Guild Wars 2

Simply put, when compared to every other shield-wielding classes’ shield skills, the Warrior’s shield skills are borderline laughable. The only way in which they can become remotely close to other classes skills’ usefulness is if you were to take the ‘Shield Master’ trait to add a Might application upon blocking, and reflecting projectiles.

And even then, ‘Shield Bash’ remains unaugmented and deals pathetic damage with an admittedly reasonable Stun – yet on top of this, both skills have a cooldown time that is the same as (or more than) Guardian and Revenant shield skill cooldown times yet with less than half the functionality. Engineer and Mesmer though, are more balanced since despite their skills doing a lot more they’ve got far longer cooldowns times.

Here’s some examples to illustrate my point;

Guardian Comparison

‘Shield of Judgement’ provides a block and applies both Protection and Aegis to you and up to five allies. For the same cooldown time, ‘Shield Bash’ does meagre damage and stuns for 2s.

‘Shield of Absorbtion’ pushes enemies back and absorbs projectiles, and heals allies upon second cast. ‘Shield Stance’ simply blocks incoming attacks for 3s.

Revenant Comparison

‘Envoy of Exuberence’ is probably the silliest one, it has 10s less cooldown than ‘Shield Bash’, the Warrior equivalent, and yet has a heal and repeated Protection application. Once again, ‘Shield Bash’ does meagre damage and stuns for 2s.

‘Crystal Hibernation’ is downright insulting in my opinion, having the exact same cooldown time and Block duration as ‘Shield Stance’ and yet also providing Regeneration on top of this? What’s with that?

By now I’m sure you get the picture.

Something HAS to be done to make the Shield more than just an occasional block for big boss hits in PvE. Not just to simply balance it against other classes’ shield skills, but to make the Warrior’s more interesting and functional.
I don’t claim to have all the answers but having mained a Sword & Board Warrior since release, I think by now I’ve got a good feel of the class.

My Idea

Now despite my lengthy justification for wanting these changes, my suggestion isn’t actually all that complex. Since I feel I understand the design philosophy behind the Warrior, it’s an offensive, primarily melee class, that’s why giving them a Protection application would be unsuitable, or even Aegis – they simply wouldn’t make sense like they do for Guardians and Revenants.

No, a mighty Warrior knows the best defense is a good offense, and their Shield skills should reflect that (pun not intended) by making their foes less effective in combat rather than buffing themselves -

Shield Bash could have a Vulnerability application which would make it more comparable to other classes’ shield skills and their multi-effects, and synergy with the 2s Stun. My original idea was for it to apply Weakness, but having a Stunning skill apply weakness would just mitigate its effects since stunned enemies are unable to attack in the first place.
Shield Stance could apply Weakness to the foe upon hit, stacking higher with each successive attack, exemplifying the ironclad defense of the stalwart Warrior, and adding another layer of complexity to the skill. Enemies would have to know when to stop attacking, similar to abilities which heal upon being hit, and good Warriors would time their casts well when an enemy is using a skill such as a Ranger’s Rapid Fire, to maximise the benefits.

They could perhaps also be renamed to less generic sounding names too (Withering Bash & Ironclad Defense, respectively perhaps?)- any suggestions on that front, or constructive criticisms/suggestions regarding my post as a whole are welcome, as I know it’s not perfect. Thanks for reading!

TL;DR Warrior Shield needs a buff when compared to other Shield skills, I suggest giving Shield Bash a Vulnerability application and Shield Stance an on-hit Weakness appliction. Cheers.

I feel that you’re neglecting the utility functions of both Shield Bash and Shield Stance. Often when comparing skills there’s a balance that comes from the utility each skill provides.

Shield Bash: it closes the gap and is a leap finisher, it also has a power mod of 1.0 so you’re not sacrificing (much if any) power damage to use it.
Shield Stance: You can move while using it, allowing you to close the gap or re-position safely.

I’m not saying that these facts invalidate your point… I do agree that the shield might need a bit of polish… but when you compare skills it helps to consider all of the options a skill brings to the table. The Warrior’s shield brings mobility where most other’s shield skills do not.

~EW

Warrior’s shield is good.

Ciraph Firenze.8409:

‘Crystal Hibernation’_ is downright insulting in my opinion, having the exact same cooldown time and Block duration as ‘Shield Stance’ and yet also providing Regeneration on top of this? What’s with that?

Conveniently forgetting that Crystal Hibernation roots you and will auto cancel if you accidently try to move.

bro ur not gonna find anything other than misery if u compare warrior skills to other classes…..if there is something comparable ours is gonna be worse than theirs. Thats why our meta builds have mostly warrior exclusive traits in them.

Gs still gives you more defense than a shield will (for player vs player)…..which I find absolutely hilarious.

I mean gunflame…u got ur rifle doing all the damage. And ur alt u just gonna want mobility and defense for it to run away…travel….and kite the enemy when needed. What’s the best weapon for doing this? Its gs. lol. Which just so happens to be the best weapon for melee damage as wellll….(conspiracy? o.O).

Anyways shield on a warrior is a very good weapon when you DON’T compare it to shield of other classes. I mean thats what u have to keep in mind. The cd could be better tbh….i would like the shield master cd decrease to be the baseline tbh. But ur gonna be taking defense line anyways if u are using a shield (honestly i cannot think of a viable build that takes a shield but doesn’t take the defense traitline) so it is passable.

Shield mastery really saves the shield tbh from being a subject of scrutiny. That might on block was always amazing…the reflect was even better. Shield mastery gives u 3 things. Most traits will only improve upon a weapon 2 ways….and this is a tier 1 trait unlike forceful gs which happens to give 3 ways and it tier 2. Shield is great. If they nerfed out shield tho ……we would have something to complain about and we would complain was hard as you are presently in ur OP. But right now….just don’t look at the other classes
Take what we can get, and what we get from shield is borderline awesome as far as im concerned.

We lack the group and aoe abilities which HoT made meta…but thats another story.

I’m actually perfectly happy with the warrior shield.

Tbh, I have no major complaints about the class. Sure, I’d like to make a shave here, and a buff there, but nothing seems seriously wrong to me. At least nothing that should take dev time away from more pressing areas.

^ this.

Heck, I’d say warrior is one of the more balanced classes in the game right now, and strangely, even though i hate Elite specs as a whole, Berserker is more balanced than any other Elite spec. so as a whole warriors are in a great place. I feel bad for some other classes, because they are in a situation where they either get over buffed or over nerfed. At least as it stands, warriors are good +1s. you are never going to be in a match and think “Crap that guy brought a warrior, we’re boned.”

Are we talking PvE or PvP? I read the original post as PvE until I saw the bit about ranger rapid fire, but I think a lot of the responses are PvP focused.

I feel like in PvP, shield is fine. I don’t play much though, so I don’t have much of an opinion.

In PvE, warrior hardly ever uses anything but GS. Changing shield would make it more interesting when doing weird builds in open world. In difficult content it probably would remain in its current position of only being used for breakbars.

I gripe about a lot of things about Warrior, but shield isn’t one of them. Especially since the cooldowns got reduced a few months ago. The other classes’ shield skills all have gimmicks that make them situational; Warrior shield is effective no matter what happens. It’s the best offhand Warrior has, and probably one of the best offhands in the game.

Ciraph Firenze.8409:

Guardian Comparison

‘Shield of Judgement’ provides a block and applies both Protection and Aegis to you and up to five allies. For the same cooldown time, ‘Shield Bash’ does meagre damage and stuns for 2s.

‘Shield of Absorbtion’ pushes enemies back and absorbs projectiles, and heals allies upon second cast. ‘Shield Stance’ simply blocks incoming attacks for 3s.

Shield of Judgment and Shield Bash have the same damage coefficient. Shield of Judgment doesn’t provide any block other than its aegis application.

Shield of Absorption only activates a knockback on activation, meaning that it’s possible to just walk into the dome afterwards and land any non-projectile skill. Unlike Shield Stance, the dome doesn’t block non-projectile ranged skills (e.g. GS 1 on mesmers).

Revenant Comparison

‘Envoy of Exuberence’ is probably the silliest one, it has 10s less cooldown than ‘Shield Bash’, the Warrior equivalent, and yet has a heal and repeated Protection application. Once again, ‘Shield Bash’ does meagre damage and stuns for 2s.

‘Crystal Hibernation’ is downright insulting in my opinion, having the exact same cooldown time and Block duration as ‘Shield Stance’ and yet also providing Regeneration on top of this? What’s with that?

Both Envoy of Exuberance and Crystal Hibernation have energy costs in addition to their cooldowns. Crystal Hibernation roots the player in place for the duration of the skill. Revenants don’t have access to cooldown reduction for their shield skills via trait.

It’s also worth noting that both the Guardian and Revenant shield traits are generally either comparable to or worse than Warrior’s in most respects. Stalwart Defender provides +240 toughness while the shield is equipped and 20% reduced cooldown on shield skills. Soothing Bastion provides a channeled stationary block that procs uncontrollably at 25% health and increases boon duration by 2 seconds on shield skill activation. Shield Master provides might on block (no internal cooldown), projectile reflection while blocking, and 20% reduced cooldown on shield skills.

Shield is fine, it doesn’t need buffs.

The CDs for warrior shield are where I wanted then for the last few years. Just make the block actually block combo fields and I will be perfectly happy.

I would gladly give up shield of absorption for warrior shield 5 skill. Would synergize perfectly with guardian traits that activate on block.

Warrior shield is the most effective shield user there is with Chronomancer rivaling it.

A short CD daze + movable block which generally traited reflects and grants might ? Yes please.

warrior shield is fine.
it has been buffed before.

i dun want them to buff it cos they may over nerf it later.

Warrior shield is the only one that can have the ability to reflect projectiles. With the amount of projectiles in PvP and WvW, this makes it invaluable. Quick stun on it which can be used to set up a berserker burst, this works great with the class. Imo it doesn’t need reworking or tweaking as its fine the way it is.

Every other offhand for Warrior is much worse than shield. Warrior shields are a major part of why good Warriors are like demigods in WvW.

make shield skill 4 into 900 range

make shield 5 grant 2 stacks of stability and 3 seconds of resistance

lower cd shield skill 4 to 10 seconds
lower cd shield skill 5 to 8 seconds

What i see in this post is someone trying to make condi warrior more OP because torch is useless.

KhainPride.3987:

make shield skill 4 into 900 range

make shield 5 grant 2 stacks of stability and 3 seconds of resistance

lower cd shield skill 4 to 10 seconds
lower cd shield skill 5 to 8 seconds

/sarcasm

Fixed that for you

MrWhisper.4306:

What i see in this post is someone trying to make condi warrior more OP because torch is useless.

Or someone that needs to l2p. Im a scrub warrior/berserker and even I think that shield is in a great spot. Many times it allowed me to start a burst from a bit of range and it easily handles any pewpew classes (downed many rangers/druids trying to pewpew me from 1500 range) and it nulls physical damage. With the amount of stability I have access to, giving this weapon stability is just a waste and a way of making not as good players seem better by giving them a crutch (isn’t that the same reason vampirism runes were removed from PvP/nerfed?) Resistance, we already have pulsing resistance that, in my opinion, makes me feared by condi builds. I love seeing them try to condi burst me, only to see their "Oh S*it moment before I down them shortly thereafter (mesmers/chronomancers are a bit trickier with their stealthing and teleporting and whatnot but same after effect nonetheless).

Like I stated, im a scrub berserker…just picked it up a weekish ago in WvW and I already feel really strong with the shield. Just gotta utilize it right like any other weapon or skill.

I like the shield for what it is and what it does. Warriors are all about positioning and movement. Both of the skills incorporate that pretty well.
The ability to walk while using Shield Stance seems much more important to me than any additional boon it could provide.
Just hope unblockable skills and therefor an easy way to interrupt Shield Stance will not become any more common. The only thing that makes the skill look a bit weak sometimes.

Yep, Warrior’s Shield is good.. =D

i think , my friends a consensus has been reached. Lets end this thread now.

As others say – Warrior shield is the best shield in the game, in feel and play. Guardian and Revenant shields are backline support, with far less . Warrior shield is a strong defensive weapon, whether it’s with the proactive stun/interrupt, or reactive Shield Stance. It’s also the only off-hand weapon in the game that, IMO, makes excellent use of the two skills it’s allotted without feeling truncated or limited the way other off-hand weapons are – You have a strong bash, and you have a long block. What more could you want from a shield?

Even untraited, the Warrior shield brings a gap closing interrupt/CC that chains well with landing bursts and preventing disengagement on 4, and Shield 5 can be used as a panic button that allows positioning away from the panic area, to guard an advance against a ranged attacker, or protect a disengage.

Traited, shield 5 turns into a murder machine (Especially against unwary/overzealous rangers. Feed me your Barrages and Rapid Shots!)

That said – I’d really love it if Shield 4 had a quick (.25 or .5 second) unidirectional block during the charge portion.

The warrior’s shield seems perfectly fine to me, in fact it’s probably one of the best (if not the best) shields in the game.

Man, I’d love to have the warrior shield abilities on my Revenant or Guardian. Its easily the best of the three.

Nah, it is not the best. Mesmer shield is much better

Shield is by far the best offhand weapon warrior has right now. I would say leave shield as is and change the functionality of offhand axe, sword, and mace (which are all terrible).

I feel the shield is actually pretty good on the warrior. It theoretically forms good synergies with the class:

• The stun is great, it helps a lot in weapon combos, plus it can be taken advantage of with some traits: Body Blow, Distracting Strikes, Unsuspecting Foe.
• The leap is nice as well, can work with self combos (torch, bow), and provide more with Powerful Synergy. There’s a seriously annoying bug with Warrior’s Sprint, though.
• The long block is a life-saver, and Shield Mastery is simply one of our best trait all around.

Most of the time, it’s true we don’t take full advantage of the shield, though. That’s not as much a shield problem as trait design issues:

• Body Blow and Distracting Strikes are good traits, but work for condition builds, and Strength has no place in the Defense/Discipline/Berserker template. If going hybrid, then Forceful GS and Berserker’s Power are better options. Plus, most classes have stability now (thank you HoT), so condi-on-cc has become a bad option altogether.
• Unsuspecting Foe belongs to Arms. The trait line is not good enough, despite the excellent Signet Mastery. Maybe, if they could add the shield to the list of weapons working with Dual Wielding?
• Powerful Synergy… is a strange beast. I don’t really see a good usage of it. Haven’t given much time to it before, though.

Elegie.3620:

I feel the shield is actually pretty good on the warrior. It theoretically forms good synergies with the class:

• The stun is great, it helps a lot in weapon combos, plus it can be taken advantage of with some traits: Body Blow, Distracting Strikes, Unsuspecting Foe.
• The leap is nice as well, can work with self combos (torch, bow), and provide more with Powerful Synergy. There’s a seriously annoying bug with Warrior’s Sprint, though.
• The long block is a life-saver, and Shield Mastery is simply one of our best trait all around.

Most of the time, it’s true we don’t take full advantage of the shield, though. That’s not as much a shield problem as trait design issues:

• Body Blow and Distracting Strikes are good traits, but work for condition builds, and Strength has no place in the Defense/Discipline/Berserker template. If going hybrid, then Forceful GS and Berserker’s Power are better options. Plus, most classes have stability now (thank you HoT), so condi-on-cc has become a bad option altogether.
• Unsuspecting Foe belongs to Arms. The trait line is not good enough, despite the excellent Signet Mastery. Maybe, if they could add the shield to the list of weapons working with Dual Wielding?
• Powerful Synergy… is a strange beast. I don’t really see a good usage of it. Haven’t given much time to it before, though.

You forgot that skull grind makes strength obsolete….so there is that. Powerfully synergy is made obsolete by berserk line, arm is made obsolete by berserk line. For the thousandth time. Elite specializations are stupidly designed….but the shield? The shield is perfect.

I love Warrior shield, I slot Paralysation sigils to turn the Shield Bash stun from a 2s stun into a 2.5 stun, which trust me is a huge difference in actual combat, and the 3s stun from Skull Crack into a 4 second stun, which to your opponent feels like a hundred years if they ran out of stun breakers.

Then add the 3 second knockdown from Bull’s Charge.

No other class has stuns that long, it’s just a matter of timing them right.

Hmm, if you think warrior’s shield is underwhelming, what do you think of warhorn or off-hand axe?

I find that shield seems to be by far the most common off-hand weapon. If would be so underwhelming, not that many players would choose it.