Guild Wars 2

After rolling a warrior my skills in playing another classes started to wither at an alarming rate – I got quite lazy while playing this class.
I don’t even have to dodge too much, most enemies aren’t able to get through my passive healing, I’m getting ~45 sec of swiftness every 60 seconds., permanent fury is there… It’s almost funny how easy this game has become for me. Also, everything just melts after a few hits, making 90% of the game a silly walk in a park.
Mind you, I rolled the warrior after maxing every single class except for a guardian (never liked heavy classes in games), getting the dungeon master and stuff… And in perspective, a lone warrior does pretty much everything that other classes can, but better, barring maybe the 1500 range of the ranger and in a team it can provide a lot of fury, might, cond removal and even healing through the shouts. Working as intended?

It was like this for me as well. I actually had to put forth effort with my necromancer, and my thief I actually had to pay attention to attack animations or get nearly one shot by regular mobs. My engineer? Holy crap, its like night and day. Hundred Blades is one of the best leveling skills in the game.

I went double axes, so I wouldn’t know about HB… And I also started with an engi, later an elementalist… And now I stumbled upon something that uses 4 buttons in a sequence, facerolling things ’til their blood bleeds. :>

I hope they never make other classes that powerful, it would make this game about as interesting as boiling a potato.

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

Short answer to the title of this thread: Yes!

Quakeman.9378:

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

I agree with everything you said but except with 1; “they deal damage like they’re thieves”

I will say again and again, Warriors should be Master of Melee Damage, not thief. Warriors wear heavy set armor.. resulting in more damage.

Ranger should be Master of Range, Long Range Damage, Applying Condition, Applying Traps, Removing Condition, Mobility, Regeneration, and Survivability; not Warrior or Thief.

Thief in the other hand, should be Master of Mobility as well, and Evasion; nothing more, nothing else.

Only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find these two classes being freely given God Mode status mechanics and having Full Unlimited Domination among the remaining classes and the game.

Why?

I leave that up to you to decide.

Burnfall.9573:

Quakeman.9378:

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

I agree with everything you said but except with 1; “they deal damage like they’re thieves”

I will say again and again, Warriors should be Master of Damage, not thief. Warriors were heavy set armor.. resulting in more damage.

Thief in the other hand, should be Master of Mobility and Evasion; nothing more, nothing else.

Only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find these two classes being freely given God Mode status mechanics and having Full Unlimited Domination among the remaining classes and the game.

Why?

I leave that up to you to decide.

So…thief should be master of running away, avoiding combat? I suppose they could be useful as node farmers but… this IS a game about fighting, is it not?

And heavy armor effects your damage how? I suppose the wight could cause you to swing slower, but I believe that would have a detrimental effect on your momentum, decreasing the force of your blow.

Are you referring to open world content or something, OP (every class facerolls open world content)? Plenty of things in dungeons that can 1-shot you, even as a warrior…And there isn’t really anything in them you can facetank.

Alternatively, higher level fractals are the same deal. Not as many 1-shot mechanics, but virtually anything can 2 or three shot you.

If you’re able to take more than a few hits from most mobs, you probably stacked up on toughness. Go full zerker since you obviously don’t need toughness/vitality if everything is faceroll to you.

Any class is just as easy to play in PvE

Mightymealworm.8409:

Burnfall.9573:

Quakeman.9378:

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

I agree with everything you said but except with 1; “they deal damage like they’re thieves”

I will say again and again, Warriors should be Master of Damage, not thief. Warriors wear heavy set armor.. resulting in more damages.

Thief in the other hand, should be Master of Mobility and Evasion; nothing more, nothing else.

Only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find these two classes being freely given God Mode status mechanics and having Full Unlimited Domination among the remaining classes and the game.

Why?

I leave that up to you to decide.

So…thief should be master of running away, avoiding combat? I suppose they could be useful as node farmers but… this IS a game about fighting, is it not?

And heavy armor effects your damage how? I suppose the wight could cause you to swing slower, but I believe that would have a detrimental effect on your momentum, decreasing the force of your blow.

The Rage with thief class; not only they are Master of running away, avoiding combat but they are also Master of Damage and Master of Survivalbitly.. seriously!!?

Warrior in the other hand with wearing Heavy Armor should be outputting Heavy Damage because once again, they are prepared for Heavy battle. They are fully equipped with axe, greatsword, hammer, mace, shield; why shouldn’t they output high damage?

Whereas thief, not equipping heavy armors with heavy weapons whatsoever, can output high damage if not close to the warrior damage?

Where in MMo history where you will ever find a class not prepared for battle is the last one to stand?

Where in MMo history will you ever find a class not wearing Heavy Armor can be Invulnerable to high damages, conditions, and survivability?

Where in MMo history will you ever see or hear a dagger can output high damage close to if more than a hammer, axe, greatsword, sword, mace and a shield?

None whatsoever

Well…………only in Guild Wars 2

Warrior risk their lives (without having no access to Stealth whatsoever), for battle whereas Thief having access to Stealth can walk through a full army without any risks whatsoever and still survive.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

Example; how can someone not wearing any bulletproof armor (thief) and only carrying a wooden stick, can absorb every incoming bullets and still able to walk up to his enemies and kill them with a single blow?

Seriously, who came out with this Ridiculous idea and Absurd design for this class?

well its called Warrior

anyway after you are done with your PvE, Warrior in WvW and PvP (beside Hambow & hammer train) is another story.

Warrior is the most telegraphed class, your best attacks get easily evaded against a skilled enemy you will notice this a lot, you will invest time to fake your burst and trick the enemy to waste evades, but in that time it could be the end of your warrior.

also lack of Ranged, AoE, teleports, instant attacks and AI compared to other classes.

yes, warrior is the intended easy profession.

i think ele is hardest.

Juba.8406:

Warrior is the most telegraphed class

This isn’t quite the place for this little rant, but this particular phrase always confuses me.
If you have ever fought an elementalist, this argument shouldn’t really be made.
I mean seriously, compare violently swinging a hammer for 3/4 of a second to having a giant flaming rock appear and slowly spin for 2 seconds.
Or shooting an arrow to having player-sized meteors fall out of the sky, while somebody dances around nearby.
Or spinning in place to spewing fire/ice out of your face.

CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.

Damage? You jump at someone with an axe. Elementalists crouch for 3 1/2 seconds while rocks float away from them, and have a red circle too.

Even for defense, you just stop taking damage, while we turn into a ball of mist.

Burnfall.9573:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Burnfall.9573:

Quakeman.9378:

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

I agree with everything you said but except with 1; “they deal damage like they’re thieves”

I will say again and again, Warriors should be Master of Damage, not thief. Warriors wear heavy set armor.. resulting in more damages.

Thief in the other hand, should be Master of Mobility and Evasion; nothing more, nothing else.

Only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find these two classes being freely given God Mode status mechanics and having Full Unlimited Domination among the remaining classes and the game.

Why?

I leave that up to you to decide.

So…thief should be master of running away, avoiding combat? I suppose they could be useful as node farmers but… this IS a game about fighting, is it not?

And heavy armor effects your damage how? I suppose the wight could cause you to swing slower, but I believe that would have a detrimental effect on your momentum, decreasing the force of your blow.

The Rage with thief class; not only they are Master of running away, avoiding combat but they are also Master of Damage and Master of Survivalbitly.. seriously!!?

Warrior in the other hand with wearing Heavy Armor should be outputting Heavy Damage because once again, they are prepared for Heavy battle. They are fully equipped with axe, greatsword, hammer, mace, shield; why shouldn’t they output high damage?

Whereas thief, not equipping heavy armors with heavy weapons whatsoever, can output high damage if not close to the warrior damage?

Where in MMo history where you will ever find a class not prepared for battle is the last one to stand?

Where in MMo history will you ever find a class not wearing Heavy Armor can be Invulnerable to high damages, conditions, and survivability?

Where in MMo history will you ever see or hear a dagger can output high damage close to if more than a hammer, axe, greatsword, sword, mace and a shield?

None whatsoever

Well…………only in Guild Wars 2

Warrior risk their lives (without having no access to Stealth whatsoever), for battle whereas Thief having access to Stealth can walk through a full army without any risks whatsoever and still survive.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

Example; how can someone not wearing any bulletproof armor (thief) and only carrying a wooden stick, can absorb every incoming bullets and still able to walk up to his enemies and kill them with a single blow?

Seriously, who came out with this Ridiculous idea and Absurd design for this class?

In pretty much every MMO, because in most MMO you have armor OR damage. Light and Medium armor classes pretty much always deal more damage than Heavy armor classes.
And you know what? Compared to most MMO I had played warrior in GW2 is much, much closer to Thief DPS.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

Warrior is the most telegraphed class

This isn’t quite the place for this little rant, but this particular phrase always confuses me.
If you have ever fought an elementalist, this argument shouldn’t really be made.
I mean seriously, compare violently swinging a hammer for 3/4 of a second to having a giant flaming rock appear and slowly spin for 2 seconds.
Or shooting an arrow to having player-sized meteors fall out of the sky, while somebody dances around nearby.
Or spinning in place to spewing fire/ice out of your face.

CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.

Damage? You jump at someone with an axe. Elementalists crouch for 3 1/2 seconds while rocks float away from them, and have a red circle too.

Even for defense, you just stop taking damage, while we turn into a ball of mist.

ele now is something else , i total agree on that.

but still ele has massive AoE/ranged skills which make up to the some telegraphed attacks it has also massive combo fields which warrior just don’t have.

“CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.”

well you cant cast Earthshaker from 1200 range also its Blockable .

PvE just isn’t enjoyable.

Juba.8406:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

Warrior is the most telegraphed class

This isn’t quite the place for this little rant, but this particular phrase always confuses me.
If you have ever fought an elementalist, this argument shouldn’t really be made.
I mean seriously, compare violently swinging a hammer for 3/4 of a second to having a giant flaming rock appear and slowly spin for 2 seconds.
Or shooting an arrow to having player-sized meteors fall out of the sky, while somebody dances around nearby.
Or spinning in place to spewing fire/ice out of your face.

CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.

Damage? You jump at someone with an axe. Elementalists crouch for 3 1/2 seconds while rocks float away from them, and have a red circle too.

Even for defense, you just stop taking damage, while we turn into a ball of mist.

ele now is something else , i total agree on that.

but still ele has massive AoE/ranged skills which make up to the some telegraphed attacks it has also massive combo fields which warrior just don’t have.

“CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.”

well you cant cast Earthshaker from 1200 range also its Blockable .

Still, just talking about telegraphing, warriors cannot compare to the massive amount of visual effects and delay on all powerful elementalist skills. (our instant cast ones are only actually high damage when we use 5 of them in 1 second).

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

Warrior is the most telegraphed class

This isn’t quite the place for this little rant, but this particular phrase always confuses me.
If you have ever fought an elementalist, this argument shouldn’t really be made.
I mean seriously, compare violently swinging a hammer for 3/4 of a second to having a giant flaming rock appear and slowly spin for 2 seconds.
Or shooting an arrow to having player-sized meteors fall out of the sky, while somebody dances around nearby.
Or spinning in place to spewing fire/ice out of your face.

CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.

Damage? You jump at someone with an axe. Elementalists crouch for 3 1/2 seconds while rocks float away from them, and have a red circle too.

Even for defense, you just stop taking damage, while we turn into a ball of mist.

ele now is something else , i total agree on that.

but still ele has massive AoE/ranged skills which make up to the some telegraphed attacks it has also massive combo fields which warrior just don’t have.

“CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.”

well you cant cast Earthshaker from 1200 range also its Blockable .

Still, just talking about telegraphing, warriors cannot compare to the massive amount of visual effects and delay on all powerful elementalist skills. (our instant cast ones are only actually high damage when we use 5 of them in 1 second).

just be thankful that you have instant cast skills plus also AoE/Ranged which negate telegraphing greatly.

Juba.8406:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Juba.8406:

Warrior is the most telegraphed class

This isn’t quite the place for this little rant, but this particular phrase always confuses me.
If you have ever fought an elementalist, this argument shouldn’t really be made.
I mean seriously, compare violently swinging a hammer for 3/4 of a second to having a giant flaming rock appear and slowly spin for 2 seconds.
Or shooting an arrow to having player-sized meteors fall out of the sky, while somebody dances around nearby.
Or spinning in place to spewing fire/ice out of your face.

CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.

Damage? You jump at someone with an axe. Elementalists crouch for 3 1/2 seconds while rocks float away from them, and have a red circle too.

Even for defense, you just stop taking damage, while we turn into a ball of mist.

ele now is something else , i total agree on that.

but still ele has massive AoE/ranged skills which make up to the some telegraphed attacks it has also massive combo fields which warrior just don’t have.

“CC? You just jump with your hammer. Elementalists summon a bright, ring of electricity that you have to walk through, for the same stun.”

well you cant cast Earthshaker from 1200 range also its Blockable .

Still, just talking about telegraphing, warriors cannot compare to the massive amount of visual effects and delay on all powerful elementalist skills. (our instant cast ones are only actually high damage when we use 5 of them in 1 second).

just be thankful that you have instant cast skills plus also AoE/Ranged which negate telegraphing greatly.

You have AoE and ranged too. Besides, ranged is easier to dodge because of travel time for the most part, not to mention that its much more punishing to miss with our extra-long cooldowns.

Again, the point of my little rant is that warriors by no means have the highest telegraphing. That honor, if you can call it that, belongs to elementalists.

I don’s see the point in threads like this, sure warrior is easier than other classes but it’s not an easy class to master or for lazy people.
I mostly play guardian these times but when i enter a pvp game with my warrior i use dodge / weapon swap / utilities as much as my other classes, if you don’t the problem is not the warrior class.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You have AoE and ranged too. Besides, ranged is easier to dodge because of travel time for the most part, not to mention that its much more punishing to miss with our extra-long cooldowns.

Again, the point of my little rant is that warriors by no means have the highest telegraphing. That honor, if you can call it that, belongs to elementalists.

“You have AoE and ranged too”

compared to other classes … nope we don’t

“Again, the point of my little rant is that warriors by no means have the highest telegraphing. That honor, if you can call it that, belongs to elementalists”

whatever, telegraphing is a larger issue for warriors being a melee class more than to eles who got massive ranged/AoE skills.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You have AoE and ranged too. Besides, ranged is easier to dodge because of travel time for the most part, not to mention that its much more punishing to miss with our extra-long cooldowns.

Again, the point of my little rant is that warriors by no means have the highest telegraphing. That honor, if you can call it that, belongs to elementalists.

Have to call BS on this.

More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.

And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.

Cygnus.6903:

Have to call BS on this.

More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.

And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.

Some of the strongest skills are untelegraphed/unavoidable.

Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.
Combustive Shot is unavoidable.
Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed. Backbreaker has strong reseblance with other hammer swings while whirlwing has really short casting time, yet they are extremely strong.
Arcing Arrow has pretty much no telegraph once you cast it on close range, which happens quite much in PvP since warriors are one of the few profession which can walk on points and walk away alive.
Whirlwind Attack is one of the most damaging skills on GS, second only to hundred blades, and it has no telegraph whatsoever because of how fast it is.

That said, the problem of animations and telegraph becomes a non-issue when you make an Asura.
On the other hand, having light armor, low HP pool and being squishy like kitten is not fixed when you make a Norn.

^
Coming from a Warrior player who still loses to Minion Necros, and he has a right to say Warriors take no skill.

Same person who actually thought Warrior was fine when Frenzy got gutted actually.

Amir.1570:

^
Coming from a Warrior player who still loses to Minion Necros, and he has a right to say Warriors take no skill.

Same person who actually thought Warrior was fine when Frenzy got gutted actually.

GJ at going through my whole post history trying to grasp at something to invalidate my point instead of just countering it with actual arguments.

Is that your way to argue?
I mean, if someone says “I think that Nutella is healthier than peanut butter” your best counter argument is “Three years ago you posted in a fitness forum about how to get in shape, that kinda proves that you’re fat. So fat people are well known to eat junk foods, so that means that since you prefer Nutella, Nutella is not healthier than peanut butter”.

Just lol.

sorrow.2364:

Cygnus.6903:

Have to call BS on this.

More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.

And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.

Some of the strongest skills are untelegraphed/unavoidable.

Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.
Combustive Shot is unavoidable.
Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed. Backbreaker has strong reseblance with other hammer swings while whirlwing has really short casting time, yet they are extremely strong.
Arcing Arrow has pretty much no telegraph once you cast it on close range, which happens quite much in PvP since warriors are one of the few profession which can walk on points and walk away alive.
Whirlwind Attack is one of the most damaging skills on GS, second only to hundred blades, and it has no telegraph whatsoever because of how fast it is.

That said, the problem of animations and telegraph becomes a non-issue when you make an Asura.
On the other hand, having light armor, low HP pool and being squishy like kitten is not fixed when you make a Norn.

Bro, do you even War?

Juba.8406:

Bro, do you even War?

Yep man, in case you didn’t played PvP recently, the only way to be competitive in that mode is to have at least one warrior in a team.

I guess you don’t play PvP that much, do you?
If some skills are so much high telegraphed to be extremely easy to dodge, trust me that none would use them.
Just look at how many eles actually bother to cast Dragon’s Tooth or Churning Earth in PvP. And by PvP, I mean not casual hotjoins where people play just for the lulz, but SoloQ/TeamQ.

Daerian.6523:

Burnfall.9573:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Burnfall.9573:

Quakeman.9378:

I feel the same, and this is exactly why I now refuse to play warrior. I just don’t find it fun that I don’t have to try to face-stomp everyone else; I get nothing out of it. I also feel that this accurately sums up what’ wrong w/ the warrior: it does everything too well. They heal like they’re guardians, they deal damage like they’re thieves, and they have high mobility to to it off with.

I agree with everything you said but except with 1; “they deal damage like they’re thieves”

I will say again and again, Warriors should be Master of Damage, not thief. Warriors wear heavy set armor.. resulting in more damages.

Thief in the other hand, should be Master of Mobility and Evasion; nothing more, nothing else.

Only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find these two classes being freely given God Mode status mechanics and having Full Unlimited Domination among the remaining classes and the game.

Why?

I leave that up to you to decide.

So…thief should be master of running away, avoiding combat? I suppose they could be useful as node farmers but… this IS a game about fighting, is it not?

And heavy armor effects your damage how? I suppose the wight could cause you to swing slower, but I believe that would have a detrimental effect on your momentum, decreasing the force of your blow.

The Rage with thief class; not only they are Master of running away, avoiding combat but they are also Master of Damage and Master of Survivalbitly.. seriously!!?

Warrior in the other hand with wearing Heavy Armor should be outputting Heavy Damage because once again, they are prepared for Heavy battle. They are fully equipped with axe, greatsword, hammer, mace, shield; why shouldn’t they output high damage?

Whereas thief, not equipping heavy armors with heavy weapons whatsoever, can output high damage if not close to the warrior damage?

Where in MMo history where you will ever find a class not prepared for battle is the last one to stand?

Where in MMo history will you ever find a class not wearing Heavy Armor can be Invulnerable to high damages, conditions, and survivability?

Where in MMo history will you ever see or hear a dagger can output high damage close to if more than a hammer, axe, greatsword, sword, mace and a shield?

None whatsoever

Well…………only in Guild Wars 2

Warrior risk their lives (without having no access to Stealth whatsoever), for battle whereas Thief having access to Stealth can walk through a full army without any risks whatsoever and still survive.

Does this sound reasonable to you?

Example; how can someone not wearing any bulletproof armor (thief) and only carrying a wooden stick, can absorb every incoming bullets and still able to walk up to his enemies and kill them with a single blow?

Seriously, who came out with this Ridiculous idea and Absurd design for this class?

In pretty much every MMO, because in most MMO you have armor OR damage. Light and Medium armor classes pretty much always deal more damage than Heavy armor classes.
And you know what? Compared to most MMO I had played warrior in GW2 is much, much closer to Thief DPS.

Do you know who are the Tank Professions in The Holy Trinity?

Thief? Wrong answer

Warriors,, Guardians, Heavy Armor Professions?

Surprise!!

Than what is the Purpose of having Warriors, Guardians in Guild Wars 2 if a medium armor Thief class can outperform them within seconds having absolutely no risks whatsoever?

Why not make Rangers and Engineers be like Thief? Seriously why not? Don’t they all wear medium armors?

To continue……..

Well, only in Guild Wars 2 where you will find Thief Profession at best if not outperforming The Holy Trinity Tank Professions

What a Total Disgrace!!

First of all you are wrong, warrior damage is more than a thief, not the other way around. If you are talking about having the highest single damage than it’s thief. Again as i stated; where in MMo history where you will ever hear, find and see a DAGGER outputting equal or more damage than heavy set weapons?

Oh my! a wooden stick does more damage than a metal bar?

Oh my!! A dagger hits harder if not more than an Axe, Sword, Great Sword, Hammer……..

Seriously, what world are we living in?

remember! this is not a single player game but an “mmo”
remember, this is not God Of War 2 but Guild Wars 2

Only in Guild Wars 2 where God professions are look upon as being “Balanced”, “Equal” -

Where did you ever hear Gods submitting themselves to mortals or beings?

Secondly,

name those MMo’s from your claims

Remember!

-you will be held accountable for each one-

sorrow.2364:

GJ at going through my whole post history trying to grasp at something to invalidate my point instead of just countering it with actual arguments.

So let’s try actual arguments.

sorrow.2364:

Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.

So you only have the extremely slow projectile to dodge? The travel time being telegraphed makes the skill telegraphed, I call bs again. Saying a ranged skill is impossible to dodge from close range is not an argument in your favor, because ranged skills of an elementalist have that same advantage. Yet you get skills without cast time, from range.

sorrow.2364:

Combustive Shot is unavoidable.

If you stand in it… Yet there is a big red circle telling not to do that… Quite similar to the Elementalists Flame Burst, actually. And if you want to complain about combustive shot being strong, it is our class mechanic. It should be.
In PvP this is a good area denial skill, sure. But you are not forced to stand in it, therefore it is actually easily avoided. If you play WvW, combustive shot loses a lot of it’s value (not talking about zerging).

sorrow.2364:

Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed

Holy hell, did you actually post this? Backbreaker is RELATIVELY TELEGRAPHED???

I’ll stop any argument here.

Warrior QQ has come to this. What’s next?

If people put half the time they take to destroy other classes into ‘fixing’ their own, this game would have perfect balance.

It shouldn’t be easymode. At most, a class might not require you to practice every day to work well, but on the other hand it should be difficult to understand and all about mindgaming (like in Dark Souls).

There should never be easymode classses. People should choose them because they like the concept.

Cygnus.6903:

So you only have the extremely slow projectile to dodge? The travel time being telegraphed makes the skill telegraphed, I call bs again. Saying a ranged skill is impossible to dodge from close range is not an argument in your favor, because ranged skills of an elementalist have that same advantage. Yet you get skills without cast time, from range.

Extremely slow projectile?
Which is your definition of slow, exactly?
The argument isn’t that it is impossible to dodge, the argument is that it is not that easy to dodge as you guys are trying to prove.
Actually, saying that is is hard to impossible to dodge in close range is an argument, since it isn’t telegraphed in any situation, but you can work around to make the skill really hard to dodge.

The comparison with elementalist makes no sense at all. The setting is completely different and instant cast skills are purely damaging skills with no utility and relatively low damage.

Cygnus.6903:

If you stand in it… Yet there is a big red circle telling not to do that… Quite similar to the Elementalists Flame Burst, actually. And if you want to complain about combustive shot being strong, it is our class mechanic. It should be.
In PvP this is a good area denial skill, sure. But you are not forced to stand in it, therefore it is actually easily avoided. If you play WvW, combustive shot loses a lot of it’s value (not talking about zerging).

In PvP you are forced to stay in it, unless you want to let the enemy team cap the node, making all the efforts of fighting useless.

Keep in mind that I’m talking purely on a PvP perspective, since it is the only gamemode I play.

Cygnus.6903:

Holy hell, did you actually post this? Backbreaker is RELATIVELY TELEGRAPHED???

I’ll stop any argument here.

Warrior QQ has come to this. What’s next?

If people put half the time they take to destroy other classes into ‘fixing’ their own, this game would have perfect balance.

It is.
I’ll dare you to dodge 100% of the time backbreaker casted by an Asura.
The animation is no different from an anonymous autoattack hammer swing.

Maybe on a giant norn the animation is easy to read, but pretty much every skill is easy to read on a Norn, that’s why none play Norn in PvP unless you’re a bunker and you don’t actually give a kitten of enemies reading your animations.

I main an elementalist. Whenever I get fed up of pvp I simply do some soloqueue on my warrior which I’ve played like 5 hours max and wreck faces with it. FYI I played the ele since launch and it still performs way worse than the warrior I just started.

It would be nice to backup claims like with my warrior after “5 hours max i wreck faces with it”.
I could say i wreck faces after half an hour with my elementalist in pvp.

Heimdallr.7021:

It would be nice to backup claims like with my warrior after “5 hours max i wreck faces with it”.
I could say i wreck faces after half an hour with my elementalist in pvp.

I did the same thing with my warrior. I picked a random hammer mace/shield build and just completely wrecked people without much practice. After about 3 hours of actually playing the build, I felt like I was unstoppable and could take on anything, and winning 1v2 fights easily enough. I still struggle with uneven fights on my necromancer, most of which I don’t win, and I have over 3000 hours logged on that class.

“Ryu’s fireball and DP are really easy to do so he must be top tier” is basically what I got out of this rant.

Kravick.4906:

Heimdallr.7021:

It would be nice to backup claims like with my warrior after “5 hours max i wreck faces with it”.
I could say i wreck faces after half an hour with my elementalist in pvp.

I did the same thing with my warrior. I picked a random hammer mace/shield build and just completely wrecked people without much practice. After about 3 hours of actually playing the build, I felt like I was unstoppable and could take on anything, and winning 1v2 fights easily enough. I still struggle with uneven fights on my necromancer, most of which I don’t win, and I have over 3000 hours logged on that class.

This is what you say without any proof, with my guardian i often face warriors winning the fight (sometime i lose of course), do i find only noob warriors or maybe reality is different from how you picture it? If the class is so OP and easy to play any noob should destroy me (or everyone else) pretty much every time.

sorrow.2364:

Extremely slow projectile?
Which is your definition of slow, exactly?
The argument isn’t that it is impossible to dodge, the argument is that it is not that easy to dodge as you guys are trying to prove.
Actually, saying that is is hard to impossible to dodge in close range is an argument, since it isn’t telegraphed in any situation, but you can work around to make the skill really hard to dodge.

The comparison with elementalist makes no sense at all. The setting is completely different and instant cast skills are purely damaging skills with no utility and relatively low damage.

Alright, I’ll bite again.

My definition of a slow projectile is not Pin Down, yet that isn’t my definition of fast either. But I guess you got me there.
The comparison to elementalist does make sense, however. Every ranged skill in the game with a cast time is harder to avoid when you get closer. I said elementalist, but I can take any class to make the point. That’s why you should stay the kitten away from the warrior that’s using his longbow. You will find when not standing next to him that you can and will avoid most damage.

You say instant cast skills have no utility and relatively low damage. To what are you compairing these skills? Let me link to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAif9qE4WY

This is not intended to make some point of eles being OP, which they aren’t. But they do have options, and this burst is insane, by any standard.

The utility in this spec is that you are the utility. You can decide the outcome of a fight if you coordinate well and have your teammate immobilize or stun somebody for you.

sorrow.2364:

In PvP you are forced to stay in it, unless you want to let the enemy team cap the node, making all the efforts of fighting useless.

Keep in mind that I’m talking purely on a PvP perspective, since it is the only gamemode I play.

Didn’t say in your post that you were talking about PvP, but I might have missed that in a previous post.

But then, you make it seem like combustive shot is the only ‘unavoidable’ and powerful AoE skill in the game… If you are going to be on point in PvP, you will eat AoE. Elementalist and necromancer are king in that area. So using that skill to prove how untelegraphed warriors are is very biased, to say the least.

sorrow.2364:

It is.
I’ll dare you to dodge 100% of the time backbreaker casted by an Asura.
The animation is no different from an anonymous autoattack hammer swing.

I will dodge it at least 90% of the time in a 1v1, asura or not, unless I get outplayed. A prior stun/knockback/knockdown/immobilize or w/e may open up an opportunity for the opponent to hit me with the extremely telegraphed backbreaker.
But PvP isn’t 1v1, now is it? When you’re in a team fight, you will get hit by the backbreaker you couldn’t see coming because the mesmer you were fighting was kittening with your head. The same goes for any other skill that you would normally (or better said, in a 1v1 situation) anticipate and defend against (like proper positioning against a backstab thief, popping a utility to avoid the extreme ele burst damage, etc.).

Let me be perfectly clear, I do think eles need buffs in PvP (and only PvP).

So many Ret Paladins begging not to get Crusader Strike nerfed… oh wait!

Cygnus.6903:

Alright, I’ll bite again.

My definition of a slow projectile is not Pin Down, yet that isn’t my definition of fast either. But I guess you got me there.
The comparison to elementalist does make sense, however. Every ranged skill in the game with a cast time is harder to avoid when you get closer. I said elementalist, but I can take any class to make the point. That’s why you should stay the kitten away from the warrior that’s using his longbow. You will find when not standing next to him that you can and will avoid most damage.

You say instant cast skills have no utility and relatively low damage. To what are you compairing these skills? Let me link to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gAif9qE4WY

This is not intended to make some point of eles being OP, which they aren’t. But they do have options, and this burst is insane, by any standard.

You’re losing the point of the discussion.
We are not going to make cross profession comparison or act childish saying “but look, that profession has this, it is unfair”.

This whole discussion started because someone claimed that warrior skills have huge telegraph and are easy to avoid, which is not the case.
There are skills with even less telegraph? Good to know, but it isn’t relevant to the topic at all.

Cygnus.6903:

Didn’t say in your post that you were talking about PvP, but I might have missed that in a previous post.

But then, you make it seem like combustive shot is the only ‘unavoidable’ and powerful AoE skill in the game… If you are going to be on point in PvP, you will eat AoE. Elementalist and necromancer are king in that area. So using that skill to prove how untelegraphed warriors are is very biased, to say the least.

Again, read above.
I’m not trying to push the thesis that warriors are untelegraphed. I’m just saying that the telegraph isn’t that much to justify all the other goodies that warrior has.

Right now warriors (and I’m referring to the meta stance/hambow build and some variants) have the best sustain in the game without healing power, the highest base health pool and armor, good burst damage, high stuns and CCs, extremely good AoE thanks to Combustive Shot and Earthshaker, good vigor uptime (Vigorous Focus), the best condition cleansing because of Cleansing Ire, high amount damage denial (Berserker Stance and Endure Pain) and incredibly high uptime of stability.

Someone said “but warrior skills are highly telegraphed”. Well, if the animation of skills is some sort of way to compensate everything else warriors have right now, then the telegraph is by far not enough.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

“Ryu’s fireball and DP are really easy to do so he must be top tier” is basically what I got out of this rant.

Also, hyper beam does so much damage, so it must be the most OP skill in pokemon. [hundred blades]

Not only the matter of easy and powerful skills, but also the incredible resillience, mind you.
Now, I think that warrior should simply have its ranged capabilities significantly toned down, that would be basically the only way to remedy the situation without buffing all other classes and ruining this game for all PvE players once and for all. :>

Easy to play? Probably. However I feel if any class is played by a very skilled player, they are incredible and can beat a warrior. Yes they are in a very good place right now, but that doesn’t mean it’s a lazy class to play it easy mode.

In all honesty, kiting a warrior is still a very viable tactic to beating warrior. It happens to me a lot and I’ve been beaten by a player that does it well. Warriors are good at sitting in the pocket. That was the design behind the changes and it’s worked. Change your tactics rather than going toe to toe with them. You might be surprised.

Warrior is the only profession I haven’t been able to level even to 20 due to boredom. Every other profession has made it to 80 (4 of em) or 45 minimum (3 of em).

They’re too easy to play and are strong at everything. They have high sustained damaged, high burst, high health regen, high armor, high hp, high mobility…am I missing anything? On top of all that, their utilities are among the most brainless in the game. Most of them are just pure stat boosters or long-acting boons (signets, shouts, and banners).

sorrow.2364:

Cygnus.6903:

Have to call BS on this.

More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.

And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.

Some of the strongest skills are untelegraphed/unavoidable.

Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.
Combustive Shot is unavoidable.
Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed. Backbreaker has strong reseblance with other hammer swings while whirlwing has really short casting time, yet they are extremely strong.
Arcing Arrow has pretty much no telegraph once you cast it on close range, which happens quite much in PvP since warriors are one of the few profession which can walk on points and walk away alive.
Whirlwind Attack is one of the most damaging skills on GS, second only to hundred blades, and it has no telegraph whatsoever because of how fast it is.

That said, the problem of animations and telegraph becomes a non-issue when you make an Asura.
On the other hand, having light armor, low HP pool and being squishy like kitten is not fixed when you make a Norn.

Pin Down’s cast time might be quick but this skill is also easy to miss and a lot of things can contribute to that. For example a random aegis proc as you casted it, a random blind. Or just people randomly dodging without actually seeing it. It also has a 25 second cooldown and for the most part only hits one person. From farther range it also isn’t too difficult to just simply dodge it.

I can’t believe people are talking about it being not telegraphed in melee. Most range skills in melee are and that is the consequence of being in melee sometimes and the choice you make. However range skills are very clunky in melee and you probably would take a lot more damage in melee before you land pindown.

I would like to see some of these warriors who have claimed to faceroll within the first few hours to fight some more experienced warriors and see how that goes.

Karlus, not for everyone it’s all about PvP, mind you.

killahmayne.9518:

sorrow.2364:

Cygnus.6903:

Have to call BS on this.

More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.

And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.

Some of the strongest skills are untelegraphed/unavoidable.

Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.
Combustive Shot is unavoidable.
Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed. Backbreaker has strong reseblance with other hammer swings while whirlwing has really short casting time, yet they are extremely strong.
Arcing Arrow has pretty much no telegraph once you cast it on close range, which happens quite much in PvP since warriors are one of the few profession which can walk on points and walk away alive.
Whirlwind Attack is one of the most damaging skills on GS, second only to hundred blades, and it has no telegraph whatsoever because of how fast it is.

That said, the problem of animations and telegraph becomes a non-issue when you make an Asura.
On the other hand, having light armor, low HP pool and being squishy like kitten is not fixed when you make a Norn.

Pin Down’s cast time might be quick but this skill is also easy to miss and a lot of things can contribute to that. For example a random aegis proc as you casted it, a random blind. Or just people randomly dodging without actually seeing it. It also has a 25 second cooldown and for the most part only hits one person. From farther range it also isn’t too difficult to just simply dodge it.

I can’t believe people are talking about it being not telegraphed in melee. Most range skills in melee are and that is the consequence of being in melee sometimes and the choice you make. However range skills are very clunky in melee and you probably would take a lot more damage in melee before you land pindown.

I would like to see some of these warriors who have claimed to faceroll within the first few hours to fight some more experienced warriors and see how that goes.

Read my other posts, which explains what my point is and why arguing about telegraph in particular is pointless.

By the way, your logic is flawed. If warrior is faceroll easy to play, then the ones which has little more experience win or it is a matter of luck. A more reasonable comparison is to match any warrior with a bit of PvP experience against any other profession, even against more experienced players.

That said, there are two kind of skills. Profession knowledge and game basics. Point is that the profession knowledge of warrior is so shallow that you mostly just learn what the skills do and jump in a fight mindlessly. There is no other finesse tied to the profession.

Many people reroll warrior in PvP to be competitive not only because of easy it is to play, but also because it is a big threat even against very experienced players.

Read my other posts, which explains what my point is and why arguing about telegraph in particular is pointless.

By the way, your logic is flawed. If warrior is faceroll easy to play, then the ones which has little more experience win or it is a matter of luck. A more reasonable comparison is to match any warrior with a bit of PvP experience against any other profession, even against more experienced players.

That said, there are two kind of skills. Profession knowledge and game basics. Point is that the profession knowledge of warrior is so shallow that you mostly just learn what the skills do and jump in a fight mindlessly. There is no other finesse tied to the profession.

Many people reroll warrior in PvP to be competitive not only because of easy it is to play, but also because it is a big threat even against very experienced players.

I’ve read it and while i do see your point there is a clear difference between having telegraphed skills and not having telegraphed skills. And one would obviously want the latter. It does detract from the class because you become more predictable and people can in turn counter that predictability. And having in game general knowledge also entails knowing warrior animations and knowing when to dodge them. And also having map awareness to better prevent being ganked by another player.

Fair enough, my logic might be flawed in that regard, however I mentioned it for a different purpose in which I will get back to later. But facerolling with a warrior in hotjoins doesn’t really hold any weight whatsoever (which many of these claims tend to be). And how do we define it? For all we know it could be 2v1s that people are fighting and that is how they define it. I remember picking up a mesmer for the first time and owning in hotjoin too. Must be easy, right?

And facing your own profession and somebody who is more experienced can also teach you that hey, I still have a lot to learn about how to master this class and play it to its full capability and that maybe I am not so unstoppable as I thought I was, and maybe, it isn’t so easy to be maximize my effectiveness Some classes are easier than others to pick up, but I think for the most part the gap closes quickly when talking about being masterful with their class. People who pick up warrior after playing another class just perhaps, maybe weren’t even very good with their original class to begin with. That is why when they pick up a class which is easier to understand and get a handle of, they do better. All possibilities need to be considered.

And even against other classes 1v1, typical warrior builds will struggle against Mesmers in general, condition engineers, a couple thief builds and dhuumfire necros although that is a little bit easier than the former classes i’ve mentioned. And most likely first time warriors will not be able to deal with them. That is where experience comes in and realizing that facerolling in some random hotjoin match isn’t the ceiling of the their potential; nor does it mean that is all there is to the class to learn.

I find my warrior to be significantly more difficult to play well than my elementalist. With an Ele, the vast majority of the time there is a correct answer to whatever your current issue is, you just have to find it and execute it. There is a learning curve there of course, and elementalist is fun, but it is learnable.

Warrior is different because so much of your decision making happens before you even get to a fight. With warrior you have to spec(trait, gear, utilities, etc) to develop a gameplan for anything and then apply your gameplan regardless of the situation. Because the toolbox is powerful but shorter than other classes you have to maximize the effectiveness of your chosen tools, which is a different discipline from learning to pick the right tool from a full toolbox.

Xernth.8561:

I find my warrior to be significantly more difficult to play well than my elementalist. With an Ele, the vast majority of the time there is a correct answer to whatever your current issue is, you just have to find it and execute it. There is a learning curve there of course, and elementalist is fun, but it is learnable.

Warrior is different because so much of your decision making happens before you even get to a fight. With warrior you have to spec(trait, gear, utilities, etc) to develop a gameplan for anything and then apply your gameplan regardless of the situation. Because the toolbox is powerful but shorter than other classes you have to maximize the effectiveness of your chosen tools, which is a different discipline from learning to pick the right tool from a full toolbox.

The problem comes when the choice is too obvious.