Guild Wars 2

High damage/bursty mobile classes? Trying to think one step ahead.

Being honest here, currently nothing really counters it atm.

Warriors are so ridiculously broken… Greatest problem is that if you attack anything that isn’t a warrior and blast it down a significant bit, it needs to pop a heal and play defensively. Eles didn´t need it when they were still useful, but they needed to go water atunement, loosing a large chunk of damage. If you blast a warrior he will just blast back, and his dmg is higher then yours anyway. While blasting his signet regenerates huge chunks of his health.
Condition warriors are just more lame…. ATM i have a hard time not insulting and trashing every warrior I see, because warrior = ez mode op noobkitten is starting to become a valid equation in my head.

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

A well played Thief/Mesmer can clean a warriors clock.

I was thinking thief/mesmer as well.

A well played Engineer is also able to toast a Warrior like…toasted bread :P

google.3709:

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

So one class out of seven counters Warriors? I thought the idea with this game was you basically could play any class you wanted because every class could do most anything decently if specced that way. Not to be rude but its awful game design to have something that is basically countered by only one thing out of a bunch of things. What if I solo q and have no thieves on my team. What if I get a group together and I don’t have a thief in it because one I trust is not on. I am sol I guess. Every build/class should have multiple counters and at least one of these counters should be expected to be present in any match randomly unless you are very unlucky imo. Just being able to say well this one thing can counter X, if its actually present, does not excuse op builds.

LB/GS well-played power rangers. If you have skill, you won’t even let him touch you outside of their longbow, but the requirement is having time and place to kite.

The warrior is soo broken, if u fight against a 5 warrior team u will be in a daze state all the time. I have been in fights where i just cant use any skill, and dont tell me about the breakstuns, because i was using three of them in my utility skills.

Most of the “OP” Warrior builds that are being played right now involve cc’ing opponents in the form of stuns and knockbacks/downs, so adding a little extra stability into your build on any class can go a long way in a fight against them.

Non-Greatsword Warriors lack a whole lot of escape utilities so once you get ahead of them in a fight it’s generally over, especially if you can prevent their cc.

fresh air eles mesmers and thiefs.

And as soons as people adapt their build a little there should be more classes able to do it.

Honestly, a strong warrior meta could make more ranged builds viable, which would be a nice change.

Warriors are becoming just as broken as rangers. Let’s add super passive healing and spammable moves to this profession so we can bring it on par with others! (sarcasm).

They have many counters like mesmer, thief and engis.

A warrior is just fine, but a warrior WITH his little Asura thief friend probably one of the most deadly combo.

Thief and Mesmer built and played well can get the job done in 1v1 scenarios. Engineer is about a 50/50 as far as I can tell, as their kiting ability is pretty decent, but the lack of stability can be an issue.

At team fights extra stability goes a very long way. Hallowed Ground + SYG (and maybe trait Indomitable Courage) on your team’s Bunker can generally buy enough time to eliminate the weakest link on the opposing team. Not only does the warrior lose the stunlock, but a huge portion of his damage if you can keep lots of stability up. Posion should go a long way toward reducing the regen from ridiculous to on par with what other professions get.

Just roll a warrior. It’s the bestest.

google.3709:

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

Spamming blind does crap against a warrior with longbow and cleansing ire. Not to mention that thief can barely do enough damage to outpace warrior regen. 9/10 cases the thief will be forced to run.

If you want evidence just look at PAX finals between Car Crash and Sync. Caed playing D/P thief (the thief build with most access to blinds) got messed up everytime when he 1v1 the warrior played by Super.

Excalibur.9748:

google.3709:

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

Spamming blind does crap against a warrior with longbow and cleansing ire. Not to mention that thief can barely do enough damage to outpace warrior regen. 9/10 cases the thief will be forced to run.

If you want evidence just look at PAX finals between Car Crash and Sync. Caed playing D/P thief (the thief build with most access to blinds) got messed up everytime when he 1v1 the warrior played by Super.

Yep. I tested out the amount of dps you can do on a regular stun warrior as a d/p thief and it takes a freaking long time to bring him into critical health. In the mean time you have to play a perfect game to avoid all those stuns because being stunned is less forgiving when a warrior does it on you.

Rym.1469:

LB/GS well-played power rangers. If you have skill, you won’t even let him touch you outside of their longbow, but the requirement is having time and place to kite.

this was a joke I trust…

How could you possibly out damage a Warrior’s passive regen with longbow? Only way you’re doing it is if the Warrior’s 1200+ yards away attacking something else.

i don’ t get why engis should counter warriors

Lachanche.6859:

i don’ t get why engis should counter warriors

A good engi with high swiftness uptime can kite zerker stance and load up condi’s fast enough to out DPS the regen after.

That said, even when you do manage to kill the Warrior it takes FOREVER though, regardless of how you do it. They will be extremely solid defenders on the back point. In the case of the Long Bow, Hammer it might be a better counter to just ignore them, but sneak in and de-cap at every opportunity and gank them 2v1 when the opportunity arises. Warrior loses too much mobility going to those sets, so he can’t contribute at mid and still get back in a timely fashion (Warrior’s Sprint isn’t fast enough to stop the de-cap). In other weapon sets the Warrior is either less survivable (harder to hit burst for cleansing ire procs and less self-peel ability) or less dangerous (lacks ranged, AoE damage, more susceptible to blinding, etc.), so once you know what the warrior is running you can make the call whether to invest in the 1v1 or not.

S/F ele can be tricky if you can bait their endure pain. Really depends on their build though.

If you were to run that arcane shield is your friend, and you can make them useless when they swap to LB.

Phantasm mesmers can be nasty too, but only if they range you out.

Really it comes down to a few things for a condi build.

A. Reflect/mitigate LB attacks. If he uses his f1 too soon, punish him by loading him up with conditions and ranging him out.

B. the rest of the time 50% of your focus should be preventing him land his f1 melee skills. Save a fear for when he flying through the air for that earthshaker and he’s done for.

As for power builds.. Basically range them out and if they’re high dps you’ll win if you outplay them. Dps guards will win at close range if the warrior lets himself be face rolled, which 90% probably will.

Skill. Stunbreaks helps too. Seriously, blind, cripple, chill, kite when they are in mace shield. If they have berserker’s stance just wait. Swiftness helps. Pop their stability early. Save stunbreaks for the long stuns. Warrior really isn’t that strong because they can just be kited and they have no z-axis presence.

Mesmers imo do the best against a CC warrior. With staff, you can avoid every single 100b followup to a stun, because the cooldown on Staff2 is close to the cooldown on skullcrack. On top of that, phantasms put out steady damage that outpaces the warrior’s regen, and the phantasms do their work even while I’m running around kiting. I’d go so far as to say that, on my mesmer, I’m pretty comfortable just walking up to a warrior on a node and expecting to force him off.

I’ve found fresh air ele to be a pretty poor counter to CC warriors in a 1v1 (if the warrior is running a valk amulet, which he should). The TLDR is that the ele’s sustained damage isn’t high enough to overcome healing signet + adrenal health and, at the same time, the ele has limited survivability tools. My experience with this matchup is that, for the ele to win, he needs to land more than his full burst rotation. Hurl + earthquake, air attune bolt, lightning bolt, updraft, dragon’s tooth, ring of fire, phoenix, fire grab, back to air, arcane blast and/or wave will take the warrior down to 25%-33% hp. IF he lands it all, which requires that the warrior fail to dodge/EP/shield-stance/interrupt/etc. This rarely happens in my experience. The only times I’ve landed this full combo on a competent warrior are when the warrior gets up after updraft and tries to unload on me for a quick kill instead of dodging, but I pop arcane shield and continue bursting. The problem is that, even after landing this full combo, the warrior often regens most of his health back before I can finish him off w/ air auto and double-lightning-bolts. After 20 seconds (the time it takes for phoenix to recharge), the warrior will have passively regened almost 10k hp. After 40 seconds (the time it takes for ele’s CCs to recharge), the warrior is back to full health.

This is with me playing a zerker fresh air ele vs. mace/shield + GS warrs. I’ve tried the same matchup with an S/F zerker ele, and the results are even worse (b/c you have even fewer high-damage skills). I don’t have as much of a problem vs hammer/LB warriors (if there’s room to kite) because (1) those warriors tend to run zerkers so they’re squishier; and (2) the hammer’s long animation times makes the warrior more vulnerable to burst.

Kwll.1468:

google.3709:

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

So one class out of seven counters Warriors? I thought the idea with this game was you basically could play any class you wanted because every class could do most anything decently if specced that way. Not to be rude but its awful game design to have something that is basically countered by only one thing out of a bunch of things. What if I solo q and have no thieves on my team. What if I get a group together and I don’t have a thief in it because one I trust is not on. I am sol I guess. Every build/class should have multiple counters and at least one of these counters should be expected to be present in any match randomly unless you are very unlucky imo. Just being able to say well this one thing can counter X, if its actually present, does not excuse op builds.

Hybrid Engineer/Power Necromancer/Hybrid Thief/Burst Mesmer trash warriors.

Elementalist has a very hard time against warrior, however atm they are kind of very weak and hard to play. They are weak and since they are so hard to play many people just don’t play them.

A good s/f Ele who knows how to night stack is always a threat

I have 3.2k armor on my hammer warrior D/P thieves can still rock me becauseblind is up 90% of the time, and guess what? can’t hit what you can’t see.

Zerker stance is good against necros and cleansing ire but conditions are up faster than you can remove them, same for engies.

haven’t lost to a ranger in a while…s o yeah…

Mesmers are a personal problem

Guardians end up in a stalemate, especially healways.

S/F eles are squishy, but can burst the crap out of us within their earth attunement knockdown, and GS/Longbow warriors with frenzy can also pull surprise burst if we aren’t ready.

Kwll.1468:

google.3709:

Thief counter warriors atm, just kite berserker stance and spam blind, if the war runs the teef prob wont be able to kill them, but it’ll prob be the counter meta backpoint defender

people are saying they will be gettin toned down tho, at least stun durations so they might not be as big or harmful as the spirit ranger/necro meta .

So one class out of seven counters Warriors? I thought the idea with this game was you basically could play any class you wanted because every class could do most anything decently if specced that way. Not to be rude but its awful game design to have something that is basically countered by only one thing out of a bunch of things. What if I solo q and have no thieves on my team. What if I get a group together and I don’t have a thief in it because one I trust is not on. I am sol I guess. Every build/class should have multiple counters and at least one of these counters should be expected to be present in any match randomly unless you are very unlucky imo. Just being able to say well this one thing can counter X, if its actually present, does not excuse op builds.

sadly that’s how it has been for a while now, hard counters are being introduced to deal with troublesome classes.

S/D was added to tone down Ele, Mesmer when they were consider OP and is currently still keeping them under control

Stun lock warriors was added to heal with Spirit Rangers/Necro/Engi, as a side effect of having godly regen and 4s stuns on 7-10s cd, they can trash most builds atm.

next we should see a hard counter to both S/D thief and/or stun lock warriors.

I doubt that Warriors will dominate the next meta. Ele, Thief and Mesmer are way too slippery for them.

If they pull off the shaving strategy and don’t buff survival too much, I can see the GW2 PvP power spectrum as such.

Burst < Condi < CC < Burst

Conditions do more damage overall than Burst. Condition classes keep their damage and can stack toughness with Rabid and Shaman amulets. They extend the fight, which is catastrophic for Burst. That is what led to the summer meta.

Condi is weak to CC builds, like a Warrior-Necro/Mesmer-Thief build, because in order to get the best damage Condi classes have to give up CC defense. Corruptions, Double Kits, Spirit Rangers, etc. This is what Car Crash did and is what we’ve learned from the summer meta. Even when Paralyzation is fixed, these comps are not going to be strong vs. CC comps.

CC builds, however, don’t do well when their targets are not easy to target. Eles, Mesmer, and Thieves are the most slippery classes in the game. CC is timing oriented, and they have Z axis mobility, stealth, and immunity to counter you. This is what will happen if Necro is shaved and paralyzation runes aren’t bugged anymore.

I could be wrong, but we’ll see. I’m trying to not get too optimistic but that possibility is pretty exciting.

No profession can counter the warrior in its current form. Thus nerfing the warrior is the only way.

FirstBlood.7359:

No profession can counter the warrior in its current form. Thus nerfing the warrior is the only way.

buahaha…. Man, for a second there I almost took you seriously.

It can be countered but compared to every other class atm, warriors have the easiest time with a lot of things that other classes do not, which makes them a little OP.

1.regen
2. dps while regen
3. cc
Patching the game to take some of that down to be on par with a lot of other classes will balance them. The condi meta is ok, I am use to it specially on my thief. But CC warriors are the only ones i got to take my time with and whittle away or they will just straight up kitten F you.

Well, you can counter warrior’s damage by using Rune of Melandru, thus giving them a harder time bursting you down (they won’t be able to land full HB anymore).

Take down a warrior… well, that’s a different story.

d/p thief and staff condition mesmer.

As a warrior since wintersday, I’ve tried many, many builds.
At the moment, what I like about the warrior’s meta, is that you can find so many builds, not like ranger, thief, ele or engi, where you could mostly find THE only one OP build every fotm player was using (or is using).

But saying that warrior is the most strong class atm, or thakittendoesnt have counters is plain noob.
If you go with a strong sustain/condition build, which excells at condition removal, any, I mean it, ANY, physical bursty build will break you. Power necros, power thieves, other warriors, crit rangers, etc. If you go with the stunlock build, any build that brings stability, boon removal/conversion, CC, condition spam, etc, can beat you. Because you can only focus on stun locking one character (I know is frustrating, but is equivalent to killing someone, like any burst class can do) if you have your stability removed by a necro, he will eat you, using fear, you can’t even “cleansing ire” it.
If the build is made around sustain a heavy condition spam, then you are extremely weak against burst classes. Healing signet does not make you jebus, it only caps the minimum of conditions that can kill you. Since everyone and their mother is running condition builds right now, it is expected they cry against the warrior sustain, and since anyone ever was able to stunlock other than warrior (which sucked) is expected that they cry because they have to change their playstyle to include some stun breakers.

Counters? Power necro, well played burst thief (not Excalibur), dps guardian, OP spirit ranger. Eles do need a buff, engis do need a buff too. About mesmers, well, they rely on things similar to thieves, that depend more on the skill of the player than on the build itself.

I promise one thinf, tho, guys. Nerfing warrior wont be like nerfing rangers, mesmers or eles. Warrior is the most played class, and warriors don’t forget. Other classes were all happy fighting for the “tier A/B” places while warrior was a joke for months. It would be very bad for the game if Anet decides to nerf warriors hard. So the best course of action is to FIX it, shave it down, how they say, so stunlocks arent that hard to counter, but that’s it. The rest should be solved buffing what other classes lack (and nerfing some too).

I use power and condition damage.

I usually start the fight and they use berserker stance.. that is when I switch to my power weapon and inflict tons of vulnerability/other conditions that don’t do damage and do power damage, then I switch to conditions+power damage and kill them immediately.

This warrior died 5 seconds after zerker stance went down.

The best way to beat Warrior is to NOT be cookie cutter, use both power and conditions…

Its very easy, if you played a warrior you should have no trouble dealing with them.

Let’s see…Way back then, Eles, Mesmers, and Thieves would wreck me on my Guardian and Warrior. And then the condition meta came and Necros/Engis shut those guys down. And then CC-Burst Warrior comes along with its buddy Condi-Cleanse Guardian to make the Necros/Engis QQ.

Now what comes next? Could it be a cycle? No, that can’t happen. Especially not in a game with a variety of builds that allow players to shift the meta. I mean, I shouldn’t have to change my build to stand a chance against the guy that changed his build to counter mine. That’s just dumb. I should be able to roll with one build and stomp everyone. And if one build counters mine, that’s just OP. Nothing should ever counter whatever I run.

I would personally get out of Warrior attack range when they have Berserker stance up.

I also personally would want newbie Warriors to be punished for.. being new. By a few simple tweaks.

I play 3 builds in WvW and. have 1400hrs logged on my warrior (almost exclusively in WvW) 2 of them are the dual sword condition and the mace/gs stun lock. I have lost some fights to pretty much every other profession (these guys knew how to play their builds to counter mine). People complaining that the healing signet is OP need to spend less time crying on the forums and more time l2p. When I encounter a profession/build that totally owns me, I go looking for it on the net, I start a new character and practice playing that build in the myst until I know how it works.

Once you know that build’s strong points and weak points you can then modify you own build/playstyle to counter it. I know that is what a lot of warriors did back when we were weak, maybe that is why we seem so OP to you, cause we know how your build works and how to crush it, now it is time for you to do the same.

Divinity.8041:

High damage/bursty mobile classes? Trying to think one step ahead.

high damage mobile

counter it through cripple chill reducing it’s leap mobility as these condition reduce the distance these skills travel.

counter the damage through the appropriate defensive style. toughness is useless against conditions which are weakened by vitality spec for which you have more trouble with. for skills such as 100b a stun or some sort of interrupt works great as they take a long time to function. as you would have guessed cleanses for condition build try to not waste them though and invuln skills for dps.

keep in mind this is as a generic response as they come since you didn’t specify much.