Guild Wars 2

The Toughness Tree has Retaliation and Balanced Stance and NO healing abilities, none, nadda, zip.

The Vitality Tree has “Shout Heals, Banner Heals, Perma Regeneration…”

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

+30% Boon Duration would be much better with the Toughness Tree, since it has retaliation and balanced stance (Stability.).

Sure, Banner has Regeneration… but its up forever regardless of your boon duration, you could have 0% Boon Duration and still have permanent regeneration with banner healing, +300 healing power would benefit it SO much more, an extra 37 healing PER tick.

For the Warhorn, it “converts” things into boons, so when you convert 10 seconds of bleeding, it simply changes it to 10 seconds of a boon, its not effected by boon duration at all.

With SoR+Warhorn Trait, you have Perma Swiftness anyways, Regardless of Boon Duration.

Don’t you DARE touch my Sonic Boon.

Auesis.7301:

Don’t you dare touch my Boon Duration-enhanced shouts.

“For Great Justice!” is up forever, regardless of what you have, Healing Power would help Healing Shouts a lot more.

Vigorous Shouts would heal for SO much more with healing power.

Auesis.7301:

Don’t you DARE touch my Sonic Boon.

Healing Power would help the build more-so then boon duration would.

Leave the boon duration be!

But seriously.
I like the secondaries of the tactics tree
and find them fitting, but wouldn´t
mind, if healing power and vitality
would be swapped.

As I see it tactics almost screams boon duration,
as that is, what it does, giving yourself and your group a
tactical advantage by using shouts, banners warhorns
and what else there may be. Lots of boons + longer boon duration =
great.

The defense tree on the other hand is more about enduring pain,
not using boons to buff themselves and their group, even though
there are boons in that trait line and its related skills.
More healing power fits this trait line well, as would more vitality,

I would guess giving one trait line more defense AND more vitality
would be way too strong, while on the other hand warriors who want to support their
group might find themselves with not enough defensive attributes.

I am not saying that tactics is nothing but a support trait line, though,
it´s just one of it´s aspects.

Arkanis Drako.5169:

Leave the boon duration be!

But seriously.
I like the secondaries of the tactics tree
and find them fitting, but wouldn´t
mind, if healing power and vitality
would be swapped.

As I see it tactics almost screams boon duration,
as that is, what it does, giving yourself and your group a
tactical advantage by using shouts, banners warhorns
and what else there may be. Lots of boons + longer boon duration =
great.

The defense tree on the other hand is more about enduring pain,
not using boons to buff themselves and their group, even though
there are boons in that trait line and its related skills.
More healing power fits this trait line well, as would more vitality,

I would guess giving one trait line more defense AND more vitality
would be way too strong, while on the other hand warriors who want to support their
group might find themselves with not enough defensive attributes.

I am not saying that tactics is nothing but a support trait line, though,
it´s just one of it´s aspects.

The Toughness tree has no “HEALING” … why does it have Healing Power at all?!

The Boons for Vitality Tree don’t need boon duration because they last pretty much forever, or arn’t effected.

I agree with what you said though, but there isn’t a tree which has two secondary stats in it yet.

I guess the toughness tree does have a bit of healing from adrenal health. However I believe putting either toughness + vitality or toughness + boon duration would be too overpowered, so they decided to split them into two trees.

Healing also affects healing skills (slot number 6).
True, you get more healing for your healing power,
if you combine it with something else, like healing shouts,
but that does not make healing power useless.

And the Vitality Tree benefits very much from the boon duration.
“Empowered” for example increases the damage you inflict
for every boon you have. I might be mistaken about this one, but
I think the longer duration applies also for boons you receive from someone else.

Apart from this, why wouldn´t longer boon duration be good for the tactics tree?
My “for great justice” does not last forever.
There is more to consider, than just the minor traits.

Daecollo.9578:

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

That’s precisely the reason why it isn’t in the Tactics tree. It would make warrior support builds more modular and free-form than Anet apparently wanted them to be. The trait trees are supposed to have interdisciplinary synergy with each other, and we’re supposed to have to make hard choices to get everything we want.

typographie.1742:

Daecollo.9578:

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

That’s precisely the reason why it isn’t in the Tactics tree. It would make warrior support builds more modular and free-form than Anet apparently wanted them to be. The trait trees are supposed to have interdisciplinary synergy with each other, and we’re supposed to have to make hard choices to get everything we want.

then how come thieves and ele can have precion and critical dmg in a single tree? looking at ele, fire attune does direct dmg and burning, trait tree adds power and condition duration; earth attune gives protection and lots of bleeding, trait tree adds toughness and condition dmg; water attune gives healing, trait tree adds HP and healing power.

definition of warrior is Doing Dmg with a steady body(forgot the exact words), while the stance tree doesnt increase boon duration for longer stance??

WakkaJabba.3910:

typographie.1742:

Daecollo.9578:

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

That’s precisely the reason why it isn’t in the Tactics tree. It would make warrior support builds more modular and free-form than Anet apparently wanted them to be. The trait trees are supposed to have interdisciplinary synergy with each other, and we’re supposed to have to make hard choices to get everything we want.

then how come thieves and ele can have precion and critical dmg in a single tree? looking at ele, fire attune does direct dmg and burning, trait tree adds power and condition duration; earth attune gives protection and lots of bleeding, trait tree adds toughness and condition dmg; water attune gives healing, trait tree adds HP and healing power.

definition of warrior is Doing Dmg with a steady body(forgot the exact words), while the stance tree doesnt increase boon duration for longer stance??

Exactly.

The Warrior Vitality tree has healing abilities, a lot of them, and none of them need boon duration to matter.

However, if you added + Healing Power to it, it would become one of the best trees we have, due to the simple fact that it would add a lot of support, Shouts would heal more, the Banners would heal more, and it would build a lot more variety for support-type warriors.

Now, lets add %Boon Duration to the Toughness Tree, now you have a meh tree turn into an awesome Juggernaut Style tanking tree, with the increased Stability (which warriors should have anyways.) and the increases Retaliation with spiked armor, we can get our Retaliation so high we can almost finally build that tanking build a lot of us wish.

We could finally make a spec for stances, something that they probably should have.

WakkaJabba.3910:

typographie.1742:

Daecollo.9578:

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

That’s precisely the reason why it isn’t in the Tactics tree. It would make warrior support builds more modular and free-form than Anet apparently wanted them to be. The trait trees are supposed to have interdisciplinary synergy with each other, and we’re supposed to have to make hard choices to get everything we want.

then how come thieves and ele can have precion and critical dmg in a single tree? looking at ele, fire attune does direct dmg and burning, trait tree adds power and condition duration; earth attune gives protection and lots of bleeding, trait tree adds toughness and condition dmg; water attune gives healing, trait tree adds HP and healing power.

definition of warrior is Doing Dmg with a steady body(forgot the exact words), while the stance tree doesnt increase boon duration for longer stance??

The traits tree benefits from healing power and boon duration, and pretty much nothing else. If you wanted to be a shout healing warrior, if you could put 30 points into Tactics and get healing power AND boon duration, that would be it. You’d be left with 40 points to put into pure damage, since there’d be nothing else that seriously benefits shouts or healing.

A thief needing precision and condition damage still wants (or at least benefits) from other things… condition duration or critical damage, for instance. There’s other traits and attributes that continue to enhance their damage outside of Critical Strikes.

But healing power in Tactics would make the Tactics tree a self-contained unit benefiting from almost no other traits. A warrior spending only 30 points could be just as good at being a shout warrior as one spending all 70.

typographie.1742:

WakkaJabba.3910:

typographie.1742:

Daecollo.9578:

+300 Healing Power would benefit the Vitality Tree a lot more then it would the Toughness Tree, the Toughness Tree does not even have healing abilities.

That’s precisely the reason why it isn’t in the Tactics tree. It would make warrior support builds more modular and free-form than Anet apparently wanted them to be. The trait trees are supposed to have interdisciplinary synergy with each other, and we’re supposed to have to make hard choices to get everything we want.

then how come thieves and ele can have precion and critical dmg in a single tree? looking at ele, fire attune does direct dmg and burning, trait tree adds power and condition duration; earth attune gives protection and lots of bleeding, trait tree adds toughness and condition dmg; water attune gives healing, trait tree adds HP and healing power.

definition of warrior is Doing Dmg with a steady body(forgot the exact words), while the stance tree doesnt increase boon duration for longer stance??

The traits tree benefits from healing power and boon duration, and pretty much nothing else. If you wanted to be a shout healing warrior, if you could put 30 points into Tactics and get healing power AND boon duration, that would be it. You’d be left with 40 points to put into pure damage, since there’d be nothing else that seriously benefits shouts or healing.

A thief needing precision and condition damage still wants (or at least benefits) from other things… condition duration or critical damage, for instance. There’s other traits and attributes that continue to enhance their damage outside of Critical Strikes.

But healing power in Tactics would make the Tactics tree a self-contained unit benefiting from almost no other traits. A warrior spending only 30 points could be just as good at being a shout warrior as one spending all 70.

Sorry, but there is no class or player that focuses on both power/condition damage, you either go one way or the other.

And thats the point, it would open up more builds and play-styles instead of restricting them.

Playing a Thief, there is either “Full Condition” P/D or D/D Thief, or “Full Power Damage Sword or Backstab Thief.”, focusing on both is completely pointless and its something no thief would do.

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

But, that benefits yourself… not your allies, plus you can also just simply have someone pick up your banner.

I thought the Vitality tree was for support.

The Battle Standard is mostly for rezzing your comrades, the buffs are addons.

To make ur self a giant piece of BBQ in front of all the other classes and heal for nothing HEHE.

Hellmarchx.8620:

To make ur self a giant piece of BBQ in front of all the other classes and heal for nothing HEHE.

Increasing your heals with healing power? WHAT A SILLY IDEA!

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

But, that benefits yourself… not your allies, plus you can also just simply have someone pick up your banner.

I thought the Vitality tree was for support.

The Battle Standard is mostly for rezzing your comrades, the buffs are addons.

I believe all allies receiving your boon are affected by your boon duration increase

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon_Duration

it said “increase the duration of all boons applied by the character by a fixed percentage”, so the boon duration is clearly intended to be a support attribute rather than a self buff tool.

Did you notice the “giver” gear that give boon duration? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying boon duration is a support attribute.

So placing the boon duration on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

But, that benefits yourself… not your allies, plus you can also just simply have someone pick up your banner.

I thought the Vitality tree was for support.

The Battle Standard is mostly for rezzing your comrades, the buffs are addons.

I believe all allies receiving your boon are affected by your boon duration increase

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon_Duration

it said “increase the duration of all boons applied by the character by a fixed percentage”, so the boon duration is clearly intended to be a support attribute rather than a self buff tool.

Did you notice the “giver” gear that give boon duration? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying boon duration is a support attribute.

So placing the boon duration on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Did you notice the “shaman” gear that gives healing power? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying healing power is a support attribute.

So placing the healing power on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

But, that benefits yourself… not your allies, plus you can also just simply have someone pick up your banner.

I thought the Vitality tree was for support.

The Battle Standard is mostly for rezzing your comrades, the buffs are addons.

I believe all allies receiving your boon are affected by your boon duration increase

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon_Duration

it said “increase the duration of all boons applied by the character by a fixed percentage”, so the boon duration is clearly intended to be a support attribute rather than a self buff tool.

Did you notice the “giver” gear that give boon duration? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying boon duration is a support attribute.

So placing the boon duration on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Did you notice the “shaman” gear that gives healing power? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying healing power is a support attribute.

So placing the healing power on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Yes, i would love to have both healing power and boon duration on tactics line, maybe just swap vit with healing power, please……

But giving tou and vit in same line is quite OVERPOWER, therefore Anet make such arrangement, so i still think it is totally make sense.

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

Try to see the intention of Anet, Tactics tree is mainly focused for team buffing, therefore shout and banner trait are all on this line. Shout heal or regen banner is just a tiny add on to the banner and shout utility. Even full investment into tactics doesn’t means a player will take shout heal or regen banner but boon duration will greatly increase the usefulness of shout and banner build. On the other hand, healing power will increase a warrior self heal ability thats greatly increase a toughness based warrior survivability a lot. Therefore I don’t agree with OP.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
“Grants 3 seconds of regeneration, reapplying every 3 seconds.”

Uhh, How will boon duration help the banner healing, you get regeneration every second… You know even without boon duration, it still lasts forever, 40 extra healing per second would be so much better. (FOR Your group! AND you…)

The only shout that has a boon attached to it is “For Great Justice!” and it lasts a long time, even without boon duration… Instead you could have all three shouts heal for a lot more, making it a lot better, so I don’t see your point and I don’t see why you would say such things, because it simply does not make any sense.

So I can’t fathom or agree with you, the math is simply against you.

+Healing Power helps your group a lot more then it could ever help yourself, Toughness isn’t about healing, its about Preventing Damage, that is why it has “Stances” and “Endure Pain” and Stability and Retaliation.

So, by your own words, Vitality Tree should be about your group, +healing power would benefit it a lot moreso then boon duration ever will.

You don’t know you can keep the boon even if you run outside of the banner effect area? The banner give boon every sec, yes, but u won’t receive the boon if you are out side of the area, correct? the boon duration allow you to keep the boons for a couple sec outside of the effective area and so you can move out do something and move back for a short period without losing it. Battle standard is not all about stability, it gave 10 sec of might buff, with 30 tactics it is 13 sec of might buff, that means you got 13 sec to do your fight outside of the effective area.

To me, it is still making perfect sense.

But, that benefits yourself… not your allies, plus you can also just simply have someone pick up your banner.

I thought the Vitality tree was for support.

The Battle Standard is mostly for rezzing your comrades, the buffs are addons.

I believe all allies receiving your boon are affected by your boon duration increase

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon_Duration

it said “increase the duration of all boons applied by the character by a fixed percentage”, so the boon duration is clearly intended to be a support attribute rather than a self buff tool.

Did you notice the “giver” gear that give boon duration? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying boon duration is a support attribute.

So placing the boon duration on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Did you notice the “shaman” gear that gives healing power? it is not a great gear for a player self buffing purpose but indeed, it is a support gear.

Therefore i am sure Anet is classifying healing power is a support attribute.

So placing the healing power on a support trait line is perfectly make sense to me.

Yes, i would love to have both healing power and boon duration on tactics line, maybe just swap vit with healing power, please……

But giving tou and vit in same line is quite OVERPOWER, therefore Anet make such arrangement, so i still think it is totally make sense.

I agree, but boon duration helps yourself a lot more then it would help your allies, whilst healing power would greatly help your allies due to the fact you would be healing them a lot moreso then you would before, with your shouts and banners.

To Daecollo

Lets look at how Healing power works:
All self heal skill -base effect +100% of healing power
Shout heal skill -base effect +80% of healing power

Lets look at boon duration, noted that it is duration you apply

1) When it comes to Defense, since warrior cannot access to protection boon, so boon duration is not more helpful on survival than a good self heal can provide.

2) On the other hand, for tactics line, warhorn / shout / banner gain more benefit from boon duration increase.

3) Shout heal is a very powerful skill when geared with full healing power. If healing power swapped with boon duration in tactics line, a shout heal warrior can gain full healing power in cleric gear and traited with full strength line. This will result as overpowered for high power, toughness and healing power, and high self burst heal ability….

For now, a shout heal warrior wants full healing power they got to sacrifice strength and go for full defense…

Therefore, boon duration on tactics line is 100% make sense.

Crossaber.8934:

To Daecollo

Lets look at how Healing power works:
All self heal skill -base effect +100% of healing power
Shout heal skill -base effect +80% of healing power

Lets look at boon duration, noted that it is duration you apply

1) When it comes to Defense, since warrior cannot access to protection boon, so boon duration is not more helpful on survival than a good self heal can provide.

2) On the other hand, for tactics line, warhorn / shout / banner gain more benefit from boon duration increase.

3) Shout heal is a very powerful skill when geared with full healing power. If healing power swapped with boon duration in tactics line, a shout heal warrior can gain full healing power in cleric gear and traited with full strength line. This will result as overpowered for high power, toughness and healing power, and high self burst heal ability….

For now, a shout heal warrior wants full healing power they got to sacrifice strength and go for full defense…

Therefore, boon duration on tactics line is 100% make sense.

How does boon duration help warhorn, banners, shouts more then healing power?

Banner Regeneration Lasts forever regardless of how much boon duration you have, an extra healing +40 per tick would be an AMAZING help.

Warhorn conditions converting to boons doesn’t increase the boons you convert.

The only shout that has a boon is “For Great Justice.”

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

To Daecollo

Lets look at how Healing power works:
All self heal skill -base effect +100% of healing power
Shout heal skill -base effect +80% of healing power

Lets look at boon duration, noted that it is duration you apply

1) When it comes to Defense, since warrior cannot access to protection boon, so boon duration is not more helpful on survival than a good self heal can provide.

2) On the other hand, for tactics line, warhorn / shout / banner gain more benefit from boon duration increase.

3) Shout heal is a very powerful skill when geared with full healing power. If healing power swapped with boon duration in tactics line, a shout heal warrior can gain full healing power in cleric gear and traited with full strength line. This will result as overpowered for high power, toughness and healing power, and high self burst heal ability….

For now, a shout heal warrior wants full healing power they got to sacrifice strength and go for full defense…

Therefore, boon duration on tactics line is 100% make sense.

How does boon duration help warhorn, banners, shouts more then healing power?

Banner Regeneration Lasts forever regardless of how much boon duration you have, an extra healing +40 per tick would be an AMAZING help.

Warhorn conditions converting to boons doesn’t increase the boons you convert.

The only shout that has a boon is “For Great Justice.”

There are a lot of quality discussions about how much healing power scaled for regen banner and shout heal in GW2 guru forum, please go check it out. The conclusion is going shout heal, better go full cleric and if you don’t plan to have ANY healing power, better go for regen banner. Therefore, healing power as a support attribute is only worth while traited with shout heal; without traited with shout heal, its value is no different than it is in defense which is more self heal for more survivability.

On the other hand, Warhorn give quickness and vigor to allies, FGJ give fury / might to allies, battle standard give might and stability, these skill as team support benefit from boon duration even just 1 point in tactics.

Don’t you know warhorn give team buff to allies which is boon? You sure you played a warrior, dude?

Healing power value compare chart:
If 10-300 in defense = more survival for yourself ; If 10-290 in tactics = more survival for yourself; 300 in tactics = more healing for yourself and allies when traited with shout heal

Boon duration value compare chart:
If 10-300 in defense = self buff and team buff longer duration; If 10-300 in Tactics = self buff and team buff longer duration with 3 traits to reduce 20% CD of skill. Moreover, these CD reduction skill are at adept (banner), master (shout and warhorn) which means 20 point will benefit allies a lot.

Is it really worth to swap boon duration to healing power?

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

Crossaber.8934:

To Daecollo

Lets look at how Healing power works:
All self heal skill -base effect +100% of healing power
Shout heal skill -base effect +80% of healing power

Lets look at boon duration, noted that it is duration you apply

1) When it comes to Defense, since warrior cannot access to protection boon, so boon duration is not more helpful on survival than a good self heal can provide.

2) On the other hand, for tactics line, warhorn / shout / banner gain more benefit from boon duration increase.

3) Shout heal is a very powerful skill when geared with full healing power. If healing power swapped with boon duration in tactics line, a shout heal warrior can gain full healing power in cleric gear and traited with full strength line. This will result as overpowered for high power, toughness and healing power, and high self burst heal ability….

For now, a shout heal warrior wants full healing power they got to sacrifice strength and go for full defense…

Therefore, boon duration on tactics line is 100% make sense.

How does boon duration help warhorn, banners, shouts more then healing power?

Banner Regeneration Lasts forever regardless of how much boon duration you have, an extra healing +40 per tick would be an AMAZING help.

Warhorn conditions converting to boons doesn’t increase the boons you convert.

The only shout that has a boon is “For Great Justice.”

There are a lot of quality discussions about how much healing power scaled for regen banner and shout heal in GW2 guru forum, please go check it out. The conclusion is going shout heal, better go full cleric and if you don’t plan to have ANY healing power, better go for regen banner. Therefore, healing power as a support attribute is only worth while traited with shout heal; without traited with shout heal, its value is no different than it is in defense which is more self heal for more survivability.

On the other hand, Warhorn give quickness and vigor to allies, FGJ give fury / might to allies, battle standard give might and stability, these skill as team support benefit from boon duration even just 1 point in tactics.

Don’t you know warhorn give team buff to allies which is boon? You sure you played a warrior, dude?

Healing power value compare chart:
If 10-300 in defense = more survival for yourself ; If 10-290 in tactics = more survival for yourself; 300 in tactics = more healing for yourself and allies when traited with shout heal

Boon duration value compare chart:
If 10-300 in defense = self buff and team buff longer duration; If 10-300 in Tactics = self buff and team buff longer duration with 3 traits to reduce 20% CD of skill. Moreover, these CD reduction skill are at adept (banner), master (shout and warhorn) which means 20 point will benefit allies a lot.

Is it really worth to swap boon duration to healing power?

That depends, your depending it on “one” weapon set, Warhorn is mostly for its cures, not its buffs.

If Toughness Tree had “boon duration.”, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Focus would actually be worth taking as a trait, because it would give stance warrior access to a lot more vigor then warhorn could.

Your only comparing it to one tree, why don’t you actually compare it to the other tree and its gains?

Daecollo.9578:

That depends, your depending it on “one” weapon set, Warhorn is mostly for its cures, not its buffs.

If Toughness Tree had “boon duration.”, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Focus would actually be worth taking as a trait, because it would give stance warrior access to a lot more vigor then warhorn could.

Your only comparing it to one tree, why don’t you actually compare it to the other tree and its gains?

30 in tactics with another 30% boon duration increase from mixing rune, warhorn is giving permanent swiftness and vigor to you and your allies, how does it not better than long CD stance with vigor? As i recall there are no CD reduction trait for stance, and sure foot only add 25% duration to stance, how does 30% boon duration increase is more effective on 8 sec vigor to yourself from stance than 10 sec vigor from warhorn to nearby allies?

Didn’t we are discussing the value to swap boon duration with healing power, how come a trait from discipline intercepted?

Dude, i still don’t understand your concept.

Crossaber.8934:

Daecollo.9578:

That depends, your depending it on “one” weapon set, Warhorn is mostly for its cures, not its buffs.

If Toughness Tree had “boon duration.”, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Focus would actually be worth taking as a trait, because it would give stance warrior access to a lot more vigor then warhorn could.

Your only comparing it to one tree, why don’t you actually compare it to the other tree and its gains?

30 in tactics with another 30% boon duration increase from mixing rune, warhorn is giving permanent swiftness and vigor to you and your allies, how does it not better than long CD stance with vigor? As i recall there are no CD reduction trait for stance, and sure foot only add 25% duration to stance, how does 30% boon duration increase is more effective on 8 sec vigor to yourself from stance than 10 sec vigor from warhorn to nearby allies?

Didn’t we are discussing the value to swap boon duration with healing power, how come a trait from discipline intercepted?

Dude, i still don’t understand your concept.

Because you can get a trait that activates a stance “adding 8 vigor.” and 3 utility slots for another 3 stances, adding another 24 vigor, all together with boon duration, that is 41 Vigor, and thats longer then the stances recharge rate.

Daecollo.9578:

Because you can get a trait that activates a stance “adding 8 vigor.” and 3 utility slots for another 3 stances, adding another 24 vigor, all together with boon duration, that is 41 Vigor, and thats longer then the stances recharge rate.

I know how you can make use of the stance vigor, i just don’t understand your concept behind trying to make the most valuable team support attribute swap into def and narrow its benefit to the player rather than create more team advantages.

And i believe i will never understand because for the 6 classes i’ve played i always bring some team support elements.

I am done with this topic, no matter how you want to make sense of your idea, i am sure they will not change anything.