Guild Wars 2

WARNING: This will be a long post but bear with me if you’d like to fully understand my angle. Also this is from a WvW roam/duel viewpoint, I’ll comment on sPvP later on in the post.

Hey there,

Wasn’t sure where to put this but seeing as it’s mostly about warrior, I guess the warrior forum makes sense.

Anyway, I’ve been reading around the forums lately and it’s difficult to not spot threads/topics claiming warrior is OP. People cite eviscerate, hammer, mobility, cleansing ire, hp & armour, healing signet, mace, zerk stance etc. Now if you’re one of those people and I haven’t lost your interest yet, keep reading, I’ll be as respectful as possible. Having previously mained ranger before I picked up warrior, I know of hardships when it comes to balance, however I picked ranger up again a couple months back and I’m enjoying it immensely. Taking into account that ranger is considered bottom of the barrel when it comes to most scenarios and warrior is considered to be top, I decided to demonstrate that regardless of what profession you play, you’ll near always have access to a build that can beat another build. If you consistently lose to a specific build, change your own and adapt. I get the feeling people who post on the forums citing a profession is OP because of <insert reason> have done little to find a work around and would rather charge in using the same build over and over then claim the profession they’re fighting is OP because they can’t win. Don’t get me wrong, there will pretty much always be some imbalance and it’s good that the community can bring it to the attention of the developers, at least if it’s grounded in truth. What I see on the forums & ingame though doesn’t look like the truth, rather a playerbase full of casuals who when presented with a challenge, do little to overcome it. While I do little PvE, I remember the outcry from many people when Liadri returned for the second crown pav, even though players knew she was beatable, so many asked for a nerf. I’m not saying being a casual gamer is a bad thing, by no means. What I am saying is just because one person can’t beat a particular obstacle, doesn’t mean it’s unbeatable. And that’s the feeling I get when people run into warriors. “Wow I can’t beat this guy/gal, their profession is OP”. Sorry but I’m going to include a short story (I don’t like using anecdotes when trying to prove a point but this event is one of the main reasons I made the video):

Ok, onto the actual video. I’ll post the link & it’s context.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI7dFJhSj2o – Skip to 1:15 for the start of the fights – enjoy! I decided to leave some clips in where I had nourishment and my opponent didn’t but there are also clips where I don’t have stacks and my opponents do, so it’s kay. Plus warrior is “OP”, so it shouldn’t matter, right?

My build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAR8YjEqUwaFLOsw1iA/gadDEALAr+9116sKCiLWqKJ-TlSDwA9UWwa/hLKBfqE7l6PQVKU5iAAS3AAzSSeCAkBQfLA-w

Some quotes which the video helps to debunk/discredit:

Miss a dodge against a warrior = you are dead.

Warrior stands still without dodging = signet will heal it up without you having to do anything

Once I use my Signet of Stone, I become as glassy as a ranger can get and yet still miss dodges and don’t die. There are parts where I play poorly, wasting evades & Signet of Stone, still don’t die. Warriors who stand still die fast.

I am going to tell you, if you are going to trade hits with a warrior in a melee range, you are not going to come out on top.

See video.

I can safely say anyone that in favor of the eviscerate build being “just fine” has either A. Never played another profession/build or B. Is simply a bad player afraid to be nothing without his or her crutch.

Uh huh…

A full PVT warr can crit 12k eviscerate because of runes of strenght+ might stacks from longbow and intel sigils that gives you 100% crit chance.

I’ve yet to see this happen. It never happened to me whilst recording this video and most of the warriors I came up against were glassy.

Context:

I decided to use a full melee zerk ranger with signets, something I’d never actually seen before, mainly because it isn’t a good build in most instances. ANet realised how badly ranger signets functioned and so plan to remove the required 6 trait points to make them effective and instead make the active effects permanent without needing to trait for them, in the upcoming balance patch. I hate it when people compare across professions because they almost never take into account everything else the classes have to offer. Like I see people comparing Evis & Fire grab, it’s just not that simple . Regardless, that’s what most people seem to understand so I guess I’ll do some cross-profession comparing myself. For example, when up against warrior, I lack many of their “OP” functions such as:

Evis, capable of hitting “12k”, high CC be it from hammer, mace, shield bash or Bull’s charge, healing signet, highest hp & armour and “OP” condi clear in the form of Cleansing Ire and zerk stance.

Baloney. Who cares? I don’t. None of that stuff is “OP”. I have my own strengths, mainly in the form of evades, stability and might stacking. In order to stack might however, I have to invest nearly all of my trait points (10) and even then it’s not reliable as 2 of my signets have large cooldowns. Not to mention I lose the passive buffs of my signets. Additionally, when anti-warriors are told to dodge a warrior’s main attacks, they claim they don’t do damage when they dodge so the warrior’s passive regen heals them back up, yet my main form of defense is evades and I do just fine. My weapon evades do have redeeming qualities however, all 3 do some (albeit fairly low) damage. The poison on the other hand can work wonders. But won’t those high damage, low cooldown “OP” burst skills just cleanse it easily with cleansing ire? No, they’re easy to negate.

Ultimately it’s all about knowing your opponent and knowing their weaknesses. An evis warrior relies heavily on landing his evis; don’t let them. Kite, blind, block, evade, CC all work very well. A hammer warrior will gain the upperhand if they land their burst, 4, 5 and 2; don’t let them. Kite, blind, block, evade, CC and stability all work very well. You get the point.

Warrior is in a good position at the moment and the upcoming balance patches will hopefully buff other professions and leave warrior as-is, apart from longbow which I’ll mention below.

sPvP

I don’t sPvP much but it’s easy to see that longbow excels in conquest mode, too much. It’s this type of frustration I have some sympathy for. Combustive shot needs some re-reworking. Make it so the field doesn’t last as long, or reduce/remove the physical damage ticks and fix the way it works with CI.

Few things, but beforehand I would like to state I never felt Warrior was OP. But I mainly play Necro/Thief – Whom many claim to be OP

First. You’re a good player. Most of the QQers are not. That’s actually a BIG deal. I watched a lot of your Warrior vids so I know this. You would probably be better than most on any proffession. Building on this fact – I believe most players lack the reaction time to beat a warrior. Which is all you need – active dodging and mitigation.

Secondly. What world are you on? I wanna duel your warrior with my condi necro should be fun! But your little short story clearly shows how most people play this game. SoS when warrior has Zerker stance is a classic noob move.

Thirdly. No one will respond to this thread and actually say “After watching your video you are right warriors are not OP I simply need more practice and need to L2P” Even though that is the what is really going on here.

Nice video!

At work so ill have to watch this later, but as a warrior being fed up with all th OP warrior posts, i have taken up the challenege of killing warriors and theives with my ranger. So far i am having great success using a celestial hybrid s/d +a/a build in wvw. the initial test run which incidentally i did not have any runes on at all, i destroyed 3 different warirors 1gs/a/sh, 1 gs/ham, and 1 s/s s/wh. Once i finish off my gear ill be posting a video and build here just to show how not op wars are and just how killable we are by anyone with a brain and especially how killable we are by rangers “the worst class in the game”. I mean, if I am able to kill other wars with a ranger, then what is everyone elses’ problem? It looks more like a L2Play issue.

Thanks for the feedback Narkod, appreciated.

Narkodx.1472:

Thirdly. No one will respond to this thread and actually say “After watching your video you are right warriors are not OP I simply need more practice and need to L2P” Even though that’s what is really going on here.

A big smirk shot across my face when I read this. You seen right through me haha, although I’d still like to believe someone might say that…just one person…don’t break the fantasy man. Also I’m on Gandara EU.

Assassin X.8573:

It looks more like a L2Play issue.

I tried sugarcoating it but yeah, basically :P.

Great video! I almost spit my coffee out at the intro sequence, was pretty funny.

Keep it up, I liked your last round of video on the assortment of Warrior builds you posted. Anything in the works for Ele or Guard since you also have them listed in your signature?

I subbed and liked. This is the best vid I have seen in a while. Relaxing music too.

Kilo November.4268:

Great video! I almost spit my coffee out at the intro sequence, was pretty funny.

Keep it up, I liked your last round of video on the assortment of Warrior builds you posted. Anything in the works for Ele or Guard since you also have them listed in your signature?

Haha, thanks Kilo.

Ele is something I picked up fairly recently but it’s geared well. Still, I have a lot of practice/l2p issues with it as I lose to builds a capable d/d shouldn’t and I often mess up the rotations. It’s still enjoyable to play but any clips you may see me running as an ele will be in a small group roam scenario, so long as those I’m running with don’t mind having a liability :P.

I don’t show my guardian too much love, it’s only geared for healway and again if you see me on guardian it will be in a small group roam scenario.

Cygnus.6903:

I subbed and liked. This is the best vid I have seen in a while. Relaxing music too.

Cheers bud, glad you enjoyed it.

I have to say that was fun to watch you smack those warriors, haha.

Also, you showed the exact reason why I don’t equip EP on my utility bar. One leap skill away from warrior and maybe a dodge and it’s gone, most warriors got nothing out of the EP than denying one of your hits and that is the exact reason I will keep taking Signet of Stamina over EP anyday.

And as a hammer user, I hate that Rampage as One! Good bloody long stability, grr hrr. A rather long cooldown but it is still nice counter-warrior skill :P

a t s e.9614:

I dont know why you think a full PVT warrior cant crit 12k…. Here’s a proof, I did a test with a squishy shatter mesmer ( he got nearly one shotted) . He was berserker , me soldier. In wvw a full PVT warrior can crit for 15k+.

Wait! you were using Soldier Amulet playing sPvP and you were able to hit a berserker Mesmer for 12k? LOL

a t s e.9614:

xbutcherx.3861:

a t s e.9614:

I dont know why you think a full PVT warrior cant crit 12k…. Here’s a proof, I did a test with a squishy shatter mesmer ( he got nearly one shotted) . He was berserker , me soldier. In wvw a full PVT warrior can crit for 15k+.

Wait! you were using Soldier Amulet playing sPvP and you were able to hit a berserker Mesmer for 12k? LOL

Yes soldier amulet with runes of strenght , might stacks with logbow and 3 damage modifies and intel sigil you dont need any crit damage or any precison.

LOL nice try, you only show 4 hits in your damage log, 12k evi and 3 2.3k slashes, meaning 1 thing, the Mesmer was naked and you were full Berserker.
Anyways was a nice try, I have to give you that.

^^^

and you would ask him to hit you to less than 25% health for Desperate power, like that every warrior use that trait…. (not).

=

anyway really great video, but man that Stability i think in these situations a GS/Sw Warrior can really shine.

a t s e.9614:

But still, people were saying a PVT (soldier) warrior cant crit 12k. I just proved it even if I had the desperate power trait.

Do you know I crit for over half a million damage yesterday using rush?

Just saying, this number you’re throwing on here is irrelevant.

Paavotar.3971:

I have to say that was fun to watch you smack those warriors, haha.

Also, you showed the exact reason why I don’t equip EP on my utility bar. One leap skill away from warrior and maybe a dodge and it’s gone, most warriors got nothing out of the EP than denying one of your hits and that is the exact reason I will keep taking Signet of Stamina over EP anyday.

And as a hammer user, I hate that Rampage as One! Good bloody long stability, grr hrr. A rather long cooldown but it is still nice counter-warrior skill :P

Thanks!

Yeah EP has always been a weird one for me. Like you said, against this type of play it didn’t work well as I lacked any real burst comparable to the likes of shatter mes, backstab or even Hundred blades. When playing warrior I’m forever switching it from my skill bar. And yeah, no warrior likes to see all that stability :P.

Juba.8406:

anyway really great video, but man that Stability i think in these situations a GS/Sw Warrior can really shine.

Cheers Juba.

I’d reckon so too, but the final clip was the only GS/Sw warrior I came across, they’re really rare. GS/Axe is by far the most common in my experience.

Even though I liked the video ( and I don’t think warriors are op), I don’t think this is proving much.
Your specc is so highly specialised in killing warriors (33sec stability, double energy sigil, high poison uptime, sword/dagger for extra dodges) against mostly Axe warriors that really depend on hitting that one ability.
I don’t duel, so I have no idea if that is common in OS, but with absolutely no condition removal I would never take that specc out for roaming and thats what makes the whole comparison uninteresting to me.
Every class has great dueling speccs, even more so when you build to counter your opponent.

Disclaimer: I’m probably ranting and this is not really important. Feel free to skip this.

The thing that makes warriors op in most players eyes (beware: personal opinion here) is the versatility they get with Defense + Fast Hands. Yes, I don’t like being forced to always spend 9/14 talent points exactly the same way to be viable, but you have to admit, that it almost got it all – sustain, condition removal, Warrior’s Sprint. It allows the warrior to fight almost everything on equal footing. Add to that, that warrior’s are more forgiving to play than other classes (yes, thats important. We’re not Sizer, we all make mistakes), the mobility they get with Melandru + Sword or GS and we have something that most people see as totally op.
(I think shadow arts thieves face the same problems btw)

Wuxi.3082:

Even though I liked the video ( and I don’t think warriors are op), I don’t think this is proving much.
Your specc is so highly specialised in killing warriors (33sec stability, double energy sigil, high poison uptime, sword/dagger for extra dodges) against mostly Axe warriors that really depend on hitting that one ability.
I don’t duel, so I have no idea if that is common in OS, but with absolutely no condition removal I would never take that specc out for roaming and thats what makes the whole comparison uninteresting to me.
Every class has great dueling speccs, even more so when you build to counter your opponent.

Disclaimer: I’m probably ranting and this is not really important. Feel free to skip this.

The thing that makes warriors op in most players eyes (beware: personal opinion here) is the versatility they get with Defense + Fast Hands. Yes, I don’t like being forced to always spend 9/14 talent points exactly the same way to be viable, but you have to admit, that it almost got it all – sustain, condition removal, Warrior’s Sprint. It allows the warrior to fight almost everything on equal footing. Add to that, that warrior’s are more forgiving to play than other classes (yes, thats important. We’re not Sizer, we all make mistakes), the mobility they get with Melandru + Sword or GS and we have something that most people see as totally op.
(I think shadow arts thieves face the same problems btw)

Thanks Wuxi.

You raise some interesting points, although I’m not going to debate the warrior’s strengths & weaknesses, there are plenty of topics for that which inevitably end up going nowhere.

I will however discuss the video. The spec wasn’t geared towards killing warriors, I first started off with Longbow/GS but found it to be too easy (I still have the clips) because high single target ranged damage is where a ranger excels at. Just take a look at the number of traits geared towards longbow; Read The Wind, Eagle Eye, Quick Draw and Piercing Arrows. Melee ranger on the other hand has Martial Mastery (which I don’t use), Two Handed Training and Strider’s Defence which is pretty useless as a whole, let alone against warriors. Condi bunker ranger would probably be even more useful against a warrior, given it has more evades and so serves as a double whammy to warriors trying to land their burst; they don’t deal the damage/CC and nor do they cleanse the conditions with CI. Full melee therefore, is arguably the hardest spec I could run when up against a warrior. I’m not pretending that the build I use is terribad and has no strengths, of course it does, the link to the build & video show this. Me, or anyone killing “OP” warriors on a class who’s considered bottom of the barrel in most scenarios proves whatever you want it to; that warrior’s aren’t OP and it’s a L2P issue or; nothing.

But do you know what I’ve never seen? QQers uploading videos of just how OP warrior is, losing so many fights to warriors that they’re just at a loss. Why? Fear. They know full well they’re making numerous mistakes and/or using less than optimal builds which people would notice in a heartbeat and tear their video to shreds.

Fox Of Precision.4187:

Ultimately it’s all about knowing your opponent and knowing their weaknesses.

a t s e.9614:

Cygnus.6903:

a t s e.9614:

But still, people were saying a PVT (soldier) warrior cant crit 12k. I just proved it even if I had the desperate power trait.

Do you know I crit for over half a million damage yesterday using rush?

Just saying, this number you’re throwing on here is irrelevant.

Tanky amulets are easy mode thats the point. Since you dont lose damage soldier vs zerker on a warrior theres no reason to play zerker with axe/hammer.

Don’t lose damage… C’mon bud, you do. Sure, in PvP you will do well enough in soldiers because everybody is forced to stand in your fire field. Try it in WvW though. No crit damage means no damage.

Kudos Fox,loved the video,now it will be much easier to deal with em :P
felt bumping this thread cause some ppl think rangers were bad before,which they werent as bad as this zerkbow buff given.

I see a lot of PvE titles and one avenger.

At 3:41 you can clearly see your wolf pet crit for 2.5K. The rest of the time i see a lot passive evade on use weapons skills with the pet being the mule for most of the sustain damage. It is pretty evident you have cherry picked a pretty low quality of warrior with 90% of them all using endure pain while above 80% health and within the first 20 seconds of duel. The fact for most of the time you are either out side of melee range and blocking while the wolf/cats do your damage shows it would have been fairer if any of these warriors had maintained a longbow to compensate for your pet doing damage at 1000 units and they (warriors) have all been equipped with 200 unit melee range weapons.

All in all, a successful video illustrating why one profession shouldn’t have a weapon combo set that has 3 evades and a escape and their 2 handed weapon should have a 3 second long channel block and evade every 3rd auto attack and a evade on its gap closer. Pair this with 2 interchangeable heat seeking pets that can crit for thousands and it all equals awesome stuff for rangers, how badly warriors got nerfed and what a botched patch it was overall, so ultimately we’re all losers.

I am happy for rangers, they needed this patch. I also have one. I am sad for warriors. I have one also.

Good quality video. Nice editing. Good music selection. Nice production. But as explained above, a very specific build that would allow a cloak and dagger thief to ride rough shod on you as they constantly have a target proc (your pet) always in range and plenty of boons on the ranger (you) to feed off.

Just fyi this thread is a month old. Before rangers got buffed and warriors got nerfed.