brawlers recovery
I don’t know, losing a condition every 5 seconds is pretty cool. Especially seeing as how guardians can only shed conditions that fast if they trait to do so. Their signet removes one per 10 seconds, and Purity trait does the same.
This is assuming that you’re traited for Fast Hands, which you should be if you’re running Brawlers Recovery, it only makes sense. Pair that with a sigil of cleansing if you want, and your condition removal is twice that of a Guardian if you’re weapon switching often enough. All that without needing Cleansing Ire.
The real question is does Brawlers Recovery remove Daze as well? If so, it needs nothing else.
Aratyl ~Gate of Madness
Co-Leader of the Get Fresh Crew
Co-Leader of the Get Fresh Crew
I don’t know, losing a condition every 5 seconds is pretty cool. Especially seeing as how guardians can only shed conditions that fast if they trait to do so. Their signet removes one per 10 seconds, and Purity trait does the same.
This is assuming that you’re traited for Fast Hands, which you should be if you’re running Brawlers Recovery, it only makes sense. Pair that with a sigil of cleansing if you want, and your condition removal is twice that of a Guardian if you’re weapon switching often enough. All that without needing Cleansing Ire.
The real question is does Brawlers Recovery remove Daze as well? If so, it needs nothing else.
Daze is a CC, not a condition, brawlers recovery does not turn the weapon swap to a stunbreak…
I honestly don’t think it is a bad trait at all and it is definitely worth using in some builds.
Removing 1 condition potentially every 5 seconds is really good, I can’t think of any other skill on any other class that can do that. You couldn’t really justify either moving it down to master or putting extra effects to what is already a good trait.
That is 12 conditions removed every minute, plus it synergizes very well with the condition removal on swap sigil. Making it 3 conditions removed every 10 seconds potentially.
Now, if ANet would do something about our adrenaline gain outside of Cleansing Ire, so we aren’t totally glued to the trait, that would be something.
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
Did they ever add an icd to it? Because you can abuse the heck out of it otherwise to get endless condition removals.
Did they ever add an icd to it? Because you can abuse the heck out of it otherwise to get endless condition removals.
.Sure, abuse it, and we will see who wins the fight, really.
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
And what if you miss your burst skill? Obviously this doesn’t apply to Longbow but you are still stuck with the conditions that are on you, with no reliable condition removal after that. Brawler’s recovery is guaranteed condition removal every 5 seconds.
And what if you aren’t condition free after you used cleansing ire? What if you have 4 stacks of torment, confusion or burning on you? Or that pesky poison on you? Which also goes back to the point to what if your burst missed? What if you didn’t have enough adrenaline to use a burst skill before swapping? What if you are afflicted with more conditions after using Cleansing Ire? What if you got your stability corrupted and are about to fall off a ledge with no stunbreaks?
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
And what if you miss your burst skill? Obviously this doesn’t apply to Longbow but you are still stuck with the conditions that are on you, with no reliable condition removal after that. Brawler’s recovery is guaranteed condition removal every 5 seconds.
And what if you aren’t condition free after you used cleansing ire? What if you have 4 stacks of torment, confusion or burning on you? Or that pesky poison on you? Which also goes back to the point to what if your burst missed? What if you didn’t have enough adrenaline to use a burst skill before swapping? What if you are afflicted with more conditions after using Cleansing Ire? What if you got your stability corrupted and are about to fall off a ledge with no stunbreaks?
Thats too many ‘’what if’’ that i forgot you were actually arguing..
If we can simply use what if to simulate the perfect situation when B is finally better then A to win an argument, then i can say that Mending/Healing surge is better then Healing signet lol.
(edited by Simon.3794)
What if someone ran a build with BOTH BR and CI, would that just blow both of ur minds?
Hmmm ……. funny you should mention that …. i was messing about with a build last night … granted was far too tired to think properly but eventually for better or for worse i ended up with this which i am gonna try out in wvw later just as an experiment .
What do you think —-—— criticism accepted only if its constructive lol
mes, warr, nec, ele and a tea leaf all on piken sq
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
And what if you miss your burst skill? Obviously this doesn’t apply to Longbow but you are still stuck with the conditions that are on you, with no reliable condition removal after that. Brawler’s recovery is guaranteed condition removal every 5 seconds.
And what if you aren’t condition free after you used cleansing ire? What if you have 4 stacks of torment, confusion or burning on you? Or that pesky poison on you? Which also goes back to the point to what if your burst missed? What if you didn’t have enough adrenaline to use a burst skill before swapping? What if you are afflicted with more conditions after using Cleansing Ire? What if you got your stability corrupted and are about to fall off a ledge with no stunbreaks?
Thats too many ’’what if’’ that i forgot you were actually arguing..
If we can simply use what if to simulate the perfect situation when B is finally better then A to win an argument, then i can say that Mending/Healing surge is better then Healing signet lol.
They aren’t just "what ifs", they are situations that are likely to happen more often than not. What I am illustrating are the multitude of situations where Brawler’s Recovery would be very useful. These aren’t PERFECT situations. These are COMMON situations. And these are MANY situations at that.
Although you didn’t explicitly say "what if", clearing all conditions with cleansing ire before swapping is a particular "what if" situation. This is an IDEAL situation more than anything, and pretty much the only situation where Brawler’s Recovery wouldn’t be useful. So you in fact are simulating the perfect situation where B would be better than A to enhance your argument. Being free of conditions is an ideal scenario. Having conditions on you is more likely to happen than not, unless you are dueling purely power builds from certain classes.
You can’t just say Mending and Healing Surge are better than Healing Signet without considering the situations in which both would be better or worse. And more often than not, Healing Signet would be the best choice.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
And what if you miss your burst skill? Obviously this doesn’t apply to Longbow but you are still stuck with the conditions that are on you, with no reliable condition removal after that. Brawler’s recovery is guaranteed condition removal every 5 seconds.
And what if you aren’t condition free after you used cleansing ire? What if you have 4 stacks of torment, confusion or burning on you? Or that pesky poison on you? Which also goes back to the point to what if your burst missed? What if you didn’t have enough adrenaline to use a burst skill before swapping? What if you are afflicted with more conditions after using Cleansing Ire? What if you got your stability corrupted and are about to fall off a ledge with no stunbreaks?
Thats too many ‘’what if’’ that i forgot you were actually arguing..
If we can simply use what if to simulate the perfect situation when B is finally better then A to win an argument, then i can say that Mending/Healing surge is better then Healing signet lol.They aren’t just “what ifs”, they are situations that are likely to happen more often than not. What I am illustrating are the multitude of situations where Brawler’s Recovery would be very useful. These aren’t PERFECT situations. These are COMMON situations. And these are MANY situations at that.
Although you didn’t explicitly say “what if”, clearing all conditions with cleansing ire before swapping is a particular “what if” situation. This is an IDEAL situation more than anything, and pretty much the only situation where Brawler’s Recovery wouldn’t be useful. So you in fact are simulating the perfect situation where B would be better than A to enhance your argument. Being free of conditions is an ideal scenario. Having conditions on you is more likely to happen than not, unless you are dueling purely power builds from certain classes.
You can’t just say Mending and Healing Surge are better than Healing Signet without considering the situations in which both would be better or worse. And more often than not, Healing Signet would be the best choice.
To respond to your “what if” situations:
there is no what if, if you miss your Cleansing ire, a one condition removal from weapon swap won’t save you from anything, unless they change it to prioritizing high damaging condition 1st.
While
burst mastery
can easily prepare you for a level 2 burst skill after swap after missing your burst skill,
Brawler recovery
brings you nothing but one single condition removal
you will be missing
a more powerful version of burst skill
more adrenaline
-more condition removal via cleansing ire
-more burst skill availability, with burst mastery, i can place a level 2 and above combustive shot and instantly have earthshaker available to use without help of other resource income.
you will have
-less burst skill availability = less utility, less damage, less buffing, less condition removal. depend on which set you have.
side note : as a gs/lb warrior, you will always need to use your gs f1 in order to maintain your fury up time and it hits harder then rush when enemy is belong 50% which is an important dps output for the set.
with brawler recovery, you will have less opportunity to use it.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Burst mastery : add damage to burst skill, and save adrenaline = more condition clean via cleansing ire + more high adrenaline level burst skill.
Brawler recovery :remove a condition when swap weapon, does nothing when you have no condition if you used cleansing ire and become condi free before swapping.
And what if you miss your burst skill? Obviously this doesn’t apply to Longbow but you are still stuck with the conditions that are on you, with no reliable condition removal after that. Brawler’s recovery is guaranteed condition removal every 5 seconds.
And what if you aren’t condition free after you used cleansing ire? What if you have 4 stacks of torment, confusion or burning on you? Or that pesky poison on you? Which also goes back to the point to what if your burst missed? What if you didn’t have enough adrenaline to use a burst skill before swapping? What if you are afflicted with more conditions after using Cleansing Ire? What if you got your stability corrupted and are about to fall off a ledge with no stunbreaks?
Thats too many ‘’what if’’ that i forgot you were actually arguing..
If we can simply use what if to simulate the perfect situation when B is finally better then A to win an argument, then i can say that Mending/Healing surge is better then Healing signet lol.They aren’t just “what ifs”, they are situations that are likely to happen more often than not. What I am illustrating are the multitude of situations where Brawler’s Recovery would be very useful. These aren’t PERFECT situations. These are COMMON situations. And these are MANY situations at that.
Although you didn’t explicitly say “what if”, clearing all conditions with cleansing ire before swapping is a particular “what if” situation. This is an IDEAL situation more than anything, and pretty much the only situation where Brawler’s Recovery wouldn’t be useful. So you in fact are simulating the perfect situation where B would be better than A to enhance your argument. Being free of conditions is an ideal scenario. Having conditions on you is more likely to happen than not, unless you are dueling purely power builds from certain classes.
You can’t just say Mending and Healing Surge are better than Healing Signet without considering the situations in which both would be better or worse. And more often than not, Healing Signet would be the best choice.
To respond to your “what if” situations, there is no what if, if you miss your Cleansing ire, a one condition removal from weapon swap won’t save you from anything, unless they change it to prioritizing high damaging condition 1st.
While burst mastery can easily prepare you for a level 2 burst skill after swap after missing your burst skill, Brawler recovery brings you nothing but one single condition removal, and you will be missing a more powerful version of burst skill, more adrenaline which also gives more condition removal and more on demande burst skill availability which can include, CC, aoe burn pressure, fire field, might stack ability etc depend on your weapon set.
You just assume that if you miss Cleansing Ire that a single condition removal on swap won’t save you. It isn’t neccessarily about “saving you in the moment” (which it possibly very well could) but more about, you are constantly removing conditions off of you by weapon swapping (which you do naturally), therefore you are mitigating damage constantly by doing so without any sort of effort (passively). This over time can save you. And it is reliable in what it does, you are guaranteed to remove a condition.
Burst Mastery is a great trait and I use it over Brawler’s Recovery in PvP when I use Hambow. Mainly because Combustive Shot procs Cleansing Ire very easily and with hammer since it is an AoE it isn’t as difficult to proc it compared to other weapons. Plus I take Signet of Stamina and Zerker Stance so I’m good as far as condition removal.
However I use it for a lot of non-longbow builds and alot of WvW roaming builds because simply it gives me assured condition removal. And it works well with the Sigil of Cleansing. Just because Burst Mastery is better for builds that use Longbow in a PvP setting doesn’t mean Brawler’s Recovery is a terrible trait or that it is overshadowed by Burst Mastery. Not everything has to revolve around Longbows and PvP.
Brawler’s Recovery overall brings more condition removal than Burst Mastery over time, even when accounting for better uptime on bursts. And like I said, Cleansing Ire is not guaranteed unless using Longbow. Brawler’s Recovery is.
Also, as a GS/LB build, you already have kitten near permafury already, even without Burst Mastery. Signet Cooldown, Furious Reaction if you choose to use it. Arcing Slice by itself gives you alot of fury uptime. Having Burst Mastery isn’t going to significantly impact your fury uptime, nor is having 40 seconds of fury over 48 seconds rather than 45 seconds fury a game changer either. I would still use Burst Mastery over Brawler’s Recovery, but not for the reason of better fury uptime. Plus you aren’t always using Arcing Slice, with or without Burst Mastery.
Another note, you can name all the builds that you want in which Burst Mastery would be a superior choice. The fact remains that Brawler’s Recovery is still plenty good and viable for other builds and that is justification enough for it being in a decent place and not needing a buff. It is superior in some situations and the superior choice in some builds, it competes with the Burst Mastery Grandmaster which is what we want.
Using burst skill is just as nature as weapon swapping, i don’t think that argument stands. if you just simply miss all your burst skill, doesn’t matter because you lose anyway..
not to mention how now, you lose all adrenaline by missing, you need burst mastery even more, to profite the maximum effect of cleansing ire and extra damage.
And it won’t save you over time, because all it does is to removal small condition like cripple and vulnerability which can be easily reapplied over and over again.
while Burst mastery provide you a even better offensive pressure, utility and defensive support by giving more burst skill up time and more condition removal which just like what Brawlers Recovery does.
And personally i wouldn’t really talk about anything WvW in a balance topic.
Should i put PvP only in this thread, really.
there’s something called PvP only changes, not to mention brawler recovery is not good in PvP, useless in PvE, not so great in WvW either.
There you said it youself, Burst mastery is a great trait, brawlers recovery simple one condition removal won’t make it compete with burst mastery’s condition removal, adrenaline regain, damage boost and everything. that’s this thread is about.
(edited by Simon.3794)
Also, as a GS/LB build, you already have kitten near permafury already, even without Burst Mastery. Signet Cooldown, Furious Reaction if you choose to use it. Arcing Slice by itself gives you alot of fury uptime. Having Burst Mastery isn’t going to significantly impact your fury uptime, nor is having 40 seconds of fury over 48 seconds rather than 45 seconds fury a game changer either. I would still use Burst Mastery over Brawler’s Recovery, but not for the reason of better fury uptime. Plus you aren’t always using Arcing Slice, with or without Burst Mastery.
Another note, you can name all the builds that you want in which Burst Mastery would be a superior choice. The fact remains that Brawler’s Recovery is still plenty good and viable for other builds and that is justification enough for it being in a decent place and not needing a buff. It is superior in some situations and the superior choice in some builds, it competes with the Burst Mastery Grandmaster which is what we want.
you basically said the same thing i just said.
GS/LB gain perma fury by constant application of Arcing slice,
you don’t need to just copy what i said…
There, you said it yourself, burst mastery is a superior trait and that’s the point of this thread.
It is like you intentionally ignore everything I have just said in this thread. So let me address everything you just said.
Using burst skill is just as nature as weapon swapping, i don’t think that argument stands. if you just simply miss all your burst skill, doesn’t matter because you lose anyway.
Weapon swapping is way more natural/passive than using Burst Skills. With weapon swapping you are pretty much going to do it every time it is off cooldown. This is because of the adrenaline gain, quick sigil procs, etc. You aren’t going to use Burst Skills every time it is available as most of them require a set up and good positioning, not to mention actually land. Weapon swapping requires no such thing so my argument still stands.
And it won’t save you over time, because all it does is to removal small condition like cripple and vulnerability which can be easily reapplied over and over again.
So according to you it will only remove small conditions like cripple and vulnerability? I don’t even want to begin to tell you how false of a statement that is. Unless there is some bug I don’t see how this is true at all. It removes any type of condition, and I find many types even the 5+ stacks of torment or confusion or poison that still linger when I have used Cleansing Ire. And even if it does remove small conditions. Say you have Burn, Vulnerability, Poison and Bleeding on you. Weapon swap cures the Bleeding and then you can use Cleansing Ire to cure the other three conditions. Where as without weapon swap condi removal you would likely still have the burning on you, which for many classes can tick 600+ which is alot of damage.
while Burst mastery provide you a even better offensive pressure, utility and defensive support by giving more burst skill up time and more condition removal which just like what Brawlers Recovery does.
It provides you better offensive pressure and perhaps better utility (and by better offensive pressure/utility, maybe 2 extra burst skill per minute). However it doesn’t offer you better condition removal than Brawler’s Recovery. Assuming in a 60 second period, you get off 6 burst skills w/o mastery and 8 w/ mastery. Burst Mastery on average will cure 2 extra conditions, and this is assuming you aren’t missing any burst skills either. Brawler’s Recovery clears conditions guaranteed 12 times over a 60 second period.
And personally i wouldn’t really talk about anything WvW in a balance topic. Should i put PvP only in this thread, really. there’s something called PvP only changes, not to mention brawler recovery is not good in PvP, useless in PvE, not so great in WvW either.
Lol. Then specify PvP only changes in your thread instead of coming up with these blanket statements. There are so many things fundamentally wrong with your statement. WvW is absolutely a relevant game mode when it comes to balance. So basically you want to personally balance everything around fighting for and capturing nodes and balance around such a limiting game mode. Just because Brawler’s Recovery isn’t meta doesn’t mean it is a weak trait. According to that logic technically everything that isn’t the meta in PvP is weak and needs huge buffs. Great, let’s completely balance everything around the fact that every serious PvP build uses Longbow and ignore everything else. Guarantee you, if other non-Longbow builds were to be more viable that Brawler’s Recovery would be used more often.
There you said it youself, Burst mastery is a great trait, brawlers recovery simple one condition removal won’t make it compete with burst mastery’s condition removal, adrenaline regain, damage boost and everything. that’s this thread is about.
Burst Mastery being a great trait doesn’t mean Brawler’s Recovery isn’t and isn’t a decent option. It doesn’t seem like you can stray from that way of thinking. On average Burst Mastery won’t give you a whole lot of extra condition removal. At all. the 7% damage boost on burst skills, at least for a Longbow build is very negligable. You are telling me a 1000 damage combustive shot increased to 1070 damage is a gamechanger? And that pretty much is everything. A less than noticeable damage boost on a burst skill, and extra adrenaline.
you basically said the same thing i just said.
GS/LB gain perma fury by constant application of Arcing slice,
you don’t need to just copy what i said…There, you said it yourself, burst mastery is a superior trait and that’s the point of this thread.
Did you not read or understand what I had said? GS/LB has near/or permafury regardless of whether you have Burst Mastery or not. That is what I said. I said burst mastery is a superior trait for CERTAIN builds. Why do you keep misrepresenting what I am saying?
And on another note (for some reason the forums wont let me edit posts): You mentioned how sometimes weapon swaps won’t clear conditions. The same argument can be made for Cleansing Ire. Or Cleansing Ire would clear less conditions then it potentially could due to the limited amount of conditions on you. And Burst skills in many instances are not used for condition clears, but for the utility and offense they provide, so they aren’t always an efficient method of condition clearing. Weapon swapping is used generally regardless of the situation, because of the large amount of benefits you gain from it (extra sigil procs, extra adrenaline, renewed cooldowns on weaponset).