about balance.Which for me means that you can have a build for any class to counter another one,
I don’t want to go into the topic of the warrior nerf anymore since it happened and there is nothing to do about it.Still one might consider if it is worth it to spend one´s time crying to nerf certain skills…well we warriors know it has worked before
i’d say we still have viable builds like I play,for example full berserker with melandru runes and GS/Hammer or the always beloved S/S + Bow.I guess some hambow variations are floating around as well. I really don’t mind loosing against a better player but if there is no chance….well then it is pointless
I can have fun in pvp and wvw and that’s allright but still I’m not able to do anything against a really good thief or mesmer!
I mean …come on…this is unbalanced in a way.a friend of mine she is really good with her elemantalist,I am not sure how to play an ele but 2 stun breakers were not enough for me,and she won every time. I really tried every setup I know and i’d consider myself pretty good since I played my warrior more then 1 year now and I always do 1on1s.
So I’d say this is not balanced and the warrior needs to be thought about.It can’t be that there are just a couple of viable weapons.Every weapon should be useful,and there is no reason why a warrrior for example shouldn’t be able to kill a thief that has the same skill.As I said the main focus should be that there is a certain build for every class that can beat anouther build if you have the skills

doc phil.8015:

As I said the main focus should be that there is a certain build for every class that can beat anouther build if you have the skills

this is already the case.

Dueled a necro.
Counted their dodges and waited for them to be on zero vigor.
Whirling axe for full connect and did 11.5k damage.
Moved straight into evis crit for 7.1K damage
Swap to sword/shield and flurry immobilised them.
Broke flurry animation and used final thrust for 4.8K

You’d think that would be a “squishy” profession downed.

Nope. That was just their death shroud removed. I kid you not. You just tanked 20k damage and call me OP.

I couldn’t agree more with this thread. Dungeons have become stale to me. Fractals have become stale. PvP has become a mess of MM, spirit rangers, bunker engineers that can still condition, nade, big ol bomb you death. Warrior hambow and duel swords every where..yet the warrior who does not have endure pain on demand, no berserker stance and uses bull rush and frenzy and dolyak signet is getting lumped with the other 2 as OP and getting nerfed for justifications that didn’t stand up to scrutiny. There is a WvW warrior vid of greatsword warrior versus sword dagger thief..I can see exactly what the warrior is doing..as for the thief, not a single gesture or cue when or where they are going to disappear..to even watch how horribly rushed missed it’s mark in the video every single time is painful.
Darksouls 2 gets released in March. 2 other MMo’s are released dated this year. Bioware Montreal working on next mass effect series. Sorry gw2..you made it too hard for me to like you in the end. There is just no feeling as to where this game is going. You start off in hotjoin and endure the mess. You move up to soloQ to avoid the mess and get 4 vs 5. You go to Tpvp to avoid 4 vs 5 and get matched to a team 1000 ranks higher than you because the tpvp is too small. I like a-net. I love them..but i have also had the worst meal ever in my favourite restaurant..that’s what PvP feels like to me. You know it could have been better..but even skilled guys miss the mark entirely sometimes. It is just sad something that had so much investment just missed the mark and forget everything that made their previous offering so good. All for the sake of breaking trinity’s and breaking this, breaking that….well, it truly does feel like you broke it alright. I know it seems like I am a nasty piece of work rejoicing in saying hurtful things. This couldn’t be further from the truth. I was just a fan who really looked forward to gw2 and when I entered pvp and waited and waited for it get better..it only got worse and worse. “everything you liked about gw1 and more…” It has nothing from gw1 and progressively removing more and more. Warrior’s may as well go take a seat next to ele and wtheycan reminisce about how they liked us in gw1.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Dueled a necro.
Counted their dodges and waited for them to be on zero vigor.
Whirling axe for full connect and did 11.5k damage.
Moved straight into evis crit for 7.1K damage
Swap to sword/shield and flurry immobilised them.
Broke flurry animation and used final thrust for 4.8K

You’d think that would be a “squishy” profession downed.

Nope. That was just their death shroud removed. I kid you not. You just tanked 20k damage and call me OP.

Necros are supposed to be a bulky profession. They have no vigor, did you mean endurance because in that case just wait for 2 dodges and it’s at 0.
DS is pretty bloody obvious, why were you attacking the Necro while he was in it? You do know that outside of DS Necros have 0 mitigation options and all attacks would have connected straight into his stupid face right?
Wouldn’t you have achieved the same thing attacking a fellow warrior in shield stance or using endure pain? How would that have been any different ?

Finally, when you remove HP from a Necro he’s almost hopeless in getting it back, worst recovery options in the game.

It’s so funny seeing warriors cry about kitten.
“oh no my skills are not undodgable and now have animation oh no” give me a break, I use condi warr in PvP and it’s a beast. I have so much condi cleanse + 26k health, I definitely have more than enough cleanse to deal with everything, not to mention Berserker’s Stance.
It’s funny that you complain about not enough condi cleanse since we probably have the best self condi cleanse.
I use Mace for a very long time, I don’t even think the “nerf” actually nerfed it. Yes people can see it comnig now and that’s good, but having a cast time also means you can precast it and time it. I really don’t find it any harder to use the mace and it’s still incredibly powerful.
We have so much active and passive defenses combined with HUGE dps, we have nothing to complain about and we deserve more nerfs. Even the Devs admitted they overbuffed the warrior.
Deal with it. We’re OP.

I think skull crack change was good. The cast on it could be a tad faster but now you just need to count dodges requires a little bit more timing.

Anyway more on topic. I think warrior is ok right now. I haven’t posted on the warrior forums in a long time as Ele is my main.

People calling for a very large nerf to warrior and particularly healing signet never played warrior back when it was in the dumps. I feel like alot people don’t understand the class tbh. My only issue with Warrior is that it does just about everything Ele does but better with the exception of strong Aoe damage except hammer. I don’t like to let people speak ignorance so even on the Ele forums I try to inform people about how the Warrior use to be.

I think Jon doesn’t really want to nerf HS in particular to the ground. They are dropping it by 8% people don’t think that is enough cause they can’t count and want to see a nice round attractive number like 25%. I hope there isn’t some overnerfing that happens with Warrior.

I think the tweaks it has received so far still keep it competitive without it being cheesey like skullcrack(I still run mace/shield and did pre-nerf). I think the 8% reduction on HS should be enough and then nerfs should be done with on warrior.

DanSH.6143:

Even the Devs admitted they overbuffed the warrior.
Deal with it. We’re OP.

I follow just about everything on this game where did they say that?

oZii.2864:

I think skull crack change was good. The cast on it could be a tad faster but now you just need to count dodges requires a little bit more timing.

The issue with it is that even if you do count dodges and get right up on them, the attack will sometimes miss anyways. This happens frequently vs moving targets and that element of luck makes many decide not to bother with it.

I’m not sure how the set up hitboxes, but this may have something to do with the fact that the old animation was a wide horizontal swing while the new one is vertical. I’m not sure if it was just an aesthetic change but regardless it NEEDS slightly more range to avoid this issue.

BurrTheKing.8571:

oZii.2864:

I think skull crack change was good. The cast on it could be a tad faster but now you just need to count dodges requires a little bit more timing.

The issue with it is that even if you do count dodges and get right up on them, the attack will sometimes miss anyways. This happens frequently vs moving targets and that element of luck makes many decide not to bother with it.

I’m not sure how the set up hitboxes, but this may have something to do with the fact that the old animation was a wide horizontal swing while the new one is vertical. I’m not sure if it was just an aesthetic change but regardless it NEEDS slightly more range to avoid this issue.

Yea there are other attacks that suffer from these kind of odd hitbox issues. Rush has been a repeat offender, Fire Grab and banshee wail also come to mind.

@OP:

So, let me get this straight. The warrior becomes OP and then you feel that the work is done?

style.6173:

@OP:

So, let me get this straight. The warrior becomes OP and then you feel that the work is done?

The work was done on Warrior, they should have moved on to another class like Ele and focused on bringing them up. Warrior felt “done” because no matter your playstyle there was probably a build out there for you. Every class in the game should have that sort of versatility. I personally think it really sucks that many classes are lucky to have one viable build.

Now with nerfs that versatility on the War has gone down. What makes things worse is that builds that were just viable and not OP were harmed more by these nerfs than the target build, Hambow. Skullcracker is a good example. It was pretty good and despite what the forums would have you believe the real problem with the burst was the plain animation and not the cast time. Now SC not only takes what feels like ages to use but the sort range and funky hitbox makes it a nightmare to use. Not to mention outside of the burst the mace was only good because it allowed for it to be combo’d with 100b. Both weapons by themselves weren’t good at all but together it made for a good way to lock down a single target.

This build got shafted by the updates because in their attempt to nerf Hambow’s damage they moved Unsuspecting Foe rather that either reducing the bonus crit change it gave, or even more sensibly reduce the amount of bonus damage Merciless Hammer gave. They could have also make Earthshaker’s damage be applied before the stun so it wouldn’t have been affected by either trait. That way they would have only nerfed Hambow for the most part instead of destroying a build that they weren’t even attempting to nerf. And there are several other builds that got destroyed all in the attempt to nerf one. What’s worse is that said build is still one of if not the best build.

I don’t care what class you are, if you think this approach to balance is OK then I’m just going to view you as someone who just wants Warriors to go back to where they were a year ago.

The best balance decision they ever made was rather than starting by nerfing Necros and Spirit Rangers into the dirt the instead made Warriors able to hard counter them. Even today both of those builds mentioned above were not hit as severely as they might have been if they had simply given into the angry mob and nerfed them into uselessness. I see no reason why they can’t continue balancing this way as opposed to running around smacking everyone with the nerf-stick until everyone feels like their class sucks. I keep hearing people refer to this as power creep, but that’s a misuse of the term in this instance. If you’re only buff something to be powerful against something that is currently powerful then all you’re doing is playing a more advanced game of rock-paper-scissors.

This already exists in the game but it needs to be expanded. In the simplest of terms as things currently stand Control beats Conditions, Mobility (don’t like this term but I haven’t got a better one, I’m basically talking about Mesmers and certain Thief builds, this also includes many burst damage builds) beats Control, and Conditions beat Mobility. If we saw more balancing like this there would be more focus on team composition and how well you work together then there currently is. Of course there are some builds that are able to beat their general counter but I’m talking about builds that are focused around a certain task.

P.S This post was a response to many posts because I can’t spend all day responding to everyone individually, especially since so many appear to have either not read the whole post or just totally misunderstood what was written.

Cant we just agree that warrior needs to be reverted back to vanilla or at least right before they buffed healing signet? idk about you guys but ill give up zerker stance, cleansing ire and healing signet for my 10k earthshakers any day. (ill just ask my buddy to babysit me)

@burrtheking I agree with you totally on this. don’t really need to say much more

yah a lot of people seem to actually skim pick on phrase out of it take it totally out of context and start bashing your head in with it. regaurdless of what you actually said was.

I can’t believe you Warriors still think you’re balanced. This is a much needed toning down.

I like how people are pointing flaming fingers of fire screaming that x is op with no justification for it, i have all 8 classes in the game and i spvp with each one of them and don’t have PROBLEMS with any of the other classes while i am playing. Use you skills right change up your spec and get back in there stop shedding tears of i lost, just play and maybe you will learn how to deal with each class.