Guild Wars 2

Looking at every other class they have forms of prolonging their deaths by A LOT. And I’m not even talking about mesmers and thiefs here, who are the most ridiculous examples, but also guardians and elementalists are miles ahead when it comes to being able to annoy the enemy when downed.

And what do we have? A single-target knock down and a revive that will also kill us eventually. (not to mention that is bugged and you will also sometimes spawn on a waypoint and die again) And it’s also bad in itself,since almost everyone is able to kite/cc us until we are dead.

Why is our second downed skill so bad? Why single target? You gave guardians an AoE push back but you thought that an AoE knock down was too much for the balance?

To me it seems like warriors were the last to have their downed skills designed and you were out of ideas, then gave us this terribad knockdown in order to be able to brag about originality and skills not being the same between classes.

you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing

warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it

Hmmm i like vengeance quite a bit. If you get downed in a really bad spot in WvWvW, and you’re able to pop it, you can run to a safer spot to die and get a rez. If thats not an option, you can pop it and just try to lay down as much damage as possible before dying. Other classes 3rd skill which mostly revolves around deception/survival to try to res. Warrior can do this with vegeance too, but can also opt to just try to go full offense and take someone down with them.

incisorr.9502:

you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing

warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it

Please tell me which class will you kill within the 15 seconds. Apart from a ranger or a necromancer and I still have doubts about the former.

Will you kill a mesmer?
Will you kill a thief?
Will you kill a guardian?
Will you kill an elementalist?

The thief and mesmer can buy 5-7 seconds only when they are downed,let alone when they are alive.

Game changing,sure, when you play against dummies. Or against an engineer I guess. And I’m fairly certain I’ve seen an absolute zero of them so far in spvp.

I can kill everyone for 15 seconds lol. You don’t even need to kill them, just hit someones thats dying . You can also drop a person for less than 15 sec with the right build

whats ur spvp rank and wvw kills? im curious, cuz you sound inexperienced as hell. Game changes when you play against dummies but it changes when you play with pros too, they actually save you when you’re downd and when they see youre on sweet vengeance they focus on finishing someone asap.

incisorr.9502:

I can kill everyone for 15 seconds lol. You don’t even need to kill them, just hit someones thats dying . You can also drop a person for less than 15 sec with the right build

So,you are saying that you have a skill that works only when there is someone downed already and if he dies as well,when other classes have skills that work on every situation, but you are ok with it.

Your reasoning sounds solid. *hey guys,I got a skill that works well every 2nd blue moon,but I’m fine with it"

Ye,seems a legit.

Oh,and by the way,even if revenge was actually as good as you make it to be,guess what,you have to survive first to use it. And with a single target knock-down,you won’t. Like you said, if you play with skilled players,I doubt that only one of them will try to finish you off, am I right? So then what are you going to do? Apart from choose who to annoy by not allowing him to do the finishing blow.

If you say that well coordinated teams have no problems,then won’t exactly 2 members of the opposite coordinated team try to finish you off?

And here we go again with playing against dummies.

The only weakness to vengeance is the delay until you can use it. But it makes sense, if you could use it immediately it would be far too OP. Just because you don’t understand or acknowledge that it has strengths, doesn’t mean its a bad skill. The sheer fact that everyone else so far has disagreed with you must mean something (well probably not to you, since you seem very stubborn).

No point in arguing anymore though. Reroll a different class if it bothers you so much.

Recently.1043:

The only weakness to vengeance is the delay until you can use it. But it makes sense, if you could use it immediately it would be far too OP. Just because you don’t understand or acknowledge that it has strengths, doesn’t mean its a bad skill. The sheer fact that everyone else so far has disagreed with you must mean something (well probably not to you, since you seem very stubborn).

No point in arguing anymore though. Reroll a different class if it bothers you so much.

In Nazi Germany everyone agreed with Hitler’s reasoning. That means that it was correct?

See what I did there?

Vengeance is not good,but not bad either. Surely not excellent. The problem is that you will absolutely never get to use it against a team that knows what they are doing.

Please remind me how often do thiefs and mesmers use their 3d skills? Ah yeah…every single time they are downed…

There is something called being able to argument. Just because I can do it against someone who does not agree with me doesn’t mean that I am stubborn. It just means that I can reply.

boy, you just started this game or what?

Thieves can be killed before they go stealth , easily, even if they go stealth you can kill them inside it (as long as you hit where they stealthed).
Mesmers are super easy to kill, after they become invisible they have a red arrow on their head pointing towards the real mesmer and not the illusion ,they die before using their 3rd skill.

Vengeance gives you 5 seconds of invulnerability and stability, it is the reason why warrior can beat most classes 1v1. Because if you dont beat em w/ ur hp then when you get downed you can easily do 10-20% of their hp and if u down them as well its over for them. If a warrior doesnt get finished within 2 seconds after he got downed, he will use vengeance (provided that he knocks you down as well). It is the best downed skill and has saved me and even my team so many times in spvp

i still remember how once we had a 3v3 at some point in a tournament, and all our enemies were downed but so were we. Guess why we won. I used vengeance and finished 1 so my team got rallied.

incisorr.9502:

boy, you just started this game or what?

Thieves can be killed before they go stealth , easily, even if they go stealth you can kill them inside it (as long as you hit where they stealthed).
Mesmers are super easy to kill, after they become invisible they have a red arrow on their head pointing towards the real mesmer and not the illusion ,they die before using their 3rd skill.

Vengeance gives you 5 seconds of invulnerability and stability, it is the reason why warrior can beat most classes 1v1. Because if you dont beat em w/ ur hp then when you get downed you can easily do 10-20% of their hp and if u down them as well its over for them. If a warrior doesnt get finished within 2 seconds after he got downed, he will use vengeance (provided that he knocks you down as well). It is the best downed skill and has saved me and even my team so many times in spvp

i still remember how once we had a 3v3 at some point in a tournament, and all our enemies were downed but so were we. Guess why we won. I used vengeance and finished 1 so my team got rallied.

Ye,that’s if they are downed. If you use vengeance,that means they are not downed. And they have lots of cc and invisibility while they are alive, enough to outlive your vengeance. This goes for both thieves and mesmers.

Wow, vengeance was useful once and that makes it a good skill.

Ye,and I have killed a player by throwing rocks at him, obviously it’s one of the best skills in game.

Sorry,but being useful on one specific scenario does not equal being useful in general.

If the enemy team allows you to use vengeance,then obviously you don’t play against good teams. All it takes is 2 people finishing you off, not that hard now,is it?

And by the way,I love how you focus on vengeance, completely ignoring my argument over the hammer KD.

Not to mention that you keep bringing up the improved vengeance trait. OK, here’s one question for you then: Which other class has to use a trait slot in order for his downed skills to be useful?

Are you that type of guy that doesn’t want his class fixed because that way he thinks that he is a better player than others? If so,please let me know already. I’ve seen your kind oftenly in my time playing MMOs and I’ve got to understand by now that no argument goes over this type of guy’s skull.

I wish i had screen shotted this, but a few days ago i was finishing a mesmer after somehow activating my vengeance. He had activated his rogue, and the rogue dropped a smoke bomb? for 5k damage.

Bug? or something to do with vengeance? I was shocked. Never had it happen before.

Oh, regarding downed skills. Warrior skills and elementalist downed skills are the worst.

Every other class is better by far. I don’t think my hammer has once ever stopped anyone from finishing me.

Vengeance is on such a long activation timer, no one ever lets you get it off. Give us ones on par with the thief/mesmer!

I can’t believe this argument is happening so poorly. Guardians have an AoE knockdown, then people run back in and finish them anyway. Their 3rd ability is only useful in rezzing yourself when you’re downed alone, which is a situation that hardly ever matters.

If a team delays your Defeat (for spawn timer reasons, yes it happens, no not in pubs because those games are just herds of cats), as a warrior, you can pop up and delay a point cap further. You can cause more harassment. Deal more damage. It’s actually a very good ability.

If two people are stomping you, then congratulations, you were in a losing situation anyway, especially if no one is there to help keep them off of you.

If you could knock everyone on the map down with your #2, it still wouldn’t save you from being defeated, and you’d probably still complain about the #3. I don’t see anything wrong with Warrior downed abilities. If you can’t see the value in Vengeance, it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I can’t believe this argument is happening so poorly. Guardians have an AoE knockdown, then people run back in and finish them anyway. Their 3rd ability is only useful in rezzing yourself when you’re downed alone, which is a situation that hardly ever matters.

If a team delays your Defeat (for spawn timer reasons, yes it happens, no not in pubs because those games are just herds of cats), as a warrior, you can pop up and delay a point cap further. You can cause more harassment. Deal more damage. It’s actually a very good ability.

If two people are stomping you, then congratulations, you were in a losing situation anyway, especially if no one is there to help keep them off of you.

If you could knock everyone on the map down with your #2, it still wouldn’t save you from being defeated, and you’d probably still complain about the #3. I don’t see anything wrong with Warrior downed abilities. If you can’t see the value in Vengeance, it doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

Guardians have an AoE pushback and knockdown. You can see the value of a warrior standing right up,but you can’t see the value of that in a teamfight?

And you give an example of a warrior being in a 2v1 situation in order to justify what? You don’t need to be in a 2v1 situation,as soon as 2 people start finishing,you are dead and that’s it.

And no, having your team waste cc so that you manage to vengeance is not justifiable either, especially when the rest of the classes just create enough gap for their teammates to get them up completely, not just for 15 seconds.

Ye, it’s useful, that doesn’t mean that it is good enough to be able to be compared to what other classes have.

incisorr.9502:

Vengeance gives you 5 seconds of invulnerability and stability, it is the reason why warrior can beat most classes 1v1. Because if you dont beat em w/ ur hp then when you get downed you can easily do 10-20% of their hp and if u down them as well its over for them. If a warrior doesnt get finished within 2 seconds after he got downed, he will use vengeance (provided that he knocks you down as well). It is the best downed skill and has saved me and even my team so many times in spvp

that’s BS. if you go down first in 1v1 you have no chance of using vengeance. even if you delay your knockdown at last possible second (risky because if you lag you die) before the first stomp, your enemy has time to do a full second stomp. You need team support to use it.

Vengeance is a very good skill but is on a too long cd. To fix it should have 4-5 sec cd after downed, so you can always use it in 1v1 (if you use the knockdown) but still unable if you are stomped by 2 player.

Apos.5184:

Guardians have an AoE pushback and knockdown. You can see the value of a warrior standing right up,but you can’t see the value of that in a teamfight?

And you give an example of a warrior being in a 2v1 situation in order to justify what? You don’t need to be in a 2v1 situation,as soon as 2 people start finishing,you are dead and that’s it.

And no, having your team waste cc so that you manage to vengeance is not justifiable either, especially when the rest of the classes just create enough gap for their teammates to get them up completely, not just for 15 seconds.

Ye, it’s useful, that doesn’t mean that it is good enough to be able to be compared to what other classes have.

You’ve convinced yourself Warrior downed abilities are bad, so we’re done here. If I wanted to have a conversation like this, I’d speak to my wall.

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to achieve with this thread, but good luck.

Cogbyrn.7283:

You’ve convinced yourself Warrior downed abilities are bad, so we’re done here. If I wanted to have a conversation like this, I’d speak to my wall.

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to achieve with this thread, but good luck.

Ye,because obviously you are rational and haven’t convinced yourself that everything is fine,yet the only example you could give was counter-argued,thus you come up with this form of reply.

You don’t want to have a conversation? Sure,that means that you can’t argument without the use of specific scenarios that happen once every 10-15 matches on which your teammates help you use your vengeance and also help you to get that avenging kill.

I’ll make these 2 questions again:

a) How often are the downed skill of the other classes useful and serve their purpose?

b) Which other class has to use a trait slot in order for a downed skill, which you won’t use every time as well, to end up being good?

Ignorance is bliss they say. If the developers listen to you and everyone else who thinks that they are fine with gimmicky skills, then suit yourself. My purpose is to make the class that I play actually useful,if that doesn’t happen, then I’m ok with re-rolling after I get my 100% map completion. Then I’ll just laugh each time I see a warrior struggling and trying to figure out why he can’t kill people who know how to dodge a stun with their GS build.

As to thieves, when they go invisible smash auto attack. I use axe, axe and its auto attack is an aoe so if they get in front of you they will get hit out of cloak. As to downed skills, warriors are much better then elementalist. Eles have only have immobilize and by the time it starts the enemy is on you finishing you off, most of the time my ele has no chance at rallying or using mist form. Warrior can KD one guy and then a lot of the time use vengeance. If you have the quickness trait on 25% enemy health and it hasn’t proced yet then you can down them and double speed finish them within that 4 seconds.

TGSlasher.1458:

As to thieves, when they go invisible smash auto attack. I use axe, axe and its auto attack is an aoe so if they get in front of you they will get hit out of cloak. As to downed skills, warriors are much better then elementalist. Eles have only have immobilize and by the time it starts the enemy is on you finishing you off, most of the time my ele has no chance at rallying or using mist form. Warrior can KD one guy and then a lot of the time use vengeance. If you have the quickness trait on 25% enemy health and it hasn’t proced yet then you can down them and double speed finish them within that 4 seconds.

Ye,nice and rosy about the elementalists, my mistake on that part.

As for thieves, once again you do the same as the above who replied. You give a 1v1 scenario for an example. I’m not talking about duels that don’t exist in the game. A thief is easily ressurected when invisible for example. Yes, I’m aware that the thief is still there and that he does get hit, but that doesn’t make it any less useful,especially when it goes to interrupt at least 2 finishings when combined with his 2nd skill. And not only that, but if the thief teleports wisely, he will get to interrupt a 3d as well by gaining enough time to teleport again.

But please tell how you vengeance after being knocked down.

a) If it’s 2 people finishing you off,you are dead.
b) If it’s 1 person, the cooldown before vengeance is available is bigger than 2 finishing animations and the KD time. That’s if the other guy starts the first finishing within 2-3 seconds of you being down,which is a lot of time actually.

So the only way to vengeance is:
a) Be ignored, which doesn’t make the skill any more usefull, it just makes the opponents bad.
b) Have your team use quite a big amount of cc on the person finishing you off. If it’s more than 1-2 people, well, good luck once again.

If vengeance had like 3-5 seconds less cooldown, then yes, it would be usable in 1v1 situations. Right now it’s usable if you are playing against someone who doesn’t know how vurnerable warriors are when downed,which is completely irrelevant to how good the skill set is.

Either that or extend the 2nd skill to knock down the target and mini-stun everyone around him for 0.2 seconds,so that we can at least prolong the finishing animations on everyone, which is something that close to every other class is capable of doing.

I normally fight 2 thieves at a time, they are so silly :p. I agree it is difficult to get vengeance out and the 1 KD is annoy when there are multiple foes about. The reason I get it out more often is that I engage 1 thief in a fight, about 3 seconds later there is a second one downed that I didn’t even notice was in the fight to start with. After that me and the original thief biff a bit, he downs me with no hp left, disappears to heal and comes back to finish me where I proceed to KD at the last viable second usually giving me enough time to vengeance. Why? I’m a warrior, if you go down with me I will win most of the time, so they run away to heal.

Last night I was showing off my build at my friends house in sPvP. There were 5 thieves on the enemy team and me + 3 thieves and a Mesmer on mine. It was spin + fear = kitten, watch 4 thieves run off with less then half hp.

In a non thief 2v2 or 1v2 situation you usually can’t get vengeance out. But look at Ranger or Ele. Ranger 1 daze though I have notice it hit multiple people if they are stack on each other. Their 3 skill is call pet to heal you, excellent in pve, hardly useful in pvp. I normally daze then just let them kill me to res. Eles 3 excellent in pvp, used way less then warriors 3 due to not being able to keep them off you.

No, they’re just terrible unless you’re playing against stupid opponents.

The hammer is “ok”, but it’s only a slight delay, and only useful at all against 1 opponent provided there’s not a pet in the way or they’re under stability (not even going into how difficult it is to actually target anyone quickly and reliably as a downed asura…). But this would be ok if vengeance weren’t so bad.

If you’re playing pvp 1v1, there’s almost no reason somebody shouldn’t be able to finish you before you can use vengeance unless they’re just standing around. 2v1 you shouldn’t be able to use it, period. Even then if someone can’t just avoid you within vengeance’s time limit, then they’re just (to paraphrase zojja) dumb, dead, and left a dumb corpse.

In a group, you often won’t have the ability to actually use vengeance and even if you do, you probably shouldn’t because vengeance is simply too massive a gamble. This is because failing to rally during vengeance’s time limit causes you to go straight to a defeated state. In most circumstances, this creates a risk vs. reward scenario where you’re better off simply not clicking the ability. And this is even if you have sweet vengeance talented. It’s much worse without that talent. To me, that means the ability has some issues.

In group PvE, you’re MUCH better off waiting for a res. Most of the time you’re fighting against bronze or higher mobs that have too much hp to reliably kill in the time limit. You’re better off staying down and either healing or throwing rocks or the hammer. Even in the odd situation where one or more of the mobs are low enough to be killed, you’re probably not going to be providing enough extra DPS/utility that your group couldn’t just kill that enemy anyhow. Sure, you could theoretically be in a situation where the boss is almost dead with 1% health left, and everyone else is dead and you the boss doesn’t just kill you before vengeance is up and you can cast it, and you pop up and play the hero. But that scenario is so rare it just doesn’t justify the fact that 99% of the time, you’re better off not clicking that ability, if you’ve survived that long.

In WvW it also falls flat for most of the same reasons. In large group combat, either you’re surrounded by enemies and you’re not gonna live long enough to get to click that ability or you have allies near you and you’re better off waiting for a res. Even if you’re enemies are so terrible as to not finish you before you can actually use vengeance, then the situation where you popping vengeance actually allowed you to kill someone that your team wasn’t already going to kill without your help is probably few and far between.

TL:DR – the biggest failure on vengeance’s part is the fact that it means automatic defeat after the time limit expires.

On the other hand, if the end of vengeance meant you returned to a downed state, then that ability is vastly more appealing. But in its current state would probably be too powerful. But could the following changes make this balanced? :
1) During vengeance the warrior takes 50% more damage (easier to put back down)
2) If downed during vengeance (you die or timer expires), the player enters the downed state with reduced HP. Each subsequent time you enter a downed state during vengeance you get less HP upon entering the downed state. This cumulative effect resets when rallying, being rezzed, or being defeated.
3) If downed during vengeance (you die or timer expires), the amount of time before you can use vengeance again is increased. Each subsequent time you enter a downed state during vengeance increases the initial vengeance timer longer. This cumulative effect resets when rallying, being rezzed, or being defeated.

Would this be a more attractive version of vengeance that was still balanced?

I’m not sure why you think the thief one is so great… 1 skill is lower damage than warrior’s. The teleport is better than a single target knockdown, yes, but just barely. All you have to do is interrupt your finisher animation and go finish in the new location. Thief’s healthpool is low enough that you don’t even have to use a finisher, just keep attacking and they’re dead before the stealth is available.

You’re right about mesmer’s though. Theirs is awesome. about the same direct damage as anyone else but it adds confusion. their two skill is the thief’s 2 and 3 skills in one plus a free clone. and the 3 skill does significant damage.

A thief can delay a bit, but not much if you’re paying attention. A warrior can possibly take someone out, but it’s fatal to do so. A mesmer, they actually have a chance of a rally.

Apos.5184:

incisorr.9502:

you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing

warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it

Please tell me which class will you kill within the 15 seconds. Apart from a ranger or a necromancer and I still have doubts about the former.

Will you kill a mesmer?
Will you kill a thief?
Will you kill a guardian?
Will you kill an elementalist?

The thief and mesmer can buy 5-7 seconds only when they are downed,let alone when they are alive.

Game changing,sure, when you play against dummies. Or against an engineer I guess. And I’m fairly certain I’ve seen an absolute zero of them so far in spvp.

By the time they down you, you should have done AT LEAST 50% dmg to them. On a burst dps warrior spec it’s not hard to do 50%, down, and finish them within 15 seconds. It’s not really a trait meant for a tanky warrior as much as it is for a burst dmg warrior.

Also keep in mind in the time that you are downed, your skills are recharging, and people don’t use expect a warrior to get up when they are standing right next to them as they start HB’ing all over their faces (followed by a whirlwind attack is usually enough).

With some practice you can do this to pretty much any class sans mesmer (which lasts too long in the downed state). Thieves are np.

One question:

Assuming the guy has no stability, and you don’t have blind. Can you use your 2nd ability to avoid a stomp? Do I hear a yes?

Let me tell you, there is a profession in the game that cannot interrupt a stomp. Warriors are far more fortunate than some.

no you simple delay the stomp. vengeance doesn’t come up in time to avoid a 1v1 stomp. even if you delay the knockdown at the last second of the first stomp animation.

you need a bad opponent to use vengeance

In a 1v1, if you down your opponent, unless your terrible, you will always finish them regardless, doesn’t matter what class you are vs what class you are facing. Everyone that is down needs some help to stall to get back up.

Go roll your guardian since you think their aoe knockback/knockdown is so good. I have yet to see that save a guardian from getting getting finished in a 1v1 but hey, maybe you will be the first.

Apos.5184:

incisorr.9502:

you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing

warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it

Please tell me which class will you kill within the 15 seconds. Apart from a ranger or a necromancer and I still have doubts about the former.

Will you kill a mesmer?
Will you kill a thief?
Will you kill a guardian?
Will you kill an elementalist?

The thief and mesmer can buy 5-7 seconds only when they are downed,let alone when they are alive.

Game changing,sure, when you play against dummies. Or against an engineer I guess. And I’m fairly certain I’ve seen an absolute zero of them so far in spvp.

Now, let’s talk about group battles. There you have plenty of chances to get a kill if you use vengeance and fast kill someone who’s on low hp. I’ve done it lots of times.

The absolute worst downed skills in the game are the ones elementalists have

So Apos, every other class has better eh. Well, people already said it, but I’ll repeat it one more time…elementalist sucks, necro fear is a bit better imo than warrior KD, rangers are also easy to stomp, guardian is better than warrior coz it’s AOE, but still nothing stellar, engineer can be nice if you’re 1v1 and the enemy is slow starting to stomp (pull, KB, pull heh) otherwise again, nothing stellar. It’s not warrior’s that is UP, it’s some others that are OP (and on the two classes that most people already complain about). Go figure.

Recently.1043:

In a 1v1, if you down your opponent, unless your terrible, you will always finish them regardless, doesn’t matter what class you are vs what class you are facing. Everyone that is down needs some help to stall to get back up.

Go roll your guardian since you think their aoe knockback/knockdown is so good. I have yet to see that save a guardian from getting getting finished in a 1v1 but hey, maybe you will be the first.

And how often do you 1v1?

So you find it fair that a thief,mesmer,guardian,etc can keep a whole bunch of people occupied in order to not risk a revive, but warrior being unable to save himself in any possible scenario other than being ignored is ok.

And you also enjoy having to use a trait slot in order for your vengeance to stop being a chance. Right? While at the same time all the other classes use that valuable trait slots for bonuses that will help them while they are alive.

Oh,and by the way, if you vengeance and they bother attacking you again, then it’s their fault for dying. Almost every class has the ability to kite/hide from you until you die,so no, you won’t kill them if they are smart and don’t think that bashing their skills is the way to go.

Suit yourself I say. This happens in every MMO, people think that their class is fine,then 1 year later they start qq-ing about how the developers have done nothing about how bad the class is now that everyone has learned how vurnerable they are.

Keep your downed skills and your GS build then. I’ll be rerolling and laughing at warriors like you.

The reasons why the warrior’s downed skill suck has already been thoroughly explained by Redundancy.7325 better than what I could ever bother explaining.

I don’t mean to be rude, but compared to an elementalist you guys have it easy.

I hate the 3rd skill so much. I think I used it 10 times and died before I read it and realized what it does. Now I click very slowly while downed I never want to touch that middle skill again!!

I just looked it up, and Elementalists have an immobilize as their 2nd ability.

Engineers can pull people towards (which I don’t know if that disrupts the cast at all on the target it’s used on).

Rangers can daze a single target, or multiple if they stack up for no reason. Their #3 does basically nothing for them in PvP.

Necros can make one target fear for a few seconds, then promptly die. Their #3 damages and poisons enemies in a ground area.

And you guys are complaining about what, exactly? The ability to knock someone down and interrupt the stomp on a single target, which is standard? Or the ability to get back up and do substantial damage before dying again in the rare case that you get to use your #3?

I hope this thread closes soon. It reminds me of a room of babies crying because they need to work their lungs.

Ye,and all of them have twice the escape mechanics of a warrior and are ranged on top of that. Not to mention that they are equally (if not more) tanky, despite the fact that we wear heavy armor. (which is made out of tissue paper as it seems)

Sounds legit, right?

incisorr.9502:

you kidding me? warrior has vengeance, best skill ever. You can get the sweet vengeance trait and it is totally game changing

warrior downed skills are top tier unlike the class itself lol, the single target KD may be a bit weak but veng + sweet veng makes up for it

^^This^^ I love this skill. So many times I’ve gotten back up finished killing off enemies and picking allies back up. Love it!

Cogbyrn.7283:

And you guys are complaining about what, exactly? The ability to knock someone down and interrupt the stomp on a single target, which is standard? Or the ability to get back up and do substantial damage before dying again in the rare case that you get to use your #3?

Specifically it bothers me that in the rare, legitimate (as in not just because bads let you do it) case that you can actually get your #3 off, it’s often better to not click that ability at all. That just doesn’t seem right.

Redundancy.7325:

Specifically it bothers me that in the rare, legitimate (as in not just because bads let you do it) case that you can actually get your #3 off, it’s often better to not click that ability at all. That just doesn’t seem right.

If using an ability that lets you do 100% damage for 15 seconds is the lesser option, then what would a good option be in that case? What is a situation where it’s better to die immediately than continue to apply pressure/potentially win a point battle/use high-mobility to get to a safer zone for a full rez? Unless it’s clear as day that I’m going to get rallied, I always opt for Vengeance. Always.

Also, if a team is prolonging your life intentionally, you can always trigger Vengeance to be up for at least 15 seconds. This could make you more influential on the battlefield for longer if you are going to die anyway. Consider a team waiting an extra 5 seconds to stomp so you have an 18 second rez timer in sPvP instead of a 3 second timer. In 4 seconds, you can pop Vengeance, and continue to apply pressure. Get them lower for a follow-up attack, keep them from capping a point a bit longer, and you’re guaranteed a death with only a 4 second timer.

I enjoy the ability, and I’d be bummed if they changed it.

So the only use is in sPvP to game point capture mechanics? Seems sort of limited in its use…

I laughed so hard at this thread. Stability ensures death against 5 of 8 professions making things largely equal across the board. Hammer knockdown also means you must be double stomped or risk vengeance.

Vengeance is good depending on your build, if you can bang out a lot of damage in the brief period it is up, you can easily kill 1 or more people in pvp with it. And if you traited vengeance and can kill people fast, well then, more power to you. Often you were gonna die anyway, so you might as well make people burn cool downs.

Numot.3965:

I laughed so hard at this thread. Stability ensures death against 5 of 8 professions making things largely equal across the board. Hammer knockdown also means you must be double stomped or risk vengeance.

Vengeance is good depending on your build, if you can bang out a lot of damage in the brief period it is up, you can easily kill 1 or more people in pvp with it. And if you traited vengeance and can kill people fast, well then, more power to you. Often you were gonna die anyway, so you might as well make people burn cool downs.

Because everyone will allow you to bash their face when you vengeance,right?

Sorry,playing against noobs does not equal having a good skill set, I’ve told that numerous times already.

Name a class that can’t outsustain,kite or do both against a warrior. Apart from engineers because I haven’t played much with or against them to be sure about them.

And no, saying “hurr durr,I tear them apart with my GS build while in vengeance” doesn’t count either. Everyone with a brain will render your GS build useless,be it in vengeance or not.

Most of the other classes have enough utility to reach a revive. Warrior will either die, or die a little later.

How can Vengeance not be one of the most annoying downed skills in the game (by your standards)? It allows you to stand back up and use all of your skills to continue fighting and even without the proper trait you have a chance of rally. On top of that I believe that Elementalist have it a lot harder as their only skill that keeps them from being executed is on a large CD and not available when dropped.

The first ability (rock throw) should just explode heads on contact and perform insta-kills. That’s the only way the Warrior’s downed abilities will be balanced.

Corax.7381:

The first ability (rock throw) should just explode heads on contact and perform insta-kills. That’s the only way the Warrior’s downed abilities will be balanced.

What took you so long to give that reply? I was starting to wonder how is it possible for this community to lack your type of guy. You should have been 3d-5th under normal circumstances. Caught a cold or what?

One word: “Vengeance”.

stopped reading at “elementalist”

The downed skill def is not weak. The other classes you mention like thief and mesmer are nothing more then annoyances. Very very rarely do they do anything more then interupt me, I run back, and down them right over again. The warrior one you actually can get back up and atleast do some damage in the meantime.

The only class I really love as far as downed abilities goes is Ranger like which has been stated. Ranger has been my primary sPvP. The ability to call my pet over, use their abilities such as a stun or knock back, AND heal myself with my pet being an ally healing me more is great. Not to mention, I havent tested this yet, I THINK the cooldown for a pet ability is per pet not on a timer. So I could use my spiders stun, call out my wolf then use his howl. Honestly…I havent had to really need to do that too so I dont know if it works like that. I usually just immediately call out my wolf because my spider may be to far, and with the wolf howl and occasional knockback attack it works best for me. Either way its great though. As far as being able to reasonably reliably get me back up its by far way better then mesmer/theif or anything like that. They are just mere distractions at best. I start to down them knowing exactly that they are going to clone, or shift, or daze me or whatever, I immediately just run back and do it again lol.

For perspective I typically actually die maybe 2-3 times in a normal match with 10-15 kills with my ranger. I die a bit more then that, maybe 5, so being able to consistantly rez myself 50% of the time is pretty nice in my book.

They are not annoyances, they buy time, and doing that is much more valuable than getting back up for 15 seconds.

Ye,in 1v1 you will kill a thief, that’s not new, most likely a mesmer as well (although the mesmer actually has a chance to get back up as well if auto targetting finishes off an illusion), but not in a team fight.

In a teamfight, they will buy enough time and get a good enough position for their allies to ressurect them. Not for 15 seconds, but normally and permanently.

And this is unaffected by the number of people. Give a thief 10 people trying to finish him off and he will still be able to buy some time for his team. A warrior can’t hold one, leave alone two.

And no,you can’t vengeance when someone is starting to finish you off immediately. The vengeance cooldown is bigger than 2 finishing animations AND the hammer knock-down,so whoever says that they get back up and finish off duels are either bluntantly lying or were playing against players who don’t know crap about what to do against a warrior and delayed their finishing.

I get it. This is a troll thread.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I get it. This is a troll thread.

Move along, nothing to see here.

OK, see you in one year when you will be crying about the status of warriors then.

Enjoy the class, remember, you chose it to stay weak, have fun when everyone starts realizing and exposing these weaknesses.