Guild Wars 2

First this is not an OP thread. That’s not the point.

It seems that warriors are the current flavor of the month in WvW. They also seem to be using hammer as their main weapon.

So, thoughts for the community. Are hammer warriors really that good in zerg warfare or are people just bored and trying a new class?

They’re the most popular PvE class, and WvW is PvE.

Warriors aren’t the current FotM in WvW, DD eles are, since they still haven’t been nerfed. If you’re noticing more Warriors it might be because the 100b roamers switched to Hammer zergbusters after the quickness change.

Hammer warriors have been really strong in coordinated teams since WvW exists so I don’t really understand why it should be the FotM. 100b is also really good for solo roaming builds. In general it is easier for warriors to kill in WvW than it is in tPvP imo.

That’s why they are really popular in PvE and WvW.

Warriors are the most essential piece of an organized Zerg.
Ask any of the top tier WvWvW guilds.
Warriors + combo fields for heals and you’re pretty much set for the majority.
Through in a few of each other class, and you’re pretty much done.

With high base HP and able to take a truckload of damage (PVT or PPT) along with all the stuns + warhorn swiftness ability, it just makes the life of Zerging 10x easier.

I played Ele D/D for a while. Easiest spec I’ve ever played, win most of the time due to ridiculous sustain, coupled with burst a bunker shouldnt be allowed. Want proof? I’m down to 1v1 any of you on a d/d ele, just add my ID <——. 20% of the time I may not kill you, but you sure as hell wont kill me, cause when the going gets tough I can do something no other spec or class can and escape with one button. Not even thieves can do it in 1 button so fast, even shadow refuge runs the risk of being revealed if someone throws you out. Bunkering isn’t OP, other classes can do it. Its when a bunker can have the ridiculous mobility, and burst damage 8k (on Fire Grab easy, which you can combo with burning speed) without even having to target an enemy, all on 1 spec which makes them OP. That being said, ele’s aren’t a problem, its the spec which is. Show me any other spec you can play without even targeting an enemy, I’ve tested it all before.

On the topic at hand, warriors have always been popular. All the polls showed Human Male Warriors to be by far the most played character type in game. I just think its the idea of being Conan the Barbarian which gets most people excited. I think its more conceptual than anything. Warriors will be popular for a while, despite their Spvp shortcomings.

What? I see more D/D eles and thiefs than a warrior any day of the week at any given time. Hammer is a great weapon when running in a team for the CC’s and blast finisher.

Because Hammer Warriors are God Tier in WvW.

3-6 Hammer Warriors with Leg Specialist and Fear Me can CC an entire Zerg on their own. Then you add soldier runes and Healing Shouts, and your group of warriors can faceroll WvW as long as they work together and don’t do anything stupid. It’s insane.

You just inserted your foot into you mouth. " It’s obvious I made no assumption….
I also know for a fact you are in the same boat he is in.
Play a D/D ele then come run your mouth." Sounds like a pretty big assumption if you ask me. I could be a D/D ele for all you know, but you just “assumed” that I wasn’t because I have a problem with it. As an engi and can constantly best D/D eles, but I still can’t do as much as they can. As an HGH Nades engi I can deal good damage, apply conditions, and remove them while stacking might. However as a tradeoff I can be very fragile and have very few escape methods seeing as Elixir S may make me invulnerable, but I don’t move faster or heal while using it nor do I have another skill to follow it that allows me to get far out of other players attack range. This is OK, my build has both advantages and disadvantages, but as a D/D ele there are very few situations where you are at a total disadvantage, whereas most other specs have to make sacrifices in other areas to do what they want. There’s meta and counter meta, but when a class bring so much more to the table than another it’s a problem. I don’t want D/D to be made useless, but there should be some tradeoffs for all that survivability.

BurrTheKing.8571:

You just inserted your foot into you mouth. " It’s obvious I made no assumption….
I also know for a fact you are in the same boat he is in.
Play a D/D ele then come run your mouth." Sounds like a pretty big assumption if you ask me. I could be a D/D ele for all you know, but you just “assumed” that I wasn’t because I have a problem with it. As an engi and can constantly best D/D eles, but I still can’t do as much as they can. As an HGH Nades engi I can deal good damage, apply conditions, and remove them while stacking might. However as a tradeoff I can be very fragile and have very few escape methods seeing as Elixir S may make me invulnerable, but I don’t move faster or heal while using it nor do I have another skill to follow it that allows me to get far out of other players attack range. This is OK, my build has both advantages and disadvantages, but as a D/D ele there are very few situations where you are at a total disadvantage, whereas most other specs have to make sacrifices in other areas to do what they want. There’s meta and counter meta, but when a class bring so much more to the table than another it’s a problem. I don’t want D/D to be made useless, but there should be some tradeoffs for all that survivability.

Cool story and it looks like I was right. I got the win win. There are plenty of trade offs play one and see for yourself. Or better yet sit here and blindly judge a class you have no idea about and continue to flood the forums with your babble. Either way in the end I win because I know how to adapt and improve and don’t get frustrated enough to come to the forums and cry OP OP OP. Any class can beat any class. Lots of factors are involved such as “Build, Stats, movement, player awareness etc.” No decent player can argue that.

Seeing a lot more HgH Engis in wvw now.

And lol at hammer warriors and ppl defending bunker ele.

Just went into wvw the 1st five classes I encountered were bunker ele, bunker ele, bunker ele, thief and mesmer.

Ohh forgot to add Warrior’s are the least essential class in an organized zerg. The more Mesmers and Guardians with a dash of necro you have the better your zerg is.

Hammer warrior is like running a staff ele just for the aoe lightning field stun but always having to play in melee and never landing it because the animation is so slow you only hit players that have no idea how to move or dodge.

There are tons of wvw zerg vids from a hammer warrior’s perspective where the player is just running around swinging the hammer 1 skill and never actually hitting anything either I would be ashamed to post a vid like that but to each his/her own.

Horth.7609:

BurrTheKing.8571:

You just inserted your foot into you mouth. " It’s obvious I made no assumption….
I also know for a fact you are in the same boat he is in.
Play a D/D ele then come run your mouth." Sounds like a pretty big assumption if you ask me. I could be a D/D ele for all you know, but you just “assumed” that I wasn’t because I have a problem with it. As an engi and can constantly best D/D eles, but I still can’t do as much as they can. As an HGH Nades engi I can deal good damage, apply conditions, and remove them while stacking might. However as a tradeoff I can be very fragile and have very few escape methods seeing as Elixir S may make me invulnerable, but I don’t move faster or heal while using it nor do I have another skill to follow it that allows me to get far out of other players attack range. This is OK, my build has both advantages and disadvantages, but as a D/D ele there are very few situations where you are at a total disadvantage, whereas most other specs have to make sacrifices in other areas to do what they want. There’s meta and counter meta, but when a class bring so much more to the table than another it’s a problem. I don’t want D/D to be made useless, but there should be some tradeoffs for all that survivability.

Cool story and it looks like I was right. I got the win win. There are plenty of trade offs play one and see for yourself. Or better yet sit here and blindly judge a class you have no idea about and continue to flood the forums with your babble. Either way in the end I win because I know how to adapt and improve and don’t get frustrated enough to come to the forums and cry OP OP OP. Any class can beat any class. Lots of factors are involved such as “Build, Stats, movement, player awareness etc.” No decent player can argue that.

There’s so much wrong with this that I’m not even sure where to start.
1. I never said I didn’t play D/D, you assumed I don’t
2. You never said what the tradeoffs for D/D were.
3. Currently in High end PvP a warrior should not be able to beat an equally skilled Ele/Guardian/Mesmer. If we run full glass a guardian or ele can outheal or mitigate our dps. Mesmers have more escapes and the ability to go invulnerable consistently while dealing good damage.
4. You ignore any counter arguments and just claim that you won regardless of the fact you didn’t offer any counter arguments, you just repeat the same thing over and over.

spconder.2489:

Because Hammer Warriors are God Tier in WvW.

3-6 Hammer Warriors with Leg Specialist and Fear Me can CC an entire Zerg on their own. Then you add soldier runes and Healing Shouts, and your group of warriors can faceroll WvW as long as they work together and don’t do anything stupid. It’s insane.

Welcome to the meta of 4 months ago when that stuff worked. You must not fight good opponents, 3-6 hammer warriors are so easy to shut down.

PistolWhip.2697:

Its when a bunker can have the ridiculous mobility, and burst damage 8k (on Fire Grab easy, which you can combo with burning speed) without even having to target an enemy, all on 1 spec which makes them OP. That being said, ele’s aren’t a problem, its the spec which is. Show me any other spec you can play without even targeting an enemy, I’ve tested it all before.

That’s how I know you don’t play bunker ele. Quit the troll this is the warrior forums. Moving on Warrior isn’t really FOTM its the most popular class that’s about it. There really inst a spec that is OP and so incredible that warrants WvW envy.

D/D ele full 30 in water is OP. But fact is an ele can be shot down and no one plays specs to do it. BTW you can out run a DD ele using GS and sword its not really up for debate unless he drop fiery great sword he should not really be able to get away especially if you use 1 sec immobilize on cripple.

no where near the fotm. warriors are in the boat in wvw as they are in s/tpvp. if you run with one small scale its glass, if you run in the zerg doesn’t mater what your build is, toss on dat auto run and spam 1.

pot.6805:

spconder.2489:

Because Hammer Warriors are God Tier in WvW.

3-6 Hammer Warriors with Leg Specialist and Fear Me can CC an entire Zerg on their own. Then you add soldier runes and Healing Shouts, and your group of warriors can faceroll WvW as long as they work together and don’t do anything stupid. It’s insane.

Welcome to the meta of 4 months ago when that stuff worked. You must not fight good opponents, 3-6 hammer warriors are so easy to shut down.

This is somewhat true, Hammer Warriors are easy to shut down depending on what profession you are, but in my experience, stability really nulls the CC as well as stun breaks, and if you run condition removal even more so. Though Hammer Warrior still works well. I’ve 1 v 3 with my guardian against a group of warriors, and two of them were Hammers Warriors, with Axe and Shield/Dual Axe weapon swap and the other was I think Rifle and something else. Nonetheless i took all three of them and I was able to stomp the two hammer warriors since I’ve got some good and frequent stability skills,.and great sustain, paired with proper dodges.The other one escaped since he was pretty much bunker as well. Though main point is multiple hammer warriors are strong but can be shut down, when you’re speced right, and you’re smart when you’re playing..

Don’t forget after all those chase on d/d eles, them eles are able to run into a keep when getting downed. kitten need to be fixed asap. Stop defending this stupid build.

Another thread which just turned into a D/D ele discussion.

There are hundreds of threads about this topic out there so feel free to use them.

Hardly FOTM. Warriors strengths in WvW though is definitely manning arrow carts + leg specialist. You get tons of bags this way manning defensive AC on structures. Make sure to spam #2 everytime it refreshes.

Blackhat.4016:

Another thread which just turned into a D/D ele discussion.

There are hundreds of threads about this topic out there so feel free to use them.

The more it’s discussed, the more visible it is, the more likely something will be changed.

Don’t worry, they are already nerfing it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first

JonathanSharp.7094:

Very well written Symbolic.

Great write-up. Just so you guys know, we’re trying to bring down the cantrip Ele, while also being careful to let other Ele builds work. We don’t want to just take all Ele’s out of play, but we do need to bring a few things down (traits/skills) in efficacy.

Let’s hope they buff the other builds at the same time though.

Buzzcrave.6197:

This is stupid. Hammer warrior? I’m in tier 2 and I barely see a hammer warrior in a zerg. People will want more necros/mesmer/eles in their group for the combo field they can offer. Hammer warrior? I can take 3 of them with my hammer guard anyday.

Just for the sake of the topic, the most class I find atm is mesmer, thief and d/d eles. Engis gain a lot of popularity too, but it will never pass those 3 class that I mentioned.

Lol, sure you can.

But yeah, tier 2 is where I play. Most of our top commanders in TC have switched to hammer warriors and away from their previous guard/mesmer/thief mains. When commanders switch, others start to follow them.

I am specifically talking about zerg warfare here.

PistolWhip.2697:

TheGuy.3568:

PistolWhip.2697:

Its when a bunker can have the ridiculous mobility, and burst damage 8k (on Fire Grab easy, which you can combo with burning speed) without even having to target an enemy, all on 1 spec which makes them OP. That being said, ele’s aren’t a problem, its the spec which is. Show me any other spec you can play without even targeting an enemy, I’ve tested it all before.

That’s how I know you don’t play bunker ele. Quit the troll this is the warrior forums. Moving on Warrior isn’t really FOTM its the most popular class that’s about it. There really inst a spec that is OP and so incredible that warrants WvW envy.

D/D ele full 30 in water is OP. But fact is an ele can be shot down and no one plays specs to do it. BTW you can out run a DD ele using GS and sword its not really up for debate unless he drop fiery great sword he should not really be able to get away especially if you use 1 sec immobilize on cripple.

I played D/D ele spec exclusively for 3 months, in a time I played tons on. What do you mean? Ridiculous mobility, swiftness out the butt, ride the lightning, lightning flash. Damage? Burning speed crits for at least 2.4k-3.5k, fire grab can easily do 8k, because if they aren’t burning at that point, you arent doing it right. Constant easy protection. If you need more proof I’d love to 1v1 on a D/D ele.

They can either annoy you to the point where you just leave, because you’re tankier, or they get spiked down to the point they just ‘zoop’ away in 1 button. I’ve played against D/D Ele’s and I’ve mained a D/ D ele, this OP spec needs to stop being defended, its way too many benefits at once.

I play a guardian though, so I dont have trouble with them in WvW, but save my thief, every other class out there gets either killed by slow attrition dps, or squishy spikes, I.E. Fire Grab. Water is OP yes, and the rest of the ele trees pale in comparison to it, save for Arcana. Ele isn’t OP, D/D is.

Read my sig what the first one there? Because obviously you are not reading as I said 30 in water is OP, but like I said you are not reading. Full bunker will not pull that sort of DPS get your head out the clouds and inflating things to sound cool. DD isnt OP. The dps isn’t. OP the only thing that’s OP in Spvp is the healing and in general the way cantrips and condition removal traits synergise. Now honestly I don’t give a kitten how long you have been playing DD check my post history I am deep so anything you say from now on referring to DD ele I will take with a grain of salt.

Now mind you in WvW you as warrior (I assume you play this class as these are the warrior forums) should be able to drop an ele. Your sustained will beat their healing unless they are pure bunker in which case they won’t be doing must dps. Ele dps is joke as it is. You get caught up with the big hitting skills on long cool downss that any body who knows the class will just avoid. Fact is solo DD ele won’t survive a 2 on 1 vs good players or a 1 on 1 vs anyone with decent dps and knowledge of the class. Most of you whiners play it and get big heads and assume all parts of DD ele are OP.

Back to the topic Warrior still isn’t OP anywhere.

DD ele discussion should be brought to where DD eles congregate.

AlBundy.7851:

so he exaggerated you’re no better with that idiotic statement above you can outrun terrible ele’s with that setup but you will never pressure one or land any beneficial hits against even a mediocre one. Why so try hard every thread in this sub forums has some idiot defending the terrible of this game. Why are you trying to be that guy?

Why? Because kitten players should not get a pat on the back for kittening. First time I rolled my warroir out of the dust wast after getting my kitten handed to me in DD ele by one. He was very good and as I recall it was the first time in months I lost to a warrior. He was very good and I came here a few months back and researched. I learned he was lyssa and used it will. I started to run my own lyssa build and with tweaking that build became the I run almost everything on. The way I play it is the way I play my thief and every alt I have. I play everything in a way I can beat a DD ele. Now considering I have posted threads on how ele needs to be nerfed and how to beat one as is why should I stoop down and lets his trumped up bullkitten go? Why should I be the guy who doesn’t call it like it is. He trumped up his numbers to make ele sound much tougher to beat than it actually is. WTF for? What is this a drama? Cut the BS 30 points in water is OP the rest is OK DD eles dps is kittening atrocious.

Also read my OP what exactly did I defend? That warrior can beat ele in WvW. Wow that so bad to say to the baddies because they all seem to freak out when I say it.

TheGuy.3568:

Read my sig what the first one there? Because obviously you are not reading as I said 30 in water is OP, but like I said you are not reading. Full bunker will not pull that sort of DPS get your head out the clouds and inflating things to sound cool. DD isnt OP. The dps isn’t. OP the only thing that’s OP in Spvp is the healing and in general the way cantrips and condition removal traits synergise. Now honestly I don’t give a kitten how long you have been playing DD check my post history I am deep so anything you say from now on referring to DD ele I will take with a grain of salt.

Now mind you in WvW you as warrior (I assume you play this class as these are the warrior forums) should be able to drop an ele. Your sustained will beat their healing unless they are pure bunker in which case they won’t be doing must dps. Ele dps is joke as it is. You get caught up with the big hitting skills on long cool downss that any body who knows the class will just avoid. Fact is solo DD ele won’t survive a 2 on 1 vs good players or a 1 on 1 vs anyone with decent dps and knowledge of the class. Most of you whiners play it and get big heads and assume all parts of DD ele are OP.

Back to the topic Warrior still isn’t OP anywhere.

Yeah, its not like just yesterday for kicks me and my guildie took on 7 people alone and won, laughing as we ran off in disbelief at how OP this spec was. Like I said, I dare you to face me on anything as my D/D ele. Bring your warrior, thats the easiest. Their terribly predictable and obviously telegraphed moves put down terrible DPS in the long run because most decent players can dodge/kite them.

Here’s a bunker ele
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHi3cExqOzY

I dare you to try getting those numbers on a Bunker Guardian. Bring any proof, I dare you, I’am willing to face you in-game at any time, I know what I’m typing is far closer to the truth then you are, and so does Anet, that’s why they are nerfing them over the next few months.

They have too much all in one build, its accepted by a lot of D/D ele’s and people outside in the pvp/wvw spectrum. People are actively abusing it for this reason. Maybe you just need to accept its not your “Uber Skills” getting you the victories in battles as a D/D ele, but the overpowered spec. I know I did as my D/D ele, I’m not afraid to admit it, but seems you are.

Like I said, I’m going to disregard your comments now, unless they have feasible and tangible proof as to what you’re saying or you bother to face me in a few duels, testing theories and concluding because I wholeheartedly admit that if you can prove anything to me in game, I’ll admit I’m wrong openly, I have nothing to lose, its a game.

Also, I was agreeing with you that water is OP, that’s why I put “But” after it, rather than just going into my point.

Such as one would go “Its a fact.” <—-“It is a fact, but you cannot etc etc.. bla bla”.

Just to clarify. Lol, I’d love to see you beat my D/D ele on a warrior, in fact, I’m so interested in your messed logic I’m adding you right now.

Buzzcrave.6197:

This is stupid. Hammer warrior? I’m in tier 2 and I barely see a hammer warrior in a zerg. People will want more necros/mesmer/eles in their group for the combo field they can offer. Hammer warrior? I can take 3 of them with my hammer guard anyday.

Just for the sake of the topic, the most class I find atm is mesmer, thief and d/d eles. Engis gain a lot of popularity too, but it will never pass those 3 class that I mentioned.

If you’re T2 you must be from KN. Warriors are core components of every good zerg vs zerg guild – RG swears by them, for reference.

I’m not sure what bragging about killing one of the worst 1v1 classes on your guardian was supposed to accomplish other than putting the final nail in the coffin of your credibility, by the way.

I whispered TheGuy, asked for a duel politely (have screenies), he called me a troll. After a discussion where I tried to get him to give me any proof, he blocked me and refused to duel me or do anything to prove his claims. Sounds like almost every other person claiming this spec is ok. This discussion if off topic though and has gotten out of hand, and for that I apologize Style.

As per your original post, I still think its conceptual. People just like the idea of a warrior imo, and most people play this game for fun, to be what they want :P Not for in-depth hardcore game play. Warriors can have a great effect on zerg v zerg with their cc and offensive style support, but they’ve always been like that, its not a FoTM thing

Blackhat.4016:

Don’t worry, they are already nerfing it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Analysis-of-Cantrips-Eles/first

JonathanSharp.7094:

Very well written Symbolic.

Great write-up. Just so you guys know, we’re trying to bring down the cantrip Ele, while also being careful to let other Ele builds work. We don’t want to just take all Ele’s out of play, but we do need to bring a few things down (traits/skills) in efficacy.

Let’s hope they buff the other builds at the same time though.

I do hope they give ele’s at least 1 good new spec in return for a nerf, unlike what they did to warriors. My Axe/Shield build is OK but it’s hardly Meta.

style.6173:

Buzzcrave.6197:

This is stupid. Hammer warrior? I’m in tier 2 and I barely see a hammer warrior in a zerg. People will want more necros/mesmer/eles in their group for the combo field they can offer. Hammer warrior? I can take 3 of them with my hammer guard anyday.

Just for the sake of the topic, the most class I find atm is mesmer, thief and d/d eles. Engis gain a lot of popularity too, but it will never pass those 3 class that I mentioned.

Lol, sure you can.

But yeah, tier 2 is where I play. Most of our top commanders in TC have switched to hammer warriors and away from their previous guard/mesmer/thief mains. When commanders switch, others start to follow them.

I am specifically talking about zerg warfare here.

I am on BG and have played in Tier 2 and Tier 1 exclusively. You must be talking about organized zerg fighting a zerg of randoms. In real zerg warfare, it only takes 3 necros to shut down 10 hammer warriors. I’ve played Hammer warrior since launch, I think I have an idea of what they are capable of.

Edit: And the quality of the zergs in Tier 2 is nothing compared to tier 1. Tier 1 is full of super organized zergs that will laugh at your hammer warriors as your frontlines are permanently blinded and chilled while being ranged DPS’d down, making hammer warriors free rallies for the enemy zerg.

I heard about the switch on TC to hammer warriors. Its silly, as in PiNK they justify it with “Warriors are more survivable in zerg fights than guardian”. Which is a flat out lie. Warriors can be an asset but, if you have too many in a zerg, watch them get steamrolled. Arguably, guardians have better CC for zergs, even if on longer CD’s because wards don’t have a limit of AoE. Anybody without stability will get caught in a ward, that could be 20 people at once. Staff+Hammer would just annoying as hell.

A balanced Zerg with hammer warriors, guardians and others could do wonders. Though to be frank, I prefer playing a GS zerker warrior in a pug unorganized zerg fights. If you pull out at the right time and reset and return, repeating this, you wont die, and 1 Whirlwind attack through their zerg downs most of the medium-light armor people. Lol, I mostly do this for fun rather than effectiveness personally though.

PistolWhip.2697:

I heard about the switch on TC to hammer warriors. Its silly, as in PiNK they justify it with “Warriors are more survivable in zerg fights than guardian”. Which is a flat out lie. Warriors can be an asset but, if you have too many in a zerg, watch them get steamrolled. Arguably, guardians have better CC for zergs, even if on longer CD’s because wards don’t have a limit of AoE. Anybody without stability will get caught in a ward, that could be 20 people at once. Staff+Hammer would just annoying as hell.

A balanced Zerg with hammer warriors, guardians and others could do wonders. Though to be frank, I prefer playing a GS zerker warrior in a pug unorganized zerg fights. If you pull out at the right time and reset and return, repeating this, you wont die, and 1 Whirlwind attack through their zerg downs most of the medium-light armor people. Lol, I mostly do this for fun rather than effectiveness personally though.

A zerg stacked with hammer warriors is a loot bag farm fest.

That’s arguable but, I can see your point.

PistolWhip.2697:

That’s arguable but, I can see your point.

I have found it to be true. The current meta is stacking necros because it is so effective. And 3-5 necros will totally make 10-15 hammer warriors ineffective. I’ve seen it first hand over and over. The hammer warriors become loot bag piñatas for the enemy zerg at that point.

I can’t wait to see how these zergs stacked with mostly hammer warriors fare when they fight actual organized zergs and not PUG t2 zergs. They will barely be able to move when they are condition bombed and perma chilled/perma blinded

I’ve found that mesmer confusion bomb stacking is popular too, its really annoying and hurts

pot.6805:

style.6173:

Buzzcrave.6197:

This is stupid. Hammer warrior? I’m in tier 2 and I barely see a hammer warrior in a zerg. People will want more necros/mesmer/eles in their group for the combo field they can offer. Hammer warrior? I can take 3 of them with my hammer guard anyday.

Just for the sake of the topic, the most class I find atm is mesmer, thief and d/d eles. Engis gain a lot of popularity too, but it will never pass those 3 class that I mentioned.

Lol, sure you can.

But yeah, tier 2 is where I play. Most of our top commanders in TC have switched to hammer warriors and away from their previous guard/mesmer/thief mains. When commanders switch, others start to follow them.

I am specifically talking about zerg warfare here.

Edit: And the quality of the zergs in Tier 2 is nothing compared to tier 1. Tier 1 is full of super large zergs that will laugh at your hammer warriors as your frontlines are permanently blinded and chilled while being ranged DPS’d down, making hammer warriors free rallies for the enemy zerg.

FTFY. You’re on BG so your confusion is forgiven – BG actually has organized zergs that beat enemy forces with skill instead of piling numbers on. I xferred off a T1 server for just this reason.

That being said I may have missed the point of this thread, I thought we were talking about the recent surge in warrior popularity as a facet of zvz fighting, not the benefits or hindrances of stacking dozens of them. Two or three in a 20 man zerg is enough to wreak serious havoc – especially if they’re smart enough to dodge roll the blind from wells and hammer 3 immobilize the tornado ele/plague necro coming for them before doing their cc chains. Again, pretty sure RG has us all beat in the zergfighting department and they run no less than 3 hammer warriors even during gvgs.

Sannhet.8745:

pot.6805:

style.6173:

Buzzcrave.6197:

This is stupid. Hammer warrior? I’m in tier 2 and I barely see a hammer warrior in a zerg. People will want more necros/mesmer/eles in their group for the combo field they can offer. Hammer warrior? I can take 3 of them with my hammer guard anyday.

Just for the sake of the topic, the most class I find atm is mesmer, thief and d/d eles. Engis gain a lot of popularity too, but it will never pass those 3 class that I mentioned.

Lol, sure you can.

But yeah, tier 2 is where I play. Most of our top commanders in TC have switched to hammer warriors and away from their previous guard/mesmer/thief mains. When commanders switch, others start to follow them.

I am specifically talking about zerg warfare here.

Edit: And the quality of the zergs in Tier 2 is nothing compared to tier 1. Tier 1 is full of super large zergs that will laugh at your hammer warriors as your frontlines are permanently blinded and chilled while being ranged DPS’d down, making hammer warriors free rallies for the enemy zerg.

FTFY. You’re on BG so your confusion is forgiven – BG actually has organized zergs that beat enemy forces with skill instead of piling numbers on. I xferred off a T1 server for just this reason.

That being said I may have missed the point of this thread, I thought we were talking about the recent surge in warrior popularity as a facet of zvz fighting, not the benefits or hindrances of stacking dozens of them. Two or three in a 20 man zerg is enough to wreak serious havoc – especially if they’re smart enough to dodge roll the blind from wells and hammer 3 immobilize the tornado ele/plague necro coming for them before doing their cc chains. Again, pretty sure RG has us all beat in the zergfighting department and they run no less than 3 hammer warriors even during gvgs.

I’d beg to differ there is a recent surge in warrior popularity in either wvw OR spvp. Most of the warriors I know don’t play much anymore (myself included) whether they were hardcore wvwers or spvp.

I agree zergs are too large in T1. Zergs in T1 are 60-80mans, not the 20man zergs of the lower tiers. Either way, this game has devolved into two zergs clashing and spamming 1 over and over which is probably why a lot of the 20man guilds barely have any activity anymore. You either have to assimilate into the borg or run around yak slapping, BORING.

I haven’t seen anything of note from RG since the veil nerf. Do they have any recent videos?

BTW what tier did you transfer to? I’ve been thinking a transfer to a lower tier may reinvigorate my interest in this game which has all but basically died since the guild I was in on BG died after its best commander left the game a couple months ago.

Blame Anet, there is far greater rewards in a zerg in cash, xp, karma, badges, etc. Sure sitting in a structure as lookout or running small havoc teams (assuming server coverage is relatively equal) increases your chances of winning the week, but so what? Let the weekly winner gain their +4pct gathering bonus while the zerg team reaps the far greater rewards.

Are you sure BG doesn’t pile numbers? Everytime we came against them they had huge zergs comparable to Tier 1 standard when they were in Tier 2. I’ve only ever seen zergs that large twice, when i used to be on Henge of Denravi during launch, and when I fought BG…

Now, piling on superior numbers AND organisational tactics…Thats just… Eugh… Horrendous to think about.

scootshoot.6583:

Blame Anet, there is far greater rewards in a zerg in cash, xp, karma, badges, etc. Sure sitting in a structure as lookout or running small havoc teams (assuming server coverage is relatively equal) increases your chances of winning the week, but so what? Let the weekly winner gain their +4pct gathering bonus while the zerg team reaps the far greater rewards.

Exactly and I don’t see anything on the horizon in this game to fix the issues I have with WvW or warriors. Oh well, I guess I’m going through the bitter breakup phase lol

You should roll Guardian The grass is greener on this side.

pot.6805:

scootshoot.6583:

Blame Anet, there is far greater rewards in a zerg in cash, xp, karma, badges, etc. Sure sitting in a structure as lookout or running small havoc teams (assuming server coverage is relatively equal) increases your chances of winning the week, but so what? Let the weekly winner gain their +4pct gathering bonus while the zerg team reaps the far greater rewards.

Exactly and I don’t see anything on the horizon in this game to fix the issues I have with WvW or warriors. Oh well, I guess I’m going the bitter breakup phase lol

Guardians are the true plate class melee tanks in this game. Warriors, even if you go 30 full in defensive traits are very squishy in the front lines.

I switched to a condition build Longbow as my primary offense wearing full Jalis gear. Doing a lot better now. AOE range bleeds ftw, lol, lots and lots of bag potential, haha.

PistolWhip.2697:

You should roll Guardian The grass is greener on this side.

lol I do have a guardian named Like a Charr who is like level 5 heh. I used to play him in spvp when I felt like being a point defender, haven’t played him in a bit. I should dust him off and level him up.

Well, they have other cool specs and builds. I run a balanced Healing power oriented guardian with emphasis on critical chance, I like the versatility. One thing though, I’m still trying to find a way to beat mesmers Its hard on a guard.

PistolWhip.2697:

I whispered TheGuy, asked for a duel politely (have screenies), he called me a troll. After a discussion where I tried to get him to give me any proof, he blocked me and refused to duel me or do anything to prove his claims. Sounds like almost every other person claiming this spec is ok. This discussion if off topic though and has gotten out of hand, and for that I apologize Style.

As per your original post, I still think its conceptual. People just like the idea of a warrior imo, and most people play this game for fun, to be what they want :P Not for in-depth hardcore game play. Warriors can have a great effect on zerg v zerg with their cc and offensive style support, but they’ve always been like that, its not a FoTM thing

Ok I did not run here and post screens which I have also. I take great offense to being pestered in game. I don’t do it. I don’t send tells to anyone in game intruding on their gaming. If I have something to say that requires further discussion there are PMs in the forum already.

That being said I am not a child and have nothing to prove. You asked me for duel I pointed out to you that we aren’t matched up as servers this week and dueling would be pointless and if you win you would feel a need to brag if and I win I wouldn’t really give a kitten. You pester me more and tell me to come to Spvp. I tell you my build isn’t really meant for that and that we were talking about WvW.

Here’s the kicker. My main complaint to you was that you over inflated numbers for a bunker DD. When I told you where my crit damage fell to in spvp you said and I quote, “15% crit? The cap is only 62% (must have misread), Plus my ele drops from 72%” I ask you what type of bunker ele has 72% crit you respond with that you do run 0 10 0 30 30 and how much spike you get. You even say “Even PvT…FULL gear, or cleric’s as a friend of mine ran hits for 4k” I respond “4K is not 8K”.

I go on ask you what your healing power is at you say “1026” so I ask you “so your saying you runnign bunker with 72% crit damge and 1000k healing?” My typing is atrocious when kitten off I correct 1000k to" 1k*" in the next line. You go on to say “no, I change my setup from time to time” more banter ensues and I already stopped listening.*

I said you inflated bunker DD’s dps and as I expected you did. What more needed to be said. You bothered me with your bull kitten and you got blocked the same I would do to anyone bothering me in game over forum bs when I was clearly right. What do you want an apology? What worse is you come to forums like a kitten to kitten about issues I considered over. I didn’t post and there wasn’t a need to at first.

So tell me I am wrong in description of our conversation. Tell me you didn’t inflate bunker DD numbers.

Like I said before there are builds within warrior to counter DD bunker in WvW we never talked about spvp and the topic doesn’t pertain to that. Also if you insist on trolling over DD head to the ele forums this isn’t the place for that. I am not even sure you play warrior so why are you here?

Are we done now?

I’ve noticed a slight increase in hammer warriors as opposed to previously, but I think that’s a natural change from glass cannons after the frenzy nerf.

Just to add my 2 cents to what’s been said before, hammer warriors can be very effective, but against an organized zerg, there’s so much stability that is hard to do much. In addition, landing earth shaker in a laggy environment and on any terrain which isn’t flat can be near tricky, leaving you waving auto attack around, and making the best use of shouts you can. Personally, I’ve found it easier to revert back to GS or axe instead, where at least I can guarantee doing some damage.
Perhaps once the bugs are ironed out of our attacks they’ll be more viable, but I’m already leveling alts now.

TheGuy.3568:

PistolWhip.2697:

I whispered TheGuy, asked for a duel politely (have screenies), he called me a troll. After a discussion where I tried to get him to give me any proof, he blocked me and refused to duel me or do anything to prove his claims. Sounds like almost every other person claiming this spec is ok. This discussion if off topic though and has gotten out of hand, and for that I apologize Style.

As per your original post, I still think its conceptual. People just like the idea of a warrior imo, and most people play this game for fun, to be what they want :P Not for in-depth hardcore game play. Warriors can have a great effect on zerg v zerg with their cc and offensive style support, but they’ve always been like that, its not a FoTM thing

Ok I did not run here and post screens which I have also. I take great offense to being pestered in game. I don’t do it. I don’t send tells to anyone in game intruding on their gaming. If I have something to say that requires further discussion there are PMs in the forum already.

That being said I am not a child and have nothing to prove. You asked me for duel I pointed out to you that we aren’t matched up as servers this week and dueling would be pointless and if you win you would feel a need to brag if and I win I wouldn’t really give a kitten. You pester me more and tell me to come to Spvp. I tell you my build isn’t really meant for that and that we were talking about WvW.

Here’s the kicker. My main complaint to you was that you over inflated numbers for a bunker DD. When I told you where my crit damage fell to in spvp you said and I quote, “15% crit? The cap is only 62% (must have misread), Plus my ele drops from 72%” I ask you what type of bunker ele has 72% crit you respond with that you do run 0 10 0 30 30 and how much spike you get. You even say “Even PvT…FULL gear, or cleric’s as a friend of mine ran hits for 4k” I respond “4K is not 8K”.

I go on ask you what your healing power is at you say “1026” so I ask you “so your saying you runnign bunker with 72% crit damge and 1000k healing?” My typing is atrocious when kitten off I correct 1000k to" 1k*" in the next line. You go on to say “no, I change my setup from time to time” more banter ensues and I already stopped listening.*

I said you inflated bunker DD’s dps and as I expected you did. What more needed to be said. You bothered me with your bull kitten and you got blocked the same I would do to anyone bothering me in game over forum bs when I was clearly right. What do you want an apology? What worse is you come to forums like a kitten to kitten about issues I considered over. I didn’t post and there wasn’t a need to at first.

So tell me I am wrong in description of our conversation. Tell me you didn’t inflate bunker DD numbers.

Like I said before there are builds within warrior to counter DD bunker in WvW we never talked about spvp and the topic doesn’t pertain to that. Also if you insist on trolling over DD head to the ele forums this isn’t the place for that. I am not even sure you play warrior so why are you here?

Are we done now?

I’m fairly sure you’re the one who’d brag. Judging from your childish behavior to my whispers and the way you generally carry yourself. I’d merely take your loss on board and try to find someone else with a warrior build which can take out a average D/D player.

I politely asked you for a duel, you called me a troll, I have the screens to back this up, and your screens back this up too. You asked me my critical damage in WvW, I gave you two setups, accidentally forgetting to clarify I meant two different setups which I said afterwards. 1023 means its very possible to still have a high attack, due to WvW bonuses, and spread of stats.

8K is very possible with a D/D ele specced more damage oriented but still generally bunker. Fire grab is a high damage skill when they are burning, I don’t see why this is such a surprise.

I asked you once again politely to prove your claims, more out of interest then anything then when you started insulting me I felt the need to expose you. If you can’t back up your claims don’t make them. I’m done with you, you’re hereby blocked and I kindly request you don’t respond to me until you can actually feasibly prove what you say instead of calling me a troll and stop coming up with excuses for why your “awesome warrior build” can’t kill D/D ele.

Spvp has a spread of lesser stats. Condition damage is reduced, retaliation is reduced, crit damage has a cap. There are many things that effect both parties. If your warrior can’t beat a D/D ele in a controlled environment made for equal footing like spvp, then it goes to further prove how broken D/D specs are. Thanks for reading! Have fun in the future far away from me.

PistolWhip.2697:

I’m fairly sure you’re the one who’d brag. Judging from your childish behavior to my whispers and the way you generally carry yourself. I’d merely take your loss on board and try to find someone else with a warrior build which can take out a average D/D player.

I politely asked you for a duel, you called me a troll, I have the screens to back this up, and your screens back this up too. You asked me my critical damage in WvW, I gave you two setups, accidentally forgetting to clarify I meant two different setups which I said afterwards. 1023 means its very possible to still have a high attack, due to WvW bonuses, and spread of stats.

8K is very possible with a D/D ele specced more damage oriented but still generally bunker. Fire grab is a high damage skill when they are burning, I don’t see why this is such a surprise.

I asked you once again politely to prove your claims, more out of interest then anything then when you started insulting me I felt the need to expose you. If you can’t back up your claims don’t make them. I’m done with you, you’re hereby blocked and I kindly request you don’t respond to me until you can actually feasibly prove what you say instead of calling me a troll and stop coming up with excuses for why your “awesome warrior build” can’t kill D/D ele.

Spvp has a spread of lesser stats. Condition damage is reduced, retaliation is reduced, crit damage has a cap. There are many things that effect both parties. If your warrior can’t beat a D/D ele in a controlled environment made for equal footing like spvp, then it goes to further prove how broken D/D specs are. Thanks for reading! Have fun in the future far away from me.

Sigh..if you pester me while I am trying to play I will block you period. But lets simplify this. Since you seem to misunderstand. Yes, I talked down to you I felt no need to respect you. 7 months and you are the first person to pester me while I was in game over a forum post. Everyone else has the good sense to just send a pm. I said that I think duels are pointless yet you persisted. And persisted. You have the chat logs I refused and you continued to spam me. What did you expect I would do?

There is no losing or winning on forums people talk and that about. If you had just left it alone in the first place there would have been no reason to respond.

The funny thing is you call me childish yet you ran to forums to attack me personally even though I chose not to bother as it made no sense. How can I possibly respect someone who acts like that?

I don’t have to prove a thing to you. I don’t have to duel you. I don’t even have to convince you since I play both classes. The funny thing is the one really upset by all this is you. I don’t have to do a kitten thing the least of which is respect you.

8k fire grabs do not happen on Bunker builds unless you are fighting an upscaled. Bunker builds do not focus crit damage on ele. You inflated the numbers End Of Story!

Btw stop threatening you have screens I quoted the screens in my last post (you have yet to). Post them or stop mentioning them if you are trying to prove a point. Also you are under the assumption that your opinion actually matters to me. Sadly it doesn’t. Fact is you will continue this until you feel you have proved something to me (you won’t numbers are on my side). You will demand a duel (you will never ever get it. even if I was 100% sure I would win nope not happening). You end game is a fruitless forum war where the thread gets locked and there is no resolution. Do you get it I don’t actually care. I’ll post forget about it check back in 20 hours or I will never post on this topic again. Either way enjoy.

To sum it up 8k fire grabs are not the norm on bunker DD. A generic Sw-Sh/GS build with bull charge will give you enough mobility to keep up with or out run most DD ele builds (sans fGS). DD ele burst is weak, slow, and highly telegraphed any experienced player can easily avoid it. Warrior is not OP or FOTM in WvW its just a popular class. THE END.

TheGuy.3568:

PistolWhip.2697:

I’m fairly sure you’re the one who’d brag. Judging from your childish behavior to my whispers and the way you generally carry yourself. I’d merely take your loss on board and try to find someone else with a warrior build which can take out a average D/D player.

I politely asked you for a duel, you called me a troll, I have the screens to back this up, and your screens back this up too. You asked me my critical damage in WvW, I gave you two setups, accidentally forgetting to clarify I meant two different setups which I said afterwards. 1023 means its very possible to still have a high attack, due to WvW bonuses, and spread of stats.

8K is very possible with a D/D ele specced more damage oriented but still generally bunker. Fire grab is a high damage skill when they are burning, I don’t see why this is such a surprise.

I asked you once again politely to prove your claims, more out of interest then anything then when you started insulting me I felt the need to expose you. If you can’t back up your claims don’t make them. I’m done with you, you’re hereby blocked and I kindly request you don’t respond to me until you can actually feasibly prove what you say instead of calling me a troll and stop coming up with excuses for why your “awesome warrior build” can’t kill D/D ele.

Spvp has a spread of lesser stats. Condition damage is reduced, retaliation is reduced, crit damage has a cap. There are many things that effect both parties. If your warrior can’t beat a D/D ele in a controlled environment made for equal footing like spvp, then it goes to further prove how broken D/D specs are. Thanks for reading! Have fun in the future far away from me.

Sigh..if you pester me while I am trying to play I will block you period. But lets simplify this. Since you seem to misunderstand. Yes, I talked down to you I felt no need to respect you. 7 months and you are the first person to pester me while I was in game over a forum post. Everyone else has the good sense to just send a pm. I said that I think duels are pointless yet you persisted. And persisted. You have the chat logs I refused and you continued to spam me. What did you expect I would do?

There is no losing or winning on forums people talk and that about. If you had just left it alone in the first place there would have been no reason to respond.

The funny thing is you call me childish yet you ran to forums to attack me personally even though I chose not to bother as it made no sense. How can I possibly respect someone who acts like that?

I don’t have to prove a thing to you. I don’t have to duel you. I don’t even have to convince you since I play both classes. The funny thing is the one really upset by all this is you. I don’t have to do a kitten thing the least of which is respect you.

8k fire grabs do not happen on Bunker builds unless you are fighting an upscaled. Bunker builds do not focus crit damage on ele. You inflated the numbers End Of Story!

Btw stop threatening you have screens I quoted the screens in my last post (you have yet to). Post them or stop mentioning them if you are trying to prove a point. Also you are under the assumption that your opinion actually matters to me. Sadly it doesn’t. Fact is you will continue this until you feel you have proved something to me (you won’t numbers are on my side). You will demand a duel (you will never ever get it. even if I was 100% sure I would win nope not happening). You end game is a fruitless forum war where the thread gets locked and there is no resolution. Do you get it I don’t actually care. I’ll post forget about it check back in 20 hours or I will never post on this topic again. Either way enjoy.

To sum it up 8k fire grabs are not the norm on bunker DD. A generic Sw-Sh/GS build with bull charge will give you enough mobility to keep up with or out run most DD ele builds (sans fGS). DD ele burst is weak, slow, and highly telegraphed any experienced player can easily avoid it. Warrior is not OP or FOTM in WvW its just a popular class. THE END.

Wow man, chill. Lol, I just asked to duel, some people enjoy that in-game :P
You could of just said no, no need to insult me.

Well, since you can’t prove any of this in-game…Eh… I’ll just let it be Have fun, I hope you find a spec that can beat D/D ele.

I’m glad we could come to a conclusion to agree to disagree.

Hammer warriors are quite efficient in PvE and WvW, even in Spvp I dare say as I play on in every form of the game. There is no FOTM in GW2 if anything I’d say thiefs are the FTM in pvp and WvW, simply cause they are to a certain degree op. Not op as in they cannot be beaten but OP as in they are easy to handle and offer quite a lot of control over the many situations you can face in WvW.

Now hammer warriors can control the big zergs in a way many other classes benefit from, this is why they are so good at it while so bad in Spvp where the main deal is bunkering or controlling over points. A hammer warrior who knows how to surf the zerg can stun many enemies and knock them down while staying alive with endure pain or switching to a shield to escape and so on, while the enemy zerg takes damage from squishier targets from afar, also many of these skills combo, so it makes warriors a really good choice for wvw.

In spvp however battles are small scale, you are better bunkering in a point to keep the enemy from capping it than you are by killing everyone also due to the lack of chaos the warrior is easily predicted and well becomes less useful!

Back to the topic, IMO, I think it is a perception issue.

Now that warriors only fill one particular role well in WvW, you are always seeing them be the first in line and pounding people with CC. When the current WvW meta is zerg versus zerg, this is the spec that shines the largest (and probably also supports the best warrior zerg role). With that in mind, you are forgetting to see all of the backline support made up of the other 90% of the classes.

But by no mistake, stealth (Thief) is down now that culling is fixed but is still a very high class played. Engineer has always been low and continues to be low in WvW.

IMO, Necro is the current FotM if there is one. The amount of condition spread (Epidemic) and staff marks/wells everywhere indicates it. The class has all of the essential ingredients to take anyone 1v1, does very well with AoE damage and tanky as well (I rather enjoy mine). If you solo roam, DD Eles are more popular than ever (no surprise).

That all being said, if people understood the zerg ball and ANet gave free 80s, Mesmers would be like 50%+ of WvW right now. Think about it … so much utility, so much backloaded damage/condition, and they only get stronger when there is more of them together.