Guild Wars 2

Just wonder, what is the problem, logically, for you to use whirling Axe? too risky while casting? or long cd? or just axe design looks bad? what would be reason?

In terms of PvP, of course.

thx!

I don’t know about now, but in in the past it did literally less DPS than the axe autoattack below some large threshold of targets (I think 5?), so it wasn’t ever worth casting, not to mention even bringing in the first place. Offhand sword offers better damage, Shield offers better defensives. I think they buffed it by 50% a while ago, so people probably just don’t bring it now because axe has fallen out of the meta (haven’t played for a while, just assuming), and similarly because the other options are just as good or better anyways.

Currently, it has more to do with off hand mace bringing better utility in the form of, I think, 10 stacks of vuln on a relatively short cooldown. I can’t remember exactly how much vuln it does, since its been a really long time since I last played my warrior. It was a substantial amount and duration though, so much that it can basically be permanently applied by the warrior. The vuln stacks adds more damage across the whole group than anything axe offhand currently has to offer.

The short answer is it’s just not that good. It has very situational use and due to it dealing lower damage than autoattacks on 3 or less targets it makes it an unattractive skill to use. If an offhand is going to offer no defensive utility, it should be pretty darn powerful offensively.

I’ve been playing offhand axe a lot in PvP (see “the finisher” build in my sig, if interested). It is very fun to play, and has many good points, but it does have some issues as well. Is is also a misunderstood weapon, with a bad reputation – and many players tend to trust reputations rather than test by themselves.

The skill had (has) a bad reputation for many reasons. In the past, it did less damage (-17%) and its whirl finisher was broken. PvE players often don’t know there’s a 50% damage bonus in PvP, thus don’t even try playing it. The Whirling Axe stolen by the thief reflects projectiles, but the warrior’s does not.

The skill hits 15 times, which is great and no-so-great. It’s great because you can replenish adrenaline in a fast way, and benefit from the whirl finisher when standing on a combo field (situational though, because the warrior lacks combo fields). It’s not-so-great because each of this hit can trigger retaliation. Also, the overall damage is spread on all the hits – if you miss some, or don’t crit some, then the damage falls (if you hit/crit enough though, you can easily 10k+ in less than 2s, which is not bad DPS for PvP).

As to why it is not played at high level, I’d say it’s because players compare the GS to the sword/axe setup. The GS offers more mobility and has an evade; even if you don’t use Hundred Blades, you still hit hard. Sword/Axe has less mobility, but bring a burst (#3, possibly hard to place) and more soft control (countered by cleanses, blocks, teleports or immo-breaks). So the trade-off might not be worth it, especially in the current meta. Of course, you can pair the OH axe with something else than a sword, but your overall output (mobility, damage, control, survivability) is unlikely to reach the level of meta power builds anyway.

Note: comparing the skill with the axe AA is possible, but has issues. Firstly, only the damage is taken into account in the comparison, not the utility (finisher, adrenaline…). Secondly, the comparison suggests you equip a MH axe, which is damage-oriented, but lacks mobility, raising the issue of how you get close to your opponent (and keep him at hand) to apply the damage. OH axe has less pressure in that regard, because you can “naturally” complement it with a sword, which offers mobility, cripple and immobilize.

Thx for comments!

So the problems are situational prob, low damage prob, too many hits thus taking too long cast time, and in-harmony with making a combo with whirling axe since people do care of mobility but sword offers only short time of immob to let its final thrust and whirling axe all got heat and etc..

Thank you very much for info!

Elegie.3620:

I’ve been playing offhand axe a lot in PvP (see “the finisher” build in my sig, if interested). It is very fun to play, and has many good points, but it does have some issues as well. Is is also a misunderstood weapon, with a bad reputation – and many players tend to trust reputations rather than test by themselves.

The skill had (has) a bad reputation for many reasons. In the past, it did less damage (-17%) and its whirl finisher was broken. PvE players often don’t know there’s a 50% damage bonus in PvP, thus don’t even try playing it. The Whirling Axe stolen by the thief reflects projectiles, but the warrior’s does not.

The skill hits 15 times, which is great and no-so-great. It’s great because you can replenish adrenaline in a fast way, and benefit from the whirl finisher when standing on a combo field (situational though, because the warrior lacks combo fields). It’s not-so-great because each of this hit can trigger retaliation. Also, the overall damage is spread on all the hits – if you miss some, or don’t crit some, then the damage falls (if you hit/crit enough though, you can easily 10k+ in less than 2s, which is not bad DPS for PvP).

As to why it is not played at high level, I’d say it’s because players compare the GS to the sword/axe setup. The GS offers more mobility and has an evade; even if you don’t use Hundred Blades, you still hit hard. Sword/Axe has less mobility, but bring a burst (#3, possibly hard to place) and more soft control (countered by cleanses, blocks, teleports or immo-breaks). So the trade-off might not be worth it, especially in the current meta. Of course, you can pair the OH axe with something else than a sword, but your overall output (mobility, damage, control, survivability) is unlikely to reach the level of meta power builds anyway.

Note: comparing the skill with the axe AA is possible, but has issues. Firstly, only the damage is taken into account in the comparison, not the utility (finisher, adrenaline…). Secondly, the comparison suggests you equip a MH axe, which is damage-oriented, but lacks mobility, raising the issue of how you get close to your opponent (and keep him at hand) to apply the damage. OH axe has less pressure in that regard, because you can “naturally” complement it with a sword, which offers mobility, cripple and immobilize.

And thank you very much for the build! I will carefully look into it and test

Because the setup is simply bad.
Dual Strike is low damage with short duration of fury
and Whirling axe…Sure, if you compare it with Hundred blade as a high damage AoE cleave damage, which can be rarely used.

Greatsword has other skill for moving targets, 3 does really good damage with evade frame, 5 is higher damage too.

the other guy said sword 3 burst, Greatsword burst skill does the same with only bit lower damage but bigger AoE lower CD and gives good amount of fury.

used to be used for quick adren build in the beginning but later wars built it faster :P

I am actually very surprised they didn’t give it Projectile Destruction or Projectile Reflect. Would love to see that.

As was mentioned axe 5 isn’t strong in most cases. For cleaving downs and if u happen to get in a combo field it can be strong but it not worth it compared to the other weapon. Which kinda bring up another point. While some off hands r ok none r great. Unless u want to trait shield no one say I want that off hand and has to decide which main hand to take it at he other way around

I would rather have axe 5 differentiate from hundred blade, make it like rev sword 3 but single target and half the evade frame or something.

It brings DPS you dont need because Axe #1 is better, and fury is easily accessible for warriors.

so most people go with a defensive util.

If it reflected projectiles people might use it.

utility.

I love whirling axe, but its just not adding anything to your build.

offhand sword, 2sec projectile blocker 15sec cd (can trait for reflect)

offhand mace, 10stack cleaving vulnerability, 2sec KD 1200 range

shield, 1sec stun with 450 gap close, 3sec block (can trait for immobilize removal, reflect)

i don’t understand why they’re against making it a reflect

Justine.6351:

utility.

I love whirling axe, but its just not adding anything to your build.

offhand sword, 2sec projectile blocker 15sec cd (can trait for reflect)

offhand mace, 10stack cleaving vulnerability, 2sec KD 1200 range

shield, 1sec stun with 450 gap close, 3sec block (can trait for immobilize removal, reflect)

Yeah, I tested Whirling Axe for several matchs, but it really didn’t help since amulet is cleric so it couldn’t be able to make some viable damage. I guess I gotta focus on more CC with this build rather than damage since it is tanky that can endure incoming dmg even though CC fails and to let DPS teammate kill fast easier lol.

online.1278:

Justine.6351:

utility.

I love whirling axe, but its just not adding anything to your build.

offhand sword, 2sec projectile blocker 15sec cd (can trait for reflect)

offhand mace, 10stack cleaving vulnerability, 2sec KD 1200 range

shield, 1sec stun with 450 gap close, 3sec block (can trait for immobilize removal, reflect)

Yeah, I tested Whirling Axe for several matchs, but it really didn’t help since amulet is cleric so it couldn’t be able to make some viable damage. I guess I gotta focus on more CC with this build rather than damage since it is tanky that can endure incoming dmg even though CC fails and to let DPS teammate kill fast easier lol.

I wasn’t aware cleric warrior was a thing. But its cleric amulet that’s the reason of no dmg more than whirling axes. The skill deals dmg, but that’s all it does.

Problem with clerics is that toughness scaling is bad. In terms of effective health ( health pool + armor) ur better off with vitality. Against power builds it close but against condi vitality is far superior to toughness

i’ve been exclusively a pvper since beta and i’ve always loved whirling axe!
imho it was better when you could dodge while channeling it though,
the damage is still great now (i regularly see 12k+ in spvp), but throwing in evasion and 7k extra damage (2 reckless dodge crits) it used to be EPIC

Liewec.2896:

i’ve been exclusively a pvper since beta and i’ve always loved whirling axe!
imho it was better when you could dodge while channeling it though,
the damage is still great now (i regularly see 12k+ in spvp), but throwing in evasion and 7k extra damage (2 reckless dodge crits) it used to be EPIC

Yes losing evading actually hurt that skill alot. Attack while dodging was pretty cool offensive.

Low dmg,easily interrupted or evaded,killing yourself on retal or your enemy gaining distance untill it ends.Whirl reflecting projectiles Or being put in an evade state would make this skill atleast a bit more viable.Adding a cripple effect or immob even,currently it’s just weak and easy avoidable

Caedmon.6798:

Whirl reflecting projectiles Or being put in an evade state would make this skill atleast a bit more viable.Adding a cripple effect or immob even,currently it’s just weak and easy avoidable

A bit?! Aside from the cripple, any of those those things would make the skill ridiculously broken.

Allowing dodges might be alright, but the output combined with reckless dodge would probably be over the top damage-wise.

Reducing the number of hits but increasing the damage per hit would eliminate the retal problem, assuming it’s still a thing after the last damage buff.

I got a GS/SwAxe solo farming build and I use whirling axe all the time to tag mobs in big events.

Julie Yann.5379:

I got a GS/SwAxe solo farming build and I use whirling axe all the time to tag mobs in big events.

yeah all that speed and loot is glory ;-)

Infinite light/ Beacon of light ;-)

Caedmon.6798:

Low dmg,easily interrupted or evaded,killing yourself on retal or your enemy gaining distance untill it ends.Whirl reflecting projectiles Or being put in an evade state would make this skill atleast a bit more viable.Adding a cripple effect or immob even,currently it’s just weak and easy avoidable

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

If you execute the skill “as is”, of course it’s gonna be interrupted or evaded. But any decent warrior would prepare the skill a bit (stability, control if only cripple…) – like you’d do for any other significant skill / rotation. You can move while channeling the skill, which is something that can be easily taken advantage of.

The retaliation is a real issue. Hitting 15 times is also bad for sustained damage, because missed hits or non-crit hits reduce your overall damage output. However, in compensation, hitting 15 times is strong as a whirl finisher, and even stronger at replenishing adrenaline (ideal for burst-based builds). It’s a trade-off.

The skill has some issues, but it’s a good skill nevertheless, provided you adjust your rotations accordingly and don’t blindly use/spam it. Any buff would make it it overpowered, and would require a nerf otherwise (like reducing the damage).

This is coming from someone who thought the skill was trash for many years, without bothering to try it – then gave it a try on a whim, and realized it had more potential than originally thought. The loss of the synergy with Reckless Dodge did reduce the skill value a bit, though.

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

Purple Miku.7032:

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

It’s not for gaining event credit, it’s for getting more drops, especially in temple runs but
I have to agree with you about it’s usefulness. Aside from filling my bags with loot it is pretty much a useless skill. I wouldn’t take it anywhere other than event farming.

online.1278:

Just wonder, what is the problem, logically, for you to use whirling Axe? too risky while casting? or long cd? or just axe design looks bad? what would be reason?

In terms of PvP, of course.

thx!

In terms of PvP, of course

In terms of PvP

PvP

And then the PvE guy comes and says..

Purple Miku.7032:

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

Okay but for real, you know why Whirling Axe is great in PvP? Because defiant stance will heal retal AND whirling axe does something vs. blind spam. Come back and say auto-attack does anything vs. blinds please.

Purple Miku.7032:

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

I should have been more specific, sorry. My point is made in a PvP context, not a PvE context (or even a WvW one). In PvP, and PvP only, Axe #5 receives a 50% damage bonus, compared to other game modes.

As the damage of Axe #5 may easily represent more than half of your opponent’s health, I consider it significant. Taking into account other factors, such as adrenaline building or combos, my opinion (based on several hundred of PvP games with this setup) is that developing and applying rotations based around Axe #5 can be quite effective. YMMV.

less dps and animation you can see from a mile away.

Elegie.3620:

Purple Miku.7032:

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

I should have been more specific, sorry. My point is made in a PvP context, not a PvE context (or even a WvW one). In PvP, and PvP only, Axe #5 receives a 50% damage bonus, compared to other game modes.

As the damage of Axe #5 may easily represent more than half of your opponent’s health, I consider it significant. Taking into account other factors, such as adrenaline building or combos, my opinion (based on several hundred of PvP games with this setup) is that developing and applying rotations based around Axe #5 can be quite effective. YMMV.

The only way you can fully land this skill is to skullcrack someone or pindown him,1on1 speaking.In a 1vx scenario there’s too much evades,blocks,blinds,retal,interrupts and able to port out /stealth and gain distance going on to ever make this skill viable as it currently is.Just to use it as an adren filler shouldnt be the purpose of the skill.Look at thieves daggerstorm for instance which gives stabi on a 3 sec interval/bleed and cripple and reflecting projectiles on top of that the daggers can bounce between targets and ( from wiki ) One foe may be hit directly by up to 8 projectiles, at the rate of about one per second. The number of hits is inversely related to the distance between the foe and the thief, with one dagger hit from the skill’s maximum 900 range distance, and 8 hits while standing directly on target.
Now compare this to our whirl.

Caedmon.6798:

Elegie.3620:

Purple Miku.7032:

Elegie.3620:

The damage of the skill is not low at all, it’s one of the highest damage available to the warrior in PvP. I’ve hit up to 14k with it already, don’t know why you’d say this is low.

Because it’s channeled… autoattacking deals more damage than it.

If you’re using the skill for its damage, you’re doing it wrong. Its only use comes from building adrenaline if for whatever reason no other method of doing so is available. I don’t really feel that tagging mobs is a good enough reason to call it a useful weapon since it’s not like it is very difficult to gain event credit without it, but some people seem to like it for that as well.

I should have been more specific, sorry. My point is made in a PvP context, not a PvE context (or even a WvW one). In PvP, and PvP only, Axe #5 receives a 50% damage bonus, compared to other game modes.

As the damage of Axe #5 may easily represent more than half of your opponent’s health, I consider it significant. Taking into account other factors, such as adrenaline building or combos, my opinion (based on several hundred of PvP games with this setup) is that developing and applying rotations based around Axe #5 can be quite effective. YMMV.

The only way you can fully land this skill is to skullcrack someone or pindown him,1on1 speaking.In a 1vx scenario there’s too much evades,blocks,blinds,retal,interrupts and able to port out /stealth and gain distance going on to ever make this skill viable as it currently is.Just to use it as an adren filler shouldnt be the purpose of the skill.Look at thieves daggerstorm for instance which gives stabi on a 3 sec interval/bleed and cripple and reflecting projectiles on top of that the daggers can bounce between targets and ( from wiki ) One foe may be hit directly by up to 8 projectiles, at the rate of about one per second. The number of hits is inversely related to the distance between the foe and the thief, with one dagger hit from the skill’s maximum 900 range distance, and 8 hits while standing directly on target.
Now compare this to our whirl.

?
everything is your post made me giggle.

Caedmon.6798:

The only way you can fully land this skill is to skullcrack someone or pindown him,1on1 speaking.In a 1vx scenario there’s too much evades,blocks,blinds,retal,interrupts and able to port out /stealth and gain distance going on to ever make this skill viable as it currently is.Just to use it as an adren filler shouldnt be the purpose of the skill.

As a matter of fact, I agree with that analysis. I very rarely hit all 15 strikes of the Whirling Axe, and when I manage to do so, it’s indeed thanks to successful skullcrack. In average, what I consistently get is about 8-9k damage, and 1 bar of adrenaline. I usually prepare the skill with stability and cripple (sword #2, good to close in). The short CD of Whirling Axe (15s untraited) allows for quite a sustained aggression.

While I welcome 1v1, I rarely do 1vX, because I run Berserker and it’ better for the team if I seek and +1 elsewhere. In group fights (XvX), the Whirling Axe can shine a lot though – damage can be applied to many targets (players and adds), adrenaline is replenished at a faster rate, and you can combo with friendly combo fields.

Caedmon.6798:

Look at thieves daggerstorm for instance which gives stabi on a 3 sec interval/bleed and cripple and reflecting projectiles on top of that the daggers can bounce between targets and ( from wiki ) One foe may be hit directly by up to 8 projectiles, at the rate of about one per second. The number of hits is inversely related to the distance between the foe and the thief, with one dagger hit from the skill’s maximum 900 range distance, and 8 hits while standing directly on target.
Now compare this to our whirl.

There’s no denying the Daggerstorm is a nice skill, but it’s an elite with 90s CD, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. One could compare the stolen Whirling Axe of the thief with our own, to advocate for some buff (reflecting or destroying projectiles). But the thief can only acquire the skill against a warrior class, and the CD of his steal reduces the frequency of this acquisition – something that could reasonably legitimate the difference.

I’m not saying Axe #5 is the ultimate skill of the warrior, nor that Sword/Axe is superior to the GS! However, I do believe that Sword/Axe is a potent setup, unfairly frowned at by other warriors.

Elegie.3620:

Caedmon.6798:

The only way you can fully land this skill is to skullcrack someone or pindown him,1on1 speaking.In a 1vx scenario there’s too much evades,blocks,blinds,retal,interrupts and able to port out /stealth and gain distance going on to ever make this skill viable as it currently is.Just to use it as an adren filler shouldnt be the purpose of the skill.

As a matter of fact, I agree with that analysis. I very rarely hit all 15 strikes of the Whirling Axe, and when I manage to do so, it’s indeed thanks to successful skullcrack. In average, what I consistently get is about 8-9k damage, and 1 bar of adrenaline. I usually prepare the skill with stability and cripple (sword #2, good to close in). The short CD of Whirling Axe (15s untraited) allows for quite a sustained aggression.

While I welcome 1v1, I rarely do 1vX, because I run Berserker and it’ better for the team if I seek and +1 elsewhere. In group fights (XvX), the Whirling Axe can shine a lot though – damage can be applied to many targets (players and adds), adrenaline is replenished at a faster rate, and you can combo with friendly combo fields.

Caedmon.6798:

Look at thieves daggerstorm for instance which gives stabi on a 3 sec interval/bleed and cripple and reflecting projectiles on top of that the daggers can bounce between targets and ( from wiki ) One foe may be hit directly by up to 8 projectiles, at the rate of about one per second. The number of hits is inversely related to the distance between the foe and the thief, with one dagger hit from the skill’s maximum 900 range distance, and 8 hits while standing directly on target.
Now compare this to our whirl.

There’s no denying the Daggerstorm is a nice skill, but it’s an elite with 90s CD, so I don’t think the comparison is valid. One could compare the stolen Whirling Axe of the thief with our own, to advocate for some buff (reflecting or destroying projectiles). But the thief can only acquire the skill against a warrior class, and the CD of his steal reduces the frequency of this acquisition – something that could reasonably legitimate the difference.

I’m not saying Axe #5 is the ultimate skill of the warrior, nor that Sword/Axe is superior to the GS! However, I do believe that Sword/Axe is a potent setup, unfairly frowned at by other warriors.

I know dagger has a higher cd but i just put it in there to show what can be done with the skill by adding either of the buffs that dagger has,hell i wouldnt even mind an increase in cd on it if the skill is being made more viable to use,like buff it up to 25 sec cd and give it 2 extra effects ( cripple/stabi/reflect/evading ) either of those imo.People have been asking to buff whirl for ages now.The only time i still see a warri run offhand axe is when it notice it’sa fairly new player or just some guy trying stuff out and quickly realizing whirl isn’t worth it.

Daze yourself for 3.5 seconds, suffer 4-5k damage from Retaliation and open yourself to get rekt by power block Mesmers while doing less damage than Axe 1 chain.

only use is for thieves in shadow refuge lol

Obviously we all want Axe 5 to reflect projectiles, but the chances of getting that are slim.

Awhile back someone suggested adding cripple to Axe 5, which might help keep enemies within range for the full channel. But that doesn’t solve the underlying problems of Axe 5, which include the long channel and garbage DPS.

Also the fact that you can’t dodge during Axe 5 anymore… which means that casting Axe 5 basically begs your opponent to daze, stun, or otherwise unleash a massive burst on you.

I really can’t think of a good use for Axe 5 in PvP other than activating whirl finishers, which are weak anyway.

I like using whirling axe in the longbow’s firefield. Just feels cool.

give Axe#5 AOE pull and maybe it will get some use

Only pro I see from axe5 is higher chance of proc-ing sigil and adrenaline gain. Way too easy to run out of it without proper cc.

it’s been three years. Still thieves have a better version of the skill we have. Axe 5 needs to reflect or it will be forever bad.

Wonder how many years will go by before they finally decide to make off hand axe viable in pvp.

I tried, it just doesn’t work in terms of failure of making a combo with whiling axe. It just really do nothing as compared to thief’s one. and that actual superiority makes me not to use whirling axe-_

The only place I ever made it half way work was in LB f1

I think the only way to popular uing whirling axe is actually combo. but unfortunately there isn;t idea of making a combo with whirling axe.

in short:
Lower hits than axe auto-chain
No stability makes it easier to interrupt
No projectile deflection
Hits 15times which means any enemy with retaliation is like killing joke

I always liked the animation of the Whirling Axe, but it is so obvious and so easily avoided by the opponent that it’s not worth equipping.