Guild Wars 2

Gotta nerf adrenal health its such a bs that warrior/berserker adrenal health + healing signet regens like 7~8k with 0 healing power.

It’s literally the only viable heal for warrior with Healing Signet…

It should be a grandmaster trait not a minor master. That would justify it having one of the highest healing per second in the game.

Adrenal Health is an unfortunate and lazy compromise brought in to provide the warrior with a bit of sustain, without changing the trait lines too much. Ideally, the warrior should have access to more diverse healing options.

It’s unlikely Adrenal Health be nerfed without some sort compensation. Even with Adrenal Health, the warrior is now barely competitive in PvP – and we’re just talking about selfish condi/bunker, which is the easiest type of build a class can make to be viable.

It should be exactly where it is. I don’t know how long you have been playing this game, but just in case you have not been playing that long, or in case you simply forgot, when HoT came out (and even before) the warrior had been stripped of all sustain. The warrior could not stand in a fight against any profession and could not withdraw from a fight. It took the Warrior Community Months to convince Anet to do something about the warrior, and that’s when they created the AH trait you now know. Since then warriors have been viable again.

The only thing AH needs is for it not to get 3 stacks from a single Primal Burst. It should get 1 stack from them.

emkelly.2371:

The only thing AH needs is for it not to get 3 stacks from a single Primal Burst. It should get 1 stack from them.

I think this would make a big difference to people without nerfing Berserker too hard. Maybe 1.5 stacks…

Gwaihir.1745:

It should be a grandmaster trait not a minor master. That would justify it having one of the highest healing per second in the game.

Lol you’re an idiot. That being said, it shouldn’t be nerfed. It’s possible the base healing could go down a bit and then much scale better with healing power to make the gs carrion build competetive by swapping to sage amulet for that build instead.

Iain Ross.6903:

Gwaihir.1745:

It should be a grandmaster trait not a minor master. That would justify it having one of the highest healing per second in the game.

Lol you’re an idiot. That being said, it shouldn’t be nerfed. It’s possible the base healing could go down a bit and then much scale better with healing power to make the gs carrion build competetive by swapping to sage amulet for that build instead.

That seems to be anets way of balancing out of proportion healing/sustain skills. They did it with many others most notably Druid celestial avatar skills.

Or maybe change its duration from 15s to 5-10s with same HPS (it has like 447 HPS with 3 stacks). Although this would encourage using Berserker traitline even more (because you can spam tier 3 burst skills) so i wouldn’t recommend it with how the Berserker burst skills work now.

Maybe if they would change the Berserker burst skills to have the same 3 tiers then the duration decrease could be an option (considering Core vs. Berserker’s ability to get AH stacks).

But with that in mind other healing skills could get some buffing.
1. “To the Limit” could have a bit less healing (8500) with reduced cooldown of 25s (20s if traited). This would mean 340 (425 traited) HPS. Also helping shout based builds.
2. Defiant Stance’s initial heal could be a bit more around 2.5k but it wouldnt really make a difference, its a really situational heal.
3. Mending could be a Physical skill making the physical trait (and strength traitline) a bit more valuable (that trait should be reworked imo giving different physical skills different buffs like Mending would remove 1 more condi, Kick would have bigger range on hit or knockback etc. but this is another topic) and having higher HPS traited than the signet.
Cannot comment on Blood Reckoning maybe its really good in PvE but i don’t know.

It wouldn’t be a big deal if you couldn’t slot healing signet with adrenal health traited. This allows you to ignore condi builds while simultaneously outhealing power builds.

The Warrior’s sustain is just enough to kill their opponent 1v1 in melee range. Their Survival depends on killing their opponent quickly with support form their team. Yes, 1v1 a warrior can take out just about anything on the battlefeild, but their ability to sustain drops off drastically once they get out numbered. All of those Vids you watch of players 1v3 and 1v4ing in WvW are extremelly experienced warriors, with the best gear and builds facing off against lesser opponents. Yes, it’s still impressive when Vaans Zerg Surfs, but if even one of his opponents knows how to fight him he’s boned. the same goes for when you see a video of 1v4s. I have mentioned this to Vaan’s myself, but i’m always amazed how lucky Vaan’s gets on some fights.

I find myself wondering, “Wow, if these guys just waited for him to pop his balanced stance, and then Condi burst him, he’d be dead.”
or
“I can’t believe they let him run away and heal, "

or

“Holy crap people when he LOS’s you while you are chacing him don’t just WALK around the corner into his burst ski——nope, nope you just let him burst you, GG”

I especially love it when he fights players who blow all their attacks on his Defy pain and Endure pain. Or when a thief Bursts him, to 49% health, then spends the next 10 seconds running away instead of pressing the advantage after 4 seconds.

I’m not saying AH is perfectly balanced, it needs a small change, but start small. if it’s not enough you can tweek it a little more. Start with the obvious.

Primal Bursts should get 1 stack of AH.

Healing still too high? Lower the duration of the stacks by a few seconds.

Still to high? (I doubt it will be) Lower the healing by 15%

Still to high? (There is no way it would be too high at this point,) maybe reconsider the trait all together.

Personally i think only the first step is needed. Berserker’s have it too easy, and the elite spec is far to common among players. Personally its about time Berserker got a nerf. not core warrior, but Berserker.

@ OP,

Most of us don’t like it either. Its lazy and overpowered as you said. But like many say…..we just don’t have enough stuff elsewhere (stealth, blocks, aoe, heavy cc, hot crap) to get by.

Personally I dont care anymore, we should just suck it up and have them nerf it. WE ARE WARRRRRIORRRS afterall.

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

The community showed a lot more imagination with their proposed warrior changes back then.
I am pretty sure all of us liked the changes to AH and BP, which meant they no longer require you to hold on to your arenalin. Although, we would have prefered much smaller numbers to these traits and instead have them combined with some of the stuff that was proposed. Stuff which was centered around much more active play.
In any case, warriors have gotten pushed into such passive play for ages now.
They give you some crazy passive traits, then overnerf them when it is already too late to bother. They finally decide something is too strong, they move traits in a way that forces you to pick between two mandatory traits for that build, usually during a time when that build isn’t even meta anymore.

Something needs to be done about the combination of AH+berserker for sure. You can add it to the long list of stuff that needs to be balanced in PvP.
Simply bringing it up because of the high healing numbers isn’t the right way to go. You can not compare apples with oranges. Other classes have other stuff to work with that we do not have.

Warriors without AH were literally trash in Season 1 and 2. Like literally if you had a War in your team you were 90% guarantee loss. It already heals for 10% less in PvP. And its not like Warriors are everywhere in PvP owning players.

Maybe they could change the duration from 15s to 10s. But changes need to be done slowly or they will be trash again real quick.

In WvW everything is different since you have access to diff runes/sigils/armor stats. Which can make a war tankier anyway.

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

You can not compare a warrior’s personal regeneration to tempest or druid party support and party healing. That is the major difference. It would be insane if that regeneration affected 5 players.
Druids were already more tanky than a warrior in single combat without even mentioning their team healing, which was quite good even at 0 healing power. That is why they got nerfed.

It’s funny: If somebody else has a problem (namely, the warriors), it’s “l2p”. But beware that somebody gets buffed, then it’s a top level concern and needs to be nerfed asap.

Maybe you are just too used to utterly destroying warriors and can’t cope with the fact that it’s now challenging again.

Maybe all classes should have exactly the same skills/traits and differ only in colour? But even that would lead some persons to the conclusion that the opponent, after having kicked their buttocks, can only have achieved that by playing an insanely OP class with insanely OP skills/traits.

Spartacus got it quite right:

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

No buffs, no nerfs.

FIX everything.

(Edited for consistency, and because it was off topic)

Plautze.6290:

It’s funny: If somebody else has a problem (namely, the warriors), it’s “l2p”. But beware that somebody gets buffed, then it’s a top level concern and needs to be nerfed asap.

Maybe you are just too used to utterly destroying warriors and can’t cope with the fact that it’s now challenging again.

Maybe all classes should have exactly the same skills/traits and differ only in colour? But even that would lead some persons to the conclusion that the opponent, after having kicked their buttocks, can only have achieved that by playing an insanely OP class with insanely OP skills/traits.

Spartacus got it quite right:

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

Now, now, his concerns are valid. AH is what gave us sustain again, so it’s logical to see it as over powered. Honestly i don;t think it’s warrior that is overpowered, it’s berserker. So while their concerns are valid, they are misplaced on the core warrior when they should look at berserker and think. "hey, why does the berserker get more and better bursts than the core warrior, easier access to AH, easier access to adrenaline, more burst damage, more boons, than the core spec. Why does that one bar of adrenaline they get in berserk mode count as three bars of adrenaline for AH, and other traits that rely on adrenaline?

emkelly.2371:

(Edited for consistency, and because it was off topic)

Plautze.6290:

It’s funny: If somebody else has a problem (namely, the warriors), it’s “l2p”. But beware that somebody gets buffed, then it’s a top level concern and needs to be nerfed asap.

Maybe you are just too used to utterly destroying warriors and can’t cope with the fact that it’s now challenging again.

Maybe all classes should have exactly the same skills/traits and differ only in colour? But even that would lead some persons to the conclusion that the opponent, after having kicked their buttocks, can only have achieved that by playing an insanely OP class with insanely OP skills/traits.

Spartacus got it quite right:

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

Now, now, his concerns are valid. AH is what gave us sustain again, so it’s logical to see it as over powered. Honestly i don;t think it’s warrior that is overpowered, it’s berserker. So while their concerns are valid, they are misplaced on the core warrior when they should look at berserker and think. "hey, why does the berserker get more and better bursts than the core warrior, easier access to AH, easier access to adrenaline, more burst damage, more boons, than the core spec. Why does that one bar of adrenaline they get in berserk mode count as three bars of adrenaline for AH, and other traits that rely on adrenaline?

So by your logic a berserker warrior has to build 30 adrenaline to enter Berserk > burst just to gain 1 stack of HS (because they can spam it ) lol even on core warrior it issnt hard to maintain 3 stacks without spending a whole traitline.

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

wow… you think warrior is OP…

it has no presence in competitive play. it’s not even meta

furthermore, all but LB burst are dang easy to dodge.

others have pointed out why your comparison w the healing of AOE support classes is dumb. but dude, if you cant out dps 7k in 15 sec you should really rethink your play & build.

Nick, Next time you play your warrior, Go ahead and run Core warrior for about a week. You’ll see that you’re survival relies much more on your ability to land bursts, building adrenaline, maintaining adrenaline than Berserker. Core warrior is actually extremely balanced. Berserker on the other hand has the same problem that every Elite specialization has. As an example

Entering berserk mode can be done every 15 seconds. For entering berserk mode a warrior gains all the benefits and more of an Elite skill (Signet of Rage) which has a cooldown of 60 seconds, and a cast time of one second. If you think that sounds like balance, you are woefully ignorant of what the word balance means in a game.

Look, I main a warrior. I love my warrior. But I can at least admit that Berserker is OP. I can also admit that EVERY Elite spec invalidates the classes core mechanics. This is not the way a game should be designed. If you believe it is then you are a fool.

back on topic.
Yeah, AH needs looked at. But it needs to be looked at in relation to how it effects berserk mode first. you can come back to it again if that change is not enough.

To be quite honest, I too was somewhat surprised, after playing most of my time as core warrior to find that berserker is a quick-bursting AH machine. But on the other hand that’s what I need to get along in most HoT content. If that is because I suck or because HoT is pretty hard (or vanilla content is too easy and therefore I’m just a crybaby) I can’t tell. But before using berserker, I got kicked all over the place while right now, I kick some chak butt. After months of stagnation and alting, I finally rediscovered my taste on my main and all thanks to berserker spec.

To me it seems (please right me if I’m wrong) that core warrior, as it is played by all the seminoobs plus me, can’t survive in HoT. Perhaps I will try and respec my core warrior and give it another try as I hope that berserking has honed my warrior skills.
So am I the only one that got punched in the chest by HoT and had to adapt first before being able to go on?

Back to topic:
Imho, ELITE specs should be somewhat better than the core class, but making literally all the difference between enjoying yourself and wanting to reroll, quit whatever is a bit too much.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I actually want to try HoT w/o berserker… of course AH will still be my lifesaver, but fueled by burst mastery, “to the limit” , signet of rage (passive), signet of fury… can’t wait!

nicknamenick.2437:

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

And that alone is something that shouldn’t happen.
Even with multiple elite-specs available to every class core classes should still be viable options.

LouWolfskin.3492:

nicknamenick.2437:

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

And that alone is something that shouldn’t happen.

I know, i didnt say it should be..
But i do realize that it wont be changed anymore.
Been there done the complaining about a year ago since HOT.

@Emkelly: I play warrior now since the start and i hated the new elite berserker for being better compared to core but thats just how it is and will continue to be so.
i and many others complained about HOT/Elites.. and soon (next year?) we will be doing it all over again with the new Elite (spellbreaker?)

LouWolfskin.3492:

nicknamenick.2437:

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

And that alone is something that shouldn’t happen.
Even with multiple elite-specs available to every class core classes should still be viable options.

dude. get over yourself.

anet have designed the game so the elite is stronger on all classes. this is intentional.

nobody cares what you think balance should be based on. anet have obviously decided that elites should be better. so get your head out of the sand & start living in the real world.

there willbe more elite specs, & those will be balanced with the current elites. so it will be about what elite you choose. core is dead.

choovanski.5462:

LouWolfskin.3492:

nicknamenick.2437:

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

And that alone is something that shouldn’t happen.
Even with multiple elite-specs available to every class core classes should still be viable options.

dude. get over yourself.

anet have designed the game so the elite is stronger on all classes. this is intentional.

nobody cares what you think balance should be based on. anet have obviously decided that elites should be better. so get your head out of the sand & start living in the real world.

there willbe more elite specs, & those will be balanced with the current elites. so it will be about what elite you choose. core is dead.

I’m not exactly sure if just my general problems with social interaction are coming through or if it’s something else but what exactly did i do or say to you that you need to give me an aggressive answer?

It’s not my perception of what Balance should be, if you introduce something new into a system that outperforms old stuff that’s still supposed to be an option it still loses that role as an option.
So sorry, but it shouldn’t happen.
It did, i’m still playing the game, heck i’m even enjoying some of the elite specs, but that doesn’t mean i have to like the approach they took with it.

No idea how that exactly keeps me from “living in the real world”.

But thanks for your insight.

There has been plenty of previous discussion on AH balance in this forum. the issue is not AH itself, but berzerker AH having a 3 slot burst for 10 adrenaline.

LouWolfskin.3492:

choovanski.5462:

LouWolfskin.3492:

nicknamenick.2437:

And Elite specs would always be better from now on.. everyone knows that.

And that alone is something that shouldn’t happen.
Even with multiple elite-specs available to every class core classes should still be viable options.

dude. get over yourself.

anet have designed the game so the elite is stronger on all classes. this is intentional.

nobody cares what you think balance should be based on. anet have obviously decided that elites should be better. so get your head out of the sand & start living in the real world.

there willbe more elite specs, & those will be balanced with the current elites. so it will be about what elite you choose. core is dead.

I’m not exactly sure if just my general problems with social interaction are coming through or if it’s something else but what exactly did i do or say to you that you need to give me an aggressive answer?

It’s not my perception of what Balance should be, if you introduce something new into a system that outperforms old stuff that’s still supposed to be an option it still loses that role as an option.
So sorry, but it shouldn’t happen.
It did, i’m still playing the game, heck i’m even enjoying some of the elite specs, but that doesn’t mean i have to like the approach they took with it.

No idea how that exactly keeps me from “living in the real world”.

But thanks for your insight.

dude. anet have made the elites better than the regular classes. so obviously they don’t want the core classes to be as strong, because heyyy if they did they wouldn’t have made the elites better than core.

core is obviously not supposed to be a competitive option. it’s you who thinks they should be a competitive option. anet disagrees.

thsi straight up is about your idea of balance, which is something that anet doesn’t share.

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

wow… you think warrior is OP…

it has no presence in competitive play. it’s not even meta

furthermore, all but LB burst are dang easy to dodge.

others have pointed out why your comparison w the healing of AOE support classes is dumb. but dude, if you cant out dps 7k in 15 sec you should really rethink your play & build.

Oh yeah u want to tell me to l2p?

Because i am pretty sure i know u from fergusson’s crossing and u played scrapper so badly and u are zerger not a roamer. I dont want to hear this from a person who cant even flip a camp solo. Seems like now u are playing berserker and u talked about out dps that 7k hp regen u can try it like they are going to stand still and let u out dps them lol

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

wow… you think warrior is OP…

it has no presence in competitive play. it’s not even meta

furthermore, all but LB burst are dang easy to dodge.

others have pointed out why your comparison w the healing of AOE support classes is dumb. but dude, if you cant out dps 7k in 15 sec you should really rethink your play & build.

Oh yeah u want to tell me to l2p?

Because i am pretty sure i know u from fergusson’s crossing and u played scrapper so badly and u are zerger not a roamer. I dont want to hear this from a person who cant even flip a camp solo. Seems like now u are playing berserker and u talked about out dps that 7k hp regen u can try it like they are going to stand still and let u out dps them lol

i moved off fergs before HoT came out (& i was playing zerker warrior roaming anyhow). furthermore i don’t even play wvw anymore.
(& really dude not being able to output over 7k in 15sec.. aright dude hahaha, guess i should expect that from guy who thinks flipping camps solo is impressive)

pretty cool story tho. mail me another one when you get kitten again ;-)

Why every time someone dies against profession X instead of trying to get better at beating that profession asks for nerfs?

Also when you go spvp everyone plays ranger or guardian. Yesterday I played against 3 guards and 2 rangers, not possible to do anything and you ask for warrior nerfs, haha, good one.

If you want to nerf warriors I have a different proposition instead: how about balancing pvp? I never see a revenant in pvp or an elementalist. Are they so horrible or guardian/ranger is simply easier to play?

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

wow… you think warrior is OP…

it has no presence in competitive play. it’s not even meta

furthermore, all but LB burst are dang easy to dodge.

others have pointed out why your comparison w the healing of AOE support classes is dumb. but dude, if you cant out dps 7k in 15 sec you should really rethink your play & build.

Oh yeah u want to tell me to l2p?

Because i am pretty sure i know u from fergusson’s crossing and u played scrapper so badly and u are zerger not a roamer. I dont want to hear this from a person who cant even flip a camp solo. Seems like now u are playing berserker and u talked about out dps that 7k hp regen u can try it like they are going to stand still and let u out dps them lol

i moved off fergs before HoT came out (& i was playing zerker warrior roaming anyhow). furthermore i don’t even play wvw anymore.
(& really dude not being able to output over 7k in 15sec.. aright dude hahaha, guess i should expect that from guy who thinks flipping camps solo is impressive)

pretty cool story tho. mail me another one when you get kitten again ;-)

Obvious troll is obvious.