Guild Wars 2

anet programed 10% speed increase to be 10th of a second faster. And from all of the testing that has been done not only including mine that seems 100% correct.

Now we can sit here and argue what exactly that means for a real world DPS increase but as it stands now that backs up the 3 axe chain theory with a 4th chain landing faster as the 1st skill chop is a 1/4 second cast time or .25 which means after 3 rotations. .1+.1+.1 you have accumulated enough time savings that the 4th chain can now land .3s faster.

Further more at 20 seconds you have accumulated enough time savings to now land the 1st double chop of the 7th axe chain .6 Faster than had you not be able to. .1+.1+.1+.1+.1+.1

And so forth.

That means you can take any of the equations that were done by anyone else that showed anything besides that with a grain of salt. I am trying not to be a jerk but after being trolled so hard its kinda hard not to.

That also means that quickness is a coefficient of .5 seconds faster. Or if something normally takes 1 second than it will only take half a second. Pretty simple.

And no quickness has no affect on aftercast which is the time after you finish a skill that you are not permitted to cast any other skills. Quickness and or speed boosts as implemented in this game effect strictly channel time AKA activation time.

My argument as is stands is we are talking about fractions of a second here. Not large fractions. And under the circumstances that you are able to land this many consecutive axe chains on a boss or a dungeon mob or so forth. That chop the skill by itself is not a particularity high DPS skill. And when you compare the DPS that chop did to the DPS of the 3 axe chains prior to it it is an extremely small DPS increase. Overall.

And in the situations where you cannot you are talking about times savings as little as .1s And that would most likely only happen inside of a vacuum chamber.

Thank you for reading.

Update. Controversial Info regarding channel times of the axe chain.

This skill was opened up in a non liner video editor and estimated to have skill channel time roughly of 3.2s With an after cast of about .15s

Which makes Normal Axe chains Channel time
3.2 + After cast roughly 3.35
DWA Axe Chains Chanel time
3.1 + After cast 3.25

In 10s DPS test
Normal Axe chain
Damage of all 3 chians land in under 10s the the aftercast of the 3rd chain extending to 10.05

DWA
Damage of all 3 chains land in under 10s+ to about 9.75s Chop of the the 4th chain at slightly before 10s at roughly 9.95

Above yet to be confirmed by other players with a computer and the software to test it. This cannot be tested with a stop watch. If must be opened in a non liner video editor and expected frame by frame. The computer must be strong enough to record at 30fps without dropping frames.

“Because I tested it” does not count as evidence at all. Provide us with results of your test, including your math numbers, your assumptions and screenshots where applicable.

Flissy.4093:

“Because I tested it” does not count as evidence at all. Provide us with results of your test, including your math numbers, your assumptions and screenshots where applicable.

If you are a pro you would have those numbers already and have ran the same test no?

So far there is no evidence that it is good other than a few pros like yourself saying it is sounds familiar.

Warlord.9074:

Flissy.4093:

“Because I tested it” does not count as evidence at all. Provide us with results of your test, including your math numbers, your assumptions and screenshots where applicable.

If you are a pro you would have those numbers already and have ran the same test no?

So far there is no evidence that it is good other than a few pros like yourself saying it is sounds familiar.

I have no idea if it is a good trait. I just go by the description and 10% speed sounds fairly good to me, so I use it. I’m still awaiting people to test if it is a good trait, and from another player’s research here, it looks like it is not.

Whether or not running DWA in 4/6/0/4/0 is better than the old pure-axe empowered allies build (30/10/0/20/10), I am awaiting testing on (I do not want to do this myself).

What build were you testing it against? For all we know, you were testing DWA in a 0/6/6/2/0 build, while comparing against 6/5/0/2/1 or something similar.

Flissy.4093:

“Because I tested it” does not count as evidence at all. Provide us with results of your test, including your math numbers, your assumptions and screenshots where applicable.

—

Tree.3916:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Tree.3916:

I am curious, as I mentioned above, that the gs portion of the gs+a rotation is almost double the dps of the axe portion. Makes me wonder if it’s better dps, even in a group where the self-Might isn’t needed to even swap. Clearly Goku and Dub and the other lupi warrior solos have unscientifically figured out that it’s better when solo especially with strength runes, but I will go back in and do the math to see if it’s better in groups too.

Its better for the same reasons as in solo. You rarely have perma 25 might and vuln in casual runs. Obviously if you are doing a record or you are super keen every casual run like DD do then its not the best choice.

That isn’t good enough for me. I want to test it. It might be the best dps even in a record run but I won’t rely on conventional wisdom to decide that for me.

Edit: Forgive the badness of this dps rotation (and Swiftpaw audio), it could obviously be tightened up, but I was on my lunch break and didn’t have time to record something perfect, though it hardly matters once you see the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rshy88kNn_g

GS Rotation

100b = 3
WWAx4 = 3
BT = 2
Rush =2
Auto Chain = 4
GS First Auto = 2

Total Coefficients = 40.4

30/30/0/10/0

Power: 3,919
Crit Chance: 94%
Crit Damager: 117%
Damage Mods: 2.58
Coefficients/30 = 1.35

Total DPS: 12,727

Well that settles it for me. 30/30/0/10/0 GS camping is the top DPS warrior build. You can even have Axe/Mace on swap and start fights with #2 + #4 for vuln burst and then swap to GS camp the whole fight. Either way, this is the best dps you’re going to do.

basically, dual-wield agility is there to fill the gap that axe and gs dps had pre-patch

we should have been camping gs all this time

:)

hendo.1940:

Flissy.4093:

“Because I tested it” does not count as evidence at all. Provide us with results of your test, including your math numbers, your assumptions and screenshots where applicable.

—

Tree.3916:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Tree.3916:

I am curious, as I mentioned above, that the gs portion of the gs+a rotation is almost double the dps of the axe portion. Makes me wonder if it’s better dps, even in a group where the self-Might isn’t needed to even swap. Clearly Goku and Dub and the other lupi warrior solos have unscientifically figured out that it’s better when solo especially with strength runes, but I will go back in and do the math to see if it’s better in groups too.

Its better for the same reasons as in solo. You rarely have perma 25 might and vuln in casual runs. Obviously if you are doing a record or you are super keen every casual run like DD do then its not the best choice.

That isn’t good enough for me. I want to test it. It might be the best dps even in a record run but I won’t rely on conventional wisdom to decide that for me.

Edit: Forgive the badness of this dps rotation (and Swiftpaw audio), it could obviously be tightened up, but I was on my lunch break and didn’t have time to record something perfect, though it hardly matters once you see the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rshy88kNn_g

GS Rotation

100b = 3
WWAx4 = 3
BT = 2
Rush =2
Auto Chain = 4
GS First Auto = 2

Total Coefficients = 40.4

30/30/0/10/0

Power: 3,919
Crit Chance: 94%
Crit Damager: 117%
Damage Mods: 2.58
Coefficients/30 = 1.35

Total DPS: 12,727

Well that settles it for me. 30/30/0/10/0 GS camping is the top DPS warrior build. You can even have Axe/Mace on swap and start fights with #2 + #4 for vuln burst and then swap to GS camp the whole fight. Either way, this is the best dps you’re going to do.

basically, dual-wield agility is there to fill the gap that axe and gs dps had pre-patch

we should have been camping gs all this time

:)

That’s all well and good, but I took the OP to mean DWA is no good in pure axe build. His post sounds like taking DWA makes pure axe do less DPS than if those points were invested into the crit damage line.

no the point is that the community did this math already. And the consensus was that the trait is not that good. Then later on a couple people said it was good and provided no math or proof and tried to convince the masses it was better.

frifox.5283:

So I did some tests and found the following, warrior axe auto-attack chain happens every:

Untraited

• 3.560 sec

Traited

• 3.280 sec

Difference

• 0.280 sec
• 7.87% (0.280 / 3.560 * 100)

7.87% faster aa chain rate implies a 7.87% damage increase, not 10%. Thought this info might come in handy for the theorycrafters on here.

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

Warlord.9074:

no the point is that the community did this math already. And the consensus was that the trait is not that good. Then later on a couple people said it was good and provided no math or proof and tried to convince the masses it was better.

frifox.5283:

So I did some tests and found the following, warrior axe auto-attack chain happens every:

Untraited

• 3.560 sec

Traited

• 3.280 sec

Difference

• 0.280 sec
• 7.87% (0.280 / 3.560 * 100)

7.87% faster aa chain rate implies a 7.87% damage increase, not 10%. Thought this info might come in handy for the theorycrafters on here.

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

There we go, some maths. Just back up your statement in future to avoid this long, convoluted path just to end up getting you to post some eventually anyway.

Do note that I like DWA, but I still use the GS/AM build when not using EA.

Again, for the EA build I’m still awaiting maths if 4/6/0/4/0 is better than 6/2/0/4/2.

Flissy.4093:

Again, for the EA build I’m still awaiting maths if 4/6/0/4/0 is better than 6/2/0/4/2.

for the OP: DWA is good. It’s an 8.2% dps increase. This is a good thing. 8.2% is pretty good for a GM trait in a line that doesn’t have another good GM trait. That settles the “is it good” question.

Your specific question is harder to answer because those two builds have a different DPS rotation. I would have to record video of each DPS rotation to give you a 100% answer, but let’s assume a worst case scenario and the 4/6 version doesn’t use Eviscerate, though why it wouldn’t is beyond me.

6/2 EP = 17,241
4/6 EP = 18,149

The difference is about 5%. In practice its a fair bit higher in favor of the 4/6 build since the 4/6 build can Eviscerate.

While I cant say much in terms of raw dps, I’d certainly say DWA has its use in pvp environments. When you are relying on dps AND hitting faster than your opponent can heal, every bit of a second counts.

Warlord.9074:

no the point is that the community did this math already. And the consensus was that the trait is not that good. Then later on a couple people said it was good and provided no math or proof and tried to convince the masses it was better.

frifox.5283:

So I did some tests and found the following, warrior axe auto-attack chain happens every:

Untraited

• 3.560 sec

Traited

• 3.280 sec

Difference

• 0.280 sec
• 7.87% (0.280 / 3.560 * 100)

7.87% faster aa chain rate implies a 7.87% damage increase, not 10%. Thought this info might come in handy for the theorycrafters on here.

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

This is only true if you are the only one attacking the target. If there are other players attacking you will sometimes get an extra hit when the target would otherwise have died between swings.

Also, your line of reasoning is like arguing that a 10% increase in damage is useless if you would have killed it in the same number of hits even without the increase. Ex: You normally hit for 100 per hit and target has 1000 health. It takes you 10 hits whether you hit for 100 or for 110.

I have made a video that I will upload later. The results are clear.

I compared how many hits occurred in a 30 second time.

With DWA 54 Hits in 30 seconds /w axe
Without DWA 51 Hits in 30 seconds. /w axe.

On average 1 extra hit every 10 seconds when attacking in a 30 second window.

What that means if you stop attacking before 10 seconds the trait is useless. You will then get 1 extra hit not an entire chain.

The findings are clear the DPS is not in fact better than the old meta as the DPS burst of 100 blades in a rotation is more DPS than this.

TY all for reading.

Video Test Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtTEjEZ8Kmg&feature=youtu.be

You are so late to the party and your conclusions are wrong. 30/30/0/10/0 is 6-10% better dps than 30/25 even with gs burst.

But 30/30 pure axe isn’t even the top warrior dps build. the old meta 30/25 is like, the third best warrior build for straight dps, not considering utility.

Worry not, all will be clear in time.

watch video video doesn’t lie sorry what I say is true. The trait is not even 10% better than axe with no trait…The point is just to measure how many more hits occour and how frequently they occur with AA. That is all.

Late to the party? I think not what my video shows is what was said the day the trait was revealed it was only later that people made up that the trait was a this huge DPS increase and said that made it the new meta which is false.

This trait could be fair as minor master tier replacing Critical Burst. The effect could be increased to 25%, affects all weapon/bundle skills, and the name changed to just “Agility” or “Something Agility”.
Critical burst could be send to major grandmaster tier with changed effect, now this trait could increase critical damage with burst skills in 100%

Warlord.9074:

I have made a video that I will upload later. The results are clear.

I compared how many hits occurred in a 30 second time.

With DWA 54 Hits in 30 seconds /w axe
Without DWA 51 Hits in 30 seconds. /w axe.

On average 1 extra hit every 10 seconds when attacking in a 30 second window.

What that means if you stop attacking before 10 seconds the trait is useless. You will then get 1 extra hit not an entire chain.

The findings are clear the DPS is not in fact better than the old meta as the DPS burst of 100 blades in a rotation is more DPS than this.

TY all for reading.

Video Test Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtTEjEZ8Kmg&feature=youtu.be

You should practice your basic math skills. 10% is 10% regardless of the base amount. Faster attacks means more time for something else.

It’s like saying how 10% more damage is useless because if you only hit once for 1k that’s just 100 more damage.

Warlord.9074:

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

You are completely ignoring the fact that DWA affects both the Warrior’s main-hand and off-hand which allows the Warrior to also utilize their other skills quicker. Especially in the case that, like you said, a Warrior is forced to cancel their Axe auto’s final hit to avoid a major attack. Obviously that’s a DPS loss. However, in some situations, DWA will land that final Axe hit AND you can dodge for a much higher DPS.

Regardless how you think it’s a “weak” trait, 10% IAS is still a DPS increase.

So, people who argue against DWA argument with videos, people for DWA argument with math. Obvious fail is obvious.

Lampshade.7569:

So, people who argue against DWA argument with videos, people for DWA argument with math. Obvious fail is obvious.

Until we know your IQ, it’s hard to tell which one is the obvious fail.

IDGI

You are tunnel vision-ing on that “extra hit” after ~10 seconds.

The entirety of the duration before that extra hit you are still attacking 10% faster than someone without this trait. Thus you delivered damage within a shorter timeframe. Which is the definition of a DPS increase. Unless I’m missing something???

Jzaku.9765:

IDGI

You are tunnel vision-ing on that “extra hit” after ~10 seconds.

The entirety of the duration before that extra hit you are still attacking 10% faster than someone without this trait. Thus you delivered damage within a shorter timeframe. Which is the definition of a DPS increase. Unless I’m missing something???

Whilst this is true, the trait is a bit boring. I mean, I’m not asking for perm quickness but you can barely notice the 10% speed up, especially as dual wielding attacks as fast as it does already.

Whether people agree there’s a SLIGHT increase or not… I think the fact of the matter is that this trait pretty much sucks for a grandmaster(especially one that’s 3g/20skills or quest rewarded) and you’re better off using something else. If this sucker had a 25% increase, NOW we’re talking.

Lampshade.7569:

So, people who argue against DWA argument with videos, people for DWA argument with math. Obvious fail is obvious.

I use both actually.

“Only 3 hits” still represents a coefficient of 2.9 extra for the 30 seconds. Let’s split the difference and say 2.5.

A 30/30 Axe build with full party buffs will make around (depending on the cleanliness of your dps rotation) 11,900 DPS. Over 30 seconds it will make about 357,000 damage. The “three extra hits” are worth 25,966 damage.

This works out to be a DPS increase of about 7.3%. This is incidentally, the amount I indicated earlier (8.2% using real DPS rotations and not just auto attacks) and pretty confirms what everyone has been saying for about two weeks now. So you see, when I said you were late to the party, well, you’re late to the party.

Congrats on proving it’s the exact dps increase we knew it was 10 days ago, though.

Harkan.9017:

Warlord.9074:

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

You are completely ignoring the fact that DWA affects both the Warrior’s main-hand and off-hand which allows the Warrior to also utilize their other skills quicker. Especially in the case that, like you said, a Warrior is forced to cancel their Axe auto’s final hit to avoid a major attack. Obviously that’s a DPS loss. However, in some situations, DWA will land that final Axe hit AND you can dodge for a much higher DPS.

Regardless how you think it’s a “weak” trait, 10% IAS is still a DPS increase.

Lol I am not missing that point at all. BTW what off hand skills are high damage ones or are useful? IF you stop AA to do a off hand skill that does less damage than AA.

Warlord.9074:

The problem is its not a DPS increase. Its only a situational DPS increase where as you AA long enough to be beneficial otherwise its not an increase at all. Also that doesn’t mean that that extra hit will be a high damage one… I think the people who say its a 7% -10% are missing that point entirely. My video proves that.

Trolling or just…?

Wethospu.6437:

Warlord.9074:

The problem is its not a DPS increase. Its only a situational DPS increase where as you AA long enough to be beneficial otherwise its not an increase at all. Also that doesn’t mean that that extra hit will be a high damage one… I think the people who say its a 7% -10% are missing that point entirely. My video proves that.

Trolling or just…?

Not trolling the difference between me and other is i tested it and made a video to prove it. while other just read something on a forum and or did a pen and paper math calculation and believed it. They trust whatever NIKE says on the other forum.

I never believed what I read because it made no sense thats why i am here.

Way this trait works in practice to be a DPS increase in under the circumstances that that Attack speed eventually equates into extra hits in a set time period. It doesn’t start to give you extra hits until about 10s into Auto attacking. Which basically means if you want an extra hit in the same time it would take you to DPS without a trait you have to not stop AA for longer than 10s. At which case if you can AA for 30s uninterrupted you will have 3 extra hits. About an extra hit every 10s with axes.

Normally it would be an obvious increase the fact that it is on 10% attack speeed makes it too low for it to catch up to be much better or better in most scenarios.

In PVE where mobs DIE very fast in under 10s the trait is giving you no DPS increase as it didn’t have long enough to be better. In situations where you stop AA to block or use other skills you lose DPS becasue you stop attacking or other skills don’t do as much DPS as AA, and you don’t get an extra hit on AA then.

That is the point you can count how many hits occurred in under 10s with both builds and the same amount of hits happened which means that the trait doesn’t become better until at 10s when u get another hit. This is why it is not a DPS increase in real world. MAybe it is on paper you guys can have fun arguing whos math is better or argue how much of and increase it is I will stick to what happens in real life where no increases occur until after 10s.

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Wethospu.6437:

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Ya total damage time in 9 secs was the same. with and without the trait thats what I am arguing. DWA doesn’t do more damage in the same time until the 10% increase has time to equate into more DPS.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen. And if DWA isn’t given the time to equate into more hits in the same time by using off hand skills or stop attacking then the trait helped you none.

Warlord.9074:

Not trolling the difference between me and other is i tested it and made a video to prove it. while other just read something on a forum and or did a pen and paper math calculation and believed it. They trust whatever NIKE says on the other forum.

Nike is a lot smarter than you, though. You’ll have to trust me on that one. And he did test it. And he did provide video. You just aren’t looking in the right places where intelligent conversation happens. And he did conclude it’s a 7.3% dps increase for auto attacks and 8.2% for a real rotation.

So again, you’re late to the party. Also again, congrats on verifying the conclusions the dungeon community figured out 30 minutes after the patch came out.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen.

In 9 seconds a 7.2% dps modifier would show roughly similar dps increases. What you miss is that you can, in fact, measure the extra hits.

For example, let’s take a 9 second window per your example.

The normal axe auto attack takes 3.6 seconds to channel. You would get 2 full chains off and then a chop and a double chop.

The DWA axe auto takes 3.24 seconds. You would get two full chain and then the first hit of triple chop. UH OH.

In 9 seconds the non-DWA build does 13.5 coefficients. The DWA build does 14.2.

1 – (13.5/14.2) = 5%. So even in your tiny 9 second sample it has a 5% advantage in dps. Since it caps out at about 8.2% it really doesn’t take long to ramp up to that.

See ya.

Tree.3916:

Warlord.9074:

Not trolling the difference between me and other is i tested it and made a video to prove it. while other just read something on a forum and or did a pen and paper math calculation and believed it. They trust whatever NIKE says on the other forum.

Nike is a lot smarter than you, though. You’ll have to trust me on that one. And he did test it. And he did provide video. You just aren’t looking in the right places where intelligent conversation happens. And he did conclude it’s a 7.3% dps increase for auto attacks and 8.2% for a real rotation.

So again, you’re late to the party. Also again, congrats on verifying the conclusions the dungeon community figured out 30 minutes after the patch came out.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen.

In 9 seconds a 7.2% dps modifier would show roughly similar dps increases. What you miss is that you can, in fact, measure the extra hits.

For example, let’s take a 9 second window per your example.

The normal axe auto attack takes 3.6 seconds to channel. You would get 2 full chains off and then a chop and a double chop.

The DWA axe auto takes 3.24 seconds. You would get two full chain and then the first hit of triple chop. UH OH.

In 9 seconds the non-DWA build does 13.5 coefficients. The DWA build does 14.2.

13.5/14.2 = 5%. So even in your tiny 9 second sample it has a 5% advantage in dps. Since it caps out at about 8.2% it really doesn’t take long to ramp up to that.

See ya.

Yea well my video proves that is not true. Count the hits. You don’t get an extra hit until 10s. So that makes me smarter than u and nike. You are not listening because you cant admit that the game doesnt work the same as pen and paper. ANd in a 9 sec window both builds do the same number of hits. Other than a Boss any mob dies in under this. That makes this trait only a small DPS increase for boss fights when you attack longer than 9 secs on AA chain at any given time. If for any reason u use any other skill or stop the trait doesnt amount to a DPS increase because of the time wasted while performing other actions.

in 9 secs both builds do 17 hits. Between 9-10 seconds or at 10 seconds DWA will land the 18th the final tripple chop slightly faster and then land chop. However both builds can land 3 full axe chains in 10s.

As far as intelligent conversations there is none here because its easier for you to not admit you are wrong. I am not the one that has the burdon of proof its those who make the claims that something is better to prove.

Fact is both builds can land the final tripple chop in 10s with the DWA landing the final one slightly faster. Then is able to land chop faster than the other build.

Basically you are arguing that DWA lands chop faster in 10secs. And calling that a 10% DPS increase. Which clearly using a small sample of 10 secs a single chop does not amount to even a 7% increase It maybe a 1-2% increase and that is only if the sample size is 10secs not less than that.

me and some other warriors have tested it since release, not worth to take it anyway possible. tho we are pvpers.

i can imagine even in pve side its not worth because its arms 30, why would you give up berserker power or fast hand or 15% crit chance if you going 30 in discipline

DWA isn’t very useful for the axe AA chain because so much of the chain is aftercast.

• Chop without DWA: 0.6 sec
• Chop with DWA: .54 sec
• Double Chop without DWA: 1.1 sec
• Double Chop with DWA 1.07 sec
• Triple Chop without DWA: 1.9 sec
• Triple Chop with DWA: 1.75 sec
• Axe auto total without DWA: 3.6 sec
• Axe auto total with DWA: 3.36 sec

It becomes more useful for a lot of other skills, such as Impale and Rip.

• Impale without DWA: .65 s
• Impale with DWA: .59s
• Rip without DWA: 1.1s
• Rip with DWA: 1s

Granted, my framecounting techniques are not perfect resolution (I record 30 FPS) and the game messes with animations when it lags, but I did multiple reps of all the skills listed and took an average of all times excluding outliers. I also calculated the time of a full auto chain in addition to each of the parts using different samples to be able to double check at least some of my work.

I think that for most skills DWA just affects the cast time of the skill and not the aftercast, which can be a very long time.

So between an Impale, full auto chain, and Rip, you’re already saving .4 seconds – 5.35s without DA, but 4.95 with. Do another auto chain and you’re at 8.95 without, 8.31 with. That’s already enough time for an extra Chop, for the sake of this example. If you’re smart, you’d be using Cyclone Axe, too, which is nicely affected by DWA.

Simon.3794:

me and some other warriors have tested it since release, not worth to take it anyway possible. tho we are pvpers.

i can imagine even in pve side its not worth because its arms 30, why would you give up berserker power or fast hand or 15% crit chance if you going 30 in discipline

Empower Allies.

And fast hands isn’t that useful if you don’t switch to a GS.

Ya thats right DWA is more useful for other skills besides AA. In a PVP setting that would maybe help. However there are a lot more viable traits for PVP than this one.

In a PVE setting generally off hand skills like AXE5 the whiling axe does less damage than a full Axe chain so there is no point in doing this. Rip does nice damage. But you have to impale before you do rip. ANd using impale before using rip sort of discounts the DPS benifits of rip. Becasue I could argue that becasue One has to press a button twice it may be better to just continue AA……especially if at the end of duoble chop or mid chipple chop. It would only make since to use rip if that is your opening attack.

All in all like I said before with and without the trait One can land 3 full axe chains in 10s. DWA only pulls ahead after than by being able to land the 1st chop on the 4th chain at 10s instead of 11s without the trait.

So saying that in real world fighting mobs that die faster than 10s or having to stop attacking a boss to dodge or using other skills besides AA people are arguing that landing CHOP faster on the 4th chain and subsequent chains is a 10% DPS increase is very far from the truth. If this scenario happpened a single chop does not amount to even a 7% increase. At most its a 5% increase only in that scenario. All other scenarios there is no DPS increase.

Warlord.9074:

Tree.3916:

Warlord.9074:

Not trolling the difference between me and other is i tested it and made a video to prove it. while other just read something on a forum and or did a pen and paper math calculation and believed it. They trust whatever NIKE says on the other forum.

Nike is a lot smarter than you, though. You’ll have to trust me on that one. And he did test it. And he did provide video. You just aren’t looking in the right places where intelligent conversation happens. And he did conclude it’s a 7.3% dps increase for auto attacks and 8.2% for a real rotation.

So again, you’re late to the party. Also again, congrats on verifying the conclusions the dungeon community figured out 30 minutes after the patch came out.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen.

In 9 seconds a 7.2% dps modifier would show roughly similar dps increases. What you miss is that you can, in fact, measure the extra hits.

For example, let’s take a 9 second window per your example.

The normal axe auto attack takes 3.6 seconds to channel. You would get 2 full chains off and then a chop and a double chop.

The DWA axe auto takes 3.24 seconds. You would get two full chain and then the first hit of triple chop. UH OH.

In 9 seconds the non-DWA build does 13.5 coefficients. The DWA build does 14.2.

13.5/14.2 = 5%. So even in your tiny 9 second sample it has a 5% advantage in dps. Since it caps out at about 8.2% it really doesn’t take long to ramp up to that.

See ya.

Yea well my video proves that is not true. Count the hits. You don’t get an extra hit until 10s. So that makes me smarter than u and nike. You are not listening because you cant admit that the game doesnt work the same as pen and paper. ANd in a 9 sec window both builds do the same number of hits. Other than a Boss any mob dies in under this. That makes this trait only a small DPS increase for boss fights when you attack longer than 9 secs on AA chain at any given time. If for any reason u use any other skill or stop the trait doesnt amount to a DPS increase because of the time wasted while performing other actions.

in 9 secs both builds do 17 hits. Between 9-10 seconds or at 10 seconds DWA will land the 18th the final tripple chop slightly faster and then land chop. However both builds can land 3 full axe chains in 10s.

As far as intelligent conversations there is none here because its easier for you to not admit you are wrong. I am not the one that has the burdon of proof its those who make the claims that something is better to prove.

Fact is both builds can land the final tripple chop in 10s with the DWA landing the final one slightly faster. Then is able to land chop faster than the other build.

Basically you are arguing that DWA lands chop faster in 10secs. And calling that a 10% DPS increase. Which clearly using a small sample of 10 secs a single chop does not amount to even a 7% increase It maybe a 1-2% increase and that is only if the sample size is 10secs not less than that.

You are most certainly wrong. DWA, at 9 seconds exactly, gets an extra hit. At 9.5 it doesn’t. But you didn’t say 9.5. You said 9 seconds. Sorry to tell you that.

Heck, it gets an extra hit at 3.25 seconds. At 3.25 seconds its 5% ahead on dps already. Is it any wonder why you are not understanding this? You don’t seem to understand that if you arbitrarily stop at the clock at some specific times you can cherry pick the results you want.

So far in this thread you picked 30 seconds and 9 seconds. I showed it is a significant dps increase for both those windows. But hey, keep cherry picking time frames and you might actually find one that supports your thesis. Maybe.

If I were you though, I would work on understanding the game and game mechanics than being concerned about who you’re smarter than or not, as the case is.

Tremor and Impale-Rip are both DPS increases in melee. Granted, it’s often wiser to use Tremor for the CC, but a 2x(0.8) coefficient for an investment of 0.8 seconds without DWA is worth nothing.

Impale-Rip takes a bit more finesse to see the value. Let’s assume a 6/5/0/0/3 GS+A/M setup in a fully buffed environment since taking DWA benefits Rip-Impale more than the auto.

• Axe Auto DPS: 10606.7 (1.39 coeff per second)
• Impale-Rip Direct DPS: 9818.2 (1.29 coeff per second)

Now we can’t just Impale-Rip, Impale-Rip. Let’s just look at how much damage that axe auto does over the 1.75 seconds of the I-R animation.

• Axe Auto average Damage: 18561
• I-R Damage: 17181

Yes, I just multiplied by 1.75 so no surprise Axe still wins. But Impale also applies 2 stacks of torment with a base 12 second duration and adds an additional stack for each second until your Rip up to a total of 5 stacks. With 6 points in Strength, that’s a 12*1.3 = 15.6 duration, but since conditions tick once per second it’s really only 15 seconds.

Torment applies 31.875+(.0375*Condition Damage) damage per stack per second. Since we assume full might and banners and 5 in Arms, that means we have 1295 Condition Damage. Surprised? Yeah, you have almost as much Condition Damage than someone wearing full Dire gear (albeit unbuffed). So for the fully buffed 6/5/0/0/3 warrior, Torment does 80 damage per stack per second. Waiting a whole auto attack chain until you Rip means you apply 3 additional stacks for a total of 5 stacks of Torment.

• Axe Auto average damage: 18561 (over 1.75 seconds)
• I-R damage: 17181+ 80*(5*15) = 23181 (from 1.75 seconds of character effort)

And, I-R surpasses average axe auto damage after 18 ticks of torment, which you achieve 5 seconds after your impale – not a very long time at all. Any additional ticks after that is a DPS gain. For different builds, the condition damage and duration will vary a bit, but not to the point that you’re going to have to wait like 10 seconds to see the benefit from I-R. 6/6, for example, has even more condition damage and speeds up I-R more than the axe auto.

Warlord.9074:

Harkan.9017:

Warlord.9074:

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

You are completely ignoring the fact that DWA affects both the Warrior’s main-hand and off-hand which allows the Warrior to also utilize their other skills quicker. Especially in the case that, like you said, a Warrior is forced to cancel their Axe auto’s final hit to avoid a major attack. Obviously that’s a DPS loss. However, in some situations, DWA will land that final Axe hit AND you can dodge for a much higher DPS.

Regardless how you think it’s a “weak” trait, 10% IAS is still a DPS increase.

Lol I am not missing that point at all. BTW what off hand skills are high damage ones or are useful? IF you stop AA to do a off hand skill that does less damage than AA.

….. Are you serious? Axe 2, Mace 4 and 5, and Sword 4 all of which increases your party’s DPS and have high damage on its own. Are you those Warriors that use Signet of Might instead of Strength Banner in a dungeon cuz you want an extra 10 power? lol

Tree.3916:

Warlord.9074:

Tree.3916:

Warlord.9074:

Not trolling the difference between me and other is i tested it and made a video to prove it. while other just read something on a forum and or did a pen and paper math calculation and believed it. They trust whatever NIKE says on the other forum.

Nike is a lot smarter than you, though. You’ll have to trust me on that one. And he did test it. And he did provide video. You just aren’t looking in the right places where intelligent conversation happens. And he did conclude it’s a 7.3% dps increase for auto attacks and 8.2% for a real rotation.

So again, you’re late to the party. Also again, congrats on verifying the conclusions the dungeon community figured out 30 minutes after the patch came out.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen.

In 9 seconds a 7.2% dps modifier would show roughly similar dps increases. What you miss is that you can, in fact, measure the extra hits.

For example, let’s take a 9 second window per your example.

The normal axe auto attack takes 3.6 seconds to channel. You would get 2 full chains off and then a chop and a double chop.

The DWA axe auto takes 3.24 seconds. You would get two full chain and then the first hit of triple chop. UH OH.

In 9 seconds the non-DWA build does 13.5 coefficients. The DWA build does 14.2.

13.5/14.2 = 5%. So even in your tiny 9 second sample it has a 5% advantage in dps. Since it caps out at about 8.2% it really doesn’t take long to ramp up to that.

See ya.

Yea well my video proves that is not true. Count the hits. You don’t get an extra hit until 10s. So that makes me smarter than u and nike. You are not listening because you cant admit that the game doesnt work the same as pen and paper. ANd in a 9 sec window both builds do the same number of hits. Other than a Boss any mob dies in under this. That makes this trait only a small DPS increase for boss fights when you attack longer than 9 secs on AA chain at any given time. If for any reason u use any other skill or stop the trait doesnt amount to a DPS increase because of the time wasted while performing other actions.

in 9 secs both builds do 17 hits. Between 9-10 seconds or at 10 seconds DWA will land the 18th the final tripple chop slightly faster and then land chop. However both builds can land 3 full axe chains in 10s.

As far as intelligent conversations there is none here because its easier for you to not admit you are wrong. I am not the one that has the burdon of proof its those who make the claims that something is better to prove.

Fact is both builds can land the final tripple chop in 10s with the DWA landing the final one slightly faster. Then is able to land chop faster than the other build.

Basically you are arguing that DWA lands chop faster in 10secs. And calling that a 10% DPS increase. Which clearly using a small sample of 10 secs a single chop does not amount to even a 7% increase It maybe a 1-2% increase and that is only if the sample size is 10secs not less than that.

You are most certainly wrong. DWA, at 9 seconds exactly, gets an extra hit. At 9.5 it doesn’t. But you didn’t say 9.5. You said 9 seconds. Sorry to tell you that.

Heck, it gets an extra hit at 3.25 seconds. At 3.25 seconds its 5% ahead on dps already. Is it any wonder why you are not understanding this? You don’t seem to understand that if you arbitrarily stop at the clock at some specific times you can cherry pick the results you want.

So far in this thread you picked 30 seconds and 9 seconds. I showed it is a significant dps increase for both those windows. But hey, keep cherry picking time frames and you might actually find one that supports your thesis. Maybe.

If I were you though, I would work on understanding the game and game mechanics than being concerned about who you’re smarter than or not, as the case is.

You are not sorry about anything. Why should I or anyone take someone seriously that talks like that. I am maintaining they both can land the final triple chop in 10s.. I’m fairly certain normal mobs die before this ever happens so why are you still arguing? Good day sir. You whole argument is based on theoretical circumstances and under those circumstances you are right. No matter what you say doesn’t make those theoretical circumstances a reality. Unless you can provide an encounter where your math adds up to be right other than a boss fight lets just agree to disagree. Because the simple fact is 99% of the time this trait does nothing and you know it. That is why you are wrong and I am right.

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

Tremor and Impale-Rip are both DPS increases in melee. Granted, it’s often wiser to use Tremor for the CC, but a 2x(0.8) coefficient for an investment of 0.8 seconds without DWA is worth nothing.

Impale-Rip takes a bit more finesse to see the value. Let’s assume a 6/5/0/0/3 GS+A/M setup in a fully buffed environment since taking DWA benefits Rip-Impale more than the auto.

• Axe Auto DPS: 10606.7 (1.39 coeff per second)
• Impale-Rip Direct DPS: 9818.2 (1.29 coeff per second)

Now we can’t just Impale-Rip, Impale-Rip. Let’s just look at how much damage that axe auto does over the 1.75 seconds of the I-R animation.

• Axe Auto average Damage: 18561
• I-R Damage: 17181

Yes, I just multiplied by 1.75 so no surprise Axe still wins. But Impale also applies 2 stacks of torment with a base 12 second duration and adds an additional stack for each second until your Rip up to a total of 5 stacks. With 6 points in Strength, that’s a 12*1.3 = 15.6 duration, but since conditions tick once per second it’s really only 15 seconds.

Torment applies 31.875+(.0375*Condition Damage) damage per stack per second. Since we assume full might and banners and 5 in Arms, that means we have 1295 Condition Damage. Surprised? Yeah, you have almost as much Condition Damage than someone wearing full Dire gear (albeit unbuffed). So for the fully buffed 6/5/0/0/3 warrior, Torment does 80 damage per stack per second. Waiting a whole auto attack chain until you Rip means you apply 3 additional stacks for a total of 5 stacks of Torment.

• Axe Auto average damage: 18561 (over 1.75 seconds)
• I-R damage: 17181+ 80*(5*15) = 23181 (from 1.75 seconds of character effort)

And, I-R surpasses average axe auto damage after 18 ticks of torment, which you achieve 5 seconds after your impale – not a very long time at all. Any additional ticks after that is a DPS gain. For different builds, the condition damage and duration will vary a bit, but not to the point that you’re going to have to wait like 10 seconds to see the benefit from I-R. 6/6, for example, has even more condition damage and speeds up I-R more than the axe auto.

To the above poster who said leaving Torment on a target for 5 seconds you realize torment doesn’t tick twice unless the target is moving…If you are stacking the mob isn’t moving thus it stationary only is 1 tick per sec. That and besided the 300 Condition damage from traits warriors have no other condition damage.

Formula is

(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80

.0375X300=11.25+31.875 per stack=43.125×5=215.625 Assuming the target is not moving. 215.625 X 5 seconds =1078.125 That still makes I+R less than a full axe chain by your math. And even if the target moved enough to make it equal it begs the question why its a waste of time. And in the point is wasting time doing this.

I don’t want to pick on you because I think you have been fair and down to earth so far. But my argument with your statement is pretty much the same as trees Its using a theoretical circumstance to argue that if the target would be moving then rip isnt a waste of time for saying that rip is better DPS than axe chain.

It comes down to time pretty much. Like for speed runs every second or fractions of a second count.

So say DWA saves you 0.6 seconds over not using DWA. If you add that up over the length of a dungeon run it’ll save you a few seconds. And for speed/record runs this matters. But it is true that for PuG runs it won’t since your teammates won’t take advantage of that time or you have to wait for your teammates to get into positions for the next part of the dungeon.

As for DPS, DWA does increase DPS. Since DPS is damage over a specific period of time. So if you hit a full rotation in say 9.2s with the trait versus say 9.5s without the trait. It is still a DPS increase. Although it is important to note the damage can be the same even though technically DPS is higher. So say the full rotation is 50k dmg then with DWA it is 50k/9.2s versus 50k/9.5s . DPS is higher with DWA but the total damage you do for that full rotation may be the same. Say a boss has 300k hp and you do 300k damage over 10 seconds. Now say you have Time Warp and you do that damage over 5 seconds. Your DPS is higher with Time Warp even though you are doing the same amount of damage. So even though with DWA you don’t get that extra hit/skill you are still doing more DPS.

For the average player DWA won’t matter much but truthfully what other minor trait will you get instead of going 6 in Arms for DWA if your base build is 6/5/0/x/x . DWA isn’t the greatest trait but it doesn’t hurt anyways since alternatively what else would you take as a pure Axe build.

Warlord.9074:

To the above poster who said leaving Torment on a target for 5 seconds you realize torment doesn’t tick twice unless the target is moving…If you are stacking the mob isn’t moving thus it stationary only is 1 tick per sec.

I wasn’t assuming a moving target. If the Golem were moving, it would actually take 2*(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80

Warlord.9074:

That and besided the 300 Condition damage from traits warriors have no other condition damage.

Warriors have Banner of Strength as well as Might. Banner of Strength grants 170 Condi Dmg in addition to 170 Strength (the top of the wiki page is wrong, but the bottom is correct) and Might grants 35 Strength and 35 Condi Dmg per stack. I assumed 25 might and both banners for my DPS calculations, which people do assume for most DPS calculations, but at the very least they have their banners and 6 might for a decent portion of a battle – 3 from FGJ and 3-5 from their elite.

Warlord.9074:

Wethospu.6437:

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Ya total damage time in 9 secs was the same. with and without the trait thats what I am arguing. DWA doesn’t do more damage in the same time until the 10% increase has time to equate into more DPS.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen. And if DWA isn’t given the time to equate into more hits in the same time by using off hand skills or stop attacking then the trait helped you none.

Logic fail.

Assuming without DWA 1 atk per 1 sec, and with DWA 1 atk per 0.9 sec. In a given interval of 5 seconds, they both hit 5 times and thus do the same damage.

However, let’s say a mob dies in five hits. Without DWA it will take 5 seconds to kill, with DWA it will take 4.5 seconds to kill. Hence 10% faster, and DWA increases your dps by 10%.

kowolo.7619:

Warlord.9074:

Wethospu.6437:

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Ya total damage time in 9 secs was the same. with and without the trait thats what I am arguing. DWA doesn’t do more damage in the same time until the 10% increase has time to equate into more DPS.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen. And if DWA isn’t given the time to equate into more hits in the same time by using off hand skills or stop attacking then the trait helped you none.

Logic fail.

Assuming without DWA 1 atk per 1 sec, and with DWA 1 atk per 0.9 sec. In a given interval of 5 seconds, they both hit 5 times and thus do the same damage.

However, let’s say a mob dies in five hits. Without DWA it will take 5 seconds to kill, with DWA it will take 4.5 seconds to kill. Hence 10% faster, and DWA increases your dps by 10%.

DWA doesn’t boost attack speed high enough for point 5 seconds less in 5 attacks. The whole axe chain is 6 hits. Its only about .5 seconds faster after about 17 hits. Which is the whole point of the thread.

Warlord.9074:

kowolo.7619:

Warlord.9074:

Wethospu.6437:

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Ya total damage time in 9 secs was the same. with and without the trait thats what I am arguing. DWA doesn’t do more damage in the same time until the 10% increase has time to equate into more DPS.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen. And if DWA isn’t given the time to equate into more hits in the same time by using off hand skills or stop attacking then the trait helped you none.

Logic fail.

Assuming without DWA 1 atk per 1 sec, and with DWA 1 atk per 0.9 sec. In a given interval of 5 seconds, they both hit 5 times and thus do the same damage.

However, let’s say a mob dies in five hits. Without DWA it will take 5 seconds to kill, with DWA it will take 4.5 seconds to kill. Hence 10% faster, and DWA increases your dps by 10%.

DWA doesn’t boost attack speed high enough for point 5 seconds less in 5 attacks. The whole axe chain is 6 hits. Its only about .5 seconds faster after about 17 hits. Which is the whole point of the thread.

he was making an example of why your logic fails. the point is yes, it’s the same number of attacks, but one is completed faster than the other, no matter how long you count for. therefore it’s a dps increase no matter what time frame you want to consider.

wads.5730:

Warlord.9074:

kowolo.7619:

Warlord.9074:

Wethospu.6437:

DPS isn’t same thing as “how many hits you get”. It’s average damage per second. In other words, total damage per total time.

DWA keeps your total damage same but decreases total time, even with one hit.

Ya total damage time in 9 secs was the same. with and without the trait thats what I am arguing. DWA doesn’t do more damage in the same time until the 10% increase has time to equate into more DPS.

The whole point is it takes more time for DWA to show real world increases. So under less time no real world increases happen. And if DWA isn’t given the time to equate into more hits in the same time by using off hand skills or stop attacking then the trait helped you none.

Logic fail.

Assuming without DWA 1 atk per 1 sec, and with DWA 1 atk per 0.9 sec. In a given interval of 5 seconds, they both hit 5 times and thus do the same damage.

However, let’s say a mob dies in five hits. Without DWA it will take 5 seconds to kill, with DWA it will take 4.5 seconds to kill. Hence 10% faster, and DWA increases your dps by 10%.

DWA doesn’t boost attack speed high enough for point 5 seconds less in 5 attacks. The whole axe chain is 6 hits. Its only about .5 seconds faster after about 17 hits. Which is the whole point of the thread.

he was making an example of why your logic fails. the point is yes, it’s the same number of attacks, but one is completed faster than the other, no matter how long you count for. therefore it’s a dps increase no matter what time frame you want to consider.

My logic is perfectly sound because the trait doesn’t boost the speed of aftercast. And that is the hindrance. The trait has to overcome the aftercast effect before it starts to shine and it takes longer than kittens. But I am done posting in this thread. The info is out there now. If you guys want to use it go for it.

Only thing people have to understand that it’s bit less than 10% as there is some idle time (using values by frifox).

Untraited: 3.560 sec
Traited: 3.280 sec

DPS: Damage/speed
Untraited: X/3.56 s
Traited: X/3.28 s

Traited/Untraited = 3.56/3.28 = 1.0854 → 8.54% more DPS on axe chain.

Harkan.9017:

Warlord.9074:

Harkan.9017:

Warlord.9074:

Constantly people keep saying its a 7-10% DPS increase but its not. Its only a DPS increase. If at no point do you stop attacking a boss in a long fight. In order to get an extra hit. You have to attack a target for a long time before that attack speed bonus grants and extra hit.

That means the traits gives you no real world bonuses and having more crit damage and beable to do hundred blades and AA with axe like the old meta build is still superior to the new trait 99% of the time.

If at anytime you have to stop attacking or the fight does not last long enough to get an extra hit the trait does absolutely nothing. This is why that trait is no good. And this is why people should not listen to NIKE lol.

You are completely ignoring the fact that DWA affects both the Warrior’s main-hand and off-hand which allows the Warrior to also utilize their other skills quicker. Especially in the case that, like you said, a Warrior is forced to cancel their Axe auto’s final hit to avoid a major attack. Obviously that’s a DPS loss. However, in some situations, DWA will land that final Axe hit AND you can dodge for a much higher DPS.

Regardless how you think it’s a “weak” trait, 10% IAS is still a DPS increase.

Lol I am not missing that point at all. BTW what off hand skills are high damage ones or are useful? IF you stop AA to do a off hand skill that does less damage than AA.

….. Are you serious? Axe 2, Mace 4 and 5, and Sword 4 all of which increases your party’s DPS and have high damage on its own. Are you those Warriors that use Signet of Might instead of Strength Banner in a dungeon cuz you want an extra 10 power? lol

The extra 10 power for the warrior is important because warriors are the highest DPS class and so boosting your own DPS makes a way bigger difference than boosting the rest of the party’s, since they’re not dealing nearly as much as you anyway.

Obviously if you had videos and kitten like OP does you would get this but I guess it’s just beyond the rest of us fifth columnists with our subversive communist activities like “logic”.

Wrong elementalist are the highest dps not warriors.

lol i can get 40k on the last hit on Hundred Blades alone, let’s see a video of an ele beating that

Tree.3916:

Nike is a lot smarter than you, though.

Gotta love it.