Guild Wars 2

I have talked about this before, as 30% extra burst damage at 30 points in discipline was a lot. But is the fix for this going to remain at 3% for 30 points, or is this being monitored. Currently 3% is not noticeable. Even 3% of 10k damage is only 300 more damage.

I am just looking for AN response that it is acknowledged, not necessarily a number you are considering but just hey we realize this.
My suggestion would have been maybe cut it in half to 15% at 30 points. Seeing as we can already get the minor trait in strength that affects the burst damage anyway.

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
It was 1% per point in the beta.

And the tears over Eviscerate started floods.

I have said before that I’d rather see it removed than silly 3%. The right answer is probably revamping it to do something different for warriors when they get around to it. Perhaps stun or condition duration reduction or something.

Even if it did buff damage, only two of them are meaningfully affected by it – Eviscerate and Kill Shot.

Direct damage increase does not work on conditions, so that rules out Flurry and Combustive Shot. The remainder are generally for utility and don’t do any damage worth buffing anyways.

Should reduce the cooldown of burst instead with quick burst being replaced. That would affect them all. Individually buffing each burst per point of discipline is tricky; 30% more damage for the condition burst would be okay, but would anyone really care about stunning for 2.6 seconds instead of 2?

I am a fan of reworking the trait. But here I just would like to know if they seem to be thinking about it.

I think a recharge reduction could be in order. Or an increase in adrenaline gain rate.

To be even crazier a damage reduction. It is called discipline and I would think something worth your while for being patient. Damage reduction would fit well as some builds already depend on 20 discipline.

We have so many traits buffing damage in random places, I would rather see some other buff. (strength 10 points, discipline 10 points, arms 25 points, countless weapon specific crit damage and burst buffs).

Adrenaline should simply refill easily like initiative. JonPeters doesn’t see this but Adrenaline compared to Death Shroud or Initiative isn’t aggressive enough. It should never deplete when inactive AND it should fill up 3 times easier than normal while attacking regardless if you have 30 points in arms or discipline.

NOW if that happens, Discipline can have cool down reduction on F1 skills much like the other classes have on their skills just so it can keep up with excess adrenaline.

The way addrenaline is generated is fine. There are actually builds that make use of some extra addrenaline generation mechanics, too. (Yes, for rifle and axe mainly but also compensating for the otherwise poor addrenaline generation of hammer.)

Not sure what the design goal of addrenaline draining away is. Perhaps just to make it feel more like “addrenaline”? Intent doesn’t seem to be resetting it for every fight which would feel pretty bad and cause people to rush a lot.

I would like to see a Healing when useing a Burstskill with its strengh depending on Adrenalinlevel.

This would be a counter to adrenal health and would encourage the dump of your adrenalin more. Also it would add a bit of selfhealing which the Warrior lacks.

Traits could either increase the amount healed or if the heal was a HoT increase the duration. to up to 8 seconds.

Adren is just a poorly designed resource/skill system in general. None of the adren skills scream “holy crap this is awesome, i glad i saved up 3 bars worth of adren for this”. Well unless your running a glass cannon rifle build in wvw and praying every 5th kill shot attempt actually lands or something.

Most builds in PvE benefit greatly from not even using adren at all for better sustained damage. More adren skills are viable in sPvP but their use isn’t for damage persay, but for their additional effects most of the time.

@Ksielvin
Hey suit yourself, if you want the way Adrenaline is generated to stay that way, we might as well have the +30% burst damage back.

No seriously, you don’t get what I’m trying to accomplish with this? My idea is so that Long Bow and Hammer becomes favorable too, not just Axe and Rifle. And no, don’t give me that BS where Axe and Rifle would be OP if they made getting adrenaline easier. If anything, spamming F1 skills is too punishable for Axe and Rifle.

Here’s another issue, ADRENALINE CONSUMPTION. WHY? Why should ALL of your adrenaline be consumed if the bars aren’t full? If you have 1 and a half bar of adrenaline, it should only consume 1 bar and NOT THE LEFT OVERS.

Uhh did this get patched down from 1% to 0.1% ? Or is this planned? Didn’t see anything in the patchnotes…

^
It was 1% per point in the beta.

Since the Discipline tree is all about adrenaline generation, I’d suggest just turning it into 1% cooldown reduction on burst skills per point. Sure, overall most builds benefit a lot more from not spending your adrenaline (a design flam, imo but whatever) but this would actually increase the viability of builds using mace mh (more stuns!), sword mh (used at 1 adrenaline does same damage as used at 3 adrenaline and the damage actually isn’t all that bad) or bow.
I tried a build that used sword/wh and bow with shouts and adrenaline restore on shouts and weapon swap and it actually isn’t as bad as it might sound.

The problem with the 1% damage per point in beta was that it could be used for (too) extreme burst.

Our class mechanic just feels like an “in development” idea. We’re supposed to build up adrenaline for a “burst”, yet most don’t even make a lasting impact. If you get hit by a full 100b, that leaves a lasting impact on your opponent. It gets them to panic a little after their hp gets chewed down. The player knows they have to regain control of the fight.

Currently, most just feel like a normal 6th weapon ability. They should be deadly finishers(or openers). I think the warrior could use a class mechanic that other players will need to watch out for.

1) Thieves: Steal can be pretty dangerous if traited, not to mention their weapons are tied to their mechanic(Initiative). They have some VERY useful weapon abilities. Also, lets not forget about stealth.

2) Mesmers: Clones/Phantasms. You can’t just ignore them. It’s sometimes best to try and damage them while still targeting the real one. Even then they can explode and apply conditions on you.

3) Necro: 2+ life bars? Yes, please. This can be a real pain when fighting a good necro.

4) Elementalist: Attunements can’t be countered, but paying attention to them helps you get ready for possible attacks/abilities. Provide nice buffs and AoE effects when traited.

5) Engineer: Depending on the engineer setup, their mechanic can also make an impact. I really hate it when they can self rez themselves. Engie can be very annoying to try to counter/control.

6) Guardian: The passives/actives are nice, and only get better with traits. They keep the player alive longer or push out some nice condition damage. Either way they really aid the player very effectively.

7) Ranger: Their pets can be annoying in small scale battles. However, they are our brothers in broken arms. Warrior/Ranger players both understand the pain of being at the bottom.

8) Warriors: I seriously don’t see ANY of our bursts as a threat, when I face a fellow warrior. Players complain about kill shot but I don’t see why. We are yelling at you to dodge. We just laugh at you when you don’t listen.

^The above is a problem. We have a class mechanic that makes almost no impression on the battlefield, when compared to 6/8 other classes. Whatever they do about the small 3% increase. I hope they fix the entire mechanic as well.

TL;DR- Bursts(especially for melee) should be hard hitting finishers/openers with a cd increase to balance it. Our class mechanic does not make a big enough impact on the battlefield. They are too spammable and weak.

Beefcake.9032:

Uhh did this get patched down from 1% to 0.1% ? Or is this planned? Didn’t see anything in the patchnotes…

This was gutted down after around Beta Weekend #2. People in sPvP were getting 1-shotted, which was the problem. The chosen combo was 30 pts in Discipline, wielding an Axe for Eviscerate, and using the Sigil who makes you auto-crit after a weapon switch. Warriors would switch to the Axe and hit F1 to just murder the glass cannon builds in a single hit. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

ArenaNet responded by:

1) Nerfing the damage of Eviscerate. They may have gone too far, but it was a mostly fair change.

2) Nerfing the +1.0% Burst Damage of the Discipline line down to +0.1% Burst Damage. This was considered to be an over reaction in the Beta forums and it’s still considered to be far too extreme of a nerf in the current Live version of the game.

3) The Sigil… Actually the Sigil wasn’t changed at all. At the time, many people brought up their opinion that the Sigil and the raw damage of Eviscerate were the true problems. By reducing the damage of Eviscerate, nerfing or removing the Sigil would have finished fixing the problem. However since this Sigil chance would have also affected other classes, ArenaNet just chose to nerf down the Warrior’s Discipline line instead.

Wiser with Age.3714:

Beefcake.9032:

Uhh did this get patched down from 1% to 0.1% ? Or is this planned? Didn’t see anything in the patchnotes…

This was gutted down after around Beta Weekend #2. People in sPvP were getting 1-shotted, which was the problem. The chosen combo was 30 pts in Discipline, wielding an Axe for Eviscerate, and using the Sigil who makes you auto-crit after a weapon switch. Warriors would switch to the Axe and hit F1 to just murder the glass cannon builds in a single hit. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

ArenaNet responded by:

1) Nerfing the damage of Eviscerate. They may have gone too far, but it was a mostly fair change.

2) Nerfing the +1.0% Burst Damage of the Discipline line down to +0.1% Burst Damage. This was considered to be an over reaction in the Beta forums and it’s still considered to be far too extreme of a nerf in the current Live version of the game.

3) The Sigil… Actually the Sigil wasn’t changed at all. At the time, many people brought up their opinion that the Sigil and the raw damage of Eviscerate were the true problems. By reducing the damage of Eviscerate, nerfing or removing the Sigil would have finished fixing the problem. However since this Sigil chance would have also affected other classes, ArenaNet just chose to nerf down the Warrior’s Discipline line instead.

This is partially correct. In Beta, there was a sigil that made you do 30% more damage with your next attack, sigil of doom, which was reworked to only give poison post beta. That combined with the 30% discipline was the issue. They nerfed the sigil to poison and discipline to sub par values.

Adrenaline functions in a similar manner to gw1. That is why most likely why it runs out when out of combat and builds 1to1 with strikes. War adren skills did not have cooldowns though back then. Not sure why they deviated from the adren model so much but that is a different thread.

Discipline has much room to grow as a tree. The obvious change most people seem to say make it a recharge reducer like other classes.
I want to use this thread as a food for thought thread and as an attractor of Arena Net attention.

Who knows, war love for this could be in the dec 14th patch.

Schwahrheit.4203:

@Ksielvin

Here’s another issue, ADRENALINE CONSUMPTION. WHY? Why should ALL of your adrenaline be consumed if the bars aren’t full? If you have 1 and a half bar of adrenaline, it should only consume 1 bar and NOT THE LEFT OVERS.

^ This I have wondered for months. I have found myself many times slaying the chieftain will eviscerate, but I realized that I had ~26-29 strikes of adren, just short of full 3 bars, to get a weaker evis. And on top of that, you lose the strikes… I counted the strikes. 2-blade trail, 2-3 whirlwind, 1 bulls, 9 from 100lbs, 1 from rush end, 2 auto attacks, 5 weapon swap, 2 from vulnerable axe, 1 shield bash => 25 adren. useless lol

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I want to use this thread as a food for thought thread and as an attractor of Arena Net attention.

Who knows, war love for this could be in the dec 14th patch.

In that case let me chime in and say I would like them to simply leave the warrior alone. Speccing for crit is not the be-all-end-all nor should it be, and I don’t want to see them change anything that impacts other build strategies (besides fixing the weapon swapping to work as stated). I consider this nothing but whining as crit works just fine as it is without promoting any particular build.

It used to be +1% per point back before beta weekend 3.

It got nerfed because that with crit damage, sigil of intelligence (old) sigil of doom (which was +30% damage on next attack after swap) could lead to easy 13k eviscerates at will with no drawback.

I like to believe it was just a bandaid fix that they need to go back on and fix again now that the combo has been nerfed entirely (sigil of doom functionally change, can longer stack 2 on swap sigils). But I don’t believe budding the damage on it is the key as only 4 burst skill really benefit from it, GS, Axe, Rifle, and Speargun are the only real burst skills focused on raw damage, other burst skills are condition damage based or control oriented.

I feel +adrenaline gain would probably be the easiest and most solid change.

My 2 cents.

Edit: Didn’t actually bother to read the thread before I posted. Seems others have already explained it. Oh well.

RollingBob.8502:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I want to use this thread as a food for thought thread and as an attractor of Arena Net attention.

Who knows, war love for this could be in the dec 14th patch.

In that case let me chime in and say I would like them to simply leave the warrior alone. Speccing for crit is not the be-all-end-all nor should it be, and I don’t want to see them change anything that impacts other build strategies (besides fixing the weapon swapping to work as stated). I consider this nothing but whining as crit works just fine as it is without promoting any particular build.

If you consider this thread whining, then you simply have not played enough war for tourneys. 0.1% per point is abysmal for a trait line. There is no where else in the pvp game where such a fractional amount per point is used.

but how about setting disciplin to 0,5% or maybe 0,33 pet trait what would result in 15% (or 10%).
15%(10%) aint that much because other weapontraits offer similar 10 to 20% but would definitly be more than 3 percent.

I’d like to see a toughness-ignore instead of + damage on burst skills. Warrior get dominated pretty hard by bunker-speccs and this would be a great way to deal with those >_>

Honestly about 80% of our traits are about increasing damage. I would love to see a little more utility or survival. There are plenty of ideas here about the trait line here so I guess the discussion is pretty much complete.

AN I suppose you can close the thread.

Teabaker.9524:

I’d like to see a toughness-ignore instead of + damage on burst skills. Warrior get dominated pretty hard by bunker-speccs and this would be a great way to deal with those >_>

then make a bunker style warrior? you have to give to get in this game. either you are a glass cannon or you are a tank. you cant have your cake and eat it to.

Slik.5792:

Teabaker.9524:

I’d like to see a toughness-ignore instead of + damage on burst skills. Warrior get dominated pretty hard by bunker-speccs and this would be a great way to deal with those >_>

then make a bunker style warrior? you have to give to get in this game. either you are a glass cannon or you are a tank. you cant have your cake and eat it to.

Bunker warriors are kinda kitten compared to guardians and elementalists. If give it -condition duration, PvP-players have to fully skill that tree, so that wouldn’t be a good way to solve that