Guild Wars 2

Can we warriors just calm down with our kitten to dps numbers and actually focus on what we can contribute to the team, even if just being able to stay alive?

I am dead tired of seeing glass warriors e v e r y w h e r e . It’s time to let go. Let’s try something else.

Peace & love.

Gasoline.2570:

Let’s try something else.

Peace & love.

Why?

If you want group support + tankiness bring a guard, an engi, an ele spec’d for it.
If you want condition damage bring a thief, an engi, a ranger, a necro spec’d for it.

Of course you’re talking about dungeons and really it doesn’t matter what anyone specs for in those as long as the players in the group are competent.

In other areas of the game the only spec that performs at a truly competitive level is…
what you’re sick of.

If every other option wasn’t sub-par then you might see more deviation.

And for the record I hate that warrior spec too, but it works and trying to force a condition spec’d warrior to perform at the same level in W3/TPvP as a glass cannon (rifle or GS, take your pick… or both at once) is a lesson in frustration and so much gold spent testing and tweaking and more testing and nights of utter disgust followed by more tweaking and so forth.

My personal bias is that if the class/spec gets pwnd in 1v1’s it’s a crap spec regardless of what it brings to a group. If 1v1 is balanced then group balance follows innately – team FPS games show this as the players behind the keys make the difference, not the class/gear selection and EVERYONE is perfectly capable in 1v1’s or 1v matches purely depending on skill*

If that’s the case about so many warriors in dungeons being glass cannons. Then Anet might change warriors so that glass cannon spec isn’t the only spec to participate in dungeons etc.

Brutalistik.6473:

If that’s the case about so many warriors in dungeons being glass cannons. Then Anet might change warriors so that glass cannon spec isn’t the only spec to participate in dungeons etc.

It’s not though. Really in dungeons you can, and people HAVE, rolled in whatever random spec they feel like (even unspec’d) and practically auto attacked, dodged and healed their way to completion. And yes in EXP mode for token farming. 90% of the success of the dungeon is about player competency really. Dodge the right ability, position correctly, stop attacking when X happens, start attacking again when Y happens.

Most of the spec viability issues comes down to PVP.

Also if your group is good on reviving downs quickly when/if they occur and has proper dodge/positional usage then full on DPS player spec’s are optimal for speed running. And speed running is the bees knees.

In my opinion most important part of being glass-cannon is that you won’t get one hit. This allows you to make a slight mistake, start playing more passively and recover. Naturally Warriors seem to get this with no investment in defensive stats.

Also when stuff starts to hit hard melees are having hard time., regardless of spec.

Brutalistik.6473:

If that’s the case about so many warriors in dungeons being glass cannons. Then Anet might change warriors so that glass cannon spec isn’t the only spec to participate in dungeons etc.

Unfortunately the way they tend to do that is to nerf the one good spec we have in order to promote other specs. Not make other specs actually worthwhile to use.

There are good glass cannon warriors out there who can do dungeons effectively, but they don’t seem too common I’m having to rez zerker warriors 2-3 times every boss, it gets a little tiring.

It’s not just a warrior thing though.

A good warrior knows when to hit the enemy, and when to stand back.

a warrior can do so much dmg as a dps spec it makes encounters much faster. now poor players is another story, but until you have a dps group that can clear encounters in less than half the time you really don’t know how solid a dps group can be.

dps is the way to go in pve, you add in what support you can sacrificing as little dps as possible. there is no boss that can’t be dodged by a glass build if the player knows what hes doing.

a warrior that survives but does half dmg of a dps spec is a fail imo. the worst groups are ones were ppl stay alive, but it takes longer each fight.

I agree with the general response in this thread, nothing wrong with glass cannons, just the people playing them don’t seem to fully understand the survivability aspect of the role as it is much more active than just pressing a skill or having some traits set up. I only tend to run with more organised groups of people I know and honestly if you have one player playing a solid support role like a guardian there is no issue bringing a decent glass cannon player, if anything the insane damage they bring can be very useful provided they don’t get themselves killed – warriors especially do mad damage.

The only other point I would make is if less people specced glass cannon, you would still be complaining about bad warriors on the forums, just for different reasons. Either trying to comprehend how a player playing a support role still manages to get themselves killed all the time or maybe complaining about how everyone runs support roles and can’t hurt anything/ takes ages to kill mobs. Not to criticise you OP as I know your pain, I think I have just accepted the fact that these players cause problems because they just don’t play very well rather than necessarily playing the wrong spec. All there is to do at this point really is either try and help them play better (which is usually met with hostility from them) or just find some other like minded players and just run with regulars.

Not sure what you issue, I am doing fine with my glass cannon Warrior. Though in otherways during leveling up playing dungeon. I see countless full support level 80 exoctic dies 3 times by each boss encounter.

Choko.6821:

Not sure what you issue, I am doing fine with my glass cannon Warrior. Though in otherways during leveling up playing dungeon. I see countless full support level 80 exoctic dies 3 times by each boss encounter.

I find a lot of people claim to be full support etc that are not. Maybe they were just unskilled or not used to the amount of aggro that spec causes.

Brutalistik.6473:

If that’s the case about so many warriors in dungeons being glass cannons. Then Anet might change warriors so that glass cannon spec isn’t the only spec to participate in dungeons etc.

Glass cannon is not the only viable build for warriors….!

Shouts healer might stacker, is the best build for a dungeon warrior hands down.
it has great group healing & group condition management capabilities coupled with the survivability of a tank plus comparable damage to a glass cannon.

Spec: 0/0/25/30/15
Armor: pow/vit/tough
jewelry: knight jewelry
Utilities: OMM, FGJ, SIO.
Elite: signet of rage or banner your choice.

Weapons: greatsword/longbow
spare weapons: hammer, rifle, shield, mace

Sigils: superior sigil of battle for the primary might stacking weapons.
superior sigil of air, superior sigil of fire and superior sigil of hydromancy for other weapons situational usage.

Glass cannon is the worse spec for a warrior to run in a dungeon, every time I see these I don’t even bother getting them in my party.

Glass cannon is fine if you have a good dedicated healer/tank. Playing as a Warrior support, I love having 2 cannons for their insane damage output with good survivability. I’d take a Warrior glass cannon to fill a damage role over anything else. Pair that with some form of CC and an off-tank (i.e. Engineer and ‘cannon’ Guardian) and you get a wonderful party. It’s all about the utilization of the cannon players

Good points, but if you’re pugging, chances are, being a glass is hampering everyone.

Gasoline.2570:

Good points, but if you’re pugging, chances are, being a glass is hampering everyone.

Key word is pugging. If you care you wouldn’t to be honest. But dungeons are dungeons, should be nothing to get worked up about.

If you can’t handle your build then better use something to cover up your mistakes.

i think it all boils down to how good the piloting skills the player has.. i roll a glass cannon my self, i contribute much to my team with my DPS, and further more i can stay alive just like any other player.. as long as we have team work or listen to the leader, once you know your roles its pretty much a breeze..

There’s nothing wrong with glass builds in dungeons, if you know what you are doing. That said, not everybody does.

And when you do not posses the skill to live and fight, but you really want to keep the feel of DAMAGE EVERYWHERE…. Stay glass, get a different weapon.

A glass hammer might deal less overall damage, but the CC it brings can be very potent and the individual crits are nothing to sneeze at either. A glass with a warhorn can dodge more often, a glass with a shield can save your kitten more often than not.

Carrying something that can provide support/defense, even better if it benefits more than just you, in your offset will drastically increase your ability to survive despite your current lack of skill.

Glass hammer / axe + mace is a good example. Popping into the fray with hammer CC and good damage, and switching to axe to mow down the survivors or in a boss battle. Keep a rifle with you just in case and you’ll do fine in dungeons.

TLDR: If you keep dying as a glass cannon, but you want to stay a glass cannon, consider getting a defensive/support weapon in your offset to stay alive and/or help the group.

If i’m pugging something hard, I’ll run with a shout heal build w/soldier runes. Shouts heal is the safest way to pug since you don’t know if your gonna be the only melee/heavy class, and you might need to be completely self-reliant.

If i’m pugging something easy and/or running with guild its glass cannon time!

Well those guys might not be glass cannons.

You know I’m rolling a WvW build with longbow – warhorn [for escape].
I’m using the Karma armors which gives Power,Toughness and Vitality.
Equipped with tough-vit runes (!)
My jewelry are power-prec so i get my dmg from it.

But sometimes at dungeons, I die like a glass cannon. Like a kitten glass cannon.
So If I would want to get more def- survivability i would need to dismiss slowly my damage to almost zero.

So warrior is kinda feel like a glass cannon at PvE when you have the aggro, in my opinion

p.s Maybe I am only the one who suck kitten :C

I was specced Full Tank/support since launch because I’ve always been a main tank in other games. A-net took away TAUNTING so there really is no point to go tank spec. I have run so many dungeons but I really dont feel like I contribute much to the group. I cant save my friends when they are getting killed, we cant TAUNT, we cant PULL mobs. Sure I was hard to kill and the last man standing but I had to watch my friends get killed while I try and DPS as a tank. All a DPS warrior brings to the group is larger Banner radius and they add regen to the banners. We dont get Aegis like gaurdian, we dont give protection. You are just dead weight and would serve the group much more if you put out more DPS to kill the enemy faster. Until Tank spec is looked at and changed there is no reason to go anything else.

Glass cannon warriors can survive any dungeon as long as they:
a) know the fights
b) can dodge most large damage in a reasonable way
c) have a reliable way of removing conditions
d) have good enough regen, healing and health leech to mitigate the regular enemy attacks (not the big ones) – this includes healing shouts/food/sigils/traits
e) know when to disengage

I feel that C and D are especially underlooked

Gasoline.2570:

Why so many glass warriors in dungeons?

This is related to an issue that many modern MMOs have: the solo-viable leveling gameplay doesn’t teach players to tackle group content.

There is no reward for using anything other than glass cannon builds while leveling up, only added inconvenience if following a different personal preference. Only Orr and the karka begin to teach caution and leaving a wider margin for error by increasing the amount of time you’re not in control of the fights though I don’t really like how it’s done. Mostly though PvE players have to learn “dungeon only gameplay” and those who are not dedicated to dungeoneering will be reluctant to develop separate “dungeon only” gear or builds.

I’ve felt that WvW focused gameplay transferred well into dungeons, on the other hand. In my case I have a glass cannon~ish trait setup with a heavy dose of secondary defensive stats. This buys time to stay and be effective in melee combat, but a secondary plan for contributing from range – or quickly cycling back into melee after retreat and recovery – is also necessary.

So, simply put, people are trying to be glass cannons because it worked for them in the past. And for some it can work in dungeons too depending on circumstances but for many pick-up groupers it won’t.

Shifu.4321:

Glass cannon warriors can survive any dungeon as long as they:
a) know the fights
b) can dodge most large damage in a reasonable way
c) have a reliable way of removing conditions
d) have good enough regen, healing and health leech to mitigate the regular enemy attacks (not the big ones) – this includes healing shouts/food/sigils/traits
e) know when to disengage

I feel that C and D are especially underlooked

that would be a healing tank spec

Ultimately the reason is because warriors aren’t very tanky without a shield. Guardians have a lot more options for survivability. That and all the people telling newcomers to use gsword spec’d for damage.

the moidart.3612:

Ultimately the reason is because warriors aren’t very tanky without a shield. Guardians have a lot more options for survivability. That and all the people telling newcomers to use gsword spec’d for damage.

The only reason people tell newcomers this is so they don’t waste time going through all the spec’s that “seem fun” or “might be viable”, which are far more fun styles for sure, only to come out the other side realizing that as everyone gets better at the other classes the only warrior spec that really keeps up is some variation of GS + X. Or: How can I set up a HB? Stun? Immobilize? Knockdown? Hmm, so much variety.

:(

Granted most of it came about from playing the other classes spec’d to fulfill a certain specific role, then comparing the output to what the warrior does spec’d to fulfill that same certain role. Such as condi-damage. Or bunker. Or roamer. And in the end the roamer is the one with the most viability potential.

Ele, Necro, Engi and Guard bunkers poop all over warrior bunkers if you equal out the skill factor between the players. Mechanically they’re superior for that role.

Necro, Ranger, Engi, Thieves fulfilling a condi-damage role poop all over the warrior mechanics again if you remove the skill factor from the equation and assume an equal level between each player.

Back to that whole “Jack of all trades, master of none…. and desperately seeking purpose in the competitive hierarchy” mess that warriors are in.

Sadly the best thing warriors seem suited for in one way or another is the noob-slayer. Whether through rifle crits or landing that HB to score a kill we’re basically the class that most strongly points out “Yep, found me a noob. Hey buddy, go into your options and bind dodge to a key. Put a stunbreak on your bar. There ya go little buddy, you’re on your way.”

warriors “glass cannon” is actually less squishy than other classes “tank” specc/equip

part of the issue here is the continuing misconception that warrior == tank.

warrior != tank in GW2.

warrior ~= combat specialist

that means either being IN the combat or AIDING the combat in any way possible to achieve a victory harder/better/faster.

In previous EQ-mold MMO, that means tanky-spanky; let the dps face roll while you shrug off dmg like a kitten in a milk bowl.

In GW2 that means bring utility…and, if some of your cookie-cutter brains haven’t exploded into a million furballs yet, DPS in GW2 is just another utility.

The reason that glass cannon build “suck” in PvE dungeons is, as Ksielvin has noted, not-so-experienced players breeze through PvE with their boomstick builds, watching the kitten fly without experiencing the complicated dynamics of GW2 group content.

Then, they either come here and cry foul that their class sucks and isn’t viable in group content; OR, they find a non-DPS utility build and come here and complain that glass cannons suck and that GW2 has ruined the image of warriors; OR, (and least common of the three) learns from their game play and realizes the strengths and weaknesses of each kind of build and then brings the Pwntown to kittenville regardless of where they are playing because they aren’t narrow-minded Odi’s running into closed screen doors all the time.

warrior profession kittens all over your face.

when you go to tank your spank, use a gentle paw, a piece of advice for kittens who tend to rub it raw.

P.S. don’t forget your mittens. Oh those poor little kittens who forget their mittens…

as much as i love my sunrise, it sits in my invintory during dungeon runs…

GS is NOT the weapon of choice for dungeons

Most of the trash mob fights in most dungeons can be tanked.

Warriors CAN tank many (but not all) of the boss fights as well.

take butcher in HOTW for example, being able to “TANK” him (which i define as hold in 1 spot with aggro on you for most or even all of the fight) makes the fight so much easier for the rest of the party.

for fotm boss fights that can be “Tanked” include: mossman, ice brood shaman, cultist both fights, jellyfish, 1st dredge dude (dont really count though since anyone can stand there and beat on him), both boss fights on asura fractal (just dont tank the bunny, hes mean)

really the grawl fractal and last boss on dredge fractal are the only one where the 2 boss fights have to be short burst dps or ranged, also the ascalonian captian on higher fractals due to his aoe agony although i havent gotten to 20 agony resist yet to see if he can in fact be tanked, last boss on grawl fractal was also tankable before agony set in, again i wonder how much a difference agony resist will make here.

I don’t understand why there is need to tank stuff. So that everyone else can auto-attack from range while browsing forums?
GS is a good PvE weapon, even in dungeons.