Guild Wars 2

I’ve been getting ready to gear my Warrior for WvW roaming and trying to decide between power and condition damage. (FYI, I very rarely post here but have been playing since early access and done a lot of roaming on other classes, so while my post history might not tell the story, I’m hardly new at this).

While there are a few roamers who post videos of their condition Berserker, by and large the GS/Mace or GS/Axe build is far and away the most common, and for example it’s the only one that’s found on metabattle.

I really think I like the playstyle of this build. It’s got a flavor to it that I just really like. However, I can’t help but find it to be very lackluster and have a hard time understanding why it’s so popular. Meanwhile, the Sw/T + M/Sh condition build that shows up here and there so far seems more survivable and to have MUCH more DPS potential to the point that I’m not sure why it’s not the norm.

Some may scoff at this, but I’ve spent 10 hours or so testing out different variations on these builds against Veteran Stoneheads and Bristlebacks in Auric Basin because, while it’s better to test on people, they respawn quickly and work a lot better for doing extensive testing of variations than the one roamer you see every 5+ minutes out in the field. Bristlebacks are nice because they do an okay job of approximating the kind of pressure a good ranged player can put on, while Stoneheads are excellent at moving around a lot and applying lots of CC, so they especially do a decent job of “imitating” another player.

In any case, I’m testing with something similar to this for the condi build (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQRAsf5enMdAdhgtkC2kCElilqA7t0uajtIFgGQAQpHE7yBA-TFSHQB26kAoL1fCx+DA4IAYRlgjT/QweAADU5HpAgZZF-w) [some people prefer perplexity runes, but I’m still debating and in any case would not splurge on them until I am sure they’re what I want) and the standard GS/Mace build for Power.

My power gear is pretty close to what you want for the build. My condition gear is not – I don’t have any of the sigils and have TB gear only on the trinkets. I’m using Dire exotic weapons and my armor is actually just the Berserker stuff. I’m using no food – much more important for condition builds. Still, and here’s why I’m asking:

The power build is doing around 1000 DPS against the Stoneheads, and around 1500 against the Bristlebacks. The condition build is doing 3500 against the Stoneheads and over 5000 against the Bristlebacks – and I don’t even have the full gear yet. On top of this, I have to work hard to stay alive with the power build, but survival is easy with the condition stuff.

So my question/topic here is: why the GS build? It just seems terrible in comparison.

Condi build similar to yours is my fav for WvW. While some parts of a build are up to taste, I’d still suggest the following tweaks:
Smash Brawler over Last Blaze, Berserker Stance over Sundering Leap, and Sigil of Hydromancy on your shield (helps overwhelm on the CC part and you’re over the cap on condi duration for fire/bleed anyway).
Oh, and don’t do Perplexity Runes

Thanks for the reply, perko.

Smash Brawler is one of the things I’ve been testing and will continue to. It’s definitely a consideration. I think I was just in the phase of testing Last Blaze when I copied my build for the link.

Sundering leap is a skill that I know is not “standard” on this sort of build, and I’ve taken it off the bar many times but keep coming back to it. One of the things that the condi build does sacrifice from the GS build is mobility, and it’s one more mobility/immob breaking skill, which is good. It seems like it should be very useful as a gap closer, as this is a build which if there is a weakness it’s probably got to be sticking on the target.

Moreover, I love it as an opener. Typically you’d open with Torch 5 and leap to the target with sword 2, making and then breaking a fire aura. Sundering leap does exactly the same thing, same range, it cripples just like sword 2, but it ALSO applies 10 stacks of vulnerability which helps ramp up the damage on the target right from the get go, AND it keeps sword 2 ready to jump back to the target if/when he tries to get some distance on you as a melee character.

As for the runes, why do you urge against Perplexity? I’ve been thinking, crunching numbers, and watching videos of people using them and I am definitely not sold, but I do see the point and why they can be good. What is your reasoning against them?

Have a look at vaanss videos on YouTube. He uses GS/ax, shield power build. But you won’t find his build on metabattle.

https://youtu.be/y6mW_FWGVZA

His build is in the description.

Skolops.2604:

Thanks for the reply, perko.

Smash Brawler is one of the things I’ve been testing and will continue to. It’s definitely a consideration. I think I was just in the phase of testing Last Blaze when I copied my build for the link.

Sundering leap is a skill that I know is not “standard” on this sort of build, and I’ve taken it off the bar many times but keep coming back to it. One of the things that the condi build does sacrifice from the GS build is mobility, and it’s one more mobility/immob breaking skill, which is good. It seems like it should be very useful as a gap closer, as this is a build which if there is a weakness it’s probably got to be sticking on the target.

Moreover, I love it as an opener. Typically you’d open with Torch 5 and leap to the target with sword 2, making and then breaking a fire aura. Sundering leap does exactly the same thing, same range, it cripples just like sword 2, but it ALSO applies 10 stacks of vulnerability which helps ramp up the damage on the target right from the get go, AND it keeps sword 2 ready to jump back to the target if/when he tries to get some distance on you as a melee character.

As for the runes, why do you urge against Perplexity? I’ve been thinking, crunching numbers, and watching videos of people using them and I am definitely not sold, but I do see the point and why they can be good. What is your reasoning against them?

a defensive, or burning rune is going to be far better for the build. you do a lot of burns, so balth runes will give you a big damage boost. perplex is not a good rune after nerfs.

also zerker stance > sundering leap. it’s not even a contest.

choovanski.5462:

Skolops.2604:

Thanks for the reply, perko.

Smash Brawler is one of the things I’ve been testing and will continue to. It’s definitely a consideration. I think I was just in the phase of testing Last Blaze when I copied my build for the link.

Sundering leap is a skill that I know is not “standard” on this sort of build, and I’ve taken it off the bar many times but keep coming back to it. One of the things that the condi build does sacrifice from the GS build is mobility, and it’s one more mobility/immob breaking skill, which is good. It seems like it should be very useful as a gap closer, as this is a build which if there is a weakness it’s probably got to be sticking on the target.

Moreover, I love it as an opener. Typically you’d open with Torch 5 and leap to the target with sword 2, making and then breaking a fire aura. Sundering leap does exactly the same thing, same range, it cripples just like sword 2, but it ALSO applies 10 stacks of vulnerability which helps ramp up the damage on the target right from the get go, AND it keeps sword 2 ready to jump back to the target if/when he tries to get some distance on you as a melee character.

As for the runes, why do you urge against Perplexity? I’ve been thinking, crunching numbers, and watching videos of people using them and I am definitely not sold, but I do see the point and why they can be good. What is your reasoning against them?

a defensive, or burning rune is going to be far better for the build. you do a lot of burns, so balth runes will give you a big damage boost. perplex is not a good rune after nerfs.

also zerker stance > sundering leap. it’s not even a contest.

The build is easily capped on burning duration without really trying, so Balthazar runes are a waste. They’re a good option if you’re doing the budget version with Dire gear over Trailblazer or Viper, but if you have the Expertise they’re wasted.

I understand the value in 11 seconds of resistance, but a condi berserker already has a lot of condition cleanses and what it really lacks in is mobility.

NeedCoffee.1402:

Have a look at vaanss videos on YouTube. He uses GS/ax, shield power build. But you won’t find his build on metabattle.

https://youtu.be/y6mW_FWGVZA

His build is in the description.

Thanks. I have seen this kind of build before and messed with it. It is a bit better than the mace version, as the axe F2 does add burst, but I guess the hangup I have is this:

Even when you are working on a target that just sits there and lets you beat on it to your heart’s content, the highest peak of its burst DPS is still lower than the bottom out point on the condition build – and that’s with me running pretty good gear for the GS/Axe build and pretty mediocre gear for the condition one. When all of a sudden the target is moving and you’re chasing around and only hitting on a fraction of your attacks, its even worse.

Now don’t misunderstand: WvW is not a raid. I completely understand and embrace the need to make tradeoffs for the sake of survivability and utility and the fact that a PvE build is not going to hit the same sorts of numbers against live players in the field, but the difference we’re talking about is not small or even moderate – it’s massive. Moreover, I find the condi build more survivable at that, which makes sense. It does have more condition cleanses and as much as 50% more effective HP.

So the question I’m really trying to figure out here is how I can understand any of these GS builds to be anything other than significantly worse than a burning Sw/T build that seems to have little trouble doing 4 – 5x the DPS against moving targets that the GS one does against stationary ones, has more total defense, and has more condition removal.

Hello !

Thanks for the thread and brainstorming. One question about your build : why sinister armor ? I’m not sure I understood what you wrote… Is it just because you only had that available ? Are you aiming for a full trailblazer build ?

ThomasC.1056:

Hello !

Thanks for the thread and brainstorming. One question about your build : why sinister armor ? I’m not sure I understood what you wrote… Is it just because you only had that available ? Are you aiming for a full trailblazer build ?

ThomasC,

Its because the build is already maxed out on condition duration for burning and bleeding, the two most important conditions in the build (the poison and torment and confusion the build applies pare out at only a percent or two of the damage and their real purpose is not to do damage as much as to eat condition removals).

Adding more Trailblazer or Viper is a waste because the expertise from them will do nothing while the other three stats are lower than on 3 stat gear, so you fill those slots with Sinister (for full offense), Carrion or Rabid (for middle ground between offense and defense), or Dire (for full defense).

By the way, if you’re curious the build is almost exactly the same as the one in this video, except that this guy is running Perplexity runes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQC583WeqQ

Skolops.2604:

ThomasC.1056:

Hello !

Thanks for the thread and brainstorming. One question about your build : why sinister armor ? I’m not sure I understood what you wrote… Is it just because you only had that available ? Are you aiming for a full trailblazer build ?

ThomasC,

Its because the build is already maxed out on condition duration for burning and bleeding, the two most important conditions in the build (the poison and torment and confusion the build applies pare out at only a percent or two of the damage and their real purpose is not to do damage as much as to eat condition removals).

Adding more Trailblazer or Viper is a waste because the expertise from them will do nothing while the other three stats are lower than on 3 stat gear, so you fill those slots with Sinister (for full offense), Carrion or Rabid (for middle ground between offense and defense), or Dire (for full defense).

By the way, if you’re curious the build is almost exactly the same as the one in this video, except that this guy is running Perplexity runes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQC583WeqQ

Thanks for your answer. I’d go with sinister or rabid. Do you think the additional power is impactful ?

Skolops.2604:

NeedCoffee.1402:

Have a look at vaanss videos on YouTube. He uses GS/ax, shield power build. But you won’t find his build on metabattle.

https://youtu.be/y6mW_FWGVZA

His build is in the description.

Thanks. I have seen this kind of build before and messed with it. It is a bit better than the mace version, as the axe F2 does add burst, but I guess the hangup I have is this:

Even when you are working on a target that just sits there and lets you beat on it to your heart’s content, the highest peak of its burst DPS is still lower than the bottom out point on the condition build – and that’s with me running pretty good gear for the GS/Axe build and pretty mediocre gear for the condition one. When all of a sudden the target is moving and you’re chasing around and only hitting on a fraction of your attacks, its even worse.

Now don’t misunderstand: WvW is not a raid. I completely understand and embrace the need to make tradeoffs for the sake of survivability and utility and the fact that a PvE build is not going to hit the same sorts of numbers against live players in the field, but the difference we’re talking about is not small or even moderate – it’s massive. Moreover, I find the condi build more survivable at that, which makes sense. It does have more condition cleanses and as much as 50% more effective HP.

So the question I’m really trying to figure out here is how I can understand any of these GS builds to be anything other than significantly worse than a burning Sw/T build that seems to have little trouble doing 4 – 5x the DPS against moving targets that the GS one does against stationary ones, has more total defense, and has more condition removal.

You can cleanse a condition before it really hurts, but you can’t cleanse a 10k crit from arc divider.

Power is for Manly Men who like big beefy numbers and dunking nerds by outplaying them.

Condi is for Wimps. And there’s nothing better than dumpster-ing them after they were sure they had every advantage in the world.

Keepin it real, run whatever you want. Power is more fun/mobile.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Skolops.2604:

NeedCoffee.1402:

Have a look at vaanss videos on YouTube. He uses GS/ax, shield power build. But you won’t find his build on metabattle.

https://youtu.be/y6mW_FWGVZA

His build is in the description.

Thanks. I have seen this kind of build before and messed with it. It is a bit better than the mace version, as the axe F2 does add burst, but I guess the hangup I have is this:

Even when you are working on a target that just sits there and lets you beat on it to your heart’s content, the highest peak of its burst DPS is still lower than the bottom out point on the condition build – and that’s with me running pretty good gear for the GS/Axe build and pretty mediocre gear for the condition one. When all of a sudden the target is moving and you’re chasing around and only hitting on a fraction of your attacks, its even worse.

Now don’t misunderstand: WvW is not a raid. I completely understand and embrace the need to make tradeoffs for the sake of survivability and utility and the fact that a PvE build is not going to hit the same sorts of numbers against live players in the field, but the difference we’re talking about is not small or even moderate – it’s massive. Moreover, I find the condi build more survivable at that, which makes sense. It does have more condition cleanses and as much as 50% more effective HP.

So the question I’m really trying to figure out here is how I can understand any of these GS builds to be anything other than significantly worse than a burning Sw/T build that seems to have little trouble doing 4 – 5x the DPS against moving targets that the GS one does against stationary ones, has more total defense, and has more condition removal.

You can cleanse a condition before it really hurts, but you can’t cleanse a 10k crit from arc divider.

Power is for Manly Men who like big beefy numbers and dunking nerds by outplaying them.

Condi is for Wimps. And there’s nothing better than dumpster-ing them after they were sure they had every advantage in the world.

Keepin it real, run whatever you want. Power is more fun/mobile.

I don’t know, I’ve never seen even Decapitate crit for more than 8.5k or so in any of the videos from any of these roamers, and Arc Divider hits for less.

From having spent a few hours hours testing both of these against real people, I definitely like the GS style more in terms of fun, but I’m getting destroyed whereas the Condi style is taking a beating and proving hard to kill, while nuking most other players in a few seconds, with the exception of Guardians – who don’t take much damage from it – and Condition Necros – who are just generally hard with this build.

The problem I’m having with the power build is that, apart from just taking a ton of damage, all of it’s attacks are so strongly telegraphed that I’m rarely hitting any of the big ones.

My main is a power Warrior that uses mainly Axe/Axe and Rifle, with some Sword and Shield thrown in to replace the dual axe setup. Both versions are core warrior, fairly glassy, and use Destruction of the Empowered. I would consider a 8k Eviscerate, Kill Shot, or Final Thrust a disappointment.

I have hit 13.5 k Eviscerates, 14.5k Kills Shots, and 12k plus Final Thrusts. Power builds are entirely capable of landing such big hits, and good players can chain them together and do it at the perfect time. They hit like trucks if you build them to do it. You sacrifice a lot, but the damage is definitely there.

My build is not a roaming build though, its a build meant to run with at least one other and to burst at the best time. Roaming builds must be way more durable, they have to face multiple threats at once fairly regularly, this means they generally do less damage.

Power builds like mine punish mistakes very heavily, where a good roaming build will have more cushion to help reset/keep fighting. Still, power builds in general are less generous to mistakes then meta condition builds are right now.

Right now, Condi is incredibly strong, the stat advantages are just too good. I prefer power though, its just far more satisfying when the burst does land.

I’ll edit this post later with a clip of a 9999 damage non-crit i got on a druid of all people just the other night. I run half marauder, and I dont even think i was running destruction of the empowered.

Yeah, some of my biggest hits are on Druids, not sure why. That is a pretty big non-crit strike though.

My goal is to make a montage of big hits so I have been making clips too.

Gonna have to make a special edition teef one shot video though……oh yes!

I’m prettttty sure anyone hitting 10k crits and such either have a full 25 stack of bloodlust or ur hitting an outright squishy or someone that has a lot vul applied.

I have been playing with this a bit more and found much, much more success with the power build by using the signet of might to make sure the burst is not blocked, which had been a big problem before.

sneakytails.5629:

Yeah, some of my biggest hits are on Druids, not sure why. That is a pretty big non-crit strike though.

My goal is to make a montage of big hits so I have been making clips too.

Gonna have to make a special edition teef one shot video though……oh yes!

Lol not like its hard to do :p