Guild Wars 2

I know its been said many times before but why not say it once more. Dogged March is a start but we need more. It not so much about removing condition damage so we can just run over condition builds its about giving us a fighting chance vs them. I know many say food runes etc but fact is we need something more in the class that helps us manage conditions. Its not about making warrior OP its a QoL issue that seems to be ignored.

Not a flame not a whine but I think there should be more. I am not talking ele, guardian, necro, or thief level management just more than what we have.

I’ve been running Shake it Off and Great Justice in sPvP with soldier runes for my power build and it’s (so far) the best condition management I’ve found without sacrificing that final utility slot for SoS and I’m playing around with Precision signet right now. The only drawback to my build that I’m honestly displeased with is that while having to use two utility slots to manage conditions, I have very few CC options and don’t get many chances to land my HB burst.

Would be nice if our elite signet had passive condition removal or boon removal with a short CD instead of the Adrenaline gain. Warriors have so much Adrenaline gain right now it’s ridiculous. Or Rampage drumped all conditions and either elite made you immune to Cripple/Chill/Immob for it’s duration (or a short duration in the case of the Signet).

Just a few ideas to spit ball without much thought into them.

Imo it would be also viable to give us a trait that increases our damage per condition on us. Or give us stability when we reach x number of conditions. Or give us a speed increase per condition.

I think with a massive healthpool it should be ok to have less condition removal IF we have fighting chance.

Maybe when they change the passive on the signet heal, they can think about changing it in other ways. They can move it off the 6 spot and leave the passive heal as it is but lower the healing power contribution and at the same time change the active to a condition removal. Clears all conditions on a 30 second cd.

The only condition removal problem I have on my warrior is when I am going glass cannon. I have no problem using shouts, runes of the soldier and shrug it off in non gc builds.

Chesire.9043:

I’ve been running Shake it Off and Great Justice in sPvP with soldier runes for my power build and it’s (so far) the best condition management I’ve found without sacrificing that final utility slot for SoS and I’m playing around with Precision signet right now. The only drawback to my build that I’m honestly displeased with is that while having to use two utility slots to manage conditions, I have very few CC options and don’t get many chances to land my HB burst.

Would be nice if our elite signet had passive condition removal or boon removal with a short CD instead of the Adrenaline gain. Warriors have so much Adrenaline gain right now it’s ridiculous. Or Rampage drumped all conditions and either elite made you immune to Cripple/Chill/Immob for it’s duration (or a short duration in the case of the Signet).

Just a few ideas to spit ball without much thought into them.

Like I said in my OP there should not be a need for runes. It should be in the traits and the utilities. I am not saying we cannot beat condition spec ever. What I am saying is that we really don’t have counter play for it. Pure condition or condition variety builds (necro and engineer) we have no answer to. Even if you run shouts with soldiers it wont work.

Your ideas make sense though. With all that adrenaline traits that would get us to use it would be nice. Either way condition management for our class needs some looking at.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Maybe when they change the passive on the signet heal, they can think about changing it in other ways. They can move it off the 6 spot and leave the passive heal as it is but lower the healing power contribution and at the same time change the active to a condition removal. Clears all conditions on a 30 second cd.

The only condition removal problem I have on my warrior is when I am going glass cannon. I have no problem using shouts, runes of the soldier and shrug it off in non gc builds.

I thought about this also but I doubt they will do it as long as mending is around. That being said it is not a bad idea. Active condition removal is ok at best shrug it off removes one which is a crime lol. We need something passive imho. Something that doesn’t require us to blow and stun breaker or a signet for. Not wipe just 1 condition x amount of time.

YourOwnFear.2743:

The only condition removal problem I have on my warrior is when I am going glass cannon.

Maybe that’s why I always find these threads confusing… between the heal, shout, traited auto-shout, warhorn, traited warhorn, (any) traited heal, signet, and that other trait that breaks immobilise if we use a movement skill, I’ve really never thought of warriors as being inherently weak vs conditions. But then, lots of people play them as glass cannons. I suppose they just don’t use those things much.

TheGuy.3568:

Chesire.9043:

I’ve been running Shake it Off and Great Justice in sPvP with soldier runes for my power build and it’s (so far) the best condition management I’ve found without sacrificing that final utility slot for SoS and I’m playing around with Precision signet right now. The only drawback to my build that I’m honestly displeased with is that while having to use two utility slots to manage conditions, I have very few CC options and don’t get many chances to land my HB burst.

Would be nice if our elite signet had passive condition removal or boon removal with a short CD instead of the Adrenaline gain. Warriors have so much Adrenaline gain right now it’s ridiculous. Or Rampage drumped all conditions and either elite made you immune to Cripple/Chill/Immob for it’s duration (or a short duration in the case of the Signet).

Just a few ideas to spit ball without much thought into them.

Like I said in my OP there should not be a need for runes. It should be in the traits and the utilities. I am not saying we cannot beat condition spec ever. What I am saying is that we really don’t have counter play for it. Pure condition or condition variety builds (necro and engineer) we have no answer to. Even if you run shouts with soldiers it wont work.

Your ideas make sense though. With all that adrenaline traits that would get us to use it would be nice. Either way condition management for our class needs some looking at.

Pretty much this

LameFox.6349:

YourOwnFear.2743:

The only condition removal problem I have on my warrior is when I am going glass cannon.

Maybe that’s why I always find these threads confusing… between the heal, shout, traited auto-shout, warhorn, traited warhorn, (any) traited heal, signet, and that other trait that breaks immobilise if we use a movement skill, I’ve really never thought of warriors as being inherently weak vs conditions. But then, lots of people play them as glass cannons. I suppose they just don’t use those things much.

Its not that. Because i get what you are saying. You see x y z active but you see no passive. For example. You have tanky thief build. You get a trait that you remove one condition every 3 seconds in stealth and one upon entering. You also get condition removal in sword 2’s stun breaker no cd other than initiative regen. 2 of your 3 heals have a condition removal component. 1 DPS ones the other all movement impairs. I am not targeting thieves but that’s a lot of condition management if you really want to have it.

Now looking at us lets get rid of the sword one since we have warhorn (but the CD). Even the heal since we have mending(2 vs 3 but still). The one to look at is the passive on stealth. For doing something you are going to do anyway across multiple weapon sets you get passive removal. You don’t have to have it but the option is there. Same with eles and water and guardians with their heal signet. Not tied to a weapon set in as much s it tied to the class and its basic play.

With the exception of mesmers (lol) everyone else gets it. Why not us? I am not asking for the same level as the others but some passive would be nice.

This is also part of the reason we cant bunker besides no sustained. Unless out healing numbers come up (which seems unlikely due to Jon’s last post) we are still going to need better management. I don’t want to be OP. Because the amount we get to remove plus the runes we are forced into for it make this an issue.

Tl;DR

Its all about the passive removal not active removal.

LameFox.6349:

YourOwnFear.2743:

The only condition removal problem I have on my warrior is when I am going glass cannon.

Maybe that’s why I always find these threads confusing… between the heal, shout, traited auto-shout, warhorn, traited warhorn, (any) traited heal, signet, and that other trait that breaks immobilise if we use a movement skill, I’ve really never thought of warriors as being inherently weak vs conditions. But then, lots of people play them as glass cannons. I suppose they just don’t use those things much.

Building like that makes you useless for anything else. You become nothing but a damage sponge with some support, and unlike real bunker builds, you won’t even be able to sustain your HP from the damage you take. (take it from the guy who’s played Shout Heal since BWE)

So you’re not putting pressure on anyone, you’re not sustainable, you just run around buffing teammates and shrugging conditions, and from time to time, you see someone caught in an immobilize net, you rush and do your 100B or something, and convince yourself what an amazing killing machine you are :p

TheGuy.3568:

<truncated>

So something like an improvement to (replacement for?) ‘shrug it off’? Or on the other hand, an improvement to ‘shake it off’ that by extension improved ‘shrug it off’? Not that it’s quite the same mechanic, but it does remove conditions without player interference.

gfox.6501:

Building like that makes you useless for anything else. You become nothing but a damage sponge with some support, and unlike real bunker builds, you won’t even be able to sustain your HP from the damage you take. (take it from the guy who’s played Shout Heal since BWE)

So you’re not putting pressure on anyone, you’re not sustainable, you just run around buffing teammates and shrugging conditions, and from time to time, you see someone caught in an immobilize net, you rush and do your 100B or something, and convince yourself what an amazing killing machine you are :p

…let’s just say I use WvW to fulfil my player-fighting desires, and the stats available there make it more viable to have good damage/resilience without necessarily constantly replenishing your health. It’s such that in smaller groups or larger, spread-out battles, it’s able to hold its own long enough for allies to respond (so basically, it’s a trap) but also avoids the problem of being ignorable due to only having resilience and no particular damage output.

The fact that nearby allies are buffed/de-conditioned is sort of an incidental bonus, which also means that in the (admittedly brief, if not necessarily rare) case there are a few similar builds together, their resilience and damage scale quite nicely. Also pretty handy for getting people off the floor when they fall over (and if you get bored or want to drink tea with your other hand, manning siege equipment).

As for the warriors in sPvP/tPvP, well, they have my sympathy. I wouldn’t want to be one, and I think the attempt at creating a game within a game that has a slightly different but not quite separate rulebook in spite of having wildly different environments (by which I mean stats, player numbers, objectives, etc.) has proven a lousy idea that generates questionable balance in both cases. However, I can’t complain too much because every time they buff you guys for being the victims of their laboratory-environment-style ‘balance’, I seem to benefit disproportionately everywhere else. ;P

LameFox.6349:

TheGuy.3568:

<truncated>

So something like an improvement to (replacement for?) ‘shrug it off’? Or on the other hand, an improvement to ‘shake it off’ that by extension improved ‘shrug it off’? Not that it’s quite the same mechanic, but it does remove conditions without player interference.

The issue is that Shrug it off requires 2 condtions to activate and has a 30 second icd. If it was 20 and removed on the first I would accep that.

There is another issue Purity, Shadow’s Embrace, Cleansing Water, Shrouded Removal catch the pattern?

5 4 5 6

Shrug It Off = 7. It kills shout CD reduction for healing shouts and ends up as master trait while being worse than the rest of those adept traits.

TheGuy.3568:

LameFox.6349:

TheGuy.3568:

<truncated>

So something like an improvement to (replacement for?) ‘shrug it off’? Or on the other hand, an improvement to ‘shake it off’ that by extension improved ‘shrug it off’? Not that it’s quite the same mechanic, but it does remove conditions without player interference.

The issue is that Shrug it off requires 2 condtions to activate and has a 30 second icd. If it was 20 and removed on the first I would accep that.

There is another issue Purity, Shadow’s Embrace, Cleansing Water, Shrouded Removal catch the pattern?

5 4 5 6

Shrug It Off = 7. It kills shout CD reduction for healing shouts and ends up as master trait while being worse than the rest of those adept traits.

The issue with shrug off is that it removes the first condition you get hit by instead of prioritizing. It will remove that one bleed when you really wanted to get rid of that poison or burn.

Now with that dogged trait it might even remove that tiny cripple

LameFox.6349:

…let’s just say I use WvW to fulfil my player-fighting desires, and the stats available there make it more viable to have good damage/resilience without necessarily constantly replenishing your health.

Definitely agree. Melandru/Grass/traited horn lets me faceroll condition builds, and in the inevitability I get focused in WvW, I can speed out, dump half of my conditions on the ground or convert them to boons, then rush right back in seconds later. We’re actually viable there, unlike the unbalanced catastrophe that is PvP.

TheGuy.3568:

LameFox.6349:

TheGuy.3568:

<truncated>

So something like an improvement to (replacement for?) ‘shrug it off’? Or on the other hand, an improvement to ‘shake it off’ that by extension improved ‘shrug it off’? Not that it’s quite the same mechanic, but it does remove conditions without player interference.

The issue is that Shrug it off requires 2 condtions to activate and has a 30 second icd. If it was 20 and removed on the first I would accep that.

There is another issue Purity, Shadow’s Embrace, Cleansing Water, Shrouded Removal catch the pattern?

5 4 5 6

Shrug It Off = 7. It kills shout CD reduction for healing shouts and ends up as master trait while being worse than the rest of those adept traits.

I think it might be misworded or something re: two conditions. It seems to trigger for me when I get additional stacks of the same condition (perhaps in addition to two types?) unless it’s happening so fast that the other condition never even appears on my HUD. I do find the cooldown and position a bit disappointing though, considering both shout c/d and warhorn c/d (and condition removal, even) occupy the same place.

In fact, I wonder why it isn’t the same trait as the c/d reduction. That would make it better fitting of a middle slot, I think (conversely, there’s the c/d and increase to damage for physical skills, which really isn’t awesome enough to be 3rd slot and should probably come down from there before it hurts itself). The signet one at least makes more sense for 10pts.

Yes, more love for the warhorn trait. Or warhorn in general.

If there is some passive added or maybe a buff to shrug it off (which would mean possible buff to shake it off) I feel like it has to be 20 points into tactics. Passive condi removals like shadows embrace make it so you basically don’t have to have condi removal on your bar.

Mesmers get a good passive at 30 points in inspiration remove condition on shatter and from my testing the other day if you have 3 clones out and shatter it each one represents a condition that gets removed if it connects. If you have no target then your hurting or they get killed but you do have distortion that doesn’t require a hit. Thats just for passive comparison sake.

So I think 20 pts into tactics or something in tactics would be good. If the passive was good like shadows embrace or ele passive and it was only 10 points in tactics I don’t know that might be borderline opish. I would give up 10 points in defense for that all day there is no hard choice at 10 points in tactics unless you absolutely love leg specialist its great but not a must have.

I can’t see it in anywhere else except maybe brawn some kind of way but I actually like the DoTE suggestion to move to brawn. I think if it is 1 or 2 conditions with the way shrug it off is now then moved to 10 points in tactics I think thats fair but if it gets buffed to shadow embrace or ele condi removal effectiveness it has to be 20 points into tactics imo.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Melandru

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

You’re Welcome

Rezzet.3614:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Melandru

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

You’re Welcome

You need to read the OP before you comment. There seems to be an issue here where people love to talk but never read.

LameFox.6349:

TheGuy.3568:

LameFox.6349:

TheGuy.3568:

<truncated>

So something like an improvement to (replacement for?) ‘shrug it off’? Or on the other hand, an improvement to ‘shake it off’ that by extension improved ‘shrug it off’? Not that it’s quite the same mechanic, but it does remove conditions without player interference.

The issue is that Shrug it off requires 2 condtions to activate and has a 30 second icd. If it was 20 and removed on the first I would accep that.

There is another issue Purity, Shadow’s Embrace, Cleansing Water, Shrouded Removal catch the pattern?

5 4 5 6

Shrug It Off = 7. It kills shout CD reduction for healing shouts and ends up as master trait while being worse than the rest of those adept traits.

I think it might be misworded or something re: two conditions. It seems to trigger for me when I get additional stacks of the same condition (perhaps in addition to two types?) unless it’s happening so fast that the other condition never even appears on my HUD. I do find the cooldown and position a bit disappointing though, considering both shout c/d and warhorn c/d (and condition removal, even) occupy the same place.

In fact, I wonder why it isn’t the same trait as the c/d reduction. That would make it better fitting of a middle slot, I think (conversely, there’s the c/d and increase to damage for physical skills, which really isn’t awesome enough to be 3rd slot and should probably come down from there before it hurts itself). The signet one at least makes more sense for 10pts.

If you get 2 stacks of a stacking condition then yes the second stack will activate it. There is no antics with semantic here it does what it says it does to the letter.

CD reduction cross class is the master slot trait in most cases. It is not strange to see both of them there at all. Disappointing but not strange.

Shrug it off simply isn’t useful enough to be master trait. The CD is over the top and the removal is weak at best. It does act like other traits that when you have x amount of condition something happens but the CD and effectiveness are what makes it useless.

Also in reference to the poster who doesn’t read. It should be made clear that the biggest thing you could give up in your armor are stat points. If you choose to use a rune set the the point should be that it enhances your build. While it may naturally fill in for something you aren’t speced for it should by no means be your main access to it. For all those time you fight someone who’s power crit you kitten yourself heavily.

Like I said before the goal is not to become OP vs conditions but for management to be better. The only way to do that is to make it an adept passive trait. It should not be tied to a weapon set like a said with thief sword that doesn’t matter all that matters is the passive trait.

The reason I found the wording strange is mostly that I was used to things like Empowered, Quick Breathing, and even Shake It Off itself, where ‘a condition’ (or boon in Empowered’s case) is synonymous with ‘[all stacks of] a type of condition’.

LameFox.6349:

The reason I found the wording strange is mostly that I was used to things like Empowered, Quick Breathing, and even Shake It Off itself, where ‘a condition’ (or boon in Empowered’s case) is synonymous with ‘[all stacks of] a type of condition’.

Ohh no I got yah. That’s A-nets description issue not your reading issue. It doesn’t mean much.

I would love some type of passive condition remover. (Shrug it Off is bleh)
Other professions get one every 10 seconds. More if traited.

Pretty much I always run Lyssa and Stamina to deal with it.

The new patch did absolutely nothing to fix Warrior issues.

1. We need slowdown removal, decreasing duration does nothing as most classes can spam a lot of snares. 3s regen is a joke in a game low TTK obviously.
Infact most of us suggested that Mobile Strikes also removed snares.
Plus the fact those 10 points are much, much better spent elsewhere as there are better options.
Of course they won’t go back on this decision because it’d be admitting they’re wrong etc etc standard MMO company behavior.

2. Boon hate was decent, but again you can get the same by spending 10 points into another branch instead of going 30 disc. 25 arms, 10 tac and 20 str all give access to a similar damage bonus.

3. Signet of Might active is useless.
This was like Rampage/Kick changes, nobody is ever going to use these in any serious pvp setting.

What we need is:
- fix pathing bugs of rush/bull and hit radius/projectile speed of bolas.
- some power to mace/sword/hammer because atm Axe/GS are much better in PvP.
- HB made more useful, like remove of selfroot and last hit, lock-in-place on a melee skill in an action MMO is awful.

TheGuy.3568:

Its not that. Because i get what you are saying. You see x y z active but you see no passive. For example. You have tanky thief build. You get a trait that you remove one condition every 3 seconds in stealth and one upon entering. You also get condition removal in sword 2’s stun breaker no cd other than initiative regen. 2 of your 3 heals have a condition removal component. 1 DPS ones the other all movement impairs. I am not targeting thieves but that’s a lot of condition management if you really want to have it.

Tl;DR

Its all about the passive removal not active removal.

Aha may i enlighten you MrGuy…

So you see no active at thiefs either.
Well how is a thief supposed to get into stealth for that condition removal ?

Right, he either has to spend Utility Slots for it ( long CD 40/60 ), or must take a particual offhand. ( in combination with a finisher ! )

So, to get that “passive” condition removal you need to use a certain weaponset + initiative.

And, sword #2, while you mentioned it, is a condition removal, but it also removes you from your enemy. ( most likely ).
It also cures only one condition , and costs 5 Initiative ( thiefs has base of 12 ).

So every condi removal a thief has is a dmg loss, a big one for these “passive” abilities….

On of our heals has a condi removal, it also has 30 sec recast, and withdraw, does not cure
the DMg-Conditions on a thief.

If you really want to bring a class that has to do “nothing” to remove conditions, take a HGH-engineer, or a guardian, or even an elementalist, but seriously not a thief ….

If you really thing that, for example a “tanky” “condition-removal” thief build does not have to give up anything, then please reroll thief and try both of them for yourself.

tanky:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RV;1RwkZ0J5R-Fd0;9;49TT;02;009B34A;4LNV4;2KJG4KJG46BU

burst:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1RwV0-T5R-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-21A;43;0LNV4;2G3G3G3G35BY

Use a warhorn instead of a shield in your other set. Works wonder.
One might think, why would someone give up shield block for a Warhorn. Well it’s mostly because of vigor. Especially if you also go for the trait in tactics which converts conditions into boons, and reduces the cooldown you have perm vigor (well you AND your team), because stuff like bleeding gets converted to vigor aswell. If you are crippled, chilled and immobilized you can cleanse 4 conditions with charge alone. Did I mention that you cleanse that on yourself AND allies?
The most important thing about this is, that you will remove immobilize, as charge directly targets crippled, chilled and immobilize conditions. It cannot be covered. And therefore charge will allow you to dodge. Vigor will make sure you will have the endurance to do so.
Not to mention, that Call to Arms got changed to be a blast finisher.
And it got rid of the annoying half second aftercast.
Btw, with the trait, you have a 100% uptime on swiftness with charge (12s cooldown, 12s swiftness).

Warhorn is often overlooked, but this weapon, especially when traited, has more condion removal then 3 shouts with soldier rune + mending.

lvis.3824:

TheGuy.3568:

Its not that. Because i get what you are saying. You see x y z active but you see no passive. For example. You have tanky thief build. You get a trait that you remove one condition every 3 seconds in stealth and one upon entering. You also get condition removal in sword 2’s stun breaker no cd other than initiative regen. 2 of your 3 heals have a condition removal component. 1 DPS ones the other all movement impairs. I am not targeting thieves but that’s a lot of condition management if you really want to have it.

Tl;DR

Its all about the passive removal not active removal.

Aha may i enlighten you MrGuy…

So you see no active at thiefs either.
Well how is a thief supposed to get into stealth for that condition removal ?

Right, he either has to spend Utility Slots for it ( long CD 40/60 ), or must take a particual offhand. ( in combination with a finisher ! )

So, to get that “passive” condition removal you need to use a certain weaponset + initiative.

And, sword #2, while you mentioned it, is a condition removal, but it also removes you from your enemy. ( most likely ).
It also cures only one condition , and costs 5 Initiative ( thiefs has base of 12 ).

So every condi removal a thief has is a dmg loss, a big one for these “passive” abilities….

On of our heals has a condi removal, it also has 30 sec recast, and withdraw, does not cure
the DMg-Conditions on a thief.

If you really want to bring a class that has to do “nothing” to remove conditions, take a HGH-engineer, or a guardian, or even an elementalist, but seriously not a thief ….

If you really thing that, for example a “tanky” “condition-removal” thief build does not have to give up anything, then please reroll thief and try both of them for yourself.

tanky:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RV;1RwkZ0J5R-Fd0;9;49TT;02;009B34A;4LNV4;2KJG4KJG46BU

burst:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1RwV0-T5R-Fd0;9;4OT;0E28-21A;43;0LNV4;2G3G3G3G35BY

What exactly are you trying to inform me of?

I really hate when people over do things. Inflate numbers etc. The other thing is when people don’t read.

Now I am really going to respond to your long post. My first class is thief. If you read my sig post history etc you would see that I say that and you can see my toons name in the sig. The other thing is I play D/P your build isn’t really “tanky” btw and unsustainable for D/P tank you need the 20 in acrobatics for 2 initiative every 10 seconds. And you don’t put points into deadly art for mug because you don’t have the burst for it due to not using C n D (if you played thief longer you would know this).

Also read up on warrior. The lines we have been floating are tactics and defense. So yes you would have to give up some offense for it.

Also I hate it when thieves who haven’t been playing that long try to school thieves who have been playing much longer. Let me teach you some things. Thief tankeist build we have is P/D with apothecary/carrion gear. You spec x-x-30-20-15 or more.

Also among the thief weapon sets only 2 don’t use stealth PP and S/P that’s it DD DP PD SD all use stealth (unless your DD evades but still). But I already summarize this in my other post (you really should read the whole thing). I literally say sword 2 doesn’t matter and I was simply talking about the passive but skipped all that a decided to flame I guess.

Next time please take the time to read the entire post and realize no one here attacked thief.

I have no clue if you will read this but in the future please take the time to pick your battles. No one here has singled out thief or said anything bad about it. No one got offended except you. And in very plain language don’t be the kitten who derails threads. No one likes that person.

Tl;DR

I doubt you’ll read the entire post since you didn’t read my first post. So I highlighted the most important part. Now please leave. I will also ignore any subsequent post by you since they are not worth the effort and no one was looking to flame here.

Varonth.5830:

Use a warhorn instead of a shield in your other set. Works wonder.
One might think, why would someone give up shield block for a Warhorn. Well it’s mostly because of vigor. Especially if you also go for the trait in tactics which converts conditions into boons, and reduces the cooldown you have perm vigor (well you AND your team), because stuff like bleeding gets converted to vigor aswell. If you are crippled, chilled and immobilized you can cleanse 4 conditions with charge alone. Did I mention that you cleanse that on yourself AND allies?
The most important thing about this is, that you will remove immobilize, as charge directly targets crippled, chilled and immobilize conditions. It cannot be covered. And therefore charge will allow you to dodge. Vigor will make sure you will have the endurance to do so.
Not to mention, that Call to Arms got changed to be a blast finisher.
And it got rid of the annoying half second aftercast.
Btw, with the trait, you have a 100% uptime on swiftness with charge (12s cooldown, 12s swiftness).

Warhorn is often overlooked, but this weapon, especially when traited, has more condion removal then 3 shouts with soldier rune + mending.

Sigh I hate this because no one reads and it gets annoying and you don’t want to be rude because what you say isn’t incorrect but its not what I was talking about. Please read the post above but not the post I just made but the one he quoted. If you go past the the first paragraph I talk about how it shouldn’t be tied to a weapon set but to the class itself. Its ok to have war horn manage conditions but there should be a passive for general play not tied to a weapon set and more useful than shrug it off. It should also be adept. That pretty much summarizes it. It doesn’t need to be as good as other ones nor should it be a replacement for warhorn trait but what we do have needs to be better.

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

Simple fix, don’t let them stack. It would allow for us to use another food choice. If nothing else just split it for PvP.

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

I tried that build with dogged march, melandru set and Soup of the Day this weekend in wvw and its great, maybe even OP right now because condition builds need some time to adapt and find an effective counter.

With food, it actually is op, no doubt about it. I found myself more than once being chased by a group of 5-10 people who couldnt catch me. I got range-hit constantly but I had enough T/V/Healing to keep my hp up, their snares were ineffective and their other conditions lasted only 35% our their usual up time. I also didnt loose much dps or survivability re-speccing for it.

But I dont think that i will have the foodbuff on all the time because it will cost too much.

On-Topic: If I switch to my war horn, its just for the extra swiftness, not condition removal, i never seemed to have an issue with condition removal, so I dont think, it needs a buff.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

Simple fix, don’t let them stack. It would allow for us to use another food choice. If nothing else just split it for PvP.

The problem is that food is way too powerful.

Daecollo.9578:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

Simple fix, don’t let them stack. It would allow for us to use another food choice. If nothing else just split it for PvP.

The problem is that food is way too powerful.

Which is why the split is needed as to not screw warriors over in PvP just because it can be combed with food in WvW.

TheGuy.3568:

Tl;DR

I doubt you’ll read the entire post since you didn’t read my first post. So I highlighted the most important part. Now please leave. I will also ignore any subsequent post by you since they are not worth the effort and no one was looking to flame here.

I’ve read your post, perhaps you should read it again… you imply, to people who don’t know thief class, a very particulat image.
Which is just not true.

And if you as a warrior want to trait /& specc for condi removal you have also a lot of options.
As eg. Varonth showed you.

Also, i did not judge you and / or your play, so you should not do that either, you don’t know me or my gameplay.

I think i have way more experience on my thief then you, and 20 acrobatics is certainly not needed.
Perhaps you are a WvW fanboy, i was talking about tPvp.

And the “tanky”-setup was an example, regarding the traits + utils we thiefs have for condi removal, paired up
with as much dmg as you could get with the points left.

If you, as you stated know the thief, you should know how much dmg lies between these two specs, and if you
spec 20 in acorbatics it won’t change anything.

Taking condi-removal costs dmg, and not too less.

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

I agree that would be overkill and then some. However, I still feel a passive trait should be there at the adept level or a minor trait at the master level. It just seems to me that condition removal should not be tied to simply warhorn.

TheGuy.3568:

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

I agree that would be overkill and then some. However, I still feel a passive trait should be there at the adept level or a minor trait at the master level. It just seems to me that condition removal should not be tied to simply warhorn.

Shrug it Off (the talent) could just be made baseline at 15-points and do the same thing.

The current 5-pt and 15-pt Determined Revival and Fast Healer could easily be combined since the only one that really matters is Determined Revival (Fast Healer doesn’t even matter with NPCs and is minimally beneficial elsewhere – maybe saves 1s on reviving players).

Artaz.3819:

TheGuy.3568:

Olba.5376:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The minor traits in the tactics line should all be revamped to deal specifically with reducing condition duration.

5. Reduce duration of Bleeding by 33%
15. Reduced duration of poison by 33%
25. Immune to one blind on a 10 second cooldown.

Combine this with a bug fixed Quick Breathing perk so that if you have cripple and bleed it removes both correctly even investing just 5 points would make conditions much less of a instant loss. I came up with the blind immunity because while that effects every class negatively, warriors tend to get hit the hardest. I feel this would still keep condition builds effective against warriors, they just wouldn’t roll over them.

That will never happen, simply because then a Warrior could pop Superior Runes of Melandru and Lemongrass Poultry Soup and have -98% bleed and poison duration, effectively making them immune to those conditions.

I agree that would be overkill and then some. However, I still feel a passive trait should be there at the adept level or a minor trait at the master level. It just seems to me that condition removal should not be tied to simply warhorn.

Shrug it Off (the talent) could just be made baseline at 15-points and do the same thing.

The current 5-pt and 15-pt Determined Revival and Fast Healer could easily be combined since the only one that really matters is Determined Revival (Fast Healer doesn’t even matter with NPCs and is minimally beneficial elsewhere – maybe saves 1s on reviving players).

In GW2 1s can be like 10k damage which you don’t take, because you got revived. Thankfully warrior is heavy armor. These 400 additional armor really add up, because otherwise you would get like 11k damage instead of 10k.

I don’t think that we’re going to get much more condition managing than what we have now. At best, I could foresee tweaks to Dogged March and/or Mending, plus fixing the way Quick Breathing deals with immobilize/chill/cripple when used with Charge.

The reason behind this belief is that while we as a class do not have fancy things like passive condition removals, we can still spec around condition removal/mitigation with things like Quick Breathing, Runes of Soldier or Runes of Melandru and the Lemongrass Poultry Soup.

If fully specced for condition removals, any addition to it might end up with just about being immune to conditions. Even right now, you could easily go with something like Quick Breathing, Runes of Melandru, Lemongrass Poultry Soup, Mending, Shake It Off and Shrug It Off and watch conditions almost disappear.

So in my eyes, it still boils down to the same old thing: Everyone is using/wants to use/needs to use Axe/Shield, Axe/Mace or Greatsword.