Guild Wars 2

Hello,

The following is a Sword/Sword+Hammer condition build, optimizing control and confusion, leveraging Body Blow and Distracting Strikes.

It is more dynamic than usual condition builds, so possibly more appealing to action-oriented players than the “cheesy” Sword/Sword+Longbow standard setup.

Build (gw2skills): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAscSjMdQjHWFCmdApIGICsrM8BCa6XY6FDsAwHsnB-TVyCABA8AAU4IAglyvLV/Z59Hk4QAon+gxUCO9JAgQAKmDA-w

Guide (intothemists): http://intothemists.com/guides/6352-the_tormentor

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE08vBnapz0

I’m an average player, the video is just a build demo, not a skill demo – I beg for your indulgence

Have fun.

Seems pretty good. I ll try it out for sure! Is it viable if I change a few of the rapid pieces for carrion?

oh sweet, someone actually tested this build. i wanted to but i wasnt down to buy the perplexity runes…anyhow, how those the build perform?
the first fight look kind of tough with that necro, especially since all the condi removal you have is brawler’s recovery, berserkers stance and healing signet.
it all seems the build can be pretty kiteable since there is no longbow and even with all the toughness did you burst often by other classes? or did weakness played a major role on keeping you alive?

overall would you recommend this “dynamic” build over the regular lb/ss condi build?
since apparently everything is cheesy outside of gs/x lol

Hello,

First, thank you or your interest!

thaniretouni.4762:

Seems pretty good. I ll try it out for sure! Is it viable if I change a few of the rapid pieces for carrion?

I don’t know, but I think it’d be okay, depending on how many pieces you exchange. What’s important, I think, is to keep the Runes of Perplexity, if you can.

A few words regarding the Rabid vs. Carrion stats:

• Precision: we need some to optimize the Arms line (Precise Strikes and Rending Strikes), as well as the on-crit sigils, but I’m not sure about how much is required.
• Toughness: we have no Endure Pain and only one block, so passive defense looks necessary to me. However, the build inflicts a lot of Weakness, which not only helps with the attack (the opponent dodges less) but also with the defense (the opponent glances), so again I’m not sure about how much is required.
• Vitality: the build is weak to conditions, so more Vitality can be a very good thing.
• Power: the stat is very good, it can help with the hammer quite a bit (the hammer isn’t a condition weapon at first), and possibly for sword #3.

Have fun!

Hello Darkaheart,

Thank you for your interest! I’ve used the Arms specialization here

darkaheart.4265:

oh sweet, someone actually tested this build. i wanted to but i wasnt down to buy the perplexity runes…anyhow, how those the build perform?

It’s not bad at all. A lot of players are used to spam their skills rotations, so Confusion can be quite a hard counter. Each time you land an interrupt, there’s a good probability that the victory is yours.

The runes of Perplexity are quite expensive, unfortunately. I’d bought them when they came out, so it was quite affordable at the time. Right now? I’m not sure I would buy them just for the warrior – although the arrival of the Revenant would make the investment worth it, provided you mount them on an ascended armor.

darkaheart.4265:

the first fight look kind of tough with that necro, especially since all the condi removal you have is brawler’s recovery, berserkers stance and healing signet.

Yes, indeed. The build is melee, so kiting classes, and classes laying things on the ground, can indeed make the fight difficult.

darkaheart.4265:

it all seems the build can be pretty kiteable since there is no longbow and even with all the toughness did you burst often by other classes? or did weakness played a major role on keeping you alive?

I’ve found that resisting enemy bursts was quite doable. I don’t know what part can be attributed to Toughness, or to Weakness, though. Both look necessary to me, given the lack of physical invulnerabilities. Also, the build has a lot of hard control, which can seriously restrain the opponent’s rotations.

darkaheart.4265:

overall would you recommend this “dynamic” build over the regular lb/ss condi build?
since apparently everything is cheesy outside of gs/x lol

In terms of efficiency, the build brings confusion, and against most players, this can win you a fight in a matter of seconds. However, against experienced players (which can read the telegraphed skills of the hammer and properly manage their conditions), I think that the Longbow version should be stronger.

In terms of game play, it’s quite different from a Sword/Sword+Longbow build, so if you’re into hard control and interrupts (as I am), this build can be quite enjoyable to play.

~11 gold is not that bad for a good rune. I like the sound of this build, but I might go Sinister instead so I can keep the direct damage on my GS and swap to hammer for the sweet, sweet perplexity. Or possibly even M+S or M+M/H if I was feeling really creative. Thanks for this! I’ve been looking for a new way to play my Warrior. Poor guy has barely been touched since the specialization change.

Hello Ark,

Thank you for your interest

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

~11 gold is not that bad for a good rune. I like the sound of this build, but I might go Sinister instead so I can keep the direct damage on my GS and swap to hammer for the sweet, sweet perplexity. Or possibly even M+S or M+M/H if I was feeling really creative. Thanks for this! I’ve been looking for a new way to play my Warrior. Poor guy has barely been touched since the specialization change.

Don’t hesitate to share your findings! Going hybrid would make a lot of sense here, although I’m not sure about the best way to do it. That Body Blow competes with Forceful Greatsword and Distracting Strikes with Berserker’s Power looks a bit unfortunate in many scenarios.

Elegie.3620:

Hello Ark,

Thank you for your interest

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

~11 gold is not that bad for a good rune. I like the sound of this build, but I might go Sinister instead so I can keep the direct damage on my GS and swap to hammer for the sweet, sweet perplexity. Or possibly even M+S or M+M/H if I was feeling really creative. Thanks for this! I’ve been looking for a new way to play my Warrior. Poor guy has barely been touched since the specialization change.

Don’t hesitate to share your findings! Going hybrid would make a lot of sense here, although I’m not sure about the best way to do it. That Body Blow competes with Forceful Greatsword and Distracting Strikes with Berserker’s Power looks a bit unfortunate in many scenarios.

This is not so much an issue for me, since I was a 0/2/6/0/6 BM Warrior before the specialization patch and had access to neither of those traits

So earlier i watched your video on my phone and wasnt sure if it really looked viable but now that im home i played it again 1080p 24" monitor and the first thing i notice was the language lmao it has nothing to do with it but im just curious to know what language is that? :P
i also noticed all the fights where in EotM, for what i know a lot of players just karma farm so i kind of doubt any good roamers or experience players would go there.
usually player base skill, pvp>wvw>EotM ? pve

…how did you do vs thief? i usually dont last long with my condi and they mostly rekt me if its a experience player, especially since i have to be fast with my mouse and click on them so my bow can actually hit them and when i get too close and use flurry they usually steal from me and counter me with that whirl attack but its too strong to just stand there and let flurry do the work or i wont even dare to swap to bow because they reflect everything

darkaheart.4265:

So earlier i watched your video on my phone and wasnt sure if it really looked viable but now that im home i played it again 1080p 24" monitor and the first thing i notice was the language lmao it has nothing to do with it but im just curious to know what language is that? :P

This is French! I play on the Jade Sea server, in Europe.

darkaheart.4265:

i also noticed all the fights where in EotM, for what i know a lot of players just karma farm so i kind of doubt any good roamers or experience players would go there.
usually player base skill, pvp>wvw>EotM ? pve

It’s true that the level in EotM is generally lower than in WvW maps, in terms of roaming. I still go there, because I like the map, and there’s no queue in it (on Jade Sea, in prime time, there are about 20 people queuing for any map).

As for the ranking you gave, I think it’s broadly accurate, but many players don’t play a single mode and permeate many categories, if not all. I’ve found that good roamers were usually fairly good PvPers. I feel that pure players of a certain category, by restricting their playing environment, restrict the type of situations to which they can be exposed, thus limiting their opportunities to learn and grow as a player.

darkaheart.4265:

…how did you do vs thief? i usually dont last long with my condi and they mostly rekt me if its a experience player, especially since i have to be fast with my mouse and click on them so my bow can actually hit them and when i get too close and use flurry they usually steal from me and counter me with that whirl attack but its too strong to just stand there and let flurry do the work or i wont even dare to swap to bow because they reflect everything

I have yet to meet enough condi thieves, but usual D/P berserker thieves are rarely a problem when in 1v1. In 1v2s though, paired with a second thief, a mesmer, or a condi tank, just forget it.

Thieves have big burst, but they’re glassy. As a berserker warrior, 3-4 strikes can kill them, so it’s simply a matter of timing it with the stances. As a condition warrior, things are more difficult since you don’t have a condition burst, and have to endure until your conditions do their job. IIRC, you play in Sinister gear, so thieves might be a natural counter to you (you deal more pressure, but in exchange are more glassy)

The build I’ve proposed here has an easier time against them, because not only you can keep the opponent under Weakness, but it also has a condition burst brought by the confusion. You can inflict up to 9 stacks of confusion with one single interruption, meaning a solid 3-4k damage per skill activation (plus the passive condition damage). A player auto-attacking 3 times would take 10k+ damage… And a thief performing the usual Black Powder + Heartseeker x times, would suffer quite a bit.

EDIT: clicking on a thief to select it is too slow IMHO, why not just tab when he reveals himself? I don’t know how you’ve configured your target selection model in your settings menu, but in my case, tabbing automatically selects the thief.

Have you considered mace instead of hammer?
Either mace/mace or mace/shield. Either combo would provide CC on a shorter cooldown than hammer, which will allow you to proc your condition traits more frequently. And it would add some blocks to your build for more survivability.

If you could find a satisfying way to swap the Defense line in, you could pick up either the shield trait or mace trait (or both) depending on what weapon set you go for. And there’s other good traits that could synergies with this build in that line.

I’ve been playing a sword/shield mace/sword power build lately that’s pretty fun. Been considering trying a condi version with the interrupt traits.

Hello Arewn,

Thank you for your interest!

Arewn.2368:

Have you considered mace instead of hammer?
Either mace/mace or mace/shield. Either combo would provide CC on a shorter cooldown than hammer, which will allow you to proc your condition traits more frequently. And it would add some blocks to your build for more survivability.

If you could find a satisfying way to swap the Defense line in, you could pick up either the shield trait or mace trait (or both) depending on what weapon set you go for. And there’s other good traits that could synergies with this build in that line.

I’ve been playing a sword/shield mace/sword power build lately that’s pretty fun. Been considering trying a condi version with the interrupt traits.

Yes, that is definitely an interesting option. I actually have a condition build based on Strength, Defense and Discipline, using dual sword and Mace/Shield, and the Runes of the Guardian instead of the runes of Perplexity. It works very decently, so I believe Mace/Shield (or Mace/X) could indeed be used in the current build as well.

As you say, one would probably need to swap Arms for Defense, gaining more synergies (Shield Mastery, Cleansing Ire working nicely with the high Toughness etc…). I thought a bit about whether to use the Hammer or Mace/Shield, and finally decided to give the combo Hammer/Arms a go:

• I had never played it before, and was quite excited to try it – Hammer in a condition build, and a “PvP” build without the Defense line,
• I thought that the trade of the defense brought by Mace/Shield for the group-oriented interrupts of the Hammer was acceptable. Gaining access to the Hammer F1 was a big part of the decision (easier to land than Mace F1, interesting for mobility).
• I liked how Arms would optimize condition damage, especially the Bleeding part, making the Hammer less “useless” in a condition build (because of Precise Strikes, and the Bloodlust working with Body Blow).

If you try a condition build with Mace/X, don’t hesitate to share your findings. I’d be quite interested, and will probably give it another go myself soon enough.

Cheers.

I like the idea, but in roaming I found this setup not to work as I hoped.

You only have 1 block that can be countered by a melee hit (unlike the blocks from say, an engineer). You have less regen then a warrior picking Defense, and no auto-EP. And on top of that, your own condition mitigation is very lackluster after Zerk stance runs out. In short, you have no survivability. 3400 armor is nothing in the current meta, and is also completely outclassed by protection uptime (which we can’t get). Double Endure Pain and a lot of weakness application are better options here.

You will be missing out on the strongest condition there is; burning.

You don’t have movement condi mitigation either, except for immobilise. But chill and cripple will almost completely nullify your damage application if your leaps are on cooldown.

Some advice then.

I actually did have more success with Carrion gear. Hammer and sword both have great power skills, and you get a lot of flat damage boosters in this build (up to 35% with hammer, and 15% with sword, not counting vulnerability application). With decent crit chance (get some sinister), your auto-attacks will often crit for a noteworthy 1,5-2k.

Krait runes, thus taking out Rampage for SoR and taking restorative strength instead of Peak Performance allows you to stack insanely long lasting bleeds. This is what gives you pressure, even if you’re fighting a kite-heavy opponent. Perplexity can give you a confusion burst, but half the rune is worth nothing when your opponent has stability, whereas Krait always performs. And if you’re opponent can cleanse the high confusion stack, you just wasted a rune.

I also found Defense to work better with this set-up (instead of Arms), as you can completely ignore toughness, picking up auto-EP and even Last Stand. I used Triple Stance, sometimes switching out zerk stance for Bulls Charge and Cleansing Ire (depending on how much I needed the extra mobility). BC is used for mobility more then anything on this build IMO.

It’s a fun idea, but for roaming, it didn’t work out for me.

Hello Cygnus,

Thanks a lot of your comments. Reading them, I wonder whether I do not overestimate the value of toughness in the current meta. Your suggestion includes inexpensive gear to buy, so I’ll give it a go.

To make sure I understand everything, you suggest a build along the likes of:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAscSjMdQZIWFCehAnIGMCMdL88aBWAYDmzwU3K4EA-TVyCABNqEEgHAglq/owRAwZlf5pPQiDBwM7PM9JAgMAMrB-w

So comparing to my original proposal, normalizing gear and food, eliminating what is compensated between builds:

I’d gain:

• 1k Power, 5k HP, 12% bleed duration,
• The AoE Bleed / Torment / Poison of the Runes of the Krait,
• Thick skin: minor gain,
• Dogged March: major gain, since the build is weak to handicapping conditions,
• Adrenal Health: minor gain, since I burst as soon as I have 1 bar of adrenaline, and the adrenaline building rate is not great either,
• Defy Pain: major gain,
• Spiked Armor: average gain, because while it’s optimized by the Carrion gear, getting hit with low toughness doesn’t look too good,
• 3 stances with Last Stand, major gain, undoubtedly one of the best utility setup of the warrior,
• Additional weapon skills, namely the hammer auto-attack and sword #3, which I currently do not use.

And I’d lose:

• 0.9k Armor, 22% critical chance, 30% confusion duration,
• The Confusion on interrupt from the Runes of Perplexity,
• The occasional vulnerability from Rending Strikes,
• The Signet Mastery: minor loss,
• The Blade Master: major loss, the CD reduction is nice for sword #4 and #5,
• Furious: minor loss, the build already has good condition damage, and does not require lots of adrenaline,
• A few hard control skills, with Bull’s Charge and Rampage out of the picture.

So basically, I have to test whether the additional physical damage compensates for the confusion burst and the tiny loss of hard control, and whether I can survive better with traited stances and vitality rather than with sheer toughness, especially against condition opponents. There’s a bit of thinking to be done in regards of sigils, too, but I’ll do that later.

Thanks again! There’s good experience to gain for me in there, especially in regards of Toughness and Weakness.

Taking out Perplexity runes kind of kills the purpose of Distracting Strikes and the whole idea of a condi CC build dealing with confusion.

Also by taking out arms to get defense youll lose a lot of benefits from arms, you already know all the traits youll be losing but youll definitely gain more survivability.
Kind of like my condi build and me taking out tactics for defense.

@Elegie
do you have sinister trinkets? theyre a pain to get a hold of, i gave up hope on obtaining them and just got the armor and weapons instead, thats why i used my rabid trinkets on my build :P
In overall i think lb/ss is superior

i think you should just stick with the same armor and plex runes and just take out arms for defense and see how that goes

@Darkaheart

Nope, I don’t have any sinister gear. I haven’t really played in the new maps, but I can see myself farming a bit if needed (I already did so to get the beta portal, and I liked the maps very much). I’ll have to check out recipes, if it’s such a bother then I’ll consider using rampager instead.

I believe there’s a slight misunderstanding, though. Both you and Cygnus seem to believe that the build isn’t working well enough. As a matter of fact, I have spent many hours in the testing, in Eotm of course as you’ve pointed out, but also in Borderlands. While I still have a lot more to experiment, I deemed my initial results satisfying enough to propose the build to the community. In other words, while the build does have many weaknesses, I believe in its potential, and have had pretty good fights with it already.

I’m pretty sure the Defense line can work nicely, though. As a matter of fact, I’ve already played condition builds using Strength / Defense / Discipline before, although not with the hammer and the runes of Perplexity. I’ll give a try using the same armor, but just switching the trait line and the utilities (going with stances), to see how it fares!

Cheers.

Dude, your build just got viable with Torch.

Btw, the build you posted looks similar to what I’d run. You can also select condi duration increase food instead of reduction, to get 40% on everything including confusion and 85% on bleeds.
Also, take geomancy instead of earth. It will immediately proc doom if you land it, it’s AoE, and swapping to hammer will often be close to your target thanks to sword leap. The duration is 10 seconds base, which is a lot better then earth on a slow hitting weapon, especially if your crit chance gets lower.

It might be worth it to go celestial after Berserker goes live. Sword Torch Hammer will be very strong I believe. The reason being that one can use the Torch 5 to stack might with Sword Leap and Earthshaker.

And then we don’t even know yet what the primal burst will bring us.

Hi,

Cygnus.6903:

Dude, your build just got viable with Torch.

I have been reading about the Torch with a lot of interest, you bet

Cygnus.6903:

Also, take geomancy instead of earth. It will immediately proc doom if you land it, it’s AoE, and swapping to hammer will often be close to your target thanks to sword leap. The duration is 10 seconds base, which is a lot better then earth on a slow hitting weapon, especially if your crit chance gets lower.

That makes sense, thanks for the advice.

Cygnus.6903:

It might be worth it to go celestial after Berserker goes live. Sword Torch Hammer will be very strong I believe. The reason being that one can use the Torch 5 to stack might with Sword Leap and Earthshaker.

Yes, indeed. Current hybrid builds either lack punch (shoutbow) or mobility (hambow), mainly because they need the longbow. An hybrid Sword/Torch+Hammer sounds quite promising. Also, physical skills might become more usable as well, because they’d work with Body Blow, Distracting Strikes, Warrior’s Sprint and as Combo Finishers – not mentioning Rage skills.

I also wonder to what extent the new Specialization might provide new options for defense – because going Strength + Discipline + Berserker is something I really look forward to.

Well there is our problem. If you want to run this build, you must go Str Dis Zerk… There is no other option. Discipline is mandatory for every build, as str is for most. Zerk is needed to get the torch in the first place.

The good news is that you will pick up extra condi cleanse with torch also, and maybe even more from the Zerk traitline.

But direct damage mitigation will be difficult without blocks. Weakness is good, but can be cleansed. 1 Endure Pain won’t save us.