Guild Wars 2

+50% more ?

Currently Warrior VS Necro is beatable by warrior (glass war with zerk stance + HS), although Necro after the patch feels more sustaining than before, it feels like you are fighting 1.5 Necro, you need to deal about 1.5 the damage to them than before.

Necro and Warrior share the same HP although Necro is definitely has more sustain in team fights plus the death shroud.

So that got me thinking, what if Warrior had 50% more HP ? will that make him more viable, or is it too much ?, 25% feels right, or Not at all more HP wont fix warrior.

Yeah, but Necros have no real escape options, so they really need that extra health. It’s part of their concept.

I don’t think making us more of a damage sponge through health is the way to go though, tbh. Gear can already push our health well over +50% over base, but it seems like a losing proposition. An extra 10k health just won’t go that far to solving our issues, I don’t think.

Imo, having greater ability to deliver our damage (e.g. better gap closers, ability to ignore/shed enemy mitigation, adjusted attack speeds/telegraphs, etc) and better mitigation for ourselves is what’s needed.

wurm and spec walk are better escape then anything warrior has tbh

Probably.

It depends on how much more sand a sandbag has to have in order to endure invuls, blocks, and blinds long enough to counterattack sufficiently.

Personally I think warrior HP pool is fine. I run around with zerker, even. There’s something off in the core gameplay of Warrior that I cant put my finger on, so I cannot elaborate on it just yet.

I enjoy it a hell of a lot more than thief when I am not fighting a thief.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

There’s something off in the core gameplay of Warrior that I cant put my finger on, so I cannot elaborate on it just yet.

It’s the fact, that you are forced to use two certain trait lines. There are so many traits which should be baseline, but we are not mesmers – kitten so much traits became baseline.

Azure The Heartless.3261:
There’s something off in the core gameplay of Warrior that I cant put my finger on, so I cannot elaborate on it just yet.
It’s the fact, that you are forced to use two certain trait lines. There are so many traits which should be baseline, but we are not mesmers – kitten so much traits became baseline.

Three trait lines if you are going berserker. A warrior just can’t survive without defense, or discipline. so if you want berserk er you have to have three trait lines. Defense Dicipline and Berserker. And it gets worse. Warriors HAVE to take at leats 6 of the nine traits they have access too. Warriors sprint, Defy Pain, etc. this means that the options for a warrior are not only extremely limited, but they are alo restricting to the point of uselessness.

Don’t get me wrong. I LOVE getting a 15k Killshot off on people, but im not foolish enough to think that makes warriors balanced in any way shape or form

lighter.2708:

wurm and spec walk are better escape then anything warrior has tbh

True +1

Our mobility was good before HoT.

But now everyone got passive +25% speed + their own version of Dogged March, Now almost every profession can disengage a warrior.

Honestly, I don’t think this is the way to move forward. Vitality means nothing if you can’t protect your health.

Besides, we already have a lot of it and it doesn’t seem to matter. I’d rather have a better way to replenish my health.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Probably.

It depends on how much more sand a sandbag has to have in order to endure invuls, blocks, and blinds long enough to counterattack sufficiently.

Personally I think warrior HP pool is fine. I run around with zerker, even. There’s something off in the core gameplay of Warrior that I cant put my finger on, so I cannot elaborate on it just yet.

I enjoy it a hell of a lot more than thief when I am not fighting a thief.

I think that for one you are pretty much forced to play a few traitlines. Defence is almost Always present.

Most warriors Always sacrifice a good deal of thier utility slots for either endure pain and berserker stance and one stability. This is just to not die instantly against the massive AOE. As they lack the active condi cleanses in thier traits or ways to deal with conditions. All thier dps comes from thier weapon skills solely. this in turn forces you to compensate it’s lack of active defences with hoelbrak runes, or some other rune to increase your healing.

Bassically you waste a signifcant portion on your warrior build on utilities, equipment or something else to stay alive. Which means that if you go melee, u miss like half or you attacks and for every punch you land, u practically get punched 10 times in the face.

Compare them to

Guardians that can make use of meditations, traps or shouts
Engineers that can make use of kits, elixers and gadgets and sometimes turrets
Necro’s that can use signets,wells and shouts
Mesmers using wells and manipulations skills

heck even thiefs now while bad are still doing it better then warriors but even they don’t have to kittening waist such an significant amount of thier build on survival.

Like seriously. Double endure pain? that’s ridiculous and i first saw more of those double endure pains slightly before the june 23 patch.

It also doesn’t help that aside from that all that you have to little stability for an class such as warrior with all the cc in teamfights.

Warrior doesn’t need more hp, or more toughness. I don’t even think it’s needs an damage boost per se. It just needs more defensive traits in terms of condi removal and damage migitation and stunbreakers. so that it can actually not waiste all of it’s kittening utilities on things to just stay alive. And even then the healing signet and berseker stance will not cut it against conditions. I understand that warriors are not supposed to heal like crazy unless u actively invest in doing so. Or should cleanse conditions like crazy. But it sure as hell should have enough to atleast not have one frustrating on the point on you having to run the following utilities and defence traitline to be semi viable.

I don’t even us gs anymore, cause half of my time i spend running after my opponents.

And then there is the berserker traitline. The traits such as breaking stun when you go into berserk mode, or death or alive or eternal champion is what you need more off. so that maby one day u can see bulls charge again. and actually not get kitted by everybody and thier mother except necromancer.

What I suggest for the defence tratiline is.

minor traits

dogged march.

>get rid of the regenration and increased the condi duration reduction.

>Increase chill duration decrease to 50 percent

>cripple duration decrease, it to 20 percent

>add slow and give it an duration decrease of 50 percent

>add weakness and give it an duration decrease of 33 percent

>increase imobilize duration decreas to 50 percent

Cull the weak. increase the health treshold from 25 percent to 50 percent. and increase the duration from 3 secs to 5 seconds.

medium traits.

replace armoured attack with last stand

replace sundering mace with an trait I’d like to call blind rage: When wielding a mace get 1 stack of might when blinded, reduce blind duration by 50 percent. all of your mace attacks will temporarily deal 1 stack of vulnerability and weakness for 1 sec the cd of the vulnerability stacking mace is and might is 40 secs. this would still force the warrior to choose between extra stability or more resistance to blind at the cost of one stunbreaker and stability less. this would force u to wield a not so high dps weapon but still with quite the cc and extra block on you. the extra glancing attacks would add to your defences.

Grandmaster tratiline

in place of last stand. make a trait I’d call. ‘’fight, fight and defend,’’ gain 2 seconds of protection when stunned,dazed,feared,knockback, knockdown launch or any kind of cc., this has a 10 sec cooldown.

this would prolly force a warrior to use less stunbreaks, And prolly only use berseker stance when dealing with damaging conditions. cause cc. and power. things such as blind will be less of an issue now. they would sacrifice the extra adreline gain from cleansing ire, they would sacrifice dps by having more resistance to blind. or the burst healing from rousing resilience. now warriors would actually have more of choice when it comes to dealing with conditions and stuns imo.

traits such are armoured attack is completely useless for a defence traitline and could be utilized better.

I don’t think this is the right way to go either. If you feel more hp makes the class more viable, then you should use some marauder gear. If you feel not having full zerker makes you vulnerable then the problem is sustain. If sustain is the problem then the ability to mitigate and heal damage should be the solution.

Cerby.1069:

I don’t think this is the right way to go either. If you feel more hp makes the class more viable, then you should use some marauder gear. If you feel not having full zerker makes you vulnerable then the problem is sustain. If sustain is the problem then the ability to mitigate and heal damage should be the solution.

What do you suggest then ?

Our heals sucks, Marauder could be an option for a bit tankier power warrior after this change but Zerker would be the way to go.

More HP = More sustain IMO

Necro HP plus his Death Shroud = sustain

Cygnus.6903:

Honestly, I don’t think this is the way to move forward. Vitality means nothing if you can’t protect your health.

Besides, we already have a lot of it and it doesn’t seem to matter. I’d rather have a better way to replenish my health.

I see what you’re saying but there could be some value in a simple but straight-up HP buff to warrior.

Yes HP doesn’t help a lot if you can’t “protect it” – but that’s only when your HP is on par with your opponent.
Imagine going into a fight with a stronger “elite spec” but you go in with 3 times their health – even if you miss attacks, even if they block you, dodge or whatnot you’ll still have a better chance because all their good moves and hard attacks are only going to kill you twice over – and you have 3 times the HP – so you’ll still win.

This sort of simple but effective buff could be something relevant for warrior.

Why not have a 30% HP buff, unblockable on all F1 skills and why not baseline fasthands – I bet the class would rise from garbage to pretty good really quick with these changes – and they’re not even skill balance changes( you don’t ruin other modes) or mechanics changes ( you don’t risk making the class worse).

Cerby.1069:

I don’t think this is the right way to go either. If you feel more hp makes the class more viable, then you should use some marauder gear. If you feel not having full zerker makes you vulnerable then the problem is sustain. If sustain is the problem then the ability to mitigate and heal damage should be the solution.

Not necessarily – HP is just a meter of “how long you can stay in a fight”. It goes down – when it hits 0 you stop fighting. HP going down is a timer you have to last against and that dictates how long you can stay in a fight.

Yes – you can buff its effectiveness by stopping the timer ( blocks, invulns, evades) or by healing ( adding time to your timer) but ultimately you can also start at a higher number. And just like that you’ve “fixed it”.

If it takes an opponent 10 seconds to go through my hypothetical 20k health – you could buff sustain or blocks and make me last 15 seconds on my 20k health or you could just give me 30k health and that’s that. I’ll last just as long.

Harper.4173:

Why not have a 30% HP buff, unblockable on all F1 skills and why not baseline fasthands – I bet the class would rise from garbage to pretty good really quick with these changes – and they’re not even skill balance changes( you don’t ruin other modes) or mechanics changes ( you don’t risk making the class worse).

Fast hands is the one trait which has to get baseline without any discussion. Looking at the warrior from a roamer’s point of view: it would still change nothing. You are still locked in two trait lines (+ berserker)…revamp the kitten class as a whole.

But with my proposed buff you’d be far more effective.

There are a number of reasons why the class can’t be “revamped” one of them being that its core mechanics and way it feels and plays are integral to the game.

People who love warrior do because of the way it feels and plays.
Warrior is also one of the easiest classes to pick up and play and is the introduction class to most new players.

This is why you can’t just “revamp it” – I don’t want a “revamped” class that plays nothing like warrior – I want current warrior to play the way it does but be more effective.

This means improving it – not changing it completely into something else and alienating the players that love the class now.

They could start by fixing our skill bugs – F1 from hammer not hitting at maximum range or being unable to hit on anything but a flat surface.
Bull’s charge overshooting and being so clunky it’s not even viable.

They could continue by speeding up animations perhaps? making warrior harder to counter by reducing their telegraphs – or maybe they could give us baseline stances?

There’s a lot they can do to improve the class we have now without changing it into something else completely.

Strictly talking about sPvP here. Thinking of buffs or changes isn’t even that hard anymore. Even the most ridiculous ones don’t seem like too much now:

- Fast Hands baseline (some day, some day…)
- third weapon set for active use
- partial/complete damage and/or condition resistance during berserk mode
- Unique new abilities (F2) based around the weapons you run (maybe defensive versions of adrenalin skills actually draining energy instead?)
- rework to stances – turning them into class abilities (F2, F3, F4), opening up much needed utility slots for anything else
- make all of the weapon type based traits work on all weapons types
- baseline resistance to conditions just like the high toughness and health pool to fit the image of the tough warrior
- ability to remove boons from your targets

Doesn’t seem too hard. And no, not all of them at once.

Juba.8406:

What do you suggest then ?

I already said it: If sustain is the problem then the ability to mitigate and heal damage should be the solution.

Also, Hp is not sustain in terms of gw2. Sustain is the ability to have a character play, in the middle of a battle, at the same state it was before it entered battle. So in the middle of a fight, having full hp and everything off cd, would be some very good sustain. i.e. Warrior currently has very long cd abilities, and very bad healing. It has bad sustain, and that would be the thing to look at not HP.

Being able to last a long time in a fight without doing anything is reflective of durability. Hp = durability. It’s like fighting a keep lord in wvsw. They have a big health bar and dismissable healing abilities. It’s a case of wearing it down bit by bit. What would you call it if a keep lord has alot less hp but the healing and damage mitigation abilities of a guardian? Sustain. Sustain can be thought of regeneration, it doesn’t equate entirely to survivability (you can be bursted down if toughness and hp are low enough afterall) but it is a primary component along with durability. You would play differently vs a keep lord with just durability vs a keep lord with just sustain. The sustain one you would want to use high burst moves to mow quickly down before it can heal the damage done. The durability lord you would focus on dealing the most damage over a longer period of time. Put this in a pvp setting now….it’s a case of using burst moves upfront vs a more liberal approach of wearing the enemy down bit by bit. given how burst moves have a long cooldown…failing to kill someone with high sustain with these abilities often puts you at a huge disadvantage, while the enemy remains 100% refreshed.

Juba.8406:

lighter.2708:

wurm and spec walk are better escape then anything warrior has tbh

True +1

Our mobility was good before HoT.

But now everyone got passive +25% speed + their own version of Dogged March, Now almost every profession can disengage a warrior.

Everyone has perma swiftness anyway.

Everyone besides war and necro, of course.

Increasing our base vitality as a fix is about as effective as trying to fix a leaky bath tub by adding more water in it. It’s a lazy fix and its not going to solve our lack of sustain. Check out my suggestions here, im hoping more people read it, but it seems that is going unnoticed.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Complete-remake-skills-utility-traits

TheBravery.9615:

Increasing our base vitality as a fix is about as effective as trying to fix a leaky bath tub by adding more water in it. It’s a lazy fix and its not going to solve our lack of sustain. Check out my suggestions here, im hoping more people read it, but it seems that is going unnoticed.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Complete-remake-skills-utility-traits

If you’re not getting as much response to your efforts as you’d hoped, there’s a good chance it’s for the following reasons:

1. There have been a number of similar efforts made in the last few months
2. A complete work over as you’ve done requires more effort for people responding
3. Anet’s never given these sorts of efforts, though good and laudable, much attention

So the effort starts to feel a bit futile, and a lot of people who would normally respond probably have some “been there, done that” fatigue at this point.

Nevertheless, it’s good that you put in the effort and I hope you aren’t too disappointed by the tepid response.

Harper.4173:

Cygnus.6903:

Honestly, I don’t think this is the way to move forward. Vitality means nothing if you can’t protect your health.

Besides, we already have a lot of it and it doesn’t seem to matter. I’d rather have a better way to replenish my health.

I see what you’re saying but there could be some value in a simple but straight-up HP buff to warrior.

Yes HP doesn’t help a lot if you can’t “protect it” – but that’s only when your HP is on par with your opponent.
Imagine going into a fight with a stronger “elite spec” but you go in with 3 times their health – even if you miss attacks, even if they block you, dodge or whatnot you’ll still have a better chance because all their good moves and hard attacks are only going to kill you twice over – and you have 3 times the HP – so you’ll still win.

This sort of simple but effective buff could be something relevant for warrior.

Why not have a 30% HP buff, unblockable on all F1 skills and why not baseline fasthands – I bet the class would rise from garbage to pretty good really quick with these changes – and they’re not even skill balance changes( you don’t ruin other modes) or mechanics changes ( you don’t risk making the class worse).

I get your point here. I still feel that it wouldn’t really help the innate problem warriors face; we are too simple. Every class with a more complex and variable design will beat us, simply because they will always have an option, a counter available.

Giving us more health seems like it would accomplish two things; drag on every fight a bit longer and allow for one or two more mistakes on the warrior’s behalf. Ultimately, at higher levels of skill, this will mean close to nothing.

Cerby.1069:

Juba.8406:

What do you suggest then ?

I already said it: If sustain is the problem then the ability to mitigate and heal damage should be the solution.

How ?

Give suggestion, how we fix mitigate and heal damage ?